Podcast Summary

Podcast: The New Yorker Radio Hour
Episode: Leonard Cohen’s Last Days and Donald Trump’s First Term (Episode 56)
Date: November 11, 2016
Host: David Remnick
Guests: George Packer, Amy Davidson (New Yorker staff writers); Leonard Cohen (songwriter, in archival and recent interview)

Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour is split into two deeply reflective conversations, both examining seismic moments of social and personal change. The first half tackles the shock and aftermath of Donald Trump’s presidential win, with analysis from journalists George Packer and Amy Davidson. The second half celebrates Leonard Cohen, the legendary songwriter who had just recently passed away, through excerpts of an intimate final interview with David Remnick.

Segment 1: “Donald Trump’s First Term” – Post-Election Analysis

(00:28 - 25:37)

Main Theme

The panel discusses the profound societal divisions and political ramifications revealed by Donald Trump’s unexpected 2016 victory, dissecting both the motives of Trump voters and what the election signifies for American democracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Understanding Trump Voters

• Complex Motivations:
  • “I think there’s no single Trump voter. I think there’s lots of different motives…”
    — George Packer (01:46)
• Resentment and Revenge Voting:
  • Economic dislocation and resentment at elites, often perceived as condescending or out of touch.
  • The vote for Trump often signified “a middle finger vote, more than a vote for a program or … hopeful idea.” — George Packer (02:26)

2. The Appeal of “Corruption” and Authenticity

• Trump’s Strategy:
  • Trump tapped into popular outrage at “corruption,” but redefined it as establishment self-dealing, not technical or legal malfeasance.
  • “He stipulated it to them. He said, I did this. I bought off politicians…now I can lead you through it…”
    — Amy Davidson (03:55)
• New Definition of Corruption:
  • “[People thought] the leveraging of influence and position has become a definition of corruption for a lot of people in America…” — Amy Davidson (04:45)

3. Political Correctness as a Rallying Cry

• Political Incorrectness as Authenticity:
  • Many voters supported Trump’s rejection of “political correctness,” seeing it as permission to express grievances about class, identity, or social taboos.
  • “That’s the most important thing about Trump: that he’s willing to be politically incorrect.” — George Packer (06:05)
  • For some, it was about “a refusal to talk about class as the actual source of privilege…” — Amy Davidson (07:57)

4. The Two Americas & Information Silos

• Deep Divides:
  • “There’s a line in John Dos Passos USA trilogy…We are Two Nations…What disturbs me profoundly is… the mental world in which Americans live.” — George Packer (08:44)
  • The country is divided along education, geography, and “mental worlds,” leading to imperviousness to “counterargument or counterfact.” (09:29)

5. The Road Ahead: The Trump Presidency

• Unpredictable Leadership:
  • Concerns raised about whether Trump would adapt to presidential norms or continue radical, improvisational behavior.
  • Uncertainty over Congress’ (Republican) ability or willingness to restrain presidential power (11:15–12:44).
• Possible Quiet Leadership by Pence:
  • Noting that Trump reportedly delegated foreign and domestic policy to his vice president: “Your job will be foreign and domestic policy.” — David Remnick (13:02)

6. The Republican Party and Policy Implications

• Real-World Impact:
  • Skepticism that Trump’s actual policy proposals would benefit the white working class or the “Rust Belt” voters who elected him (14:34–15:38).
• Potential for Disillusionment:
  • “How long will it take before those working class Rust belt voters … become disenchanted?” — George Packer (15:38)

7. Media Responsibility and Press Freedom

• Double Standards and Press Integrity:
  • “All the press can do is maintain its integrity… If we have a sense we’re holding back on either side, that just… strengthens people like Donald Trump’s.”
    — Amy Davidson (20:17)
• Role of Journalism:
  • “We have to do what we got into this business to do, which is to hold power accountable.” — George Packer (20:51)

8. Advice to Listeners – What Now?

• Personal Response:

  • “To be good neighbors… recognize the fears next door and the isolation that a neighbor … might feel…” — Amy Davidson (22:02)
  • Urged continued civic participation and respect for political engagement.

• Institutional Response:

  • Pressure on Supreme Court appointments and use of constitutional mechanisms: “Push on all the fronts where we can in civil society… this is not the moment to give up on them.” — Amy Davidson (23:39)

• Local Organizing:

  • “Democrats… forget that in between this tremendous amount of boring and unglamorous organizing that needs to be done…” — George Packer (24:19)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “This was a revenge vote. It was a middle finger vote…” — George Packer (02:26)
• “He conveyed an aura of authenticity.” — George Packer (06:05)
• “We are Two Nations.” — George Packer (08:44)
• “Our job… is to hold power accountable.” — George Packer (20:51)
• “Democracy pervades our society. We have so many small tools for democratic participation, and it’s just a matter of making use of them.” — Amy Davidson (25:13)

Segment 2: “Leonard Cohen’s Last Days” – A Farewell Conversation

(25:37 – 54:26)

