The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Marianne Williamson Would Like to Clarify
Date: August 30, 2019
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Marianne Williamson

Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with Marianne Williamson, author, spiritual teacher, and then-candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination. David Remnick explores Williamson’s motivations for running, her perspectives on American politics and spirituality, policy platforms, and public misconceptions about her. The conversation also addresses controversies (such as her stance on vaccines) and her experience as an unconventional candidate.

Main Theme

Williamson frames her candidacy as an urgent intervention rooted in moral and spiritual principles, not just political policy. She articulates her belief that love, as a political force, can counteract the harnessing of fear and hate, which she sees as driving forces in American politics today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Marianne Williamson is Running (01:08–03:21)

• Motivation: Williamson describes a sense of responsibility shared by many Americans after Trump’s election—an urge to help the country in a meaningful way, drawing on one’s own particular skills.
• Challenge to the Status Quo: She argues that solutions shouldn’t be left solely to entrenched politicians and references major historical reforms driven by “the people,” often grounded in spiritual conviction.
• Quote:

  “Nothing is the same in terms of where we see ourselves in relationship to the rest of our lives, to our country, to the rest of the world… I challenge the idea that only the people whose careers have been entrenched for years... are qualified to lead us out of this ditch.” (01:28–02:20)

2. The Power of Love vs. Fear in Politics (00:43–01:08, 04:30–05:43)

• Spiritual Framing: Williamson critiques Trump for harnessing fear in the American psyche, claiming her approach is to harness love for political change.
• Collectivization of Hate: She identifies how racism, bigotry, and other negative forces have become collectivized and amplified in politics, arguing that love and decency can be similarly organized for good.
• Quote:

  “You have harnessed fear for political purposes and only love can cast that out. …I’m going to harness love for political purposes. I will meet you on that field. And sir, love will win.” (00:43)
  “The problem is not that there are more haters than decent, loving, good people... The problem is that the haters in this country have become collectivized for political purposes. …We could harness all that and change the world.” (04:41–05:33)

3. Williamson’s Policy Vision and the “Moral Economy” (06:08–07:24)

• Four Pillars: Her “moral politics” rest on:
  • Moral economy: Hold capitalism accountable; repeal the 2017 tax cut; restore middle-class tax cuts; end fossil fuel subsidies; government negotiating power for pharmaceuticals; reallocate military spending; tax on billionaire assets.
• Quote:

  “Trickle-down economics is an amoral system that has led to immoral consequences... I think we need capitalism with a conscience.” (06:08–06:31)

4. Cabinet Vision and “Consciousness” (07:24–08:44)

• Cabinet Picks: Williamson says her administration would include people with both government experience and alignment with her values, especially on criminal justice, voter suppression, and white-collar crime.
• Notable Moment: Names Nicholas Kristof as her (hypothetical) Secretary of State — despite his public criticism of her.
• Quote:

  “All the people in my cabinet would have to have a lot of experience in government, but they would also have the consciousness that I wish to bring.” (07:31)

5. Personal History & Encounters with Trump (08:44–10:28)

• Early Meeting: Remembers seeing Trump at Mar-a-Lago in the 1990s, finds his transformation over the years somewhat “mysterious.”
• Refuses to Engage in Personal Attacks:

  “I’m not running on a campaign of personal demonization or personal attack... I can keep it to my conversations about the president’s policies, and that’s all I want.” (10:15–10:26)

6. Clarifying Her Position on Vaccines (10:39–12:30)

• Firm Statement of Support: Williamson affirms the importance and necessity of vaccinations, acknowledges a prior “sloppy” comment, and agrees the government should act in the public interest based on scientific evidence.
• Quote:

  “Vaccinations save lives. …The government absolutely must come down on the side of the public good.” (11:06)
  “That was a sloppy comment that a presidential candidate should not have said.” (11:38)

7. Experience Running for President and Media Perceptions (12:30–14:03)

• Surprised by Hostility from the Left:

  “I didn’t think the left was so mean. I didn’t think the left lied like this. I thought the right did that. I thought we were better.” (13:00)

• Rebuffing Stereotypes: Responds to “crystal gazing kook” narratives:

  “There is no crystal in my home, David. …I’ve never told an AIDS patient not to take their medicine…” (13:24)

8. Lasting Impact and Reparations Policy (14:03–14:59)

• Claim to Leading on Reparations: States she was the first to make reparations a major campaign issue and draws a distinction between reparations and typical race-based policy proposals.
• Quote:

  “Were there other candidates who are talking about reparations? They wouldn’t be talking about reparations if I had not opened that up and made it a pillar of my campaign.” (14:03)

• Challenge from Remnick: Pushback that Cory Booker would disagree; Williamson maintains her claim.

9. Debate Eligibility and Campaign Endurance (15:05–16:00)

• Support Base and Next Steps: Describes encouragement from supporters and her intention to continue running—says she’ll know internally when to stop.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Harnessing Love:
  “I will meet you on that field. And sir, love will win.” (00:43)

• On Historical Change:
  “With every major course correction in terms of social justice … it has, in fact, been an intervention by the people themselves…centered in religious and spiritual [principles].” (02:32–03:15)

• On Economic Policy:
  “Trickle down economics is an amoral system that has led to immoral consequences. …I think we need capitalism with a conscience.” (06:08–06:31)

• On Media Stereotypes:
  “There is no crystal in my home, David. There’s never been a crystal on stage when I’ve talked…” (13:24)

• On Learning from Campaigning:
  “It’s certainly a challenge to practice what you preach.” (13:00)

Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |----------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:43 | Williamson’s overture to Trump: harnessing love vs. fear | | 01:28–02:20 | On why she’s running for president | | 02:32–03:15 | Spiritual movements and course correction in U.S. history | | 04:30–05:33 | How love and hate have been harnessed politically | | 06:08–07:24 | The “four pillars” of Williamson’s moral politics, economic vision | | 07:31–08:44 | Cabinet philosophy and mention of Nicholas Kristof | | 10:39–12:30 | Vaccine stance clarification and prior “sloppy” comment | | 12:30–14:03 | Campaign experience, stereotypes, and refuting media claims | | 14:03–14:59 | Reparations and policy influence | | 15:05–16:00 | Debate eligibility and persistence in campaign |

Conclusion

Marianne Williamson uses moral and spiritual language to advocate for political change, urging Americans to harness love instead of fear. She presents a platform of progressive economic reforms and social justice, and addresses controversies openly—clarifying her position on vaccines and refuting mischaracterizations. Amid skepticism and media caricature, she insists that outsiders and nontraditional leaders have historically driven America’s greatest movements for justice and possibility.

For full context and nuance, listening to the original conversation is recommended. This summary captures the episode’s substantive discussion and perspective.