Graham Platner Is Staying in the Race

Summary

Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Graham Platner Is Staying in the Race
Original Air Date: December 19, 2025
Host: David Remnick

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Overview

This episode features host David Remnick’s in-depth conversation with Graham Platner—a Marine and Army veteran, oyster farmer, and Democratic candidate challenging incumbent Senator Susan Collins in Maine. The discussion explores Platner's path to politics, his controversial online history, his outsider approach to the Democratic Party, his policies, critique of U.S. military intervention, and the lived experience shaping his populist-progressive views. The episode also briefly includes a segment with longtime New Yorker writer Calvin Tompkins reflecting on longevity and creativity at age 100.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Platner’s Unconventional Path to Senate Candidacy

• Recruitment Story ([00:10–03:55])

  • Platner recounts being "recruited" unexpectedly by union leaders in Maine while working as an oyster farmer. He was initially reluctant, saying:

    "We make $60,000 a year and the Senate is not for people. People like us." ([02:41])

  • He and his wife ultimately agreed under the reasoning that "it was the right thing to do."

• Background and Formative Experiences

  • Platner discusses his stint at an elite prep school, which led to him intentionally flunking out due to feeling out of place among wealthy students ([05:09–05:56]).
  • Talks about military service motivated by a deep, almost inevitable personal interest:

    "Since my earliest memories, I wanted to be a soldier. I grew up loving military history. ... It was just something that spoke to me." ([06:47])

  • His time in the military (Marines and National Guard) fostered cynicism about U.S. military interventions, shaping later policy views ([07:34–09:45]).

2. Addressing Past Controversial Comments

• Context and Accountability ([09:45–15:50])
  • Remnick addresses Platner's surfacing online comments (homophobic slurs, controversial sexual assault remarks, "bastards" for police, a tattoo resembling a Nazi symbol).
  • Platner's framing:

    "If someone over the course of their time on the Internet uses slurs or stupid language and then ceases to do so. Probably a sign of growth. Probably a sign of how many of us change over time." ([11:19])

  • He connects this to a generational issue, suggesting if all "elder Millennials" were scrutinized for every past comment, “we’ll never get around to the policy part.” ([11:06])
  • Platner emphasizes that growth and change should be possible in public life:

    “If we can’t give people the ability to grow as human beings, then we’re all just stuck.” ([14:01])

  • He says it’s “personally unenjoyable” to discuss, but:

    “It also allows me to publicly model something I think is really important, which is that a lot of us go through transitions in life. ... You should be able to be proud of the fact that you can turn into a different kind of person.” ([14:39])

3. The Democratic Party: Critique and Vision

• Platner’s Critique ([18:53–23:43])
  • Platner lays into both major parties’ corporate ties, but reserves special disappointment for Democrats:

    “There is an innate contradiction in trying to be a party that represents working people ... and also trying to represent the interests of those that exploit them.” ([20:26])

  • He argues the party lost its way in the Clinton era, doubling down in the Obama years on Wall Street priorities rather than labor ([21:29–22:29]).
  • Regarding West Virginia’s Manchin-style politics, Platner is skeptical: "I think you can win someone in West Virginia if you run on working class populism." ([23:14])
• Relations with Party Establishment
  • Sharply notes his lack of contact with Senate leadership:

    “Not a single phone call, not a single email from the national party organization.” ([24:10])

  • Contrasts this with Janet Mills, the centrist governor running against him, who was quickly embraced by the D.C. establishment ([24:18–24:37]).

4. Ground Game, Populism, and Grassroots Organizing in Maine

• Campaigning Approach ([25:01–26:35])
  • Emphasizes face-to-face organizing: "We've held 35 town halls ... 12,000 volunteers. ... This is about rebuilding organization in communities."
  • His message resonates with widespread voter discontent toward establishment politicians.

5. Policy Priorities

• Platner's Top Issues ([26:35–27:38])

  • Universal Healthcare / Medicare for All
  • Banning Congressional Stock Trading: "It's essentially legalized corruption."
  • Tax Reform: "We cannot continue to tax wages at a higher rate than we tax wealth."
  • Notes bipartisan opportunities for the latter two.

• On Campaign Finance ([27:38–28:12])

  • Refuses money from corporate PACs, fossil fuel companies, and dark money groups; accepts only from labor/PACs not tied to “the corporate dark money apparatus.”

6. Foreign Policy, Military Experience, and War Powers

• Critique of Current Military Actions ([28:12–30:13])

  • Cites Venezuela operations as a "rehash of Iraq ... but even dumber."
  • Says U.S. military power is abused for political gain, not strategic necessity.

• On Military Service ([30:13–32:34])

  • Describes his combat experience as a machine gunner in Ramadi, Iraq: "I saw more combat than most, less than some."
  • Skeptical of current Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth's posturing: "You definitely get the feeling this is someone who is trying to make up for something... didn’t stay in."

• Legislative Priorities for Veterans ([32:34–33:54])

  • Main policy: Reining in the president's war powers, returning congressional control as per the Constitution.

7. Populist Critique of the System and the Political Era

• What’s Broken ([35:02–39:16])

  • Platner sees a new era of power politics emerging in the U.S., akin to the Gilded Age—“an era of politics of power ... understanding how to organize people.”
  • Interprets Trumpism as having harnessed genuine working-class frustration, acknowledging: "He’s giving them all the wrong answers. ... But I do understand why people voted for him ... because they feel like this whole thing does not represent them." ([36:30–38:58])

• On Capitalism and Labels

  • Platner rejects the "democratic socialist" label, framing his views as seeking to curb “the worst version” of capitalism through taxation, regulation, and anti-monopoly enforcement ([39:16–40:15]).

