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The New Yorker Radio Hour
Salsa Star Rubén Blades on Acting, Politics, and the Power of Music
00:28:42
The singer recounts his unlikely journey from a record-company mailroom to the top of the salsa charts.
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- [00:01]
Narrator/Host
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
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Narrator/Host
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Ruben Blades
Every Mazda SUV offers you an elevated driving experience and refined performance.
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David Remnick
Discover it at your local Mazda dealer today.
- [02:04]
Narrator/Host
This is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.
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David Remnick
This is the New Yorker Radio Hour I'm David Remnick. In the world of salsa music, Ruben Blades is one of the greats. His 1978 album Siembra, a word that means planting or cultivating, remains one of the best selling salsa albums of all time.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Ruben Blades, or as we call him in Latin America, Ruben Blades, though his name is actually Ruben Blades, is one of the most important figures in salsa.
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David Remnick
Graciela Mochkowski writes for the New Yorker about Latin American politics and and culture.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
He's an incredibly prolific artist, a writer, a singer, an activist, and a Hollywood actor.
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Ruben Blades
Hi, my name is Rudy Veloz, and I have this music that is going to blow you away.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
I grew up in Argentina, and he really sings for an entire people. We all feel like Blades or Blades songs are speaking about the struggles of our own countries. It's not about Panama or Latinos in New York. It's really about all of us. 45 years ago, he released his very first really big album, Siembra, that he recorded with Willie Colon, who was at the center of the salsa movement then. And it was the first album that really brought salsa outside of New York and outside of the US And Latin America to the world. Now you can, you know, there's salsa. The salsa movement is very much alive and vibrant in Israel, in Taiwan, in Japan. You know, you could say that Ruben Blades or Blades sort of did for salsa music what Bob Marley did for reggae, and he really brought it into the global consciousness.
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David Remnick
This year, Ruben Blades record Photographias is up for a Grammy Award, and should he win it, it would be his 13th Grammy. He also wrote a new song for the film Black Butterflies, which just came out, and it's vying for the Oscar for Best Animated feature. The film is about the impact of climate change, and Blade's song is called In Migrantes Immigrants. Graciela Machkowski sat down to talk with blades back in 2023 about a life in music, politics, and acting.
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Narrator/Host
Okay.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Pues en pesemos buenas tardes.
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Ruben Blades
Muy buenas tardes.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
So I always start at the beginning. So I wanted to start in 1969, when you were 21 and you came to New York City for the first time. And in that trip, you recorded what I believe was your first album from Panama to New York. The Panama Nueva York, with Pete Rodriguez and his orchestra. Let's listen for a moment to a song from that album just to get a sense of what it sounded like. So tell us about that album and.
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Ruben Blades
Where it came from as anything and most of the things in my life. It came as a result of a total unexpected occurrences. I had quit music by that time because the dean of the law school in Panama asked me if I was going to be a musician or a lawyer, because somebody saw me playing at a private house with a band called Los Alvajes del Rigmo. And the professor went and told the dean that he had seen me and that he didn't think that that was a good idea to have a student singing on the weekends.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Was this a Very conservative environment.
