Podcast Summary: "Jill Lepore on How a Pandemic Ends"

The New Yorker Radio Hour – May 15, 2020
Host: David Remnick | Guest: Jill Lepore | Other Guests: Andy Burke, Quentin Lucas, Marian Orr

Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour, hosted by David Remnick, explores the history and lived experience of pandemics in America, focusing on the emotional and political challenges of continuing restrictions during COVID-19. Historian Jill Lepore draws comparisons to the polio years and examines how communities coped, how science changed outcomes, and what it feels like to wait for an end. The episode also features conversations with three mayors from Chattanooga, Kansas City, and Cheyenne, highlighting the frontline challenges of reopening cities amid conflicting political pressures.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Finding Historical Comfort: The Polio Years

Guest: Jill Lepore, Professor of History at Harvard and New Yorker staff writer

• Children at Home, Past and Present (00:50 - 02:19)

  • COVID-19’s isolation of children echoes the polio epidemics, where summers meant risk, not freedom:
    • "As a historian, I always think a lot about, well, is there comfort to be found in times in the past when people have had harder struggles and gotten through things?... Immediately comes to mind for me, the stay at home campaigns during the polio years." — Jill Lepore (00:50)
  • Warmer weather worsened polio, transmitting it via water, forcing painful restrictions on children.

• Radio as Social Support (02:19 - 03:35)

  • Communities created “Stay at Home” entertainment, e.g., Fun at Home (WCCO, 1946), with then-mayor Hubert Humphrey reading the comics for children:
    • "He comes in, volunteers to come into the radio station on Sunday to read the funnies out loud." — Jill Lepore (02:43)
    • "I still love listening to it. But it's also quietly desperate." — Jill Lepore (04:33)

• Children and Vulnerability (03:35 - 04:33)

  • Unlike COVID-19, polio mostly affected the young. The nickname “the baby plague” captured parental fears.
    • “For a long time, polio was called the baby plague, which is this heartbreaking name. … knowing that your children … are the most vulnerable.” — Jill Lepore (03:35)

2. The Race for a Vaccine: Salk’s Triumph

• Terrible Polio Years & Scientific Hope (05:14 - 07:49)

  • 1952 saw America’s worst polio outbreak. Jonas Salk developed a controversial vaccine, launching the largest field trial in public health history.
    • "Finally, on this momentous day, April 12, 1955... the vaccine works." — Jill Lepore (06:10, 07:21)
  • There was a sense of collective relief and euphoria when the Salk vaccine succeeded.

• The Vanishing Memory of Disease (08:01 - 09:36)

  • Vaccination made polio fade from popular memory, highlighting the blessing and contingency of scientific progress.
    • "We forget how bad the disease was. But there's a generation… whose most significant early memory is of waiting in line to get the Salk vaccine." — Jill Lepore (08:01)
    • Lepore reflects on children who may recall the COVID-19 vaccine as their own generational “timestamp”.

3. How Mayors Navigate Reopening Amidst Uncertainty

Host: David Remnick
Guests: Andy Burke (Chattanooga, TN), Quentin Lucas (Kansas City, MO), Marian Orr (Cheyenne, WY)

• Chattanooga, TN – Andy Burke (11:08 - 15:24)

  • The abrupt shift from economic growth to crisis management, with an early city shutdown that kept cases relatively low.
    • “We went from Chattanooga being the number one city... to trying to prevent people from getting sick.” — Andy Burke (11:27)
  • Frustration at being overruled by the state’s premature reopening, potentially costing lives.
    • "I'm extremely worried that it is [a decision that will be paid for in human lives]." — Andy Burke (13:44)
  • The legal and ethical tension between following state mandates and prioritizing local well-being.

