Praying for Tangier Island

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Praying for Tangier Island"

Podcast: The New Yorker Radio Hour, WNYC Studios and The New Yorker
Host: David Remnick
Episode Air Date: December 1, 2017

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on Tangier Island, a small, rapidly shrinking community in the Chesapeake Bay. Faced with intensifying erosion, climate change, and political divides over the causes and solutions, Tangier stands as both a canary in the coal mine for climate change and a close-knit island determined to survive. Through storytelling, interviews, and poignant local voices, the episode explores the physical and cultural threats to the island, the skepticism among its residents about climate science, their deep religious faith, and their contentious interactions with national politics and media.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Tangier Island in Crisis

• Natural Disasters Context: The episode opens with host David Remnick reflecting on a year marked by catastrophic hurricanes and wildfires, tying these events to climate change and introducing Tangier Island as a community in the crosshairs ([00:36]-[01:29]).
• Storm Approaching: New Yorker reporter Carolyn Corman visits the island during an incoming storm, participating in a rescue of baby osprey with Mayor James Eskridge and Cameron Evans ([01:21]-[03:02]).

2. Erosion and Shrinking Land

• Landscape: The island, once more than triple its current size, now faces rapid land loss, largely attributed by residents to erosion rather than rising sea levels ([03:17]-[03:55]).
• Living with Floodwaters: Daily life is shaped by the weather, which is ever-threatening and dictates residents' routines ([04:05]-[04:46]).

3. Local Views: Faith, Family, and the Power of the Sea Wall

• Community Bonds and Religion: Trenum Moore, a high school math teacher, shares how faith and generational ties tie the community together. Her grandmother’s vision led to the first sea wall, which provided some protection ([05:10]-[05:40]).
  • Quote: “The Lord has given me. I've had a vision. And then two years later, we had the seawall dedication.” — Trenum Moore ([05:10])
• Seawall as Salvation: Residents see the seawall as crucial, praying for an extension to protect the entire island ([05:53]-[06:09]).

4. Climate Change Debates and Outsider Perception

• Skepticism Towards Climate Science: Moore and Eskridge distinguish erosion from climate change, skeptical of scientific explanations connecting the two.
  • Quote: “Do I think climate change is an issue?...I don't know that. I'm reading it.” — Trenum Moore ([07:08])
• The CNN Town Hall: Mayor Eskridge confronts Al Gore at a climate town hall, insisting erosion, not sea-level rise, is the culprit ([07:53]-[08:39]).
  • Mayor: “Our island is disappearing, but it's because of erosion and not sea level rising.” — James Eskridge ([08:08])
  • Al Gore responds with an allegorical joke about ignoring the signs of danger, which islanders find dismissive ([09:02]).
  • Quote: “We need more than a story about drowning and going to heaven from the Vice President of the United States.” — Trenum Moore ([10:20])

5. Everyday Life and Heritage

• Weather-Driven Existence: Eskridge describes how central weather is to every aspect of island life ([11:23]).
• Crabbing Tradition & Humor: Eskridge gives a tour of his crab shanty and shares stories about local animals, humorously naming rescued kittens after conservative figures ([11:33]-[12:03]).

6. Reluctance to Embrace Climate Change as Argument for Aid

• Federal Funding Dilemma: Officials urge Eskridge to frame Tangier’s crisis as climate-driven to secure government help, but he refuses to “go along with it” for funding ([12:50]-[13:45]).
  • Quote: “I felt real dirty inside. So I stopped doing it. I said, I can't do it. I don't believe it.” — James Eskridge ([13:06]-[13:45])

7. Science and Solutions: The Limits of Seawalls

• Expert Perspective: Scientist David Schulte confirms rising water levels and predicts another two feet of sea level rise this century, which would devastate the island. Seawalls could help but are costly—$30 million or more ([13:45]-[14:13]).