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Ruben Blades
It was very, very, very, very, very strict. So, anyway, then a friend of mine, there was a musician, Francisco Buckli, the first recording studio ever to have been built in Panama. Discos Yos had asked him to come with his band and perform, to make sure that everything was in its right position to record. So Bush, knowing that I sang, called me and asked me to be a part of the group. And I said, I can't do that. And he said, no, this is a private thing. There's nobody. No one's going to be there, and it's just a band. Please help us with this. And I said, well, I'll go and help. As a backup, I went. The owner of the record label had brought somebody from New York called Pancho Cristal, which was one of the biggest producers in New York at the time, to supervise the happenings. The band was, I think, three horns in the rhythm section. So eight people. One or two of the guys got lost, so they couldn't play the arrangements. So that required then improvisation. Benito Guardia, who was the piano player for Bush, said, ruben, you like, you know, let's do El Raton, which was a very popular song from Cheo Feliciano at the time. And I did it. Pancho Critel was at that moment in the cabin, and when he heard my voice, he ran out and went to me, because at that time my voice sounded very much like the sound of the voice of Jose Cho Feliciano, who was a recording star. And he was stunned. And he asked me if I ever wanted to record an album. And I said, not now, I can't do music. The thing is, he said, look, if you ever get to New York, call me. And he gave me his number. Then In Panama, in 1968, we had had the military coup, so one of the first things they did, the military did, was to close, shut down the university. My mother was very afraid that I was going to join any of the movements she was concerned that I was going to join. So she came up with this notion, like, if I wanted a holiday, I remember for my birthday, she wanted to send me to New York. And I called Pancho Cristal, that producer that I had met the year before. And then he said, oh, yeah, come over and I'll record you. Then we recorded this basically salsa album. And that's how this album got done. I left New York, went back to Panama. The university was reopened. I went back to law school.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
And you finished your degree there?
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Ruben Blades
I finished my degree. I never got involved in music again. Until the album came out, I believe in 1970.
- [09:18]
Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Yes.
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Ruben Blades
I didn't even know about it when it came out.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
It didn't come out in Panama. It only came out here in Panama.
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Ruben Blades
It was released in Panama, you know. The first song of the album was a song I had written about a guerrilla fighter who is murdered by the army.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Juan Gonzalez.
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Ruben Blades
Juan Gonzalez. So I thought, in order not to be arrested, I thought I can deflect the whole notion by saying that these events were occurring in a mythical place. So I said, like Torre Acevan, cuchar etaba ing echo ficticio. You know, this is all fiction. I'm doing this. This is fiction. If this looks like Che Guevara, it's just a coincidence.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
So you didn't settle in New York then, as you said, you came back to Panama, you got your law degree, but you ended up coming back to the US in 1973 to flourish where your parents died. 74.
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Ruben Blades
My father was accused of by Noriega, who was then a colonel. He was accused by Manuel Antonio Norega, my father being involved in a plot to kill him. So my family. My mother took my family.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Was that the truth?
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Ruben Blades
I don't think so. I don't think it was the truth. But my father was a detective. He was working with the dea. DEA had just started. So the DEA was using my father in Panama as a contact and investigator because my father was one of the few Panamanian detectives who spoke English. And so the fact that I think the DEA was closing in on Noriega made him want to get rid of it. So in 1974, I graduated from law school. I was working with people in jail at the time. I finished my thesis, I presented it, and I was approved. And I decided to leave because I see no point of being a lawyer under a military dictatorship. So I went to Florida and my family was having a lot of trouble. My mother was working in Florida. My father could not get a job. I had three small brothers. My diploma was not accepted by the Florida bar. So I didn't know what to do. I felt useless. I didn't know what to do. And then all of a sudden I thought of calling Fania Records, which was the biggest salsa label at the time.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
A great begin for Lady.
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Ruben Blades
And I called and I offered myself as a writer and a singer. And they said no to both. And then I said, well, do you have any jobs? And then they said, well, as a matter of fact, we just had an opening today and the mail office. And I said, well, what does that Mean, with what other chores? They explained it to me and I said, I'll take it. But when Barreto. Barreto's band broke for the second time, Tito Allen, a wonderful, great local singer, left the band. Barreto had to find another singer. So somebody told him that I sang. And then he came to the mailroom to ask me if it was true that I sang. And then he sort of interrogated me for like a while, for like an hour, like, trying to understand what it was that I was doing there. And finally he gave me a date for an audition and I went. He hired Tito Gomez, who had been working with La Sonora Poncena at Papa Luca in Puerto Rico. Excellent singer, Tito. And he hired me as well. So he had two singers, in case that one singer left, the other one was still there.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Right. And this is how you started, really, here.
