The New Yorker Radio Hour: Inside Donald Trump’s Mass-Deportation Plans

Hosted by David Remnick, featuring Jonathan Blitzer

Introduction

In the December 6, 2024 episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, host David Remnick delves into the intricate and contentious topic of immigration policy under Donald Trump's administration. Joining him is Jonathan Blitzer, a staff writer at The New Yorker and author of Everyone who is Gone Is Here, Blitzer provides an in-depth analysis of Trump's aggressive deportation agenda and its far-reaching implications.

Campaign Strategies and Democratic Missteps

Remnick opens the discussion by examining the Democratic Party's handling of immigration during the recent campaign cycle. He questions whether the Democrats, particularly the Biden administration, failed to address immigration adequately, thereby providing fertile ground for Trump's robust deportation promises.

Jonathan Blitzer ([03:05]) asserts, "I definitely think the Democrats and Biden specifically miscalculated in thinking that if they put their heads down and didn't talk about this, the issue would somehow pass or it would kind of dissolve in the general ether."

Blitzer critiques the Democratic approach, highlighting the complexity of conveying nuanced immigration policies compared to the Republicans' straightforward and forceful messaging. He points out that Democrats struggled to balance humaneness with pragmatism, resulting in insufficient communication that Republicans capitalized on with their clear-cut stance on border security.

Biden Administration’s Immigration Policies and Political Fallout

Blitzer outlines two major policy miscalculations by the Biden administration. First, the continuation of stringent Trump-era policies without an effective system for orderly deportations. Second, the actions of Republican governors like Greg Abbott of Texas and Ron DeSantis of Florida, who bused thousands of migrants to blue states, exacerbating public concern and influencing voter behavior.

At [05:10], Remnick notes, "And DeSantis as well." Blitzer responds, emphasizing Greg Abbott's significant role in transforming immigration into a central political issue through these disruptive migrant dispersals.

Blitzer ([06:20]) explains, "The Biden administration essentially was defensive and allowed someone like Greg Abbott to really run the table on them."

This failure to proactively manage the influx led to a perception of an ongoing crisis, particularly in states like New York, which Blitzer links to shifts in voter behavior in blue states ([07:06]).

Trump’s Deportation Agenda: Rhetoric vs. Reality

As the discussion shifts to the incoming Trump administration, Blitzer expresses uncertainty about the feasibility of executing mass deportations as promised. He acknowledges the logistical challenges but warns of the severe social and economic impacts regardless of the exact numbers.

At [10:25], Remnick quotes Stephen Miller: "We are going to deport up to a million people a year," prompting Blitzer ([11:08]) to dissect the statement, noting the ambitious and likely unattainable nature of such a target. He underscores the complexity of coordinating mass deportations and the probable overreach of Trump’s projections.

Blitzer ([13:11]) counters Miller’s claims by highlighting that immigrant populations generally commit crimes at lower rates than U.S. citizens, dispelling the notion that undocumented immigrants predominantly consist of violent criminals.

Historical Context: Operation Wetback and Potential Repercussions

Blitzer draws parallels between Trump's planned deportation campaigns and the historical Operation Wetback of the 1950s, which led to the deportation of over a million people, including many U.S. citizens, through racially motivated mass roundups. He warns that Trump's policies aim to replicate this dark period, causing immense human suffering and societal disruption.

At [18:21], Blitzer reflects, "That operation, Operation Wetback during the Eisenhower era is the only precedent, really, for just the sheer scale and volume of deportations that the Trump administration wants to carry out."

He further cites a study showing the long-term health impacts on communities subjected to large-scale raids, emphasizing the lasting negative effects on social fabric and individual well-being.

Legal and Operational Challenges

The conversation delves into the legality of involving military and law enforcement agencies in domestic deportation efforts. Blitzer expresses concern that the Trump administration may push the boundaries of existing laws by declaring a state of emergency, thereby granting themselves broader powers to implement their deportation plans.