8. Personal Experience with Economic Hardship

• On the System’s Failures ([40:15–45:23])
  • Platner credits the VA and his veteran status for affording him health care, which allowed him to build a life as a small business owner ([42:02–43:56]).
  • He contrasts that with the lack of options for most working people, noting the "immense amount of freedom" health care provided him.
  • Tells stories of friends whose rents consume 60% of their income, with nowhere to turn; ties this suffering to increasing wealth at the top:

    "I refuse to believe that I've watched people in my community watch their material conditions deteriorate at the exact same time that we watched Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk exist. I refuse to believe that these two things are not connected." ([45:10])

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Notable Quotes

• On Change and Accountability:

  "People grow all the time. ... It also gives me the opportunity to publicly show that you can believe things once and then ... believe other things. ... You should be able to be proud of the fact that you can turn into a different kind of person."
  —Graham Platner ([14:01–14:39])

• On the Democratic Party:

  "It is impossible to represent their interests while also trying to represent the interests of those that exploit them."
  —Graham Platner ([20:26])

• On Populism and Political Disaffection:

  "If you ask [Mainers], do you think you live in a political or economic system that benefits you? Nobody says yes."
  —Graham Platner ([36:15])

  "What Trump did is Trump came along and he told people that what they knew was true was true, which is that they are being robbed, that the system is not representing them. He's giving them all the wrong answers ... but I do understand why people voted for him."
  —Graham Platner ([36:56–37:52])

• On Wealth Disparity:

  "I'm watching my community suffer and become harder and harder to live in for working people while we watch the richest people in the history of people exist. Those two things are not disconnected."
  —Graham Platner ([45:18])

• On Senate Ambitions:

  "I would like to be a senator that accomplishes things. ... I think we are coming into a different era in American politics ... an era of politics of power ... understanding how to organize people." —Graham Platner ([34:43–35:46])

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Memorable Moments

• Platner explains his failed prep school experience:

  "I figured out very quickly that if I didn't go to class, then I got to go home. And that is exactly what happened." ([05:49])

• Stance on oyster consumption:

  "No, I eat them all the time. ... Cocktail sauce is heresy."
  —Graham Platner ([45:49–45:54])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Recruitment to Senate run: [00:10–03:55]
• Military history & worldview: [06:47–09:45]
• Handling past controversial comments: [09:45–15:50]
• Critique of Democratic Party: [19:50–23:43]
• Outsider status vs. establishment: [23:43–24:37]
• Policy priorities: [26:43–27:38]
• On war powers & foreign policy: [28:12–33:54]
• Systemic critique & Trumpism: [35:02–39:16]
• Personal economic experience: [40:15–45:23]

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Brief: Calvin Tompkins Segment ([47:48–52:45])

David Remnick and Calvin Tompkins (aging New Yorker writer) reflect on aging, artistic curiosity, and the importance of living life fully and creatively even at 100. Tompkins shares his approach to writing and art criticism, always remaining curious and open to the new.

"I don't know what I'm doing. I never have known what I'm doing. ... You just have to keep trying, keep trying, keep pushing out the words."
—Calvin Tompkins ([51:14])

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Conclusion

This episode captures the rise of a working-class, populist candidate navigating controversy, disillusionment with mainstream politics, and the promise of transformative change. Platner’s unpolished honesty, policy focus on working people, and scathing critique of the political status quo position him as both representative of a political inflection point and a test case for whether American politics is ready to embrace real change.

Transcript

[Meghna Chakrabarti]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

[David Remnick]

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Since Donald Trump's populist rhetoric first began to resonate with voters, particularly disaffected white voters, the Democratic Party has been looking for candidates who could talk more convincingly about economic insecurity and other related issues. There's been an emphasis on people who seem to be outside the party establishment, particularly working people and military veterans, too. Graham Platner checked a lot of those boxes. He had served in the Marines and in the army, and coming home to Maine, he took over a small oyster farming business. Platner was recruited to run for the Senate seat that's been held for a long time by Susan Collins. But early in his campaign, the picture got a little complicated. Comments that Platner had made over the years on Reddit and elsewhere began to surface. And you probably heard about this. He called police officers bastards and said victims of sexual assault should, quote, take some responsibility for themselves. He used homophobic slurs, and he made remarks about black people, rural whites, kind of everybody. And one of his tattoos was said to resemble a Nazi symbol, though he points out that he didn't quite realize that when he got it, Platner apologized, and he apologized repeatedly. He covered up the tattoo. But some progressive groups have said, maybe this guy is just not cut out for the job. Grand Platner's campaign will be, among other things, an indicator of how much the rules of politics have changed, and not only in the MAGA movement. I spoke with Graham Plattner last week. Graham, from what I know, you were recruited to run for senator. And what was happening, you were driving around in your car and some guy calls you up and say, because we want you to run for Senate. Tell me the story.

[Graham Platner]

No, not quite. No. My wife and I were down in Brooklyn, Maine, where we shuck oysters at the Brooklyn General Store. And we were driving home. It's about a little over an hour drive. So it was. It was like nine o' clock at night. And I got a phone call from an unknown number, and it's a gentleman asking or asking if it's me. And I said yes. And saying that they were at my mother's restaurant, they'd stopped in for dinner, and that they wanted to talk to me about a project to recruit a candidate in Maine to run for U.S. senate. And I've been engaged in a lot of community organizing, and through that I've made lots of friends around the state and the organizing world. So I assumed that they were just calling to ask me for names. And so I was like, ah, it's late at night, we can't. So if you want to come over tomorrow morning before I go out on the boat for coffee, that sounds good.

[David Remnick]

And what time do you go out on the boat?

[Graham Platner]

Well, I wanted to come over at 4:30, but my wife told me. My wife told me that was too early to invite people over to the House. So I told them 6, I think, or 5:30, something like that. So, yeah, they came over and made it clear that they were part of this project with the main afl, cio, a couple labor union groups trying to recruit a candidate. And I started listing off names and essentially they were like, no, you don't understand where we think you would be a good candidate. And my wife and I laughed and, and said that's insane, because it is. I mean, we, we make $60,000 a year and the Senate is not for people. People like us, or at least we don't really. You know, I never thought of running for United States Senate. But then essentially they came back with a, with the harder sell and an idea about how this could actually look. And at that point we decided that it was the right thing to do.