- [13:22]
Ruben Blades
That's how I started full time as a musician in 1974 or 75, I'm not sure.
- [13:27]
Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Right from the start, you were politically engaged and you sang about political topics. You talk about. You were writing poems about what was happening in Panama when you were in high school. And Juan Gonzalez, the song you referred to in your first album, is about the death of Aguerilla Agueriro. Pablo Pueblo from 1977 is about this poor man who comes home and tired and hopeless after working all day. The politicians he voted for have never made his life better. Here's a bit of Pablo Pueblo for those who haven't heard it. So you've written song about class, about the struggles of people, about dictatorships and revolutions, about the in Latin America, et cetera. But you've always rejected the label of political singer or protest singer. And you've never want to be seen as somebody who sings political songs.
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Narrator/Host
Why?
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Ruben Blades
Because political songs are propaganda by definition. If you start singing about political ideology, you're not an artist, you're doing propaganda. Basically, I try to be as close to a newspaper person as I can. Of course, you can't really say that you're objective by writing songs that reflect a point of view. You have a point of view, but you can be balanced. And you have to be careful in how you write it so it doesn't become a lie. And basically, what I thought at the time was that music, especially salsa music, was creating what did not exist at the time. And I did not see it at the time, which was this excuse or this vehicle for total strangers to meet and all of a sudden share a common ground. So imagine that incredible possibility of having all these people who come from all these different walks of life in one place. Okay, so you can dance. Well, let's think too. Enhance the experience you're having right now, which is of contact. You're touching a total stranger to you in sometimes intimate ways because it's a contact dance. And all of a sudden, now I'm talking to you about a priest that was killed. Or I'm talking to you about your mother that died of cancer. Or I'm talking to you about the girlfriend that went away because you were black and she was white. Or I'm going to talk to you about the gay guy who doesn't dare to say that he's gay because he may have reprisals. Some people had never heard songs that touched politics or political aspects before. And some of them got very upset with me because they called me a communist because I was, like, not using music only to escape. And they wrongly interpreted the direction of my criticism and ascribe it to a political ideology, which really pissed me off because I was always trying not to go there.
- [17:09]
Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
I was remembering Charlie Garcia, you know, the Argentine boxer.
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Ruben Blades
Oh, yes, I do.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
He once said he was, you know those questions, what advice would you give to young artists or young musicians? And he said that the only piece of advice he had was to not make compromises at the start because people always thought that you had to compromise at the beginning to be able to be famous. But he said, by the time you're famous, you're going to be. You're not going to be able to walk out of that box. It's too late.
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Ruben Blades
Absolutely. Very smart. My goal from the beginning was not to be famous, to become famous or rich. My goal from the beginning was to communicate, to present a position and create a conversation.
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David Remnick
Singer Ruben Blades talking with Graciela Mochkovski. This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. Stick around.
- [18:08]
Narrator/Host
Hi, I'm Rebecca Ford, senior awards correspondent at Vanity Fair and co host of Little Gold Men. Oscar season is upon us. Little Gold Men takes you behind the scene scenes of the race for the biggest prize in Hollywood.
- [18:22]
Ruben Blades
There's 100 wrestlers in the room, but only one can be Oscar nominated.
- [18:28]
Narrator/Host
Whether you're a movie lover or an industry buff, Little Gold Men from Vanity Fair has everything you need to know about this year's Oscar race. Follow and listen to Little Gold Men wherever you get your podcasts.
- [18:47]
David Remnick
This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. We'll continue now with the salsa legend Ruben Blades, who's talking here in 2023 with contributor Graciela Mochkowski. Blades is now up for his 13th Grammy Award, and he has a song featured in the film Black Butterflies, which is potentially up for an Oscar this year. It's about refugees fleeing the impact of climate change. That kind of socially aware songwriting has been a hallmark of Ruben Blade's career. And in his over 50 years of making records, he's often looked for ways to push the bounds of what he was doing musically as well.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
So let's talk about jazz. So I attended your performance in 2014 with Wynton Marsalis at Jazz at Lincoln Center.
