Episode 4: Surfing Lessons in a Warming World

Summary

The New Yorker Radio Hour: Episode 4 – Surfing Lessons in a Warming World

Airdate: November 13, 2015
Host: David Remnick
Featured Guests: Bill Finnegan, Elizabeth Kolbert, Nick Thompson, Roger Pasquier, Sue & Hector Bideau

Episode Overview

This episode masterfully blends three signature New Yorker Radio Hour elements: profile reporting, on-the-ground storytelling, and conversation on current affairs. The main theme explores finding meaning and joy—whether it be in surfing, coin collecting, or the hard choices of unconventional family life—in a warming, increasingly unstable world.

• Surfing: Editor David Remnick joins writer Bill Finnegan for a surfing lesson and a deep discussion about obsession, meaning, risk, and aging.
• Climate: Elizabeth Kolbert offers a “state of the climate” report ahead of the Paris climate talks.
• Family: Larissa MacFarquhar profiles the Bideau family, who adopted 22 children, exploring their motivations, struggles, and the real outcomes of extreme altruism.
• Quirky Interlude: Nick Thompson accompanies Roger Pasquier, a man obsessed with coin collecting.

Below is a breakdown of the episode's key conversations and moments, organized by segment.

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A Walk with Roger Pasquier: The Art of Coin Collecting

[00:09–02:00, 21:17–22:40, 33:46–35:32]

Key Points

• Roger Pasquier—a scientist, birder, and urban street-comber—has developed a hobby (almost a science) of picking up lost coins around New York.
• He describes the technique—using peripheral vision, focusing on gutters ("the best place to find coins").
• Pasquier has picked up $36.52 this year (so far).
• He shares tips and offers wry encouragement for would-be city coin hunters.

Memorable Quotes

• Roger Pasquier: “Finding anything of value on the street is irresistible to me to pick up.” [00:12]
• Roger Pasquier: “The gutter...despite its unattractive name, is the best place to find coins. Because look at this sidewalk, how it rolls down...coins naturally seem to land there.” [01:13]
• Nick Thompson: “Roger is walking into, it looks like the parking lane next to the bicycle lane and picking up 35 cents, which I did not see, and I was looking.” [21:37]
• Roger Pasquier: “For me, the coin is the luck.” [33:50]

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Surfing Lessons with Bill Finnegan: Obsession, Joy, and Risk

[02:00–20:09]

Key Points

• Surfing as Obsession: David Remnick joins reporter and longtime surfer Bill Finnegan (author of Barbarian Days) in Rockaway, Queens, for a hands-on surf lesson. They discuss what makes surfing so compulsive for its devotees.
• Learning Curve: Surfing is not an easy sport—years to get “halfway decent,” high physical risk, and a unique relationship to time and mastery.
• Metaphysics of Surfing: Surfing for Finnegan is a metaphor for both intense immersion in nature and the pursuit of a "useless" joy.
• Risk: Finnegan recounts his injuries, brushes with serious peril, and the dangers of ego overriding judgment. Still, he is drawn back, feeling never done.
• Aging & Mastery: How aging surfers “become kooks again,” and the humility of finding limits with age.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Bill Finnegan: “The North Pole of irresponsibility is surfing. You have to be ready if you’re going to surf to, like, ditch all engagements and flee your desk.” [09:24]
• David Remnick: “My usual experience of the ocean in New York City is when I would go with my grandmother...and she would just yell at me and say, watch out for the syringes.” [11:16]
• Bill Finnegan: “It’s the most useless thing you could possibly do. ...You’d rather do it alone, usually. Although there’s a performance aspect.” [16:56]
• On aging:
  Bill Finnegan: “As a surfer, you can read waves just as well....And what do you know, you’re not as quick or as strong as you used to be.” [18:55] David Remnick: “Although, for the record, you’re by far the best surfer out here, no matter what the age. I’m just gonna make that call.” [19:23]
• On masculinity and surfing: David Remnick: “And it has to do with masculinity.”
  Bill Finnegan: “Not necessarily. Some women surf beautifully, but...it’s a continual proving ground.” [17:16–17:25]

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Reflecting on Global Warming: Paris Climate Talks Preview

[22:40–33:26]

Key Points

• Guest: Elizabeth Kolbert, Pulitzer Prize-winning author and longtime New Yorker climate reporter.
• Mood: Remnick highlights Kolbert’s realism—often mistaken for pessimism—around climate change.
• Paris Climate Talks: Hopes for a meaningful agreement, skepticism rooted in previous failures (Kyoto, Copenhagen).
• China & U.S. Roles: Both are key as top emitters. China’s political system offers flexibility to make swift changes, yet trust remains an issue.
• Obama’s Legacy: The U.S. is bringing more to the table (Clean Power Plan), but political and diplomatic constraints mean no binding treaty will emerge.
• Finance as a sticking point: Developing nations demand $100 billion climate finance from rich countries—far from being realized.

Memorable Quotes

• Elizabeth Kolbert: “A reasonable person could look at both the geophysics and the economics and the politics and despair. That is, I think, a very reasonable response.” [32:09]
• David Remnick: “But we don’t have to be religious to know that despair is the one unforgivable sin.” [32:26]
• Elizabeth Kolbert: “The hope is that we sort of commit to commit to peaking emissions...” [25:06]

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The Bideau Family: Radical Love, Real Consequences

[35:32–54:13]

Key Points

• Profiled by Larissa MacFarquhar: Sue and Hector Bideau, inspired by stories of mega-families, adopted 22 children—many with disabilities, trauma, or from sibling groups no one else would take.
• Motivations: Compassion, religious faith, a desire to help those with the least chance, and a sense of a calling.
• Realities: Chaos, exhaustion, severe emotional and practical hardship. Their children faced challenges—early pregnancies, deaths, prison, and trauma.
• Persisting Love & Commitment: Despite outcomes, their commitment did not waver. They see themselves as breaking cycles, even if only over generations.
• Criticism & Doubt: Some call them saints; others, egotists or naive; both parents are candid about the hard, dark times and regrets.
• Intergenerational Impact: Hope that real stability and change will come in future generations.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Sue Bideau: “Our family turned out better than anything that I imagined from those ... books. The downs, the valleys, the trenches, have been worse than anything I imagined.” [51:04]
• Hector Bideau: “This is what we're good at, and this is what we're doing.” [46:26]
• Sue Bideau: “The commitment, it's going to be a few generations....I thought we were going to adopt them. Everything's going to be wonderful.....But the commitment, it's going to be a few generations.” [51:55]
• Sue Ann (adopted daughter): About realizing she had a family: “I didn't really understand what adoption was until ... you go to court and you're allowed to change your name and be who you want to be and start a new life...” [41:08]
• Hector Bideau: “My thinking has evolved over time, but especially when we first started having to deal with pregnancies. I was like, if you're gonna have kids, you're gonna have to take responsibility.” [48:20]
• Sue Bideau: “If I see someone that's put their whole life goal is to do something really risky and crazy like ... climbing Mount Everest ... If that's that person's passion, then who am I to question them?” [53:46]

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Episode Highlights & Takeaways

• Surfing isn't just a pastime—it’s an existential pursuit, a proving ground, a form of worship—and also a lens on aging and purpose.
• Climate action is framed as both urgent and frustratingly incremental, hostage to political realities and laced with hope—however faint.
• Family: Radical acts of compassion, like the Bideaus’, invite both admiration and sober reckoning with the limits of what love and structure can achieve.
• Everyday Joys: Even simple obsessions like coin collecting can carry meaning, intent, and satisfaction.