8. Politics, Publicity, and Presidential Promises

• Trump’s Involvement: After the island gains attention for its pro-Trump vote, President Trump personally calls Eskridge, echoing skepticism about sea-level rise ([14:49]-[15:47]).
  • Quote: “Myself and President Trump are on the same page when he talks about America First...We need help.” — Eskridge ([14:27])
• Backlash and Mockery: News coverage and a Stephen Colbert joke bring negative attention, hate mail, and renewed local-national tension ([16:00]-[17:01]).
  • Quote: “Stephen Colbert completely blew us off. That's all right.” — Eskridge ([16:52])

9. Loss, Memory, and the Future

• Erosion Exposed: Cameron Evans shares the emotional impact of finding a casket in a now-eroded graveyard, symbolizing the island’s disappearing history ([18:08]).
  • Quote: “I was standing on a casket...I could see the ring on her finger.” — Cameron Evans ([18:08])
• Community Value: Cameron underscores the impossibility of outsiders fully grasping what’s at stake ([18:58]).
  • Quote: “Everybody knows everybody and you build memories upon those people.” — Cameron Evans ([18:58])
• Determination and Faith: Eskridge reiterates the resolve to stay and preserve Tangier’s culture and faith-based worldview ([19:20]-[19:53]).
  • Quote: “If God is finished with Tangier, then there's nothing going to keep us here. But if he still has work for us to do, then nothing's going to take us away from here.” — Eskridge ([19:53])

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Storm and Osprey Rescue ([01:21]): “We're with the mayor, headed out to rescue a baby osprey.”
• Sea Wall as Faith Fulfilled ([05:10]): “The Lord has given me. I've had a vision. And then two years later, we had the seawall dedication.” — Trenum Moore
• Climate Scepticism under Scrutiny ([08:08]): “Our island is disappearing, but it's because of erosion and not sea level rising.” — James Eskridge
• Al Gore’s Parable ([09:02]): "[Joke about the Lord sending a SUV, boat, helicopter...]" — Al Gore
• Offense at Outsider Perspective ([10:20]): “We need more than a story about drowning and going to heaven from the Vice President of the United States.” — Trenum Moore
• Reluctant to Use Climate Argument for Aid ([13:06]): “I felt real dirty inside. So I stopped doing it...I don't believe it.” — James Eskridge
• Evoking Community Value ([18:58]): “Everybody knows everybody and you build memories upon those people.” — Cameron Evans
• Faithful Resilience ([19:53]): “If God is finished with Tangier, then there's nothing going to keep us here...” — James Eskridge

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:36 – David Remnick introduces 2017’s extreme weather and links to Tangier’s crisis
• 01:21–03:02 – Osprey rescue, scene setting, and physical fragility of island
• 05:10–06:09 – Trenum Moore describes faith and the seawall’s meaning
• 07:53–09:02 – Mayor Eskridge’s CNN town hall exchange with Al Gore
• 10:07–10:20 – Moore reacts with offense to Gore’s parable
• 11:23–12:03 – Eskridge living as a crabber, humor with “conservative” cats
• 13:06 – Eskridge resists painting crisis as climate-driven for aid
• 14:13–14:49 – Scientist’s perspective, cost of seawall, plea for funding
• 15:07–17:01 – Trump phone call, backlash, national media attention
• 18:08–18:50 – Cameron Evans recounts harrowing graveyard erosion
• 19:20–19:53 – Eskridge speaks on the meaning of saving Tangier

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Conclusion

"Praying for Tangier Island" presents a nuanced and intimate portrait of a community grappling with existential threat. Through compelling voices, tense exchanges, and scenes of daily life, the episode exposes the complicated mix of faith, tradition, skepticism, and yearning underlying Tangier’s struggle—offering listeners both a microcosm of climate change politics and a moving story of resilience on a vulnerable edge of America.

Transcript

[Narrator]

This is World Trade Advance, One World.

[James Eskridge]

Observatory straight up the block for West Boulevard and make that right. I basically just think it'd be interesting to look at the emergence of a criminal economy.

[Carolyn Corman]

And also I'm always amazed that there aren't more profiles of her out there, this really subversive, strange thing in rap.

[Narrator]

Especially, and see what their lives are like on both sides of the border. From one World Trade center in Manhattan, this is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

[David Remnick]

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. 2017 has been quite a year. A horrendous year in some ways with many natural disasters, three of the worst hurricanes in memory, the worst wildfire season on record in California. And from everything climate science tells us, the future holds more frequent events like this, more severe events as the planet continues to warm. Not long ago, as Houston was scrambling to deal with destruction from Hurricane Harvey, the New Yorker's Carolyn Corman was on a small boat. She was there along with the Radio Hour Sarah Nix in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay. And there too, a storm was heading their way.