[David Remnick]

Tell me a little bit about your political experience. You referred to community organizing. You know, you're working a long day. Tell me about the time that you spent, you know, outside the workday and what you were doing.

[Graham Platner]

It's farming is farming is farming. So you've got your in season where you're out. For me, I'm out on the boat pretty much all day long, all summer, it's very busy. In the winter months, starting after December through April, I tend to have a bit more free time. And in that time I put time into organizing around mostly local economic justice issues or social justice issues. And it's what I've been kind of at the extent of my politics outside of local governance, where I've been the chair of the planning board and also was Harbor Master. And those are, those were areas that I enjoyed thoroughly. I mean, it's, it's, it is something to be able to write policy, implement it, and then essentially see the outcome of it within a week's time. Only at the local level do I think you actually get to engage with things like that.

[David Remnick]

So, Graham, tell me a little bit about you. For a very brief time, we're at a pretty distinguished prep school.

[Graham Platner]

Very briefly. Didn't last very long.

[David Remnick]

Yeah. What happened?

[Graham Platner]

I Got thrown out.

[David Remnick]

What'd you get thrown out for?

[Graham Platner]

I didn't go to class. I. I went to. I went to a very small, rural middle school, and my mother wanted me to have a better education, I suppose. So she had me apply to a bunch of these, like, New England prep schools. We got a really good financial aid package from Hotchkiss in Connecticut. Right. So she sent me down there. I didn't want to go. I went down and just had a. I'd never been around that level of wealth before. I felt out of place.

[David Remnick]

Yeah.

[Graham Platner]

And then I figured out very quickly that if I didn't go to class, then I got to go home. And that is exactly what happened.

[David Remnick]

That was the conclusion you drew, much.

[Graham Platner]

To my mother's chagrin.

[David Remnick]

How did she react?

[Graham Platner]

Poorly. She was very. I did. I did not get to go on the family vacation that year. I. I had to stay home with my dad.

[David Remnick]

How did they react to your decision to go into the military and tell me about that?

[Graham Platner]

Yeah. My. My dad became a school, a teacher, so he could not get drafted during Vietnam. He thought the war in Iraq was deeply stupid. I did, too, to be fair. So he thought my joining the Marine Corps was just a. Or enlisting was a. Was not a good use of my time. And he was afraid I was going to go fight and die in a stupid war. Like he had seen friends from his generation.

[David Remnick]

When you look back on it, why did you go into the military if you thought the war was stupid? It was just a thing that a young man can do to rebel in some way.

[Graham Platner]

Since my earliest memories, I wanted to be a soldier. I grew up loving military history. I did Civil War reenacting. I really. And I. And, like, I don't know why. I don't have an answer. I. I think about this fairly often. It was just something that spoke to me. I mean, for me, it was. It was a. It was an inevit. Inevitability. After graduation, I was working for the Appalachian Mountain Club. I'd spent two years in a professional trail crew in the White Mountains. So I went back to work for the AMC for the summer. And then I deferred a year to go to college to keep my parents happy. But I knew what I was doing. I knew that I wasn't going to go.

[David Remnick]

How did the reality of Iraq and being a soldier match with what you had imagined?

[Graham Platner]

So I had. I went into it, I think, in many ways more informed and already fairly cynical than most. I read a lot of literature from the Vietnam War. In high school, one of my favorite books was A Bright Shining Lie by Neil Sheehan. Yeah. About John Paul Van, who was a very competent and great soldier who then found himself in a war that he thought was being fought poorly. So when I got to Iraq early on, I thought it was working. I mean, I remember coming home from my first deployment and telling people that, like, I was wrong because I've been against the war and I was wrong, that I was wrong. I was, in fact, right the first time around. But I. I really believe what I. What I interacted with was what I thought were tactical failures. I thought that we weren't doing the thing properly. I. I really believed in. In the concept of counterinsurgency. By the time I got out of the Marine Corps in 08, Petraeus and General Mattis had written the counterinsurgency manual. There was this whole, like, ream of thinking that the United States military really needed to focus on this counterinsurgency concept. So I started reading all the old writings from the French and the British and Malaya, and I really believed, truly believed, that we had just been doing it wrong, that it wasn't. That it as a concept was a failure. And it's so funny now looking back on it, because you can read guys in Vietnam having the exact same realization and then coming to the exact same realization that I eventually did, too, which is that it's not a tactical failure. This whole thing is a failed concept. It can't. Strategically. Yeah, it's a. Strategically. It's not gonna. It's not gonna work. But. But, you know, when you're young and you're engaged in something and you believe, and you want to believe in it, you want to make it work. I really. I threw my heart and soul into it.

[David Remnick]

Graham. You know, I was thinking about you in the last couple of days, knowing that we'd be talking, and I was. This past Sunday was just a miserable day. You know, the news from Providence, Rhode island, and then the news from Sydney, Australia, and then the day ending with the murder of Rob Reiner and his wife. And then what followed is the President of the United States issuing a truth social post that just betrayed. I mean, it wasn't surprising in a sense, which is part of what's so awful about it. Yeah, but it just. The idea that somebody holding that sense of responsibility would say something so morally bankrupt and worse. But we also know that human beings say some pretty stupid things over time, and you've had to contend with this. Your comments on Reddit from the past came up issue of your tattoo became infamous because of the link to a Nazi symbol and you've apologized repeatedly. How do you view the notion of what mistakes people can make and then still hold positions of real responsibility, like Senate?