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Bonus: Quick & Quirky Conclusion

Back on the streets, Nick Thompson and Roger Pasquier finish their coin hunt ("For me, the coin is the luck." [33:50]), underscoring the episode's undercurrent: meaning and value can be found in the smallest, often overlooked things—even in an anxious, warming world.

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Timestamps Reference

• 00:09 Coin collecting with Roger Pasquier
• 02:00 Surfing segment begins (Remnick & Finnegan in Rockaway)
• 09:24 Finnegan on the joy and irresponsibility of surfing
• 13:40 Finnegan’s surfing injuries
• 16:56 Surfing as “useless,” the existential aspect
• 22:40 Elizabeth Kolbert joins for climate talk
• 32:09 The “despair” quote
• 35:32 The Bideau family profile begins
• 41:08 Sue Ann on when adoption became real
• 51:04 Sue and Hector reflect on expectations vs. reality
• 53:46 Sue Bideau on extreme passions
• 54:40 Final quirky coin sounds segment with Nick & Roger

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This summary captures the narrative arc, the rich voices, memorable moments, and topical urgency of a standout episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour.

Transcript

[Nick Thompson]

Roger, how did you get started collecting coins?

[Roger Pasquier]

It happened simply because I saw so many on the street and thought I ought to keep track of this like a good scientist. Finding anything of value on the street is irresistible to me to pick up.

[Nick Thompson]

Now, this, to me, from the distance, looked like a penny. Did you immediately identify it as Whatever.

[Roger Pasquier]

It is, it looks to me like I don't want to get that close to it, but it look looks to me like a piece of bubble gum that somebody has put down on the ground. It doesn't have the imprint of a coin.

[Nick Thompson]

I'm going to identify what it is. It's a button with a nail in it.

[Narrator]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

[Nick Thompson]

So one of the things about walking with Roger Pasquier is that his eyes are not always looking at you or looking ahead. What are you actually doing, Roger?

[Roger Pasquier]

It's very rude, of course, not to look at the person you're speaking with, but if you want to focus on coins as we are now, you have to be using your peripheral vision as well. And that means while I'm paying some attention to Nick or whoever my companion may be, I'm also looking in the gutter. And maybe we should trade places so I can be closer to the gutter and talk out of the left side of my mouth while I have a better view. Because the gutter, despite its unattractive name, is the best place to find coins. Because look at this sidewalk, how it rolls down. It's not even. Coins naturally seem to land there. And you find more there than on any other part of the street.

[Nick Thompson]

How much money have you found this year on the streets of New York?

[Roger Pasquier]

Right now, My total is $36.52. And we'll see if this turns into a profitable wall.

[David Remnick]

And that's Nick Thomps on the street with Roger Pasquier, an ornithologist and world expert in the art of picking up change on the street. We'll hear how they made out later on the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Now, you've probably had this happen where somebody asks you to do something that sounds like fun and you agree maybe too quickly. Then about five seconds later, you're saying, what on earth have I gotten myself into? Well, I did that not too long ago, and that's why I found myself leaving home around dawn on a Sunday, headed to the Rockaways in Queens.

[Roger Pasquier]

Look at this.

[Bill Finnegan]

I mean, nobody can surf, but look at the waves.

[David Remnick]

Wow. I'm sitting out on the beach with the great Bill Finnegan.

[Bill Finnegan]

See that?

[David Remnick]

Let's try that again. That was quite a wipeout. I'm sitting out at the Atlantic.

[Bill Finnegan]

Look at that stance. Wow.

[David Remnick]

I'm David Remnick, and I'm here with my friend and colleague Bill Finnegan, who's written an astonishing book called Barbarian Days. And we're sitting out here in the Rockaways at the Atlantic, watching a lot of people fall in the water as they try to surf.

[Bill Finnegan]

There are probably more than 100 people in the water, and the waves are kind of nice. They're small and quick. And one of the odd things about this crowd is that there are no clumps of people where the waves are concentrating because nobody out can read the water at all. Nobody's reading the waves. And you actually read the waves first before you ride them. I read these as pretty good, with a couple of good spots to take off. Water looks so nice. I want to go dive in.

[David Remnick]

So what we're going to do is we're going to get in the water and we're going to attempt to stand on a board.

[Bill Finnegan]

You're going to catch some waves. You might be well advised to stay on your belly the first couple.

[David Remnick]

That's what I tend to do when I surf.

[Bill Finnegan]

It's low tide, so it's going to be a little crunchy, a little quick. Let's go west.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, let's go where it's maximally dangerous. And you began this adventure in life as a really young kid in Hawaii as a way to do what? As a way to get out of the house.

[Bill Finnegan]

I grew up playing around in the ocean in Southern California. At a certain point, the age of 10, I really admired surfers and how beautiful what they did seemed and how cool this is in the early mid-60s.

[David Remnick]

How long did it take you? How many times did it take you before you could get up on a board and surf a wave?

[Bill Finnegan]

I think the first wave I caught, I stood up and rode for a long time.

[David Remnick]

But I was the first time you went surfing?

[Bill Finnegan]

Yeah, but I was a small kid on a big board. I spent a lot of time in the water body surfing.

[David Remnick]

You're trying to make me feel better.

[Bill Finnegan]

I spent a lot of time in the water body surfing. I could read waves. I've been reading them for years. And that's the crucial thing.

[David Remnick]

And why did it become an obsession? It wasn't just, you know, everybody when they're kids, they playground basketball, or they collect model airplanes or they do what they do. Surfing for you is. Has never been that. How did that start and why?

[Bill Finnegan]

Well, surfing is quite different from other sports. And it's not just me. It's for lots and lots of people. This happens. It takes a tremendous amount of time to get even halfway decent. I mean, you need to put in basically years during which you have nothing else to do. In other words, you need to be a kid. And once you learn, the pleasure of it is so intense.

[David Remnick]

What is it? What's the pleasure of it?

[Bill Finnegan]

Well, riding a wave well feels like such an achievement because you know how far you've had to come to do it. There's that. Some waves I caught in Fiji in the 70s off an uninhabited island. A friend and I camped there. We'd kind of heard about a wave and then we'd seen this wave with binoculars. And it was absolutely incredible. Wave long, long, long, 300 yard long left over very shallow coral reef, just going on and on and on and you not getting obliterated, not falling off.

[David Remnick]

And in real time, how long does the experience last?