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Ruben Blades
Yeah, it was great.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
That was great. I remember at the beginning it was mostly jazz, and then you started singing some of your classics, and then all these people who had been restless in their rooms, they just finally could dance, and so everybody just jumped off their seats and started dancing on the sides of the aisles. It was wonderful. But I believe that was the. And correct me if I'm wrong, but if I understand it correctly, that was the origin of Salzwing, this project of three albums that you recorded in 2021 with Roberto Delgado, the Panamanian big band leader.
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Ruben Blades
One day when my years grow old and the world gets cold I will feel the glow Just thinking of you and the way you.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
It's so gorgeous. It's always so joyful.
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Ruben Blades
But the thing, again, to bring it into context, my father is a gambling man, so one day he showed up in the house with. With a record player. It was the biggest record player I've ever seen. And. And with the record player, it came some albums. And these albums were some of the songs that I picked. When I did the South Swing, there was an album. There was a Tony Bennett record. There was, of course, a Sinatra album, There was a Sammy Davis Jr album. So I learned to sing on top of the records, and that's why I lost my accent singing. And as a matter of fact, I learned how to breathe because I started mimicking Sinatra so that I could. I ended up learning how to breathe just by following what he was doing in his records. But the point is that the jazz Latin connection is an old one, right? It's a very old one. In Panama, you have from Luis Russell, that ended up being Louis Armstrong's band leader, Danilo Perez, who played with Wayne Shorter. So Carlos Enriquez is the bass player for Wynton Marcellus's Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra. Approached me to say, you know, would you like to do some shows with us? And we did, and it worked.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
At one point, between 2004 and 2009, you interrupted again, your Career as a musician for those, what, five years to take on the role of Minister of Tourism in Panama. This was after you had run for president of Panama in 1994, which you didn't win, obviously. And when you came back from Panama, you took on an acting role in Fear the Walking Dead, a post apocalyptic TV series. The spinoff of the Walking Dead.
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Ruben Blades
Yes.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
And you said that was. You did it as a way to go back to relevancy. You said people were asking, is he dead? Yeah, I don't know if that's true, but.
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Ruben Blades
No, it is true.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Is it?
- [22:38]
Ruben Blades
Sure.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
And then. So this was not your first acting role. You've acted in like 30 movies and you've been in Hollywood for a long time. But I wanted you to talk a little bit about this decision to be a killer in a zombie movie as a way to go back to popular.
- [22:55]
Ruben Blades
There were many things. I mean, one of them was I went back to public service because it was a way to, I hope, to inspire the young in my country, Panama, to become involved in politics. Most people don't think, at least in Panama, to become involved in politics because they consider that it's corrupt and it's horrible. And I tell them it's corrupt and horrible because people like us don't participate. You have to eliminate the space for the corruption. For five years, I didn't do any singing or writing or touring or doing movies or anything. For five years I just stayed in the public service. I did not want to go first to be a Minister of tourism. I wanted to work in the correctional system in Panama because that's what I had been involved with when I was in law school. The president felt that I would be more helpful in an area that was going to contribute to the national gross product. And they needed somebody there that can push it forward. But anyway, once I left Panama, not having recorded and not having done anything, I didn't even have an agent anymore. I needed work. But it wasn't just the fact that people were going like, where is he? But it was also like I was thinking in more practical ways as well. For instance, to get the medical insurance of screen actors guilt. So I ended up being offered a role. And what attracted me to the role was that it was a total opposite of me. It was a guy who had worked with the death squads in Salvador, Daniel Salazar. Daniel Salazar. So that when the event occurred and deaf people were rising and. And killing living people for reasons that have never been totally explained. And the thing is that his skills ended up becoming the thing to have to survive in this new apocalyptic world. And it provided me with that access not just to audiences in this country, but also worldwide. So all of a sudden you have somebody in Nigeria that maybe doesn't know about perro, Navajo, and all of a sudden goes like, oh, Daniel Salazar sings.