[Graham Platner]

I think one. Did you do it when you were in power? I mean, I think that that's a really important thing. That if, if someone knows that they're, that what they say has so much gravity because other people are paying attention. Like, what do you, how do you use that? How do you act in that manner? I, I do think that if we're going to. I'm an ELDER Millennial, I'm 41. If we're going to rehash everyone's social media posts from their existence, people from my generation, I don't know what politics is going to look like. We'll never get around to the policy part. So I think that there is a, I mean, there. If someone spends 20 years being an avowed white supremacist. Yeah, that's probably a sign if someone over the course of their time on the Internet uses slurs or stupid langu and then ceases to do so. Probably a sign of growth. Probably a sign of how many of us change over time.

[David Remnick]

How old were you when you were making these comments on Reddit and how do you look back on them?

[Graham Platner]

I'm my late 20s, early 30s. And I mean, is that not old.

[David Remnick]

Enough to know better?

[Graham Platner]

Well, I mean, which comment do you mean? I made a lot of comments that I'm not, that I'm not, that I'm not like ashamed of. It's not, it's not as though I have this ream of comments in which I look back and I'm like, oh my God, I was a terrible person back then.

[David Remnick]

So I, I guess comments about victims of sexual assault, for example.

[Graham Platner]

Yeah, well, one, that comment, I made that right when I got out of the infantry and all the, I mean, I don't know if you've read it, but I sure have.

[David Remnick]

Yeah.

[Graham Platner]

Yeah. So the comment was is that I said that people, men and women, shouldn't get too drunk and should take some personal responsibility. I also said that sexual assault didn't occur in the military as much as as people said it did. It does. I learned that very quickly. I came out of the infantry. At the time it was a male only organization. I never interacted with it in the service. So for me, those comments were very much informed by my immature mindset. Coming out of my, frankly, 20s in the combat infantry, I then very quickly, quickly Met people and had conversations and realized that I was very incorrect. Sexual assault occurred often in the military and was often covered up. But, yeah, I mean, I think, you know, those comments I made were at a time in my life where I was. Yeah, I came out of the combat infantry.

[David Remnick]

When you decided to run for the Senate, which is a gigantic leap for anybody, much less somebody who hasn't been in politics for a long time or conventional politics, did you think to yourself, I'm going to have a problem because of these past comments?

[AT&T Sponsor Voice]

No.

[Graham Platner]

If you believe in transformational politics, which I do, you need to believe in the ability for people to change, for people to grow. If we are all just ossified in who we are right now, then there is no point to this. If we can't ever give people the ability to change minds, if we can't give people the ability to grow as human beings, then we're all. And we're all just stuck. I mean, we also know this isn't true. People grow all the time. And for me, this. As uncomfortable as it is and personally unenjoyable to have to talk about stupid things I said on the Internet 13 years ago, it also allows me to publicly model something I think is really important, which is that a lot of us go through transitions in life. A lot of us change our minds, have new experiences, meet new people, are informed by those experiences and come to different conclusions. Our politics change, our views on the world change. And again, while it's not fun to do this, for me, it also really gives me the opportunity to very publicly show that you can believe things once and then you can, over time, believe other things, or you can change your language, change the way you think about stuff, change the way you talk. And I think that's a good thing to model. I think it's. And that. And that. That isn't something that is that you should be ashamed of. You should be able to be proud of the fact that you can turn into a different kind of person. You can think about the world in a different way.

[David Remnick]

I'm speaking with Graham Platner, who's running for a Senate seat in the state of Maine. We'll continue in a moment. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour.

[AT&T Sponsor Voice]

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[Meghna Chakrabarti]

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[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick and I've been speaking with Graham Platner of Maine. Platner is a Democrat and running for the Maine Senate seat held for 28 years by Susan Collins, the Republican. Now, Democrats think that seat could be theirs in the next election if the right candidate runs against her. Janet Mills, the state's popular governor, is also running in the primary. Mills is 77 and considered more of a centrist. It's early to cite polls, but at this point, it looks like either Mills or Platner would be in a tight race in the general election against Susan Collins. I'll continue my conversation now with Graham Platner. I want to get into how you see the world, and I want to get a sense of how you see the Democratic Party these days and what you intend to do to help transform it.

[Graham Platner]

I think the Democratic Party, today's biggest problem is that there is an element of it that has become as attached to corporate interests as the Republican Party is. And by the way, this isn't just like my opinion. I mean, everybody thinks this. Everybody will you hear people say things like, I don't vote because it doesn't matter. Both sides are the same, all that kind of stuff. And I don't. I don't agree with that. I mean, there's a reason I'm running as a Democrat. There's a reason I'm running. If I thought that none of this, if there was no hope, I wouldn't do this. I have an immense amount of hope. However, I do think that there is an innate contradiction in trying to be a party that represents working people, representing those that struggle, those that labor, those that are often exploited or taken advantage of. It is impossible to represent their interests while also trying to represent the interests of those that exploit them. I think that that is a fundamental contradiction that you cannot get past. And my problem is that the Democratic Party used to be the party that represented those people, was the party of labor unions. It was the party of thinking of large structural change that brought about things like Social Security or Medicaid and Medicare. It was the party that understood that protecting working people was going to require some form of imposition on those with wealth and power.

[David Remnick]

When do you think the Democratic Party, in your view, abandoned that?

[Graham Platner]

In the 1990s in the Clinton. I think the lesson that was learned after Reagan was that, and I believe it was the wrong lesson, but other people can disagree. The lesson that was learned was that, oh, the money matters, and we do have to kind of lean into this government's bad. We should lean into the kind of deregulation, corporate side of things. And in doing so, the party sold out organized labor and the party in many ways, sold out. That kind of. That the movement side of our politics.

[David Remnick]

Did you feel that Barack Obama, for example, was in the same camp as Bill Clinton in that way?

[Graham Platner]

I think so. I mean, you know, 2008 financial crisis happens, right? There wasn't. There was a moment. I mean, and Obama's on. On record saying this. There was a moment where there were two options. We give money to homeowners or we give money to the banks. And we chose to give the money. To give the money to the home.