[Bill Finnegan]

It's probably 10 or 15 seconds, but it feels like forever. I mean, you're in that moment where you are braced for impact. You're about to dive off, and you don't dive off, and you don't dive off.

[David Remnick]

What are you seeing? What's in front of your eyes?

[Bill Finnegan]

Well, you're looking down the line. What's the wave going to do? What's the wave going to do? And at a certain point, when you realize that the wave is just going to hold you that deep in the barrel and just fire you like a cannon down this reef, you are free to actually look back deeper into the tube. You're free to look up at the wave that's breaking over your head. You're inside and you're looking at daylight and sky ahead, and that's where you're headed.

[David Remnick]

Is it roaring or quiet?

[Bill Finnegan]

It's noisy. I mean, at a certain point in the barrel, people say it gets quiet. And I think I've felt that, but I don't know why it should be true, because the waves breaking full force all around you. All right, first, let's put your leash on. Put it back down.

[David Remnick]

You have to put a leash on.

[Bill Finnegan]

Yeah.

[David Remnick]

This is the third most terrifying thing I've ever done in my life.

[Bill Finnegan]

So the two things I told you, it's actually important to remember now.

[David Remnick]

Board straight. Straight.

[Bill Finnegan]

Board straight. A second thing I didn't get to finish telling you, never get your board between you and the wave. Good.

[David Remnick]

You told Me that?

[Bill Finnegan]

Yes. It's to the side or behind you. To the side or behind you. Never between you and the wave.

[David Remnick]

Excellent tip. Third thing to the board should always.

[Bill Finnegan]

Be to your side, side or behind you. Anywhere but except in front of you.

[David Remnick]

Because it will hit you quickly. Okay, great.

[Bill Finnegan]

And the third thing. And this is for after you fall off. Yeah. This could happen.

[David Remnick]

Which could possibly happen.

[Bill Finnegan]

Get a good breath, if you can, before you fall off, fill your lungs. And when you fall in, it's not real deep, it's not a lot of water, but nonetheless, go as deep as you can go to the bottom, whatever, and then hold your breath and stay down there a little while.

[David Remnick]

Why?

[Bill Finnegan]

Because the board is bumping around. You don't want to get hit. And then when you come up, and this is the most important single thing, come up with your arms over your head in front of your face so you don't get hit by your boy.

[David Remnick]

And you think that I'm going to remember all this? Yes, in a moment.

[Bill Finnegan]

No, I mean, people never do until they get hit a couple times.

[David Remnick]

But I don't want to get hit anytime.

[Bill Finnegan]

So that's why I think you will remember.

[David Remnick]

Let's go.

[Bill Finnegan]

Okay. Let's walk this way a little bit because the current's going that way. We don't want to end up on those rocks.

[David Remnick]

Okay. Pretty little waves. You know, Bill, I read your book. I've read your book a couple of times, and I cannot help but thinking this guy has had more fun in about three weeks of life than I've had in a lifetime. There are different ways of living lives. You know that Milan Kundera book, Lightness and heaviness, the heaviness of responsibility. And there's the lightness of living outside, trying to live away from that. And you've done both. You know, as a reporter, you've been in the middle of the worst circumstances all around the world, and then you do this. How does one treat the other?

[Bill Finnegan]

It's a good description. I mean, I have this sort of bipolar life. And the North Pole of irresponsibility is surfing, you know, dropping everything. It's nature worship. And you have to be ready if you're going to surf to, like, ditch all engagements and flee your desk and make all kinds of bogus excuses to editors while you. While you chase the waves when they're there.

[David Remnick]

But you did it for years at a time.

[Bill Finnegan]

Yeah, I don't know if you've got the time and money. You just go. And I just went like dog whistle orders from on high. And I went to the South Seas, Australia, Southeast Asia, Africa, looking for waves.

[David Remnick]

And nothing was tugging you back. Parents, friends, money, whatever it is, Nothing was dragging you back to.

[Bill Finnegan]

Well, ambition was. I mean, I felt like, you know, everybody was getting on with life except me. I'm laying here with malaria and Sumatra. Why am I doing this? My parents got fed up with it after about two or maybe two and a half years. They just showed up in Cape Town where I was teaching high school. Just. They would. Enough was enough, you know. I mean, they'd had, like, a few phone calls from me in two and a half years. It's not. I didn't remember them, but I.

[David Remnick]

You never get bored of it?

[Bill Finnegan]

Bored with waves? Yeah. Not when the waves are good.

[David Remnick]

And so there's always the lure of the possibility of the waves.

[Bill Finnegan]

Right. And waves are usually not good. And you spend a huge amount of time chasing good, uncrowded waves.

[David Remnick]

All right, here we go. It's fairly cold. I would wear a parka if I could. I didn't exactly grow up in a beach family.

[Bill Finnegan]

Go ahead and lay down on it. I'll push you out. Good, good. Go ahead and lay down.

[David Remnick]

Get on it.

[Bill Finnegan]

Yep.

[David Remnick]

My usual experience of the ocean in New York City is when I would go with my grandmother after visiting my great grandmother to Coney island, and she would just yell at me and say, watch out for the syringes.

[Bill Finnegan]

You're okay. Don't paddle, don't paddle, don't paddle.

[David Remnick]

What is it in your personality that that makes surfing part of you?

[Bill Finnegan]

I have been surfing so long that it's probably.

[David Remnick]

It is.

[Bill Finnegan]

Your personality formed my personality to some extent. And anyway, all kinds of personalities surf, you know. Right.

[David Remnick]

I was gonna say, you're not Mr. Laid Back. I mean, it's not like some cartoon of a surfer. And as a writer and as a reporter, you couldn't be more ferocious and aggressive in your own way.

[Bill Finnegan]

I think I'm the same person surfing and reporting. I'm fairly intense in the water. I really want to surf. I take some chances. I've had lots and lots of arguments with the guys I surf with, no, we shouldn't paddle out here. I'm paddling out that kind of. Of stuff. So it's. It's sort of all of a piece.

[David Remnick]

So you're the guy. When I go out reporting in some place, you're the guy who says, no, we're going to the next checkpoint?

[Bill Finnegan]

Yeah, I fear so.

[David Remnick]

Okay, fair enough. Tell me about Danger. What's the catalog of Your injuries.

[Bill Finnegan]

Wow. I'm talking about danger. I'm watching people crash into each other out here. Who?

[David Remnick]

Yeah.

[Bill Finnegan]

Starting to get more crowded, what they're doing. Yes. And people not hanging onto their boards. So the main danger is starting to.

[David Remnick]

Look like the Belt Parkway on the ocean.

[Bill Finnegan]

Yes, it is. So the main danger is other people's surfboards. I'd say with me, I mean, yeah, I have lots of little injuries of concussions, broken nose, you know, brokenness and that.

[David Remnick]

But what do you mean brokenness and that?