- [25:24]
Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
I didn't know that you've run for president in Panama, but how about your political participation here in the US I.
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Ruben Blades
Wouldn'T do it here because I would have to be a citizen.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Oh, you're still not.
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Ruben Blades
I am not a citizen. I'm a resident. Because if I had become a citizen, then I could not participate in politics in Panama.
- [25:42]
Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Of course. Right. You said that coming back to the US that Latinos have no political power to speak of because we act like tribes and we don't identify as one people. What did you mean by that?
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Ruben Blades
Basically, you know, it's again, an interesting scenario. When you think about Latin America, you think about really the world. You know, in Latin America you have white, black, brown. You can't really say that one group represents all groups, because it's not true. So that's one very important difference. The second is that people who, like myself, ended up in this country came running from dictatorship or a scenario where we didn't have opportunities. When people arrive to the United States, most people don't want to talk about politics. They feel, you know what, I'm not going to rock the boat and I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to be quiet. So as a result of that, we don't have the political representation and, or power or, and, or recognition. We're not even considered in films.
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Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
I think it's 4% of all acting roles that are played by Latinos.
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Ruben Blades
But then when you go and see who goes most to the movies, Latinos who eat more popcorn, Latinos, you know, drink more soda. Well, if we're the top ones and going to the movies, we're sure eating more popcorn than anybody. But I'm saying, where are we? When are we gonna break away from the roles of narcotrafican, a maid, illegal alien, hoodlum, you know.
- [27:21]
Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
So do you feel that you were able to break away from that?
- [27:25]
Ruben Blades
I was able to say no. And I lost. I'll never forget, I lost a role in a movie called Q and A. And I turned it down because it was a drug dealer. And as a career move, it was not a wise move because if I had done that role, which was a lead, I maybe would have been seen for something else. But I could Say no, because I had the music. I'm not turning. I'm not criticizing those who need to work because they need to support themselves. I had an option that was brought to me by music, so I said no.
- [28:04]
Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
So my second question about staying relevant, you do a lot of collaboration with young, not just across genres, but also with people who are much younger and with much shorter careers. So you play with Cagetrese, with Natalia La Furcade. I love your song with Natalia La Furcade. And if you ask my son, who is 12, about Ruben Vlades, he will tell you that Vlades is the guy who played with Stay Homas during the pandemic. Stay Homas from Stay Home, in case people don't know what we're talking about, was a group created during the COVID 19 lockdown in Barcelona. Three guys who play on their rooftop and invited artists to play with them via their cell phones. So all my son's friends, those kids were listening to them on YouTube.
- [29:06]
Ruben Blades
I thought they were great melodically. I love where they go. They're very good musicians on their own, right? So then through the. Through the net, I sent a message. Hey, guys, I'd love to do something with you. And then they called me. I saw him again and I sang with them live in the festival in Barcelona.
- [29:45]
Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
Oh, that's great.
- [29:45]
Ruben Blades
At 25,000 people. Which is. Which is something. Again, I'm going like, this kid's going from being in a rooftop, singing with a glass and with a. A can, right? To all of a sudden, 25,000 people. Their tour was bigger than mine.
- [30:04]
Interviewer/Graciela Mochkowski
That's great.
- [30:07]
Ruben Blades
Thank you all for listening.
- [30:15]
David Remnick
Ruben Blades record Photographias is nominated for a Grammy Award. He spoke back in 2023 with Graciela Maczkowski, who is a contributing writer at the New Yorker. She's also the dean of the journalism school at the City University of New York. I'm David Remnick. Happy New Year from all of us at the New Yorker Radio Hour. See you next time.
- [30:41]
Narrator/Host
The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell and Jared Paul. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul and Ursula Sommer, with guidance from Emily Bottin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Barsch, Victor Gwan and Alejandra Decken. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Cherina Endowment Fund.
- [31:21]
David Remnick
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