The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: "Jerrod Carmichael, and the Truth About Impeachment"
Date: May 26, 2017
Host: David Remnick, WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Episode Overview

This episode dives into two major topics:

1. The Political and Constitutional Realities of Impeachment

   • Evan Osnos interviews Gregory Craig, former special counsel to President Bill Clinton, about the complexities of impeachment, what constitutes an impeachable offense, and parallels to current events involving President Trump.

2. A Personal, Candid Conversation with Jerrod Carmichael

   • Vincent Cunningham sits down with the comedian to discuss the nuances of being a young, successful Black man in America, his comedic process, growing up in the South, family, race, religion, and what it means to be honest in comedy.

The episode is interlaced with profiles, storytelling, and moments of levity—from discussions of dystopian fiction to a satirical letter about summer camp by Parker Posey.

Segment 1: The Truth About Impeachment

[00:26 – 16:53]

Main Points & Insights

• Historical Context and the Meaning of Impeachment ([01:18])

  • Evan Osnos lays out current political tensions around Trump and impeachment, linking them to their constitutional roots.
  • Gregory Craig explains that "high crimes and misdemeanors" is fluid and means "whatever the House of Representatives ultimately determines it to mean."

    "It means what the House of Representatives decides it means..." – Gregory Craig, [02:30]

• Impeachment as a Political, Not Judicial, Process ([03:25])

  • The process wears the “garb” of law, but is "profoundly a political process."
  • The standards for what is impeachable can and do shift with political circumstances.

• Lessons from the Clinton Impeachment ([04:49])

  • Craig notes he hoped for bipartisan defense, but “partisan politics really took over.”
  • The defense strategy: as long as impeachment remains partisan, removal from office is improbable.

• Presidential Behavior During Impeachment ([06:35])

  • President Clinton’s successful defense was attributed in part to his focus and ability to govern well through crisis.
  • Craig describes Clinton’s performance as "spectacular," emphasizing how a president acts can sway opinions as much as any legal argument:

    “His capacity to compartmentalize was amazing. And every day he was as good a president as he was ever in his entire term of office.” – Gregory Craig, [06:49]

• Abuse of Power as the Crux ([08:25])

  • The central impeachment question isn’t personal wrongdoing, but “abuse of presidential power”—whether the official used their authority for improper purposes.
  • The Trump/Comey situation already enters this territory, Craig warns, making a “legitimate discussion of impeachable offenses” closer than it was for Clinton.

• Comparisons to Nixon, Clinton, and Trump ([12:39])

  • The public often needs concrete, dramatic evidence (e.g., Nixon’s "smoking gun" tape, Clinton’s blue dress).
  • With Trump, the "Comey vs. Trump" controversy lacks that physical, decisive proof—yet could gain significance if credibility shifts.

    “If his future...boils down to that question of he said versus he said and the American people end up believing that Comey is correct...that could have devastating consequences for the president.” – Gregory Craig, [13:37]

• On Trump’s Chances of Finishing His Term ([15:03])

  • Craig is noncommittal but warns about the risk if Trump keeps “adding to that list of adversaries.”

    “You can’t carry on successfully governing this country by adding to that list of adversaries. They’re very powerful adversaries and they have ways of pursuing their agendas at your expense.” – Gregory Craig, [15:15]

Segment 2: Omar El Akkad on "American War"

[18:41 – 28:11]

Main Points & Insights

• "American War": A Near-Future Civil War Novel ([18:41])

  • The premise: climate change devastates the U.S.; the South secedes after a symbolic federal ban on fossil fuels.
  • El Akkad sees climate change as a stand-in for “stubbornness and pride” and the power of tradition.

• Reporting From the South and Hopelessness ([20:10])

  • First-hand reporting, especially in southern Louisiana, inspired his choice of setting.
  • “Hopelessness is no impediment to hope” for unprivileged people—for them, optimism is about survival.

• Being an Outsider in America ([22:37])

  • El Akkad has always felt like an outsider, but sees America as a place where it’s possible "to just be."
  • Despite writing about America’s divisions, he still holds a fundamental admiration for the U.S.'s freedoms.

• The Book as Universal Allegory ([24:00])

  • Though timely, El Akkad emphasizes he wrote about “the universal language of suffering and the universal language of revenge.”
  • The dystopian aspects reflect the real and recent past, not speculation.

• On War Reporting and Identity ([25:41]/[26:59])

  • Reality of war reporting is harsher than myth; he feels more compelled by stories that need telling.
  • Many outside the U.S. admire its freedoms—even as they may resent its foreign policy.

Interlude: “Letter from Camp” Performed by Parker Posey

[29:09 – 32:10]

A satirical reading of a humorous camp letter originally by Demetri Martin, performed by Parker Posey. This is a lighthearted, comedic break in the episode.

