The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Is America Ready to Make Reparations?

Host: David Remnick
Date: May 24, 2019

Brief Overview

In this episode, The New Yorker Radio Hour dives into the subject of reparations for slavery and legalized discrimination against African Americans. Sparked by the influence of Ta-Nehisi Coates’s landmark 2014 essay “The Case for Reparations,” the episode explores the history, policy debates, and political realities around reparations, and features vivid storytelling from the personal to the political—including the extraordinary recent student-led push for reparations at Georgetown University. Through interviews with Coates, New Yorker correspondent Susan Glasser, and first-person accounts from descendants of the enslaved, the episode intricately weaves together the roots and the urgent present of America’s reckoning with its history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ta-Nehisi Coates and "The Case for Reparations" (00:09–15:23)

The Argument for Reparations

• Coates defines reparations as restitution for the systematic extraction of wealth and resources from African Americans through policies enforced well past emancipation, notably into the 1960s (e.g., redlining, housing discrimination).
  • Quote: “Behind all of that oppression was actually theft.” —Ta-Nehisi Coates (01:54)
  • The policies were not only about mistreatment but actual theft, continuing "within the lifetime of a large number of Americans" (02:52).
• Housing policy, especially in Chicago, is highlighted as a crucial example. The systemic nature of racist policies (like redlining and contract lending) unjustly excluded black Americans from home ownership and neighborhood investment.

The Story of Clyde Ross (04:09–06:54)

• Clyde Ross, born in Mississippi, lost his family’s land to theft and migrated north seeking the American dream, only to be victimized by predatory housing contracts in Chicago.
• The psychological impact: feelings of shame, secrecy among neighbors, and the struggle to keep one’s home.
  • Quote: “We were ashamed. We did not want anyone to know. We were that ignorant.” —Clyde Ross, as quoted by David Remnick (06:00)
• Ross's reaction to Coates’s article: “Reparations will never happen.” (06:59)

The Shift in the National Conversation

• Coates’s article brought reparations from being a “Dave Chappelle joke” into mainstream consideration as a serious policy idea.
  • Quote: “My notion was that you could get people to stop laughing.” —Coates (07:17)
• Comparison to Germany's reparations to Israel post-Holocaust emphasizes the dual need for official acknowledgment and material compensation (08:28–09:07).

What Would Reparations Look Like?

• First step: a government commission to document the crime and deliberate on appropriate remedies.
• Example: Chicago’s reparations for police torture victims, which combined direct payments with educational reforms.
  • Quote: “I think both of those things are crucial.” —Coates (09:07)
• Policymaking should be specific and targeted, not just generic or symbolic.

Politics and Prospects as of 2019

• Over 20 Democratic presidential candidates; 8 support a commission on reparations (10:25).
• Coates acknowledges both symbolic and substantive elements to these positions but views commission support as only a first step.
• He sees Elizabeth Warren as a notably serious advocate; she personally engaged him in conversation about his work (11:15–11:42).
• Ultimately, the biggest shift since 2014 is that "people have stopped laughing." (12:11)

2. The Reparations Debate in the 2020 Presidential Campaign (18:33–28:24)

Political Landscape and Candidate Positions

• Julian Castro calls reparations a “moral debt, this original sin of the country that has not been paid.” (19:10)
• Some Democratic candidates (Harris, Booker, Warren, Williamson) tie reparations to existing policy (e.g., targeted housing or economic policies), or float large numbers ($100–500 billion, per Williamson).
• Cory Booker’s "baby bonds": universal child trust funds that—though not race-specific—could disproportionately benefit black families and help address the racial wealth gap (22:24).

The Difficulty of Race-Conscious Legislation

• For 30 years, H.R. 40—a bill to simply study reparations—languished in Congress due to a bipartisan political reluctance to explicitly center race.
  • Quote: “There is a deep aversion on Capitol Hill to doing things that are seen as explicitly race conscious legislative actions.” —Susan Glasser (21:09)

Polling and Public Support

• National polling indicates low support for reparations (about 26%), in part due to the lack of robust public conversation (26:57).

The Context of the Trump Presidency

• Democratic candidates’ embrace of reparations is partly a reaction to the “toxic racial politics” and racist rhetoric exemplified by the Trump administration and events like Charlottesville (27:25).
• Institutions such as Georgetown are forced to reckon with their histories, as seen in debates about university responsibilities to descendants of people enslaved by their founders.