[Bill Finnegan]

I don't know. My ankles are a mess. It seems like everything that's wrong with me is from surfing, but most of it's long term. It's. My eyes are messed up from the glare. I've got these pterygia in both eyes. My ears are really messed up from cold water. I've had three operations. My skin is a mess. I'm always having this basal cell carcinoma dug out, and I hope it remains only like that.

[David Remnick]

Are you oblivious to the danger or. It just comes with the territory. And if you don't want to get hurt, don't surf.

[Bill Finnegan]

If you know what you're doing in the water, it's usually not at all dangerous. You, you know, the first time you go out, you don't really know what to do. You get hit by your board, usually first time. That's sort of how you learn where not to put your surfboard. But if you've been doing it for a million years, all those dangers go away in a crowd. There's other people's boards flying around. And in serious waves, there's the bottom and the power of the waves themselves. And when it's dangerous, though, you know that. If you have a lot of experience.

[David Remnick]

Have you ever been terrified?

[Bill Finnegan]

Yes. Where in Hawaii? In Madeira.

[David Remnick]

What's the terrifying bit?

[Bill Finnegan]

For me, the worst moments have been in really big waves. Last year in Hawaii, I did something stupid. I was on too small a board in big waves at a place called Makaha in Hawaii. And I got frustrated because I was on a small board, hard to catch waves. So I moved in. I moved in. I sat too far in. I sat in a really dangerous. And I paid the price. I got held down for a very long time by a couple of big waves. And I've actually taken a solemn vow not to do anything that stupid again.

[David Remnick]

Do you want your daughter to surf?

[Bill Finnegan]

No.

[David Remnick]

She's how old now?

[Bill Finnegan]

13.

[David Remnick]

And you've never kind of done with her what you just did with me.

[Bill Finnegan]

I've pushed her into Little waves.

[David Remnick]

Is she suitably terrified?

[Bill Finnegan]

Not bad. I took her out to her mother's distress before she could swim. I took her out in Costa Rica and rode some waves. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[David Remnick]

You took her out surfing before she could swim?

[Bill Finnegan]

It was totally safe. She had one of those little things around her, little floaty things and she had a death grip on her leg. She was not gonna fall off. The waves were small. We were on a big board. But it was taken ill by my wife and others.

[David Remnick]

Can't imagine why.

[Bill Finnegan]

Yeah. But then she and I in Hawaii one time were out on a giant tandem board a riding together. We've done that a few times, you know, ridden together, just on our bellies, me and back. And I made a mistake and we had a really big board, like an 11 foot board.

[David Remnick]

She got smacked and had her dad.

[Bill Finnegan]

Land on her from a height and then hold her under for a little while while his legs were tied up by a leash. And it was generally pretty rough and traumatic. And she hasn't surfed since, I don't think. Get ready to slide back and little bit. You did a great job of staying under after you ate it.

[David Remnick]

I'm really good at failure.

[Bill Finnegan]

I mean, you were in no danger because your war was that side of you. But in principle you got to just.

[David Remnick]

You're going to let me know when there's a wave coming, right?

[Bill Finnegan]

Yeah. Right. I'm trying to be more careful. Always make sure I get back to shore. That's the main thing.

[David Remnick]

Yeah.

[Bill Finnegan]

Oh, Jesus Christ.

[David Remnick]

Now you have to stand up on the thing. I think I'm hooked. I'm ready to go to Tahiti River. This book is a memoir and it uses surfing not as a vehicle, as a way of living. And when you look back on all the time you've spent in the water and thinking about surfing, it seems to me like it's like physical chess in a way. It's meaningful and meaningless at the same time.

[Bill Finnegan]

Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's the most useless thing you could possibly do. It's just a monomaniacal pastime and really doesn't resemble sport. There's nobody keeping score. You'd rather do it alone, usually. Although there's a performance aspect.

[David Remnick]

You want to be seen.

[Bill Finnegan]

Yes. You want to be seen. You want to do it well. You want to do it stylishly. That's important.

[David Remnick]

And it has to do with masculinity.

[Bill Finnegan]

Not necessarily. Some women surf beautifully, but it's.

[David Remnick]

I meant your own masculinity.

[Bill Finnegan]

Well, it's certainly especially in Bigger waves, more challenging waves. It's a continual proving ground.

[David Remnick]

Yes, the New Yorker is known for its fact checking department. How do you fact check a memoir when you're depending on a combination of memoir and spotty documents in your own life?

[Bill Finnegan]

I don't know. We got a hold of. New Yorker published an excerpt from the first part of the book, which was set in the mid-60s. So there was that work to be done. And the checker got a hold of, like, my best friend from those days, a Kiki named Roddy Kalakakui, who's now a lifeguard at a resort on another Island. In his 60s with grandkids. And there he was just. And he was just the same. He was saying, you know, you gotta get over here. I've got just the right board for you. I've got this place, Hanalei Bay on Kauai, just wired. And I'm going, I'm going next winter. I mean, it was really.

[David Remnick]

I have no doubt. What can you do less? Well, now that you're not only a man of parts, but a man of 60, 62. Yeah, who's counting? This is a really tough thing to do. Get up on a board and ride a wave and stay out there for a long period of time. What, what becomes trickier, harder, more painful?

[Bill Finnegan]

Well, one, just the general process of what surfers call becoming a kook again. A kook as a beginner is psychologically quite painful. And that's what goes on when you get old.

[David Remnick]

You feel that you're a beginner again in some way.

[Bill Finnegan]

Not that bad. But you're headed in that direction. You peaked a while ago. As a surfer, you can read waves just as well. Ah, I see what. Where I need to be. I see what I need to do. And what do you know? You're not as quick or as strong as you used to be. Where you really notice it, or I really notice is in the pop up, which you and I haven't got to yet.

[David Remnick]

Yeah, well, that'll be tomorrow.

[Bill Finnegan]

Yeah, yeah. Springing to your feet on a small board, a short board, which is what I still ride. The timing's got to be perfect, and you got to be strong.

[David Remnick]

Although for the record, I think it's easy to say that you're by far the best surfer out here, no matter what the age. I'm gonna. I'm gonna just make that call.

[Bill Finnegan]

Okay, I'll accept that accolade. As low as the bar is out.

[David Remnick]

Here, it's a pretty low bar. When do you stop?

[Bill Finnegan]

I have no plans to stop. I do know guys who surf into their 80s, obviously, on bigger boards and gentler waves, and they try to find some wave to grow old, some way to grow old gracefully.

[David Remnick]

To watch Bill do it, even on a small wave out in Far Rockaway. And nobody else is getting up on their boards for more than a half a second. And bill, at age 60 something just rides the thing in with ease, all the way in. That's pretty amazing. There he goes. Oh, my God. William Finnegan's book is called Barbarian Days. He told me he's headed to Hawaii in the next few months. In a minute, I'm going to talk with Elizabeth Kolbert about the Paris climate talks, and we'll see if there's any hope for the world at all. So stick around. I'm David Remnick, and this is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[Nick Thompson]

My name is Nick Thompson, and this is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm walking here with Roger Pasquier, who has an obsession with finding coins in the street. He's very good at it and he takes it quite seriously.