[David Remnick]

To rescue the banks.

[Graham Platner]

Yeah, to rescue the banks. And, you know, that was a. That was an option. There was. And I. For me, that's just kind of indicative of this creeping influence in the Democratic Party. And this is, I think, why we often find ourselves in this weird. Everybody's so confused as to what we're trying to do because we go from the. We have Zoran Mandani on one end and Joe Manchin on the other.

[David Remnick]

The argument, which you well know is that the only kind of Democrat that's gonna win in West Virginia is a Joe Manchin Democrat. Otherwise you're gonna get a MAGA Republican in West Virginia.

[Graham Platner]

My counter to that, sure, is that I think you can win someone in West Virginia if you run on working class populism. But Joe Manchin also very much did not represent the. I mean, he's the reason that we didn't get. Or we couldn't renew the child tax credit. And then we just chose not to continue doing that. That's not the behavior of someone that's representing the interests of working people.

[David Remnick]

Are you getting a lot of love from the leader of the Senate Caucus, from Chuck Schumer?

[Graham Platner]

No, I am not.

[David Remnick]

How would you describe the lack of love there?

[Graham Platner]

It's just been a lack of anything. I've made it very clear that I would love to have a conversation, would love to talk about what we're trying to do here. No one's reached out. And we're almost five months into this thing. Not a single phone call, not a.

[David Remnick]

Single email from the national party organization.

[Graham Platner]

Yeah. From either Chuck Schumer or from the dscc, the Senatorial Campaign Committee. I continue to not have been contacted.

[David Remnick]

Governor Janet Mills has decided to run. And you've got a hot race there. Is she getting the love from the Democratic Party establishment?

[Graham Platner]

Well, the DSCC set up to fundraise with her the day after she announced. So my assumption is, yes.

[David Remnick]

It looks like Schumer and the DSC is going to endorse Janet Mills in the primary, and you've got endorsements from Bernie Sanders and Ro Khanna and others. How does that look on the ground in Maine? What are Maine Democrats actually feeling? How are the polls looking for you? Where are you having success? Where are you having difficulties?

[Graham Platner]

To be frank, the polls continue to be great for us, and that mirrors what I feel on the ground. There is a People are fed up. People are disgusted with the system as it stands, and they don't think that the answers are going to come from establishment politicians who've been chosen by Washington.

[David Remnick]

D.C. how will you run against Susan Collins, presuming that she's the Republican nominee and she's been in that office for a very long time? And incumbents have all kinds of advantages.

[Graham Platner]

Essentially the exact same way. We are building a campaign that is focused on field organizing. We're focused on building the ground game. We've held 35 town halls around the state of Maine in the past couple months. We've talked to tens of thousands of Mainers already. We have 12,000 volunteers. Maine's not a big state. It is geographically, but doesn't have a lot of people. And these people are from all over the state. So for me, this is very much a much It's a larger project than merely a Senate seat. This is about rebuilding, organization, organization in communities, organization and cooperation between existing groups like labor unions, community organizations, the party itself. In my opinion, we need to reconnect with that kind of politics, the politics of movement building. And that speaks to what people are feeling right now, people, myself included. I mean, why I'm doing this. We feel unrepresented.

[David Remnick]

What do you want to get done in the Senate? What are, say, three top policies that you would concentrate on? Because you can't concentrate on everything.

[Graham Platner]

No. Continue pushing for universal health care, Medicare for all. We also need to restrict the ability of senators and congresspeople to trade stocks and bonds. It's essentially legalized corruption, and it needs to end. And we also need to fix the tax code because we cannot continue to tax wages at a higher rate than we tax wealth. That's a math equation that when you run to the end, it's easy to see who winds up with all the money. So those, I think those three things are going to be priorities for me legislatively. I know Medicare for all is going to be a heavy lift. The other two, I think, are going to be a much easier lift. I mean, we've already got some Republicans who are happy to come over on the stocks and bonds issue. Josh Hawley put something forward not too long ago. So I think there's, there's definitely opportunity for wins there.

[David Remnick]

Now you've run an ad talking about how you refuse to accept money from aipac. Are there any other groups that you won't take money from?

[Graham Platner]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Fossil fuel packs. I mean, frankly, any large corporate pack, any dark money pack, we don't take money from them. All the money we're taking in is individual donations. We, we will take money from labor packs, any kind of pack that exists that's kind of, you know, not part of the corporate dark money apparatus, but, but that's it. So we need to know where the money comes from. That's important for us.

[David Remnick]

I want to ask you a couple of questions in view of your, your military experience. Former Secretary of Defense and former head of the CIA Leon Panetta on the show recently, and he said this about having thousands of troops stationed off the coast of Venezuela. He said, we're putting our men and women in uniform in harm's way. We have to assure them that the orders we give them are not going to violate the law, but we're going to, in fact defend our national security in a way that is not legally questionable. What do you make of this, especially coming from someone who saw America's forever war is really up close.

[Graham Platner]

I agree wholeheartedly. I mean, at this point what we're seeing in Venezuela is just a rehash of what we saw with Iraq, but somehow even worse and even dumber, which is magnificent to behold.

[David Remnick]

How is it even worse and even dumber?

[Graham Platner]

I mean, with Iraq, we at least had, I don't know, 10 years of previous engagement. We had UN hearings. It was at least this sort of well crafted propaganda, propaganda machine that a lot of people ate up. And this is just laughable. We're just murdering people. I think the death count now is up to 95. Yeah, we're, we're just murdering people. No declaration of war, no even con concept of why this is a war. And it's all happening, frankly, because the Republicans know that their policies are failing. The economy is getting worse, people are not happy. And the best thing to do is just drum up a war for political purposes. And I think, you know, a lot of people can see it, including a lot of Republicans. And that's what I mean by dumber. It's, it's less, it's less sophisticated. You know, the run up to the Iraq War I think was a sophisticated operation in propaganda. This is just, they realize they have the power and they can do it. And so they're doing it, and that's it.