• Kansas City, MO – Quentin Lucas (15:24 - 20:59)

  • The federal government’s inconsistent messaging created local chaos and undermined public health:
    • "I regret that I have to say [the president] does make a difference now." — Quentin Lucas (15:24)
    • Lucas recounts being called a “Nazi” for stay-at-home orders and draws direct lines to presidential rhetoric:
      • “I think as we've unleashed some level of total detachment from… science… you have seen… very negative sentiment.” — Quentin Lucas (17:44)
  • Lack of CDC/Federal guidance places all decision-making on local officials, who must experiment and adapt in real-time.

• Cheyenne, WY – Marian Orr (21:05 - 26:06)

  • Severe economic impact due to oil/gas downturn and plummeting tax revenue, compounded by COVID-19 (22:16).
    • “We've been devastated… Our entire state's population is less than 600,000.” — Marian Orr (21:22, 23:03)
  • Wyoming chose not to impose a formal lockdown, trusting rural sparsity and state guidance.
  • Orr, a Republican, criticizes federal rhetoric as unhelpful, emphasizing bipartisan cooperation:
    • "This virus… it's bipartisan, it's not a Republican and it's not a Democrat. We really need to… communicate as leaders in a very mindful… way." — Marian Orr (23:44)
  • Foresees permanent changes in government business—more telework, less investment in physical infrastructure.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Historical Echoes:
  • “When I first listened to this clip... it's so adorable and... sweet and... quaint, but somehow the pathos of it didn't strike me. ...It's also quietly desperate.” — Jill Lepore (04:33)
• On Parental Anxiety:
  • “What it does to know that your children, babies, toddlers, preschoolers, are the most vulnerable.” — Jill Lepore (03:35)
• On Collective Relief:
  • “It's the relief, the joy, the exaltation, the exhilaration, the knowledge that this thing could end.” — Jill Lepore (07:21)
• On Memory and Healing:
  • “There's a generation of Americans whose most significant early memory is of waiting in line to get the Salk vaccine... And I think about the generation of kids who we can only hope will remember the day that they go to get the coronavirus vaccine. And it will be their timestamp.” — Jill Lepore (08:01)
• On Federal and State Tensions:
  • "We essentially went from that to a full scale reopen... We know that from the CDC guidelines, this is not the public health recommended way to do this." — Andy Burke (12:35)
  • “It is shocking sometimes how many people that may not even subscribe politically to the president's viewpoint still listen to him... particularly some of our younger people model that level of behavior.” — Quentin Lucas (18:22)
• On the Permanence of Change:
  • “Perhaps the way we do business and deliver government services shall be changed forever.” — Marian Orr (25:52)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:50: Jill Lepore: Connecting current COVID hardships to the polio era
• 02:25: Clip of Mayor Hubert Humphrey reading the Sunday funnies on radio, 1946
• 05:14: Jill Lepore on Jonas Salk and the development/testing of the polio vaccine
• 08:01: Lepore on generational memory of pandemics and vaccines
• 11:08: Interview with Mayor Andy Burke (Chattanooga) begins
• 13:44: Burke expresses fear that reopening may cost lives
• 15:24: Kansas City Mayor Quentin Lucas on federal influence and anti-lockdown protests
• 17:44: Lucas draws connections between presidential rhetoric and local tensions
• 18:22: Problems caused by lack of federal/public health guidance
• 21:05: Interview with Mayor Marian Orr (Cheyenne) begins
• 23:44: Orr denounces partisan rhetoric and calls for mindful, science-based leadership
• 25:52: The future of municipal life post-COVID, with fundamental changes

Tone & Language

The episode deftly blends historical reflection with current crisis management, moving from empathy and nostalgia (in Lepore’s segments) to urgency, frustration, and resilience (in the mayoral interviews). Speakers' candidness—whether personal memories of parenthood or professional exasperation with politics—gives the episode gravity and hope.

Conclusion

"Jill Lepore on How a Pandemic Ends" uses the lens of history to bring solace, perspective, and caution to the COVID-19 era. The episode contrasts the collective struggle and ingenuity of past health crises with the disjointed, heavily politicized environment of the present. It honors those who wait, adapt, and hope for a moment when children’s memories might, again, signal a pandemic’s end.