[Carolyn Corman]

We're with the mayor, headed out to rescue a baby osprey. How old do you think it is?

[Cameron Evans]

Two babies.

[Carolyn Corman]

Two babies. They're not ready to fly yet and they might be in trouble with the storm coming tomorrow. There's a big storm moving toward a low strip of land called Tangier Island. The island's mayor, James Eskridge, is moving a pair of juvenile osprey, big birds of prey that live on the water, to safety.

[James Eskridge]

There was a tire last year, almost ready to fly. We had a strong thunderstorm and when I went back to it, the birds were going. Swept them out the nest.

[Carolyn Corman]

The mare's at the wheel of his skiff. He's a tall guy, he has a big mustache and you can really see all the years he spent on the water. And his skin, it's deeply tanned, permanently windburn.

[James Eskridge]

Cameron, you want these?

[Narrator]

The osprey nest is in the harbor on a platform that's only about a yard above the water. The waves are lapping up underneath it. The mayor's brought 17 year old Cameron Evans to help him with the rescue.

[James Eskridge]

You want these thick gloves? I got a knee at these.

[Narrator]

Cameron leans out of the boat to scoop the bird up.

[James Eskridge]

Don't get clawed. Tell me when you got him. Got him. They don't think so right now, but it's further ungood.

[Carolyn Corman]

Birds aren't the only thing that could lose Their home in a big storm, the islanders could, too.

[Narrator]

The mayor pulls his boat up to the shoreline. It's really just a few inches of sand with a little bit of topsoil that's all held together by the roots of the shore grass. It's not a rocky shore.

[James Eskridge]

Yeah. This material, it's so soft. We need a shoreline like Maine's got. This was rock along here. This would be here until the Lord comes.

[Carolyn Corman]

Tangier island is not much more than one square mile, and it's shrinking rapidly. It's a third the size it was when it was first settled in the 18th century. People used to live on islands all over the bay. But now Tangier is one of only two inhabited offshore islands left. Climate change is tripling or even quadrupling the rate at which land is disappearing. And the 450 people who live here could be among the first climate change refugees in the United States.

[Narrator]

The storm's blown in, and the wind is howling through the town at 40 or 50 miles an hour. The water's high in the tidal rivers and canals that cut through the island.

[Carolyn Corman]

This morning, at high tide, around 6am, the water level was up to the floor of the house, a little house behind where we're staying. Many of the pathways across the island were covered in water, unpassable.

[Narrator]

And the wind. You can see the rain kind of coming across in sheets, like it does in coastal storms. Yes.

[Carolyn Corman]

This isn't. We're not living on a piece of dry land here.

[Narrator]

Usually, the island's narrow lanes are full of golf carts and scooters, kids tossing footballs. When the sun is shining, it's got a kind of Norman Rockwell feel. Today, everyone is staying inside.

[Carolyn Corman]

We're supposed to be on a boat back to the mainland, but the ferries aren't running. Raining hard. Was that thunder?

[Trenum Moore]

No.

[Carolyn Corman]

We're sheltering on the porch of the island's only school, K through 12. It's where Trenum Moore has been teaching high school math for 18 years. Not at all. She grew up here, she married her high school sweetheart, and she raised her own kids here.

[Trenum Moore]

Ten years ago, I had five generations living on the island. My grandmother died at 102. She was a devout Christian, and she is the one who got the vision from the Lord that we were going to get our first seawall. She stood up in church and said, the Lord has given me. I've had a vision. And then two years later, we had the seawall dedication.

[Carolyn Corman]

Nearly 30 years ago, a seawall was built on part of the western side of Tangier island, it's basically a line of huge boulders. It takes the brunt of the waves.

[Trenum Moore]

My childhood before the seawall was there, we used to mark it like, what does that mean? You would mark it, like, get big posts and like what was there last year? And all winter we would walk down there and just watch that go out to sea more.