Main Theme

David Remnick shares recordings from an intimate final visit with Leonard Cohen, who reflects with humor and grace on mortality, Jewish spirituality, creativity, and the rituals that shaped his life and late work.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Facing Mortality with Humor and Clarity

• Physical Decline, Mental Clarity:
  • Cohen, suffering from cancer and back pain, is described as “in a bullion mood… for a man who knew where life was taking him” (27:30).
  • “Would you like a few slices of cheese and olives?” — Leonard Cohen (28:08), still the gracious host.
• Graciousness and Ritual:
  • Recounts the poignant story of his father’s funeral and his own childhood act of memorial. “I cut one of the wings of the bow tie off and I wrote something on it… and I buried it in the backyard.” — Leonard Cohen (29:21)

2. The Songwriting Craft: Relentless Revision & Spiritual Underpinnings

• Writing Process:
  • “If I write enough verses and keep discarding…something will emerge that represents [what I wanted]. …The reason my writing is so slow is that I have to finish the verse before I discard it.” (43:13)
  • Some songs had “as many as 60 or 70 … or 80 verses.” (44:00)
• Scriptural and Spiritual Roots:
  • Cohen acknowledges the deep imprint of Jewish thought, especially Kabbalah’s vision of repairing the world.
  • “Ring the bell that still can ring … there is a crack, a crack in everything, that’s how the light gets in.” — Leonard Cohen (song lyric, 42:45)
• Reluctance at Being a Spiritual Figure:
  • “I don’t like to be identified with Jewish thought in my mind, you know, I know I’m deeply conditioned by these.” (40:36)

3. The Performer’s Struggle and Reinvention

• Stage Fright and Insecurity:
  • “There was something about getting up on stage that he found almost false…he felt like a chained parrot…” — David Remnick (33:20)
• Transformation Through Adversity:
  • Stories of performing on acid, hearing the audience singing for him, hallucinating a “gigantic Jew” judging him—leading to greater humility and depth in his performances (34:00–36:41).
• Zen Monastery and Surviving Financial Ruin:
  • After his manager stole his savings, Cohen returned to performance at 70, showing in “funny, anime, light hearted” ways his spiritual resilience (45:35).

4. Facing the End: Reflection and Acceptance

• Mindfulness in Suffering:
  • “I have some training in, you could call it, mind control… this predicament is filled with many less distractions…enables me to work with a little more concentration.” — Leonard Cohen (48:50)
• Works as Legacy:
  • “Putting your house in order…one of the most comforting activities… The benefits of it are incalculable.” — Leonard Cohen (51:53)
• Evolving Sense of God’s Voice:
  • “It’s very compassionate… More than any time in my life, I don’t have that voice that says, you're up. That’s a tremendous blessing…” (50:28-51:34)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “I have tried in my way to be free.” — Leonard Cohen, “Bird on the Wire” (26:29)
• “Listen to the mind of God… don’t listen to me.” — Leonard Cohen (54:05)
• “I’m leaving the table, I’m out of the game.” — Leonard Cohen (54:22)
• On mortality: “Ready to die. I hope it isn’t uncomfortable… Spiritual things have fallen into place for which I am deeply grateful.” — Leonard Cohen (51:34)
• On creativity: “Putting your house in order is one of the most … comforting activities.” — Leonard Cohen (51:53)
• On the aging artist: “You start off irresistible, and then you become resistible. Then you become transparent. …And then… you become repulsive…After repulsive, you become acute. And that’s where I am.” — Leonard Cohen (46:19)

Important Timestamps

• 00:28 – First mention of post-election shock and Trump’s appeal
• 02:47 – The “revenge vote” motivation explained
• 06:05 – “Political correctness” and authenticity in the campaign
• 08:44 – “We are Two Nations” and media silos
• 14:34 – GOP establishment and the limits of Trump's economic promises
• 20:51 – The role of the press going forward
• 22:02 – Advice on citizenship, solidarity, and activism
• 27:30 – Transition to Leonard Cohen’s interview, setting the scene
• 29:21 – Childhood story: Leonard Cohen burying a note for his father
• 42:45 – “Ring the bell that still can ring…” (Anthem, signature lyric)
• 46:19 – Leonard Cohen’s comedic but poignant reflections on aging
• 51:53 – The importance of “putting your house in order”
• 54:22 – “I’m leaving the table, I’m out of the game…” (closing lines)

Tone & Language

• The first segment is reflective, analytical, and at times urgent or somber—a post-mortem on the political climate and the press’s responsibility.
• The second segment is meditative, deeply personal, suffused with wit, self-effacing humor, and existential acceptance.

Concluding Thoughts

This episode captures two American moments: a national reckoning and an individual’s graceful leave-taking. Both halves dwell on how to move forward: as a people divided and as a person at the end of creative life. It’s a riveting pairing of political and artistic legacies, offering both practical advice for democracy and spiritual advice for mortality.