[David Remnick]

How long were you in the military?

[Graham Platner]

Active, eight years. I was four years the Marine Corps, four years in the United States Army National Guard.

[David Remnick]

With that experience behind you, you've seen a lot of military leaders on the ground, and you've experienced them from afar as well. When you look at Pete Hegseth, who's the Secretary of Defense, or he calls himself Secretary of War, what view do you have of him?

[Graham Platner]

I view a guy who is deeply insecure about his military service.

[David Remnick]

Why would he be insecure about his military service?

[Graham Platner]

I don't know. I'm always curious about that. I mean, look, he was an infantry officer. He served at Guantanamo, and I think he did a deployment to Iraq. Not every deployment to Iraq is the same as other deployments to Iraq. I'm not sure what his was like, but you definitely get the feeling that this is someone who is trying to make up for something, is trying to be this vision of masculinity and warrior prowess that he, frankly, does not represent at all. If he did, why didn't he stay in? Why didn't he continue? Why didn't he go be a Special Forces officer? Why did. I mean, they're like, there were other places in the service to go to really embody that, and he didn't. He got out and became a talking head on television.

[David Remnick]

What was your deployment like?

[Graham Platner]

Oh, I did four.

[David Remnick]

You know.

[Graham Platner]

Two of them were fairly violent. One of them was kind of violent.

[David Remnick]

What does that mean?

[Graham Platner]

Well, I. That's a good question.

[Meghna Chakrabarti]

I.

[Graham Platner]

Sir, I was in Ramadi in 2006 with Kilo Company, 3rd Battalion, 8th Marines. That was a very, very violent deployment. We were.

[David Remnick]

You were in active combat?

[Graham Platner]

Yeah, we're at the government center in downtown Ramadi. It was a place that was. Well, it was the government center of. For Al Anbar Province. So if you had a grievance with the coalition or the Iraqi government, you came down and expressed it generally using direct fire, RPGs, or suicide car bombs. So that's. That was.

[David Remnick]

So you were in the line of fire for an extended period of time?

[Graham Platner]

Yeah, I was a machine gunner. So, yeah, I mean, I. I usually say I saw more combat than most, less than some.

[David Remnick]

There are currently 20 members of the Senate who are veterans. What do you think you all could be doing? Assuming you get elected and you darn well might, what should you be pushing for in terms of legislation for soldiers and veterans?

[Graham Platner]

Well, I think the number one thing we have to do is claw war powers back from the executive branch. I mean, this is something that is.

[David Remnick]

This has been going on for decades, decades.

[Graham Platner]

You know, and, you know, as. As ridiculous as what's happening in Venezuela is right now, we have to remind ourselves that this is the outcome of Congress abdicating its role in war making. We have handed off more and more power to the executive branch over decades, and now we're at a point where they're just dropping bombs on people's boats and like, that shouldn't even be an option, but it is because we've let it become one. So, I mean, I'm very much. I'm a firm believer that we need to be passing legislation that is going to make clear that congressional input is necessary for military action. We, we cannot continue to go down this road. And also, I mean, it's a constitutional duty. The Constitution lays out clearly who is supposed to be in charge of war powers. And it is the bodies that represent the American people most directly, which is Congress.

[David Remnick]

We have a fair number of senators and congresspeople that come on this show, and I invariably ask them about if this job is so awful, and they all complain about it. They're one of many. They can't get anything done. There's no party discipline. Their list of frustrations is endless. And yet no one seems to want to give it up. Very, very few. Very, very few. And in the Republican Party.

[Calvin Tompkins]

If you.

[David Remnick]

Look at it and the MAGA movement and how it has pushed people into being something they might not have been 10 years ago, they're willing to give up some chunk of their soul. So what makes you believe you can come to Washington, put on a suit and a tie if that's what you choose to do?

[Graham Platner]

I will.

[David Remnick]

You're not going to go the Fetterman route?

[Graham Platner]

Well, I mean, I would like to be a senator that accomplishes things. And to do that, you have to be on the floor at some point.

[David Remnick]

But what makes you think that you, as one of a hundred people and as a junior senator, will be able to get much done?

[Graham Platner]

Because I think we are coming into a different era in American politics. I think we are entering an era of. I think we've already entered actually an era of American politics that in many ways is going to look a lot more like that of the late 19th and early 20th century the. Than the last 50 years. We're entering into an era of politics of power, an understanding of what power actually is. It's not merely knowing the rule book. It's about understanding how to organize people and how to Utilize a relationship between activists, an organization on the ground, and the more structural levers of power.

[David Remnick]

Where does Trump and Trumpism fit into your view of these eras of American politics? Is this a post Trump era or did Trump in his own way exploit that?

[Graham Platner]

No, I think Trump exploited it. And the reason for it is much like the end of the Gilded Age. There is an immense amount of working class angst in this country and for good reason. This is something that I find very telling. I go around the state of Maine.

[David Remnick]

And what are people, what are people talking about to you?

[Graham Platner]

Independents, Republicans, Democrats. If you ask any of them, do you think you live in a political or economic system that benefits you? Nobody says yes.

[David Remnick]

What would they have said 20 years ago?

[Graham Platner]

I think 20 years ago they probably would have said yes. Most of them might have said yes.

[David Remnick]

What changed?