At [20:36], Remnick asks about the legalities, to which Blitzer responds, "They're going to strain the outer limits of the law on that," suggesting that the administration may exploit emergency declarations to justify unprecedented enforcement measures.

Impact on Documented Immigrants and DACA Recipients

Blitzer highlights the vulnerability of individuals on humanitarian parole and DACA recipients, warning that Trump's policies will not only target undocumented immigrants but also those who have legal status or entered the country through provisional programs. He notes the lack of legislative paths for regularizing status, leaving these populations at significant risk of deportation once their temporary statuses expire.

Blitzer ([22:38]) emphasizes, "They can cause immense destruction and devastation even trying to reach that goal," indicating that the policy's human toll extends beyond numbers to profound personal and community harm.

Diminishing Institutional Guardrails

Addressing the absence of institutional checks under Trump's administration, Blitzer reflects on the erosion of internal barriers that previously restrained aggressive immigration enforcement. He cites the Department of Homeland Security's shift towards a more retributive stance, with officials like Chad Wolf capitulating to Miller's directives, thereby enabling more unfettered and harsh enforcement.

At [26:25], Blitzer explains, "This is the most striking issue to my mind, where we've seen what it looks like as the guardrails start to fall away," predicting a surge in operations that disregard previous guidelines against certain types of arrests, leading to increased racial profiling and intrusive raids.

Consequences for Communities and Legal Jurisdictions

Blitzer warns that aggressive deportation policies will strain relationships between federal authorities and local jurisdictions, particularly in Democratic strongholds. He foresees a combative stance from the federal government towards cities and states that resist cooperation, potentially using threats of withholding emergency aid to enforce compliance.

At [28:44], Remnick asks about the term "unfettered," to which Blitzer responds by providing concrete examples of relaxed policies that previously protected individuals from unfair arrests, highlighting the anticipated regression in enforcement standards.

Conclusion

Jonathan Blitzer concludes that while the Trump administration's deportation targets may be unrealistic, the pursuit itself will inflict significant suffering and destabilize communities across the United States. The combination of aggressive rhetoric, weakened legal protections, and diminished institutional guardrails sets the stage for a tumultuous and humanitarian crisis in the realm of immigration.

Blitzer ([31:25]) sums up the gravity of the situation: "They can cause immense destruction and devastation even trying to reach that goal. It's almost immaterial whether or not they reach a million."

Final Thoughts

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour offers a comprehensive exploration of Donald Trump's deportation plans, contextualizing them within historical precedents and current political dynamics. Jonathan Blitzer's insights shed light on the potential repercussions of mass deportation policies, emphasizing the profound human and societal costs that outweigh the administration's ambitious targets.

Listeners seeking a deeper understanding of the complexities surrounding immigration policy and its implications for American society will find this episode both informative and thought-provoking.

Notable Quotes

• Jonathan Blitzer ([03:05]): "I definitely think the Democrats and Biden specifically miscalculated in thinking that if they put their heads down and didn't talk about this, the issue would somehow pass or it would kind of dissolve in the general ether."

• Stephen Miller ([10:25]): "We are going to deport up to a million people a year."

• Jonathan Blitzer ([13:11]): "There is no evidence that there's mass criminality."

• Jonathan Blitzer ([18:21]): "That operation, Operation Wetback during the Eisenhower era is the only precedent, really, for just the sheer scale and volume of deportations that the Trump administration wants to carry out."

• Jonathan Blitzer ([26:25]): "This is the most striking issue to my mind, where we've seen what it looks like as the guardrails start to fall away."

About the Guest

Jonathan Blitzer is a staff writer at The New Yorker, with extensive experience covering immigration and its socio-political impacts. His book, Everyone who is Gone Is Here, offers a definitive account of the immigration crisis in America, providing critical insights into policy developments and their real-world consequences.

For more detailed reporting on immigration and other critical issues, visit The New Yorker.