[David Remnick]

Oh, look at that, Roger.

[Nick Thompson]

I did not see those. So what does Roger.

[Roger Pasquier]

Just Roger. First his eye was attracted to the quarter and then saw that there was a dime next to it. And this happens pretty often, that there's more than one coin where you find them. So I'm going to pick them up.

[Nick Thompson]

Roger is walking into, it looks like the parking lane next to the bicycle lane and picking up 35 cents, which I did not see, and I was looking. Number one, you just picked up some valuable coins. 35 cents, that's very good for a day. Number two, you didn't get killed because they were in the parking lot lane and there was a bicycle lane, so there's no risk. And number three, the cars were at a red light anyway.

[Roger Pasquier]

Right? So all that was very good. And the interesting thing to me was that this quarter has lost most of its shine, but still there was enough to make it distinguishable from a bottle cap. And the delight, once you got closer, was to find this very shiny dime next to it. And so when you find them, you do have to be looked at. Remember to look carefully around because there could well be others that your eye isn't spotting immediately.

[David Remnick]

Roger Pasquier and Nick Thompson on the streets of Manhattan. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, and I'm David Remnick. Now I'm with Elizabeth Colbert, who's been covering climate change for the New Yorker for years, and she's the author of the Pulitzer Prize winning Book the Sixth Extinction, about the effects of climate change on Earth. No one knows more about this subject in my estimation. But I have to tell you, and I've known Betsy for a long time, she's never exactly been a cockeyed optimist about this or any other subject. So now we're coming to the climate negotiations in Paris. They begin November 30th. Everybody's talking about it in the most dramatic terms, as if there's going to be a fantastic breakthrough. Betsy, what are your expectations?

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

Well, I think that there probably will be an agreement that comes out of Paris. That seems to be the direction we're heading in. As you say, there's a lot of optimism, and I think that there's been so many years. This meeting is being called COP21. Okay, so this is the 21st of these meetings, and there have been one sort of failure after another. So I think if we don't get an agreement, you know, the stakes are so high that people are really, really trying to ensure that we get it.

[David Remnick]

But why is this night different from all other nights? We've seen agreements in Kyoto, in Copenhagen all ballyhooed on the front pages of newspapers, and everybody goes home feeling a little uplifted. President Obama is extremely proud of himself that he broke into a meeting with the Chinese and managed to get some concessions from the Chinese. Meanwhile, the problem gets worse and worse and worse. The weather ramifications are what they are, the political ramifications, and the disbelief in climate change persists.

[Bill Finnegan]

Why?

[David Remnick]

Do you have any belief, or do you have any belief that Paris is, as we endlessly say now, a game changer of any kind?

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

Well, that is really. That is a $64 trillion question. And I think that there are two things going on here, one of which is, as you say, the physical evidence is just becoming overwhelming, and the world is reaching a critical point of either committing to doing something or throwing up its hands and really letting the worst happen. And I think there is a sense among world leaders, including Barack Obama, that something must be done. So in that sense, there is momentum. Now, that being said, I don't think anyone expects that this is going to be, for example, the peak of emissions, right? Are we going to, in 2015, see the highest emissions in history, and then emissions are going to start to decline, which is really what has to happen. That's the only thing that the atmosphere cares about, right, is how much CO2 we're putting up there. But the hope is that we sort of commit to commit to peaking emissions so for example, China, as part of its commitment to going into Paris, has said it will peak its emissions by 2030. Now, that's still 15 years from now, but that at least is a step in the right direction.

[David Remnick]

So China seems to be a dilemma here. On the one hand, China seems to have more political momentum than it's ever had to help solve this problem in concert with the rest of the industrialized nations of the world. On the other hand, we pick up the paper the other day and we see that they have been lying like crazy about how much coal smoke has been going up into the atmosphere above China. How would you describe the Chinese political situation when it comes to global warming? Their impulse to do something, their capacity to do something, and what they will do.

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

You know, China is the world's leading emitter by far now. It surpassed the US Far earlier than expected and has gone on to, you know, just grow its. Increase its emissions radically over the last decade or so with no real end in sight. Although they have, you know, said they will peak in 2030. And there are some signs actually that they are leveling out. But that being said, the Chinese system would ratchet it up really quickly. There's also a sense, well, they could ratchet down really quickly. That's the way they do things. You know, they don't have a Congress sitting there blocking every move when they decide to do something and the order goes out to do it. So that's the hope. How's that? And in terms of, you know, have they been underestimating their emissions? I do want to say that, you know, they have been. They have been, but that correction came from them, you know, so they are trying to be more transparent, and transparency is a very big part of going into Paris. You know, can we trust each other?

[David Remnick]

So the United States and China both have domestic targets now, too, right? So what changed?

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

Well, I think what changed was, you know, the Chinese are feeling effects, the US Is feeling effects, and we are the two biggest emitters. So you can, you know, deal with this problem if China and the US Want to deal with it, and you can't deal with it if they don't want to deal with it. And the US has really dragged its feet, you know, for many, many years. And the agreement that you alluded to at the start, you know, what's called the Copenhagen Accord, which was brokered by Barack Obama, that was considered in many way a failure. And so now the US Is trying to step up to the plate. President Obama just rejected, you know, the Keystone Pipeline. That was Very much a move, I think, designed to send a signal to the world that we are, we are serious.

[David Remnick]

It took him years, though. In other words, Barack Obama is a left of center Democrat who came to office committed to doing something about climate change. We are now in year seven of his presidency, and for the first time, when you talk to people in the State Department, when you talk to people in the White House, they feel that climate change is a legacy issue.

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

But only now, I think he was a person who was late to come to this as one of the central issues of our time. And it's only now, as you say, in his second term, that he's really started to do the things that he needed to do. In other words, the US Is going to come into Paris with something to show finally, because Barack Obama finally decided to bypass Congress. And I do give him a lot of credit for that, because otherwise we would be going to Paris with nothing and there would be no prospect of an agreement, really, if the US Is not taking any concrete action.

[David Remnick]

So what Barack Obama, what concrete action is the United States taking?

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

The concrete action that the US Is taking is what are called the clean Power plant rules, and they are a set of regulations designed to limit emissions from power plants. And they will have the practical effect of closing down a lot of the country's least efficient coal electricity generating plants. But there is sort of a sense that we are making progress, which didn't seem to be the case for many years.

[David Remnick]

In short order, when we get to Paris, we're going to see a lot of beautiful words from a lot of nations in the setting of the City of Light. But when they get down to it and they're across a table, what is going to be the stickiest one or two issues in front of them that haven't been prepared by diplomatic and scientific teams ahead of time?

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

Right. Well, I think that a big sticking point is finance. A lot of developing countries say we need money both to adapt to the inevitable climate change that's happening and also to take a different energy path. Right. A cleaner, perhaps more expensive energy path. So the developed world did commit, in theory, $100 billion in climate finance, $100 billion a year. But we have seen pledges that do not total up to $100 billion yet not nearly. The U.S. for example, has only committed $3 billion.