[Graham Platner]

What changed is the fact that life got harder down here. And we're also witnessing the ultra wealthy in corporate interests consolidate wealth and power in ways that we can hardly comprehend. I mean, everybody understands that everything is owned by five companies now, right? People get. The people know that. Go around, ask the average person. They know. People understand that the reason that their health care is collapsing here in rural Maine is because of corporate greed. But people, people are getting denied because an AI program gets run and tells them a life saving procedure isn't covered. Meanwhile, the people that run those systems go home with millions of dollars. What changed is that we can see it. What changes that us down here in the real world, we're not idiots. We're not, we're not. The wool has not been pulled over our eyes and we're angry about it. It. And what Trump did is Trump came along and he told people that what they knew was true was true, which is that they are being robbed, that the system is not representing them. He's giving them all the wrong answers. He's laying the blame at the feet of all the wrong people. We understand. You know, those of us who don't like. I don't agree with anything Donald Trump does, except for maybe a little bit of nationalizing of some companies. I mean, if public money gets invested into a company, public ownership should come with it. Seems fair. But besides that I don't agree with very much. However, I do understand why people voted for him like my neighbors voted for him. And I get it. It's because they're pissed because they feel like this whole thing does not represent them. Have they stayed with him and it doesn't. It's cracking like the, the rising costs are just Impossible to ignore. There's going to be an element of the base that's never going to leave them. But I think there are a lot of working people right now they want, they wanted. They voted for change. He was a change candidate. Change did not come, not in the way they wanted. I mean, we are watching our health care system in rural Maine collapse at the moment. Hospitals are closing as we speak, services are diminishing, people's paychecks are going less far. And the housing crisis continues to be a problem in a rural state like.

[David Remnick]

This, which is wild when you look at it systemically. Do you think the problem is distorted capitalism somehow, or is it natural to capitalism? And do you consider yourself a democratic socialist like Mamdani or Bernie Sanders?

[Graham Platner]

I don't consider myself a democratic socialist. I do say that I certainly have a critique of capitalism.

[David Remnick]

But would it be possible to have a viable political career in the state of Maine if you did call yourself a democratic socialist?

[Graham Platner]

Well, probably it would, but it's not what my. It's not my politics. What I would say is that we need to engage with our economic system in a way that does not allow the worst version of it to run rampant, which is essentially where we are right now. Whether it's through taxation, whether it's through regulatory structures, whether it's through anti monopoly law, which we already have on the books, we just choose not to enforce. These are mechanisms that we need to be utilizing to make our system not be one that is purely built on the exploitation of working people, which is what we have right now.

[David Remnick]

Tell me about your own life. You say you and your wife have an income of $60,000?

[Graham Platner]

Yeah, roughly.

[David Remnick]

In the aggregate, what's your experience of. Not to put too fine a point on it, what's your experience of being screwed by the system in recent years?

[Graham Platner]

I mean, when I got out of the service, I was going to college on the GI Bill and I was the guy he was. I went to George, George Washington down in D.C. and I. There was a moment where I, at the time I still wanted to go work for. I want to go work for an intelligence service or maybe federal law enforcement. That was my kind of plan. Although my, because of my combat service, I was. I became quite cynical and jaded and began to not want to do that anymore. So I was in school and then living in Washington D.C. i just became close enough to the power I saw. I met people, I had interactions and I was like, you're the ones I fought a war for. You guys what pissed you Off. Oh, I mean, the fact that, like, these people didn't seem to care about the human cost, to them, this was all political stuff. They were just making decisions based upon, like, well, this might be good for us next election, or something like that. And I'm like, people are dying. We're killing people. I mean, this is not like, the toll is not. It's not theoretical. The human cost is real. And yet in Washington, nobody seems to think like that. Well, there's some. But, like, on the whole, it really does seem that, like, all of this has just become so academic.

[David Remnick]

And when you got back to Maine and started building your life there, what was your experience as a veteran?

[Graham Platner]

Oh, no. And so this is where. This is why my politics are the way that they are. The reason my life is the way that it is is because I am lucky enough to be a disabled combat veteran. I get health care. I don't think about it. I don't deal with insurance companies. I don't deal with CO pays or premiums. When I need help, when I just. When something feels a little funny, I go to the doctor. And I do not think about the cost. It is provided to me by the va. And if it wasn't for that support, I would not have been able to build the life I lived. But because I didn't have to go get a job that was going to provide me with health insurance so I could get treated for things, it gave me an immense amount of freedom. It gave me the freedom to take some time and think about what kind of life do I actually want to live? And I found that I wanted to work on the ocean, and then I got to put the time into working on the sea. I became a diver. I became an oyster farmer. I got to learn the skills how to fix outboard engines, how to do fiberglass work, how to dive in the cold and murky waters of the Gulf of Maine. Technical skills, real things that take a lot of time and commitment, quite frankly, to mastering. I got to do that because the VA gave me health care. And I look around at a community that I'm from, where I was born and raised, full of extremely hardworking, creative people who don't get to start those businesses, who don't get to figure out how they want to live, who don't get this kind of freedom to live a life that fulfills them, that brings them dignity. Instead, they are stuck just scraping by, trying to make it, trying to afford rent.

[David Remnick]

And in your area, what does scraping by look like?

[Graham Platner]

I have a friend of mine. She works three jobs. Her rent is 60% of her monthly income.

[David Remnick]

Jesus.

[Graham Platner]

And her rent just went up because rent everywhere is going up. She's. But the reason she told me is because she's thinking about moving. The problem is she doesn't know where to move to. Where would you go to exactly? I mean, this is like. This is eastern Maine. I mean, this is a. We're a poor community. There are already not a lot of options. And the fact that people here are struggling and can't make it, like, where does somebody with that kind of income go? Where. Where. Where else in the state or the country is she going to go? And more importantly, why should she have to go anywhere? This is where she's from. This is her home. And I just. I refuse to believe that I've watched people in my community watch their material conditions deteriorate at the exact same time that we watched Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk exist. I refuse to believe that these two things are not connected. I'm sorry, I just can't. I fundamentally cannot believe that I'm watching my community suffer and become harder and harder to live in for working people while we watch the richest people in the history of people exist. Those two things are not disconnected.

[David Remnick]

Graham Plattner, thank you so much.

[Graham Platner]

Thank you, David. I really appreciate it.

