Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour

Episode: Podcast Extra: The "Remarkable Parallels" Between Nixon and Trump
Host: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker
Date: March 2, 2017
Guest: John Dean (Former Nixon White House Counsel, Watergate witness and author)

Overview

This episode focuses on the “remarkable parallels” between Richard Nixon and Donald Trump, particularly their adversarial relationship with the press, approaches to scandal, and styles of leadership. Through a conversation between The New Yorker's Amy Davidson and John Dean—who served as White House counsel under Nixon and was a key Watergate witness—the podcast draws comparisons between Watergate and the then-unfolding Russiagate, exploring both presidential personalities and broader lessons for American democracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Historical Parallels: Nixon’s Letter to Trump & Shared Traits

• The episode opens with Amy Davidson reading a 1987 letter from Nixon to Trump, predicting political success for Trump—a letter he intended to hang in the White House.
• Both Nixon and Trump share a "hatred of the news media and elites," leading to inevitable comparisons, especially as Trump's administration became embroiled in the Russiagate scandal.
  • [00:07] Amy Davidson: “It's not hard to find parallels between the two men, particularly the hatred of the news media and the so-called elites.”

2. Personality and Language: The Authoritarian Heir

• Third Person and “Royal We”: John Dean notes Trump mimics Nixon’s habit of self-reference in the third person and is “approaching” the royal “we.”
• Both consistently look for enemies and hold deep resentment.
  • [01:45] John Dean: “Like Nixon, you hear Trump speak in the third person. He hasn't started using, as Nixon did, the royal we, but he's approaching that...I see it most in the fact they both look for their enemies and hold great resentment towards those they perceive as their enemies.”

3. The “Nixonian Environment”: Atmosphere of Deceit and Theater

• Dean describes Nixon’s presidency as a moral abyss: full of performances, secrecy, and a tightly controlled image.
• Many staffers never saw the “real” Nixon due to his theatrical, performative style in group settings; parallels are drawn to Trump’s public persona.
  • [02:50] John Dean: “He was acting, he was portraying the way he wanted to be seen and putting on a little show for the staff and, and a lot of theater. I hear that on the tapes.”

4. Paranoia and Authoritarianism: Degrees of Control

• Both men are described as “authoritarian personalities.” But Trump is “more overt” and public in his authoritarianism compared to Nixon’s more private approach.
  • [03:53] John Dean: “They're clearly both authoritarian personalities...Nixon did it behind closed doors. On a 10 point scale, I'd put Nixon maybe somewhere between 6 and 7. I'd put Trump at a 10. He is a poster boy for an authoritarian personality.”

5. Handling of Scandal: Cover-ups and Investigative Defense

• Dean explains how the White House’s reaction to FBI investigations is crucial; openness with investigators signals innocence, while attempts to influence or cover up are damning.
• He references a recent tweet, describing administration pressure on the FBI as the classic start of a cover-up.
  • [04:23] John Dean: “Pushback on an FBI investigation of the White House is better known as a cover up.”
  • Cites Hillary Clinton’s willingness to open her staff to investigation as a contrast.
  • [05:02] John Dean: “That's just not the way you innocent people deal with these issues. I'm sorry.”

6. Obsession with Leaks—the ‘Unhealthy’ Hunt

• Dean criticizes excessive focus on leaks as harmful, remarking on similarities between Nixon’s and Trump’s efforts to stop staff leaks.
• He also highlights the “remarkable parallel” between Nixon’s secret contacts with South Vietnam and alleged Trump campaign contacts with Russia.
  • [06:46] John Dean: “It's unhealthy. It's again, one of the lessons from Watergate is very clear. Nixon's problems emanated from his deep concern about leaks.”
  • Points out Nixon wiretapped dozens, yet never found meaningful leakers.
  • [08:01] John Dean: “Nixon successfully covered that up. But...he called the FBI just as Trump has done, and pressed them to start investigating...They never found the leaker by doing all that, and seldom do you.”

7. Attacks on Judges and the Rule of Law

• The podcast discusses Trump’s disparaging of a judge as a “so-called judge,” drawing a parallel to Nixon’s similar disdain for judicial oversight.
• Dean warns that if Nixon had defied the Supreme Court, it would have been an impeachable crisis—and such defiance can create constitutional threats.
  • [09:25] John Dean: “If he had defied the Supreme Court, he clearly would have been impeached just for that. But again, the court doesn't have the US army behind it and the Congress doesn't either. So these are how you create very serious constitutional crises that can end a democracy.”

8. The Press: Role and Impact

• Discusses the consistent role of the media in holding power accountable, even when they are not ahead of investigators.
• For Watergate, the press kept the story alive and public, which applied real pressure to the Nixon administration.
  • [10:58] John Dean: “The press never cracked the Watergate story...What they did do is they kept it on the front page, they kept the pressure on the story, and they made it a big deal inside the Beltway.”
• The press’s persistence is described as crucial in “forcing” moments of accountability, such as the removal of Michael Flynn.

9. Revelatory Role of the Press

• The press’s job includes “pushing until the President reveals who he is.”
  • [11:32] John Dean: “I think that is one of their roles, yes.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [01:45] John Dean: "He is very much Nixon’s heir...they both look for their enemies and hold great resentment."
• [03:53] John Dean: "They're clearly both authoritarian personalities...I'd put Nixon maybe somewhere between 6 and 7. I'd put Trump at a 10."
• [04:23] John Dean: "Pushback on an FBI investigation of the White House is better known as a cover up."
• [05:02] John Dean: “That's just not the way you innocent people deal with these issues. I’m sorry.”
• [06:46] John Dean: "It's unhealthy. It's again, one of the lessons from Watergate is very clear. Nixon's problems emanated from his deep concern about leaks."
• [10:58] John Dean: "What [the press] did do is they kept it on the front page, they kept the pressure on the story, and they made it a big deal inside the Beltway."
• [11:32] John Dean: "I think that is one of their roles, yes."

Important Timestamps

• [00:07] – Nixon’s letter to Trump; setup of parallels and introduction of John Dean
• [01:45] – Trump as Nixon’s “heir” in personality and style
• [03:53] – Discussion of authoritarian personalities
• [04:23] – Cover-ups, pushback against FBI, and lessons from Watergate
• [06:46] – The damage caused by presidential fear of leaks; historical parallel to Vietnam and Russia
• [09:25] – The impact of undermining judicial authority
• [10:58] – The real influence of the press during Watergate and lessons for today

Conclusion

This episode uses history and personal insider knowledge to illuminate similarities between Nixon’s and Trump’s approaches to power, the media, and scandal. With vivid anecdotes and pointed warnings, John Dean underscores how unhealthy White House cultures and adversarial postures toward oversight—be it from the courts, Congress, or the press—pose grave risks to democracy. The episode urges vigilance and reminds listeners that, while events may not repeat exactly, their patterns and dangers certainly echo through time.