[David Remnick]

So let's say there's an agreement, as we probably expect, coming out of Paris, and this agreement is brought home to the United States. Or what's the political battle that then ensues between the president and Congress.

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

Well, this is a key point. That agreement will not be brought home. It's what's called, once again, in wonderful un speak, bindingness. What kind of a treaty are we going to get? We can't have a treaty that Barack Obama has to come home and get Senate ratification for because he will not get it. It's sort of a treaty, but it's not a treaty that needs to be brought before Congress. And that is.

[David Remnick]

But as you talk, Betsy, imagine the listener hearing this, a treaty that's not a treaty. And they're all saying, you know what? I have a headache and I have to leave the room, but maybe I'll turn the lights off to be a good citizen. No, but I mean this. And isn't this part of the problem that.

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

Oh, absolutely.

[David Remnick]

In addition to the fact that we all have to change the way we live, the way we move around the globe, et cetera, et cetera, the political way this is discussed, and the intricacies of having to do it on an international level with countries having radically different interests make it so hard to get from point A to B when we have to get to Z.

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

Absolutely, absolutely. And that is the situation that we're in. And it's, you know, definitely. A reasonable person could look at both the geophysics and the economics and the politics and despair. That is, I think, a very reasonable response. But that being said.

[David Remnick]

But we don't have to be religious to know that despair is the one unforgivable sin.

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

Exactly. Exactly.

[David Remnick]

So when the politicians come home from Paris and you are assessing the meeting in Paris, what would you consider success and what would you consider a failure?

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

If we come out of Paris with a sort of agreement that emissions must peak soon and start coming down, that will be considered, you know, success now doesn't mean emissions will peak soon and start to come down. I can't promise you that, but I think a sense that we have momentum and that therefore, that we're heading in a certain direction. I know this sounds horribly vague and not enough to hang the future of the planet on, but I'm going to continue on anyway. That money will follow. The idea is that this will become a virtuous cycle. Money and investment will follow the direction and the signals given in Paris. That is the best you can hope for.

[David Remnick]

Betsy, thank you.

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

Okay, thanks.

[David Remnick]

That's New Yorker staff writer Elizabeth Kolbert. The Paris Climate Talk start on November 30th. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[Nick Thompson]

Lots of people who believe that finding a coin gives them good luck do you believe that?

[Roger Pasquier]

Perhaps it does for them. For me, the coin is the luck.

[Nick Thompson]

What is your advice for young coin hunters?

[Roger Pasquier]

Always hold your mother's hand when you're crossing the street.

[Nick Thompson]

What is your advice for someone who's 25 years old, who's just moved to the city, loves the idea of hunting for co. What should they do?

[Roger Pasquier]

I know millennials are said to have all kinds of special problems these days. I hope the satisfaction of finding coins can counter some of the frustrations that are said to be intrinsic to your age group.

[Nick Thompson]

That's not very helpful, Roger.

[Roger Pasquier]

To them or to you?

[Nick Thompson]

Roger, is global warming good or bad for coin hunting?

[Roger Pasquier]

I think it's bad. First, it's going to put some of Manhattan underwater. But more importantly, or more regularly, it's going to reduce the amount of time during the year that people are wearing gloves and are having more trouble holding onto their coins. Good for you, Nick.

[Nick Thompson]

I've just found a penny underneath a little flower box here with some boxwoods.

[Bill Finnegan]

Lovely.

[Roger Pasquier]

Inside a cafe.

[Nick Thompson]

2,000 penny. So I now have one cent and you have 35, 34 to go. So, Roger, why did you miss that? Is it because I'm a better coin hunter now?

[Roger Pasquier]

I think because I was trying to answer your difficult.

[David Remnick]

I'm David Remnick. Welcome back to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I've got three kids, mostly grown now, and I think any of you with three kids, or two, or maybe even just one, will tell you that sometimes raising children just feels nuts. So when Larissa McFarker told me about the Badot family of Philadelphia, well, it kind of blew my mind. Here's Larissa.

[Narrator]

When Sue Hogue was 12, she read a book, the Family Nobody Wanted, about a couple in the 1940s who adopted a multiracial posse of 12 children despite having very little room or money. It seemed wonderful to sue to be part of such a family, and she begged her parents to adopt. What a thrill it would be, she thought, to take children who've been abandoned to friendless institutions and bring them home and play with them and love them and make them happy. Her parents said no, but sue kept thinking about that book. And by the time she was 15, she had met her future husband, Hector Bideau. And by the time she was 18, she and Hector had planned their family. They would have two kids and adopt two. By the time they were four years out of college and four years married, they had had the two kids and adopted the two kids and thought their family was complete. But there were more than two children. In the world who needed parents. There were so many children who, because they were too old or too violent or too traumatized or unable to walk or too close to death or the wrong color or had too many brothers and sisters, were unlikely ever to be adopted. And when Hector and Sue thought about what those children's lives would be like without parents, lives that were already unimaginably difficult, they could not bear it.

[David Remnick]

Oh, boy.

[Hector Bideau]

Well, we have 22 children. I know for sure. I believe we have 36 grandchildren.

[Sue Bideau]

Yes.

[Hector Bideau]

And I believe it's 10 great grandchildren. I haven't checked a computer printout this morning. I think that's correct. Right.

[Sue Ann]

Okay.

[Narrator]

I know what you're thinking. 22 children. It's an enormous number. But Hector came from a family of 16 biological kids. So even as the family grew and grew to 22, it still felt like a normal family to him. In 1985, when sue was 24, they had five children under five, plus three teenage foster kids living with them. But then one day, sue was leaving through an adoption newsletter from New Mexico and saw a picture of four young kids, Two brothers and two sisters.

[Sue Bideau]

Sue Ann is on the bottom left. Florie's on the bottom right.

[Narrator]

And something about those four kids pulled at her.

[Sue Bideau]

Yeah, it was just a sense of connection that you feel in your gut and in your heart. Our faith is important, so we do pray. But you feel this sense of like, this is my child, and this is my child not living with me yet. I have to go get this child. This child isn't supposed to be here.

[Narrator]

When the kids were growing up, they all lived in a big old stone house in the outskirts of Philadelphia that used to be a convent. In the wintertime, it gets very drafty in there because the furnace broke shortly after they moved, and they didn't have enough money to fix it.

[Sue Bideau]

Needs to come home.

[Narrator]

Even though they knew that having more and more kids would take away some of their time and attention and resources, and they did not have a lot of money, if it was going to dramatically improve the lives of the kids who were not yet in their family, then it was worth it. Sue and Hector flew out to New Mexico to meet the four new kids.

[Sue Bideau]

I remember walking into the foster family home being so nervous. Even though we had adopted before and everything, These were the oldest kids at that point we had adopted, so. So they had more of a actual. Legally, they had more of a say in whether they were going to come with us or not. But also they had more ability to verbalize and say whether they wanted us to be their parents or not.