3. Slavery, Descendants, and the Georgetown Student Reparations Movement (28:27–47:59)

The Personal Story: Melisande Short Colombe

• Melisande (“Mellie”) Short Colombe, a chef in New Orleans, discovers her ancestors were enslaved by Jesuits running Georgetown, and sold to plantations in Louisiana (30:06–32:06).
• She describes the emotional impact of knowing her ancestors' fates directly, and the pain of naming each on the original bill of sale (32:50–33:27).

Institutional Reckoning and The Georgetown Memory Project

• Professor Adam Rothman and Richard Cellini spotlight the university's ties to slavery and efforts to identify descendants.
• Cellini, who is white and Republican, founded the Georgetown Memory Project. It located over 4,000 living descendants, debunking claims they had all died (34:46–36:45).

The Student-Led Reparations Fund

• After years of symbolic gestures (building renaming, African American Studies Department), students—led by descendants—push for real monetary reparations.
• The student referendum proposes a $27 tuition surcharge; intense debate ensues.
• A key exchange at a town hall:
  • “Why do I, as an African American student, have to contribute?” —Javon Price (41:28)
  • “You had the choice... The people who were sold and enslaved... their lack of voice and choice provided for everybody here to choose to walk through the gates...” — Melisande Short Colombe (42:02)

The Vote and Its Aftermath

• The referendum passes overwhelmingly; though non-binding, Georgetown must consider acting as the first U.S. university to directly fund reparations (43:51–44:41).
• The proposed fund would benefit descendants with education, microloans, or health expenses.

Broader Institutional Response

• When asked why the Jesuit order hasn’t made reparations from a recent $57 million land sale, Father Matthew Carnes suggests ongoing dialogue but offers no concrete answer (44:59).

Students’ Reflection: Embracing Collective Responsibility

• Students recognize their own privilege and question how to share or relinquish it; the issue isn’t resolved with a single act (46:25).
  • Quote: “We should always feel uncomfortable with this history... There will always be a way at which we need to ask ourselves these hard questions.” —Father Matthew Carnes (46:25)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ta-Nehisi Coates:

  • “Behind all of that oppression was actually theft.” (01:54)
  • “My notion was that you could get people to stop laughing.” (07:23)
  • “You can’t win this argument by trying to hide the ball, not in the long term.” (09:02)
  • “I think people have stopped laughing, and I think that’s really, really important.” (12:11)

• Clyde Ross (via Coates/Remnick):

  • “We were ashamed. We did not want anyone to know. We were that ignorant.” (06:00)

• Melisande Short Colombe:

  • “It is one thing to know that you were enslaved, theoretically. It is another thing when you know that you were enslaved by men who identify as the Society of Jesus. There became somebody I could be mad at.” (31:41)
  • “You had the choice... The people who were sold and enslaved... their lack of voice and choice provided for everybody here…” (42:02)

• Richard Cellini:

  • “Even the Titanic had survivors.” (36:23)
  • “Money is what was taken from these families. And so in restitution, money is what must be given.” (44:51)

• Father Matthew Carnes:

  • “We should always feel uncomfortable with this history... There will always be a way at which we need to ask ourselves these hard questions.” (46:25)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:09–15:23: Ta-Nehisi Coates on his reparations essay, the story of Clyde Ross, and the political impact.
• 18:33–28:24: Susan Glasser and David Remnick on the 2020 presidential race and the politics of reparations.
• 28:27–36:45: Melisande Short Colombe's discovery of her ancestry and the Georgetown Memory Project.
• 39:52–44:41: The Georgetown student movement, campus debate, reparations referendum, and aftermath.
• 44:51–46:25: Discussion of institutional responsibility and student reflections.

Conclusion

In this episode, The New Yorker Radio Hour presents a nuanced, multifaceted look at reparations—a subject deeply rooted in American history but newly urgent in contemporary politics. Through personal stories, historical analysis, and real policy debate, listeners are invited to grapple with both the legacy of racist theft and the ongoing challenge of imagining what meaningful repair would require. The episode concludes not with easy answers, but with a call to continued discomfort, responsibility, and action.