Segment 3: Heart to Heart with Jerrod Carmichael

[32:57 – 48:36]

Main Points & Insights

• Carmichael’s Rise and the “Guilt” of Success ([34:17])

  • Vincent Cunningham introduces Carmichael as a comedian notable for his ambivalence—in contrast to most highly-opinionated peers.
  • Carmichael jokes about the concept of “giving back” to the community:

    “Am I gonna forget where I came from? Of course I am. Like, almost immediately...The community didn’t give me shit. The community stole my bike.” – Jerrod Carmichael, [34:17]

• Going Home and Changing Relationships ([35:44])

  • Family roles and dynamics shift, but core relationships remain.
  • “If you redo your mom’s kitchen, she’ll cook whatever you want in it.” – [35:53]

• Growing Up Black and Navigating Identity ([36:47])

  • Childhood in Winston-Salem was deeply rooted in Black culture—“Black History Month was just this year long thing.”
  • Relocation to integrated schools sparked curiosity and a broader worldview; “my life is like this field trip.”

• On Being a “Good Black Person” ([38:18])

  • The exhaustion and burdens of representing race—"It’s hard being a great black person. It’s a lot of work." – [38:18]
  • Struggles with the obligation to be a credit to one’s race; the tension between candor and responsibility.

• Comedy and the Obligation to Truth ([39:23])

  • Carmichael’s comedic philosophy: obligation “to truth first.”
  • He critiques the tendency to write “aspirationally,” insisting on the power of raw honesty (as in hip-hop).

• The Trayvon Martin Joke & Artistic Courage ([40:45])

  • Spike Lee took issue with certain Carmichael jokes (including a controversial Trayvon Martin segment).
  • Carmichael asserts his provocative intent and the misunderstanding that can arise from audience/listener “buzzword” reactions.

    “A lot of times...people hear certain words and they don’t really listen. They hear the buzzword and they go like, I can’t believe..." – Jerrod Carmichael, [41:00]

• Family, Religion, and Authenticity ([43:43])

  • Early experiences with microphones at church; religion’s spiritual resonance in his life.
  • Though not currently churchgoing, he identifies as Christian; spirituality is “clearer than whether or not I should recycle.”
  • Navigates family disapproval—especially from his mother—when pushing boundaries in comedy.

• Comedy’s “Darkness” and Skepticism ([46:15])

  • Others perceive darkness in his comedy: “I thought we were having fun...and the people like, man, that was dark.”
  • On Trump: Carmichael compares him to a spy-movie mist revealing society’s boundaries:

    “What I really think Donald Trump is, is...like this mist that they spray and it lets you know where all of the wires and the beams are. That’s what Donald Trump is to...American society. I think he let us know where boundaries are...” – Jerrod Carmichael, [47:59]

Segment 4: Ellen Bass – Poetry and the Beauty of Repetition

[49:14 – 54:33]

Bass takes listeners on her daily walk in Santa Cruz, reflecting on the changing coastline and the steady rituals of her life. She reads her poem “Ode to Repetition,” a meditation on daily cycles, gratitude for the ordinary, and the comfort of sameness.

Notable quote:

“You could despair in the fix town of your own life. But when I wake up to pee, I’m grateful. The toilet’s in its usual place, the sink with its gift of water...When I get back in bed, I find the woman who’s been sleeping, sleeping there each night for 30 years. Only she’s not the same...” – Ellen Bass, [53:48]

Memorable Quotes

• Gregory Craig:

  “High crimes and misdemeanors means whatever the House of Representatives ultimately determines it to mean.” ([02:30])

• Jerrod Carmichael:

  “My obligation is always to truth first, right? So that’s the biggest contribution we can give…” ([39:23]) “What I really think Donald Trump is, is...like in spy movies...this mist that they spray and it lets you know where all of the wires and the beams are. That’s what Donald Trump is to...American society. I think he let us know where boundaries are...” ([47:59])

• Omar El Akkad:

  “Hopelessness is no impediment to hope...For the unprivileged, optimism is a matter of survival.” ([21:40])

• Ellen Bass:

  “You could despair in the fix town of your own life. But when I wake up to pee, I’m grateful. The toilet’s in its usual place...” ([53:48])

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Introduction/Jerrod Carmichael Anecdote: [00:07]
• Impeachment Discussion (Evan Osnos & Gregory Craig): [01:18–16:53]
• Profile/Interview: Omar El Akkad: [18:41–28:11]
• Humor Interlude – Camp Letter (Parker Posey): [29:09–32:10]
• Jerrod Carmichael Interview (with Vincent Cunningham): [32:57–48:36]
• Ellen Bass Walk and Poetry Reading: [49:14–54:33]

Overall Tone & Takeaways

• The episode moves fluidly between incisive political analysis, personal and social introspection, and comedic relief.
• It emphasizes the complexity of public processes (impeachment), the unpredictability and burdens of Black excellence, the endurance of “outsiders” in America, and the quiet beauty in life’s routines.
• The speakers balance candor and humor, refusing easy answers—whether on law, politics, personal identity, or art.

This summary provides a full thematic and chronological overview of the episode, spotlighting the main guests, quotes, and sections. The episode’s eclectic mix of constitutional insight, satire, literature, and comedy makes it both timely (in 2017) and resonant today.