Podcast Summary: "Molly Ringwald, Judd Apatow, and #MeToo"

The New Yorker Radio Hour – June 26, 2018
Hosted by David Remnick; produced by WNYC Studios & The New Yorker

Overview

This episode explores how the #MeToo movement has impacted American culture, with a dual focus on the evangelical church and its grappling with abuse and gender roles, as well as Hollywood's reckoning with problematic elements of iconic coming-of-age films. The episode features interviews with evangelical activist Autumn Miles, actress Molly Ringwald reflecting on her 1980s films, and filmmaker Judd Apatow. Through personal stories, critiques, and candid conversation, the guests examine the evolution of societal values, personal responsibility, and the persistent need for cultural self-examination.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The #MeToo Movement and the Evangelical Community

[02:05 – 14:41] Autumn Miles with Eliza Griswold

• Shift and Rift in Evangelicalism

  • The #MeToo movement is prompting major changes and divisions within evangelical churches, especially around gender roles and abuse accountability.
  • Autumn Miles: "A rift? Yeah, that as well. But you know what? A rift. I'm okay with a rift for the shift." (02:31)

• Personal Story of Abuse and Empowerment

  • Autumn Miles recounts her abusive first marriage, the misuse of scripture ("wives, submit to your husbands"), and the church's failure to protect her.
  • She describes finding personal empowerment through her faith, not through institutional support.
  • Autumn Miles: "The spirit of God spoke to me and said, Do you remember me?" (07:04)
  • The Baptist church elders threatened excommunication over her divorce, reinforcing damaging church dynamics.

• Role of Gender and Leadership in the Church

  • Complementarianism (the idea that men and women have different, complementary roles) remains contested; Miles advocates for co-pastoring as a "beautiful thing" when done with true equality.
  • Autumn Miles: "The woman is not less important than the man, and the man is not less important than the woman." (11:40)

• Repentance and Institutional Reform

  • Miles calls for institutional self-reflection, true repentance ("Acknowledging that you're wrong." [13:53]), and practical reforms to elevate and protect women within church structures.

Notable Quote:
"If I can help one woman that is suffering today, I'll take all of those insults that are hurled at me." – Autumn Miles (12:47)

2. Molly Ringwald, John Hughes Films, and Rethinking the Past

[15:20 – 31:52] Molly Ringwald with Judd Apatow

• Re-examining Iconic Films through a #MeToo Lens

  • Molly Ringwald discusses her evolving feelings about John Hughes’ films (Sixteen Candles, Pretty in Pink, The Breakfast Club), especially after becoming a mother and in the wake of #MeToo.
  • She grapples with the discomfort of iconic scenes, such as sexual harassment in The Breakfast Club:
    • Molly Ringwald: "I don't want to imagine a world where somebody basically mistreats my daughter and that she doesn't expect an apology." (21:33)

• Discussing Blind Spots and Lasting Influence

  • Judd Apatow and Ringwald discuss how movies they loved in youth have elements that now feel problematic, highlighting both nostalgia and a growing recognition of racism, sexism, and objectification.
  • Apatow reflects on how those films influenced him and acknowledges the challenge of learning from, not simply erasing, the past.
  • Judd Apatow: "There are so many jokes that you wouldn't do from the past. So the question is, how are we supposed to feel about jokes that we wouldn't do now?" (23:18)
  • Both reference cringing at scenes/jokes involving racist stereotypes and sexual content.

• Contemporary Filmmaking and Responsibility

  • They discuss criticism of Apatow’s own work (notably, Knocked Up) and how writers are responsible for evolving depictions of women and relationships.
    • Apatow defends writing flawed, growing characters: "Characters are supposed to be flawed, and a lot of times they're supposed to learn lessons. We can't really make movies where everyone is great and respectful the whole time, because then there's no drama." (27:12)
  • The challenge of supporting the #MeToo movement while reckoning with the misconduct of people within one’s professional circles.
    • Judd Apatow: "I know people on both sides of it. I know people who have been accused and I know accusers. And it's really tragic... But overall, in the big picture, we are talking about something that nobody has ever talked about before. How badly women are treated, how they are disrespected in ways that men haven't paid any attention to." (28:12)

• Personal Experience and Protecting Oneself

  • Ringwald shares her own experiences with inappropriate behavior in Hollywood as a teenager, crediting her parents and speaking up for herself—but highlighting the broader culture of silence and complicity.
  • Molly Ringwald: "If I say I was a strong person, it makes it sound like I'm saying that those women weren't strong...I think my parents were very protective. And I also generally spoke up." (29:29)

• Cultural Change and Real Progress

  • Both acknowledge that while fear of consequence is now present, true change requires deeper moral and cultural growth.
    • Molly Ringwald: "It would also just be nice if it wasn't just the fear of being fired...if people were good people." (30:47)
    • Judd Apatow: "We can change how we do business. We can change who's in power so that the future is much healthier and more respectful than it has been in the past." (31:37)

Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• Autumn Miles on Church Reform:
  "I'm okay with a rift for the shift." (02:31)

• Molly Ringwald on Her Films:
  "There are certain things that I feel very uncomfortable with as a feminist and as a mother." (20:30)
  "I don't want to imagine a world where somebody basically mistreats my daughter and that she doesn't expect an apology." (21:33)

• Judd Apatow on Reexamining Past Work:
  "There are so many jokes that you wouldn't do from the past. So the question is, how are we supposed to feel about jokes that we wouldn't do now?" (23:18)

• On Industry Change:
  "How are all people respected on a set? ...We can change who's in power so that the future is much healthier and more respectful than it has been in the past." – Judd Apatow (31:37)

Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:05] – [14:41]: Interview with Autumn Miles (evangelical response to #MeToo, personal experience, church reform)
• [15:20] – [31:52]: Molly Ringwald and Judd Apatow in conversation (films, #MeToo, Hollywood culture)
• [21:33]: Ringwald on wishing for a better model for her daughter
• [23:18]: Apatow reflects on jokes that "wouldn't be done now"
• [27:12]: Discussion on flawed characters and growth
• [29:29]: Ringwald describes protecting herself as a young actress
• [31:37]: Apatow’s closing thoughts on industry progress

Tone and Language

The conversation is candid, empathetic, and searching. Guests openly reckon with painful personal and institutional histories while maintaining respect for nuance—a hallmark of thoughtful critique and honest storytelling.

Summary

This episode powerfully intertwines the struggles for cultural change within American evangelicalism and Hollywood, using firsthand stories and reflective dialogue. It highlights the difficulty—and necessity—of critiquing beloved cultural touchstones, holds space for the ongoing process of societal repentance, and insists that progress, while difficult and sometimes divisive, is both possible and urgent.