Podcast Summary: "Is the Tide Turning on Gun Reform?"

The New Yorker Radio Hour (WNYC Studios and The New Yorker)
Host: David Remnick
Air Date: February 8, 2019

Overview

In this episode, David Remnick delves into the renewed national conversation about gun regulation and gun violence in America. With the first Congressional hearing on gun violence in eight years as backdrop, the show explores signs of shifting political winds, the social and cultural roots of America's gun identity, the legislative landscape, and deeply personal stories of trauma and activism. The episode features interviews with Congresswoman Lucy McBath—a mother turned activist after the murder of her son—journalist Mike Spies, survivor Sarah Engel, academic April Zioli, and writer/Navy veteran Will Mackin.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Congressional Hearings: A Shift in the Political Landscape

[00:09 – 02:13]

• After years of legislative inaction, Congress holds its first gun violence hearing in eight years.
• David Remnick underscores the importance as gun reform returns to the Congressional agenda after years dominated by the NRA and mass shootings:

  "Congress holds hearings all the time on everything under the sun. But Wednesday was different because Congress hasn’t held a hearing on gun violence for eight years. ... Whether or not it changes our laws tomorrow or even this term, we may be seeing a shift in the political winds." (Remnick, 01:10)

2. Lucy McBath’s Story and Legislative Efforts

[02:13 – 12:40]

• Congresswoman Lucy McBath recounts the killing of her son Jordan by a stranger following a dispute over music, which propelled her activism and political career.

• She opposed the death penalty for her son’s killer:

  "We never considered pushing for the death penalty because I firmly believe that I am not the one to choose who lives and who dies. Morally and ethically, I believe that decision is left to God." (McBath, 04:07)

• Justice is not truly served, she argues, when victims and their families are left traumatized:

  "There’s no justice in that. ... Until we can eradicate this extremist culture, still justice is not served." (McBath, 04:55)

• McBath co-sponsored universal background checks as her first act in Congress due to overwhelming public and law enforcement support:

  "Universal background checks for all gun sales is probably the number one most common sense way to...change the extremist culture that we’re living under." (McBath, 05:45)

• Political obstacles cited: NRA lobbying, legislative fearmongering, and states loosening rather than strengthening gun laws despite public support for reforms.

• McBath ran on her personal story, appealing especially to mothers:

  "People kept saying to me in the very beginning, don’t run on guns. You can’t win. ... And I basically told my story because I am a mother. ... There were a lot of mothers that were appealing to me because they know they don’t want to be in my club." (McBath, 07:54)

• She supports the Second Amendment but advocates for “common sense” regulations.

Memorable Quote

• "In a sense, guns are a religion here." (McBath, 09:49)

3. The NRA, Political Strategies, and Prospects for Reform

[12:57 – 19:33]

• Journalist Mike Spies discusses the NRA’s declining political and financial power.

  • The NRA’s alignment with Republicans makes it vulnerable when Democrats gain power.

• Gun reform enjoys popular support, but legislative progress is slow—background checks might pass the House but not the Senate.

• The NRA’s strength lies in rapid, coordinated grassroots responses, not just in money:

  "[The NRA] has a very devoted membership that it has trained very well to take action on its issues...You get like ten thousand emails in the course of 24 hours. That tends to send a very powerful message." (Spies, 15:48)

• Spies explains the significance of the Supreme Court’s 2008 Heller decision, which expanded individual gun rights, and speculates that the current Court is unlikely to uphold even modest restrictions.

• Gun culture is rooted in American identity and self-narrative ("sheepdog" mythology), unlike the evidence-focused approach of gun reform advocates:

  "What’s different about the [...] gun violence prevention side, is it’s not really rooted in a story. It’s based on evidence." (Spies, 18:31)

4. The Culture and Psychology of Gun Ownership

[19:33 – 26:03]

• Will Mackin, a Navy veteran and New Yorker writer, describes his lifelong familiarity with guns and the deeply ingrained sense of responsibility and awareness they demand.

• He observes how gun ownership is normalized—and sometimes ritualized—in American families:

  "My hygienist had a picture of herself, like her whole family all holding AR15s like you would...get their Christmas shots and they all took their weapons with them." (Mackin, 24:45)

• He questions the practicality and wisdom of armed civilians intervening in public shootings:

  "To put that on a civilian in Walmart, I mean, I cannot even begin to comprehend it. ... They put us at risk more than they think." (Mackin, 25:25)

5. Survivors and the Real-World Impact of Guns

[26:50 – 31:15]

• Sarah Engel tells of surviving a domestic violence attack in which her abuser used a family-owned rifle to kill her mother and nearly kill her.

  • Engel emphasizes that guns in the home intended for self-protection often end up being used in domestic violence.

  "My dad’s friend...said she was going to get a gun to feel safe at home...and I’m like, that's gonna probably hurt you more than help you." (Engel, 30:27)

• Engel became an advocate, helping pass a Wisconsin law restricting gun access for domestic abusers.

6. Domestic Violence, Legal Loopholes, and State-Level Reforms

[31:54 – 40:42]

• Mike Spies and Professor April Zioli analyze the Lautenberg Amendment (1996), which bars gun ownership by domestic abusers convicted of misdemeanors.

  "I found that it’s associated with a 9% decrease in firearm intimate partner homicide." (Zioli, 33:02)

• Significant loopholes exist:

  • The 'boyfriend loophole'—the law doesn’t cover abusers who are not spouses or cohabitants.
  • Incomplete records prevent enforcement (e.g., Sutherland Springs mass shooting).
  • Some states have expanded laws to cover more offenders, resulting in up to 23% reductions in intimate partner homicides.

• Cultural narratives such as the “good guy with a gun” influence policy and public opinion but are often misleading:

  "It is a fantasy for the most part." (Zioli, 36:50)

• Policy lessons: state-level reforms are more flexible and achievable than federal ones.

Notable Research Highlight

• "State legislators are more nimble and flexible. Generally." (Zioli, 39:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lucy McBath, on forgiveness and activism:

  "I truly believed that would be the noose around my neck and I would not be able to move, move forward, to actively champion for safer gun laws and a safer gun culture, because that’s what I believe I was given to do. And I couldn’t do that without forgiveness." (04:07)

• Will Mackin, on civilian gun hero fantasies:

  "Deploying with the guys I deployed with, who practiced every single day...they had to figure out who to shoot...To put that on a civilian in Walmart, I mean, I cannot even begin to comprehend it." (25:30)

• April Zioli, on the limits of “good guy with a gun” trope:

  "That is such a lovely idea, but it is a fantasy for the most part." (36:50)

• Mike Spies, on behavioral impacts of gun laws:

  "Those numbers really mean something. Those numbers reflect a lot of lives that have been saved." (40:42)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Congressional Gun Violence Hearings & Public Sentiment: 00:09–02:13
• Lucy McBath’s Story and Her Legislative Priorities: 02:13–12:40
• Mike Spies: The NRA, Political Power, and the Supreme Court: 12:57–19:33
• Will Mackin: Gun Culture, Responsibility, and 'Good Guy' Narratives: 19:33–26:03
• Sarah Engel: Surviving Domestic Gun Violence: 26:50–31:15
• April Zioli & Mike Spies: Lautenberg Amendment and State-Level Reforms: 31:54–40:42

Conclusion

This episode paints a layered portrait of America’s struggle with gun violence—intertwining legislative realities, cultural attachments, stories of grief and survival, and evolving political strategies. It highlights halting progress at the federal level, the power of activism born from tragedy, the impact of strong personal narratives, and the incremental but meaningful changes taking root in states across the country.