[Carolyn Corman]

And other Tangier residents have been watching their island wash away for as long as they can remember. The difference the western seawall has made has many of them praying for a wall all the way around the island.

[Trenum Moore]

The Lord gave my grandmother a word. I don't know if the Lord gave any. The Lord's not giving me a word that we're going to get a seawall, but I am going to give that to the Lord. And if the they want to say climate change. I do believe in climate change, I really do. But I believe in what it says, like centimeters a year, we are losing feet. You can see pictures of our island from when, 20 years ago. It's half of that all the way around. The only part that hasn't been eroded in 20 year is the part with the seawall.

[Narrator]

When Moore looks at what's happening to Tangier, she sees fast acting erosion, not the climate change that's making it worse. A warming planet means more storms and stronger waves. And when saltwater floods the land like it is right now, it kills the trees, the grasses, the other vegetation that hold the sand and the topsoil together.

[Trenum Moore]

Climate change. When you read about that, isn't it like little, little, little, little pit. We're losing feet, feet, feet. And it's noticeable. Feet, feet, feet. Do I think climate change is an issue? I mean I read about in Florida, you know how they're losing parts of their land and they're like, in southern Florida they say it's because climate change. Now do I know that it's climate change? I don't know that. I'm reading it. And I'm assuming people that are smart in that area know what they're talking about. I'm not going to get into that Al Gore thing, but do I think that was handled correctly?

[Narrator]

No.

[Anderson Cooper]

We're here for a special CNN town hall on the climate crisis with former Vice President Al Gore. I'm Anderson Cooper.

[Carolyn Corman]

I want to welcome, because of what's happening on Tangier, the island has become an object lesson in climate change for some people. This summer, CNN invited James Eskridge, the mayor of Tangier, to be a part of a town hall about climate change.

[James Eskridge]

Mayor, welcome. Thank you Vice President Gore. Mr. Cooper, I'm a commercial crabber and I've been working the chesapeake bay for 50 plus years. I'm not a scientist, but I'm a keen observer. Our island is disappearing, but it's because of erosion and not sea level rising.

[Carolyn Corman]

He's wearing a checked button down shirt and a Tangier island ball cap and he looks comfortable on the set, entirely relaxed, holding the mic.

[James Eskridge]

Back to the question, why? Why am I not seeing signs of the sea level rise?

[Al Gore]

What do you think the erosion is due to?

[James Eskridge]

Mayor Wave action, storms.

[Al Gore]

Has that increased any?

[James Eskridge]

Not really.

[Al Gore]

So you're losing the island even though the waves haven't increased.

[Carolyn Corman]

Gore talked about how hard it can be to translate science into something people can understand and see. Then he told a kind of jokey story.

[Al Gore]

Reminds me a little bit of a story from Tennessee about a guy that was trapped in a flood and he was sitting on the front porch and they came by in an SUV to rescue him and he said, no, the Lord will provide. And water kept on rising. He went up to the second floor and they came by the window in a boat, said, come on, we're here to rescue. He said, nope, the Lord will provide. Then he went on up to the rooftop as the water kept rising and they came over in a helicopter and dropped a rope ladder. He said, no, Lord will provide. Well, he died in the water and went to heaven. He said, God, I thought you were going to provide. And he said, what do you mean? I sent you an suv, a boat and a helicopter and I think that what we we have heaven sent, so to speak.

[Trenum Moore]

Why would you say that to an island that's counting on God?

[Narrator]

Trynimore watched the CNN event.

[Trenum Moore]

What did that have to do with us? So we're saying that if we don't listen and agree with climate change, go ahead and stay here and drown and the Lord will provide. See what other conclusion could we come to for that joke?

[Narrator]

It could also be taken to mean that leaving the island would solve their problem or that there may be a solution other than a sea wall. But Al Gore didn't offer any suggestion about how Eskridge and the other islanders can save their community.

[Trenum Moore]

So that's why I couldn't understand why this great man and climate change to joke. I was offended. I was offended as a Christian and as a Tangierman because we need more than a story about drowning and going to heaven from the Vice President of the United States.