[David Remnick]

Graham Platner is running for the Senate seat currently held by Susan Collins. He's a veteran of the army and the Marine Corps, and he runs an oyster farm in the state of Maine. Now, are you the kind of oyster guy who is so sick of oysters you can't stand the sight of him, or do you eat them all the time?

[Graham Platner]

No, I eat them all the time. Straight up.

[David Remnick]

Okay. No cocktail sauce. Bullshit.

[Graham Platner]

None of that cocktail sauce is heresy.

[David Remnick]

I agree.

[Graham Platner]

Okay, I will allow. Allow occasionally, maybe a spritz of lemon or some mignonette. Mignonette can be quite nice.

[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour with more to come.

[AT&T Sponsor Voice]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported by AT&T. AT&T believes hearing a voice can change everything. And if you love podcasts, you get it. The power of hearing someone speak is unmatched. It's why we save those voicemails from our loved ones. They mean something. AT&T knows the holidays are the perfect time to do just that. Share your voice. If it's been a while since you called someone who matters, now's the time. Because it's more than just a conversation. It's a chance to say something they'll hear forever. So spread a little love with a call this season. Happy holidays from AT&T. Connecting changes everything.

[Meghna Chakrabarti]

When news first breaks, it's everywhere. In the headlines, on tv, all over social media, in your push notifications. It's like a storm, but the coverage leaves you feeling unsatisfied. Well, that's where we come in. I'm Meghna Chakrabarti, host of OnPoint. We ask the questions that still need answers. We analyze the meaning behind the news and why it matters to your life. We equip you with the knowledge you need to face the next news storm. OnPointe is clarity when it counts. Subscribe today wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Remnick]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Old age is no joke, but it can feel like one. You look everywhere for your glasses until your wife points out that you're wearing them. I'm reading from a piece by Calvin Tompkins, published in this week's New Yorker and is called Becoming a Centenarian. He goes on, I turn 100 this year. People act as though this is an achievement, and I suppose it is, sort of. Nobody in my family has lived this long, and I've been lucky. I'm still in pretty good health. No wasting diseases or Alzheimer's. And friends and strangers comment on how young I look, which cues me to cite the three ages of man youth, maturity, and you'd look great. It was a piece of fiction Calvin Tompkins, Tad to his friends, first contributed to the New Yorker when he was a journalist of 32. He contributed short pieces for a while, but over his many decades at the New Yorker, Tad developed a specialty, writing about visual artists, not so much as a critic, but as both a master of the profile form and and as an endlessly curious viewer, always eager to understand what drives an artist, what makes an artist original. Tad Tompkins practices the form at a level that nobody else can touch.

[Calvin Tompkins]

I knew nothing about contemporary art. I had not intended to write about art or artists. It just happened that way. It sort of took hold of me. The early 60s. It was a very interesting moment in contemporary art. There had been a logjam with abstract expressions, and the critics thought this was what art could be and was the new work that was coming out of Rauschenberg and Cage and, of course, Duchamp. I had the feeling that the period we were in was very much like it must have been in Paris in the twenties.

[David Remnick]

His first of these profiles was of the sculptor Jean Tingly in 1962.

[Calvin Tompkins]

Tangerley had recently done his first piece in the US homage to New York. A crazy, huge, unbelievable machine with many moving parts. The whole purpose, as he said, was to destroy itself in the garden of the Museum of Modern Art. The idea that art could be that funny and that destructive just thrilled me. And then in fairly quick succession, I did John Cage, Bob Rauschenberg, Merce Cunningham, Nam June Paik.

[David Remnick]

Now what's extraordinary is that Tompkins fascination with artists didn't end with the great men of his own generation. He kept going to shows over and over, meeting young artists, asking questions and writing profiles. In recent years, he's been writing about people whose influence in the art world is just peaking now. Simone Lee Salman Tour the experimental video artist Ryan Trecartin. Just a year ago, as Tompkins turned 99, he profiled Rasheed Johnson, who's about half his age. Tad has never lost his passion for the new, for the thrill and risk of starting over again.

[Calvin Tompkins]

I don't know what I'm doing. I never have known what I'm doing. This writing game, you can't. There's no lessons that are of any use at all. You just have to keep trying, keep trying, keep pushing out the words.

[David Remnick]

This year, Tad Tompkins decided to chronicle the experience of turning 100. And it's in the same year as the New Yorker magazine itself turned 100. I'm starting a month and a half in, he wrote in February, because the journal idea didn't come to me until yesterday. January was a preview of the next four years, which may well end up being the worst in American history. But Tagg goes on to say, I'm not going to spend much energy groaning about trumpery in these pages. Plenty of capable people do that every day, and I don't have the time. This has been from Sydney, Australia, to Providence, Rhode island, to Los Angeles, a week of misery, of tragedy. The hundredth birthday of a wonderful person like Calvin Tompkins does too little to erase that. But I do think reading his diary is because it's so full of life, so full of decency and character. A small inspiration of the kind that we all need. You can find becoming [e-mail] that's our program for today. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

[Meghna Chakrabarti]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell and Jared Paul. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul and Ursula Sommer, with guidance from Emily Botin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Barish, Victor Guan and Alejandra Deckett.

[David Remnick]

We had assistance from Jamie York and.

[Graham Platner]

Special thanks to Paul Moakley for his interviews with Calvin Tompkins.

[Meghna Chakrabarti]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherina Endowment.

[David Remnick]

Your new home is now ready. Dr. Horton, America's builder has new homes that are ready today. With new construction communities in Ellensburg and throughout the Greater Seattle area, Dr. Horton has the right home for you. @ Dr.

[Graham Platner]

Horton. We're still building with flexible living.

[David Remnick]

Spaces, smart home technology and two and three car garages. More communities and more homes available every.

[Graham Platner]

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[David Remnick]

Now ready@doctor Horton.com Dr. Horton, America's builder and equal Housing Opportunity Builder. I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship. Wnyc.