[Narrator]

These new kids, the ones in New Mexico, had had a pretty rough childhood. They'd been bouncing from foster home to group home for a while. Sometimes they were together, and sometimes they were separated. Before they met the Biddoes, the kids had made lists of what they wanted from a permanent family. Sue Ann was the oldest girl. Her number one wish was that she'd never again be separated from her sister and her brothers. Abel, the oldest, wrote that he wanted someone he could call dad.

[Sue Bideau]

He wanted to call someone dad, but more importantly, he wanted someone who would call him son. Introduce him as, this is my son.

[Hector Bideau]

Yeah.

[Narrator]

Did you ask them to call you mom and dad?

[Elizabeth Kolbert]

No.

[Sue Bideau]

One thing we never did with any of our kids was tell them what to call us. We asked them what they wanted to be called and if they, once they were adopted, what name they would want.

[Hector Bideau]

Yeah, Abel. I knew he wanted to be Rocky. Abel Rocky Bideau, because after Rocky, the.

[Sue Bideau]

Movie character, most of them, nearly all of them, did end up calling us.

[Hector Bideau]

Mom and dad, but some quicker than others.

[Sue Bideau]

It's actually better when they don't call you mom and dad too quickly. You have some other respectful way that you talk to each other.

[Narrator]

But do you long for that moment when they spontaneously call you mom or dad?

[Bill Finnegan]

Of course.

[Narrator]

Of course she did. Sue was just a normal mom in many ways. There was always the risk that things would go badly, but this risk excited her. Would the new child get along with the others? How soon would this new child feel that this was her home, not just another foster home that she'd get kicked out of in a few months? Sue Ann and Flori had been in so many foster homes that at first. At first, they didn't know the difference.

[Sue Ann]

I thought it was just another foster home. I just thought it was further away than New Mexico. I was just like, okay, as long as we're together.

[Narrator]

How did you come to feel that this was your family, that this was something different from a group home or a foster home.

[Sue Ann]

I guess it took a while, you know, just being in a routine and, you know, just knowing that you're not gonna go anywhere else. You know, I didn't really understand what adoption was until when you go to court and you're allowed to change your name and be who you want to be and start a new life and decide who you really are, and this is what your life is going to be, and this is your family, and you don't actually move anywhere else, and you stay in the same school, and you Start to have like a real life. That's when it really sinks in. Because your life is like that beforehand. Your life is chaos all the time.

[Narrator]

Bringing in new children was obviously more work for sue and Hector, but everything was work. They never wanted an easy life. They were always exhausted. They were always broke, and they almost never had any time alone. But they knew that they were needed. They could give love and food and shelter to children who hadn't had those things. And they were doing God's work. It was a lot of work. Sue even wrote a Bideau family handbook in which she wrote down the family's values, rules and rituals, including number six. We will celebrate special times in each person's life, like birthdays and anniversaries, and try our best to make each person feel special and loved. Number nine. Each week, mom will take one kid on a Friday night date and dad will take one kid on a Saturday morning breakfast. So we can have one on one time and develop our relationships with each other. But no matter how organized they were, there was always a lot to do. What time did you get up forever?

[Hector Bideau]

I got up around 4:35.

[Narrator]

4:30?

[David Remnick]

Why?

[Hector Bideau]

Yeah, he needed that time. I needed my time before the kids got up. But to get that many kids, bathe them, get their clothes on and all that kind of stuff. Change diapers, make lunches. Yeah, and usually hit the stairs. Cause I didn't do anything that wasn't in her contract.

[Narrator]

What did you do?

[Sue Bideau]

Slept in until 7.

[Narrator]

From almost the beginning of their marriage, sue and Hector had a deal. She would do the paperwork, he would change the diapers. He didn't like having a boss, so she decided she would work outside the home and make the money. He would stay at home with the kids. At first, sue was working as an adoption caseworker in Philadelphia. And she would be home at night and make the dinners. And then she took a fellowship in Washington D.C. which meant she was away five days a week living in a hotel room, and Hector was at home making the lunches, changing the diapers, doing whatever needed to be done. Even when they had 16, 17, 18 kids, he would take them on road trips. On summer vacations.

[Child of Sue and Hector Bideau]

My dad would make the van like a big, huge bed where we all just had our spots. So we kids, sometimes we traveled through the night and we'd have to sleep.

[Sue Ann]

You know, sleep and read some songs.

[Child of Sue and Hector Bideau]

Imagine being in a van full of like, not only like some teenagers, but babies peeing and stuff like that. It's his worst.

[Narrator]

And he took all the kids that Were living at home at the time. Some of them were babies. Some of them were in wheelchairs.

[Child of Sue and Hector Bideau]

It was fun.

[Narrator]

By the time they were grown, they'd been through every state in America except for Hawaii and Alaska, which was a big point of pride for all the kids.

[Child of Sue and Hector Bideau]

I mean, my dad was good for the most part, but he did forget a couple people at, like, six flags and stuff like that.

[Sue Ann]

They got left at the bathroom while we were walking to the van and would get to the van and do a head count, and we'd be like, oh, shoot, they went to the bathroom, and then he'd have to go back and get them. They'd be, like, standing there next to security.

[Narrator]

Everywhere they went, across the country or at home, people would stare at them and ask about their family.

[Child of Sue and Hector Bideau]

I used to be embarrassed growing up telling people I was, like, adopted and from a big family because I didn't want people knowing. We got a lot of attention.

[Sue Ann]

Not everybody was like, you have black people and Chinese people and white kids. You have all these different races, too. And they're like, that's not your brother. And then you get a lot of questions. Sometimes you don't want to share your whole life with every person you meet.

[Narrator]

What kind of questions?

[Sue Ann]

They'd be like, well, what do you mean you're adopted? Why are you adopted? Where's your parents? Yeah, well, what's wrong with you? Why don't your parents love you?

[Child of Sue and Hector Bideau]

And that's what my brother would say. He'd be like, our mom just threw us in the trash.

[Narrator]

Sue wanted her children to know that she was different. When one older girl joined the family, she asked sue, how do I know I can trust you? Sue said, we have made a commitment to you. That commitment is just as serious to us as our marriage vows. We are making a promise not only to you, but also to God. And it doesn't matter what you do. You are our children. We are your parents. We are a family. Of course, she didn't know then how much that would be tested. They made a point of adopting children that no one else was going to adopt. They adopted six brothers and sisters from Texas teenagers. No one was going to adopt six teenagers other than sue and Hector. They adopted three boys with terrible physical disabilities that meant they needed constant care. A lot of people thought they were saints to do what they'd done, but others thought they were publicity seekers or had some kind of psychological disorder. People thought they were presumptuous to imagine that they could be good parents to so many kids. Hector heard it all but he developed a pretty thick skin.

[Hector Bideau]

This is what we're good at, and this is what we're doing.

[Sue Bideau]

They can't imagine I couldn't do this. So how can you, you know. And so then they start to speculate. Well, then what would be someone's motives for doing that? And they. They either go to an extreme. Well, you must be in it for some bad motive.