[Carolyn Corman]

How you see Tangier's predicament depends on where you look People who are looking for evidence of climate change see it in action on the island. People who live there watching erosion for as long as they can remember, they see erosion. If the people who are wading through floodwaters regularly still don't believe that the climate is changing, maybe that's a testament to how difficult it is for any of us to see. How much of your day, every day, do you think you spend considering the weather?

[James Eskridge]

Probably 60% of it. Yeah. Yeah. Weather is. Yeah, weather is our life. Yep.

[Carolyn Corman]

Eskridge is showing us around his crab shanty. He's got dozens of blue crabs in tanks out here.

[James Eskridge]

We bring the peeler crabs in and we dump them in these tanks. That's what my father used to do and grandfather before him.

[Carolyn Corman]

He's waiting for them to molt so he can sell them as soft shell crabs, Tangier's specialty.

[Narrator]

Oh, this one's shedding right now. And so is that one, right?

[James Eskridge]

Yeah. Yep. They're called busters.

[Narrator]

Who's this?

[James Eskridge]

This is Sam Alito.

[Narrator]

He looks like a stately old gentleman.

[James Eskridge]

Yeah. Yep.

[Carolyn Corman]

The mare's also got cats out of the shanty.

[James Eskridge]

We were having a tropical system and there was a tree stump drifting into storm and there was four kittens hanging onto it. I guess they came from the island, but I went out and picked them up and they've been here ever since. And they're a conservative group. It's Sam Alito and John Roberts, Condi Rice and Coulter.

[Carolyn Corman]

He's been working from this spot since he graduated from high school in 1976. The building is about the size of a one car garage and it's perched on pilings in the harbor. He points to those pilings and says, the high water mark is right where it's always been. And that's why he doesn't believe that climate change is causing the sea level to rise.

[James Eskridge]

We've had people coming for years about the erosion problem here. I had a lady that told me, mayor, whether you believe in climate change and sea level rise or not, go along with it because you may get funding to save your island.

[Carolyn Corman]

Who told you that?

[James Eskridge]

Some lady. Some lady told me she, you know, just visited. She had a. She was in the government. That's all I'm going to say about that. She said, go along with it, go along with it and you may get the funding you need because that's the argument of today. And after I, I did a couple interviews after that and I would mention sea level rise and climb, climate change in it, and I felt real Dirty inside. So I stopped doing it. I said, I can't do it. I don't believe it. I don't believe it. I can't do it.

[Carolyn Corman]

I spoke with a scientist named David Schulte who studied the impacts of climate change on Tangier island, and he confirmed to me that the water level is rising in the Chesapeake and that it's forecast to rise up to 2ft within this century if greenhouse gas emissions continue to increase. At its highest point, Tangier island is only 4ft above sea level.

[Narrator]

Scientists say a seawall all around the island would make it more likely that people could be living there into the next century. But it would cost, at the very least, $30 million and maybe into the hundreds of millions.

[James Eskridge]

It's a huge amount of money to us, but to the government, it's not a lot of money. Myself and President Trump are on the same page when he talks about America First. I believe in helping folks out all around the world, and we should do that. But we're right here, 50 miles from D.C. and we need help.

[Narrator]

It looked like that help might be on its way this summer when Donald Trump called the mayor. A newspot had gone out about how 90% of the Islanders voted for Trump. And Eskridge said he loved the new president like a member of his own family.

[James Eskridge]

Sure enough, he gave me a call Monday afternoon.

[Narrator]

How long was the call? What did you guys talk about?

[James Eskridge]

Maybe 10 or 12 minutes. He thanked me and the town for our support, and we discussed sea level rise. President Trump and myself were on the same page. We don't see the sea level rise as a threatening thing. I mean, myself, I don't see it happening. The changes that I'm seeing, I believe that a lot of the changes are just natural cycles, ups and downs. I mean, myself and Donald Trump talked about that. He said, you know, Tangier's been here for hundreds of years, and it'll be here for hundreds more.

[Carolyn Corman]

It's not clear what Trump meant with his reassurance that Tangier island will be here, but hundreds of years from now, and there's been no follow up since that call. But when word got out about it, Eskridge did hear from other people.

[James Eskridge]

Folks on the island were very excited, but some folks on the mainland, you know, some folks were not very happy with it. We got some hate mail and phone calls.

[Carolyn Corman]

They called him at home, at his wife's business, and at the town office. There were messages saying the people of Tangier were stupid for voting for Donald Trump. And some people said they hoped the islanders would drown. But those letters and phone calls weren't the only fallout. Later that week, Stephen Colbert brought it up on his show.

[Anderson Cooper]

Their mayor believes there is a solution to coastal erosion. They need a jetty or perhaps even a seawall around the entire island. And that Trump will cut through red tape and get them that wall. Yes, Trump is going to get them that wall and then make the ocean pay.

[James Eskridge]

Stephen Colbert. Stephen Colbert completely blew us off. That's all right. I was mentioning on Stephen Colbert publicity. I don't mind it.

[Carolyn Corman]

Although he shrugs it off, Eskridge has stepped into a hornet's nest of politics about climate change and the new president. But there is one thing that the mayor and Moore, Cameron and the scientists can all agree on.

[James Eskridge]

Oh, yeah. If we were to get up, if we were to get a hurricane to come in and get like 130 mile wind like they got in parts of Texas. Yeah, it would wipe out the whole harbor here and probably a good chunk of the island.

[Narrator]

After the storm, Eskridge and Cameron take the two juvenile osprey back to their nest. Then they stop at the north end of the island to check out what the storm's done to the coastline. There used to be other towns up here. Oyster Creek, Cannon, Reubentown. There used to be farms and houses and cemeteries. They're all long gone. Cameron comes up here to look for arrowheads that are left behind from when Native Americans hunted here.

[Cameron Evans]

But now more land has been lost and lost and it's just bringing up stuff like foundations of houses up on Cannon. Caskets will come out like caskets. Past people have been buried. When I was up there, arrowheading, I was walking where the graveyard used to be, looking around and I was standing on a casket. I saw the frame of the casket. Then I looked down and I, I saw the body. But I could see the ring on her finger. I could tell it was a woman. I was young and I had never saw a body before and that wasn't a very pretty way to see it. But it was hard to take in.

[Narrator]

Cameron's finishing high school this year. He wants to go to college and then he wants to live and work here on the island.

[Cameron Evans]

And if we do wash away, I'm really not going to have that hometown anymore to come to. Everybody knows everybody and you build memories upon those people. I know every single person on the island. I know where they live, who they're related to, their animals, their vehicles. It's harder for a person who doesn't live here to think about it. Because they're not really living it.

[James Eskridge]

It's only natural that you'd want to save your community. They say it's not enough people, but they say, you know, just leave the island and start over. But that's not easy to do. Just abandon your home and your business. When I talk about saving Tangier Island, I'm not just talking about saving the island or the land. I'm talking about saving the people, our way of life and our culture.

[Carolyn Corman]

Eskridge points out a big white cross that he's planted in the harbor. God is life is written on it.

[James Eskridge]

Some folks say, even without a seawall. They said, if God is finished with Tangier, then there's nothing going to keep us here. But if he still has work for us to do, then nothing's going to take us away from here.

[Carolyn Corman]

It's a helpful way to accept having to leave your home.

[James Eskridge]

And some folks, you know, some folks, if we don't, if we didn't get the help we need, some folks would probably, you know, abandon the island eventually and move to the mainland. But myself and some more, you know, we're going to stay here as long as possible.

[David Remnick]

James Eskridge, the mayor of Tangier, Virginia, along with Carolyn Corman and Sarah Nixon. I'm David Remnick and thanks for listening to the New Yorker Radio Hour today. I hope you'll join us next week for the writer Susan Orlean. She'll talk about her time following the trail of the skater Tonya Harding.

[James Eskridge]

You remember her.

[David Remnick]

Her story is the subject of a new movie coming out this month. Till then, look for us on Twitter. New yorkerradio.

[Narrator]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Alexis Cuadrado. This episode was produced by Alex Barron, Emily Bottin, Ave Carrillo, Rhiannon Corby, Jill Deboff, Karen Frillman, David Krasnow, Sarah Nix, Michael Rayfield, Mythali Rao and Stephen Valentino, with help from Susan Morrison, Emma Allen, Emily Mann and Jessica Henderson. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherina Endowment Fund.