[Hector Bideau]

You're in it for the money. There's a lot of. We could have been a lot richer.

[Sue Bideau]

There's a lot of other ways.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Hector Bideau]

Easier way to make a buck.

[Narrator]

Their goal was to break the cycle. Their kids. Parents had had children as teenagers, and they weren't able to take care of them. And the children ended up in foster care. Hector and sue wanted things to be different. They wanted their kids to finish high school and go to college and then have children once they had settled down and could raise them in a stable home. But it didn't happen that way. Did your parents talk to you about birth control?

[Sue Ann]

I think they thought they did. Maybe I wasn't listening.

[Child of Sue and Hector Bideau]

I don't.

[Sue Ann]

That was. I actually had a baby at 16, so there was a lot of that threw a monkey wrench into the family dynamics.

[Narrator]

Sue Ann knew she had to tell her parents about her pregnancy, but it was very difficult.

[Sue Ann]

My mom was pretty upset. She didn't say too much.

[Sue Bideau]

You know, what did I do wrong? I'm a failure. I'm a bad mom. I never should have adopted these kids if I couldn't make their life better for them.

[Sue Ann]

I think my parents thought that I had been a part of the family long enough that they had made an impact that it wouldn't happen.

[Bill Finnegan]

Yeah.

[Hector Bideau]

The situation is still vivid in my mind of 21 years later. Yeah. Just. It was pretty. It was shocking, and it was the last thing we wanted or expected. It was kind of crushing.

[Narrator]

Hector and sue told Sue Ann that she could either drop out of school to take care of her baby or put it up for adoption. It wasn't that they didn't love babies around the house. Of course they did. But they wanted their children to take good care of their kids, to be real parents to them.

[Hector Bideau]

I guess I had a motto that I wasn't gonna raise my kids kids. And I kind of stuck to it. You know, my thinking has evolved over time, but especially when we first started having to deal with pregnancies. I was like, if you're gonna have kids, you're gonna have to take responsibility.

[Sue Ann]

I didn't have a job. I didn't have any Money. I didn't have an education. I didn't have anything to give her.

[Narrator]

Sue Ann named her daughter Milagro. She decided to give her up for adoption, but to family friends, so she could continue to see her.

[Sue Ann]

Well, I knew I wanted her to have a good life, and I knew that I couldn't give that to her. So I had to, you know, give her everything, give her me, and give her a family.

[Narrator]

After what happened with Sue Ann, sue and Hector were not taking any more chances.

[Child of Sue and Hector Bideau]

I was on the Norplant when I was, like, 13. My parents just wanted to play it safe.

[Narrator]

Sue Ann's younger sister, flori, was only 13, but they put her on Norplant, and she stayed on it for five years. But then when she was 18, she decided to go off it, and she got pregnant and had a baby.

[Child of Sue and Hector Bideau]

Yeah, I thought about giving her up for adoption as well, because I was, like, young, and it was a lot of decisions. But then I, you know, also thought about Sue Ann's situation with Milagro, and I just couldn't do it.

[Narrator]

Sue Ann got pregnant again and quit college. Florie got pregnant again, and then there were more pregnancies and more after that. And then some really terrible things happened. Sue and Hector had adopted three boys, knowing that they had terminal illnesses and would die young. But it was still a shock when they did die. Two other sons ended up in prison. Fisher for beating up his girlfriend, and Abel for sexually molesting one of his younger sisters. When that happened, Hector told me he thought about leaving. He wasn't really going to leave, but that's how he felt. Sue became profoundly depressed. She wrote to a friend, I try to pray, but I feel like I am praying into a black hole. Reading the Bible does nothing more for me than reading the newspaper. I still believe, but I feel nothing. No connection to God, no reality of the Holy Spirit in my life. This must be what hell is like. When you think about reading the family nobody wanted when you were a kid, how does the family you created differ from that? How is it like or not like the family you pictured when you were 12?

[Sue Bideau]

So for me, our family turned out better than anything that I imagined from those, either movies or books. The downs, the valleys, the trenches have been worse than anything I imagined from any of those. You know, one of the worst things I remember from that family nobody wanted book was when they reached a point where they didn't have any money to buy groceries, and they didn't know when the next time they would. And that was like the Worst thing I remember from that book, and certainly we've been through way worse things than that. The hard times were harder and yet the overall feeling of who we are as a family and the depth and the security I have that the relationships are really no matter what, and they are forever. The joy that we do experience when things do go well or when we're just enjoying each other, when we're just having a good time is way better than anything I imagine.

[Hector Bideau]

I can't imagine any other life than the one we've had together. Sue and I had the. We were going to change the world when we. I think we did to a certain extent. But I think the big changes I'm hoping are going to come even a couple more couple generations down the road where we're trying to break the cycle of poverty or break the cycle of early pregnancies or I thought we were going to adopt them. Everything's going to be wonderful. They're going to go to college, but the commitment, it's going to be a few generations. So I think that was a big. A big adjustment for me.

[Narrator]

Sue Ann and Florie are now both happily married. Most of the kids still live within a few blocks of sue and Hector's house, the one they grew up in. They're in and out of the house all the time, babysitting each other's kids. There are always people at the Bedoux.

[Sue Ann]

House, even like ex boyfriends. They still come around to like talk to my parents and hang out with the family.

[Narrator]

Sue still travels a great deal. She speaks about adoption and foster care all over the country. Hector now works overnight shift in a homeless shelter. This summer they discovered they even had enough time to take over a month off and travel to Kenya to help teenage moms and their babies. In a lot of ways, sue and Hector are like any other parents. They love being parents. They love their kids. They've gotten a lot out of it. They did not choose an easy life, but they loved it. Being parents was what they were great at, and that's what they wanted to do all the time, to the exclusion of everything else. Some people look at the bad things that happen in their family and think, this experiment didn't work. They should have adopted fewer kids. Not everyone can do what sue and Hector did, and maybe not everyone should.

[Sue Bideau]

You know, if I see someone that's put their whole life goal is to do something really risky and crazy like clients climbing Mount Everest and you could die while you're doing it. And other people might have to risk their lives to save you if something happens like, I don't get that. But if that's that person's passion, then who am I to question them to? Just because I couldn't do it doesn't mean they can't do it.

[David Remnick]

Sue Badot, matriarch of the badot family, Larissa McFarch wrote about them in her book Strangers Drowning. I'm David Remnick. And that's it for the New Yorker Radio Hour today. Let me know what you thought of the show. Reach us on Twitter New Yorkerradio or leave us a [e-mail] we'll be back next week with more stories.

[Nick Thompson]

Let's try it again, guys.

[Roger Pasquier]

I will go for a nickel on this.

[Nick Thompson]

Actually a quarter. Let's try another one.

[Roger Pasquier]

That has a completely unmetallic sound, certainly not as high as a dime and without the richness of that quarter. So for that, I would say a penny.

[David Remnick]

Yes, correct.