Podcast Summary: “St. Vincent’s Seduction”

The New Yorker Radio Hour
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Annie Clark (St. Vincent)
Date: October 13, 2017

Overview

This episode features a candid, wide-ranging conversation between host David Remnick and musician Annie Clark, known professionally as St. Vincent. The discussion centers on St. Vincent’s new album, “Masseduction,” delving into its creative process, emotional themes, and Clark’s evolving relationship with her art, guitar, and personal life. Alongside musical interludes and personal reflections, Clark discusses mental health, the transformative power of art, and her forays into filmmaking.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Concept and Creation of "Masseduction"

• Album as Thesis:
  Clark views the title track, “Masseduction,” as encapsulating the themes and characters of the whole record.
  • [02:44] Annie Clark: “It's more or less kind of like a thesis. It contains all the characters that you meet on the album.”
• Themes Explored:
  Clark describes the album as an exploration of power, both alluring and destructive.
  • [03:07] Annie Clark: “I would say it's an exploration of power and the rosy sides of power, you know, and also the really the grim sides … the kinds of things that can have a total hold over you, be it, you know, drugs or sex…”
• Personal Experience:
  The album was born out of a tumultuous, transformative three-year period in Clark’s life, marked by periods of “monastic aloneness” and intense self-discipline.
  • [04:46] Annie Clark: “I just needed everything but the most vital things for creativity to just go away.”

2. Mental Health and Coping through Creativity

• Anxiety and Depression:
  Clark openly discusses her history with anxiety and depression and turning to creativity as a coping mechanism.
  • [05:54] Annie Clark: “I’ve been a really anxious person since I was a kid... that’s helped me because I sought ways to cope with it creatively...”
• On the Song “Pills”:
  She addresses reliance on medication for mental health and the duality of embracing and rejecting pharmacological solutions.
  • [07:10] Annie Clark: “I was working so much that ... I was certainly relying on more pills than I should have been taking to deal with anxiety and depression. But I’m not anti...antidepressant by any means.”

3. Artistic Evolution: From Guitar Virtuoso to Sonic Experimenter

• Changing Sounds, Expanding Palettes:
  Clark reflects on her reputation as a guitar “shredder” and purposeful movement toward new sonic territories, favoring discomfort and disruption over traditional virtuosity.
  • [10:26] Annie Clark: “I want [the guitar] to be like a perverse tornado ... to be the one thing that comes in and disrupts the scene completely.”
• Roots & Learning:
  Despite formal training (Berklee School of Music) and an accomplished musical family, Clark credits much of her style to early influences and experimentation.
  • [11:19] Annie Clark: “I feel like I’ve been coasting on the things I learned when I kind of first started playing guitar when I was watching my uncle play.”

4. The Role and Power of Art

• Empathy Through Art:
  Clark shares that reading books like “Black Like Me” and hearing music like Nirvana’s “Nevermind” as a child deeply shaped her, underscoring her belief in the capacity of art to change hearts and minds.
  • [15:09] Annie Clark: “All of these things are empathy exercises. And at its best, that's what art is... Music, theater, film... change people's minds and make them more human...”
• Childhood Encounters:
  Discussing hearing “Nevermind” at age 8 or 9:
  • [16:22] Annie Clark: “...the kind of purge of that fear through Kurt Cobain and Nevermind ... said to me, you’re not alone... you have a tribe.”

5. Performing and Transcendence

• The Nature of Live Performance:
  Clark explains the balance between structure and spontaneity on tour, comparing herself to an actor tasked with both precision and emotional surrender.

  • [19:54] Annie Clark: “...you need to be able to say your lines, you need to remember them… it’s not about you and it's not about your experience...it's about the audience's experience.”
  • [21:08] Annie Clark: “Sometimes I'm so in it and I'm reliving every moment... and then sometimes I am totally disassociated.”

• On The Nirvana Tribute:
  Clark recalls singing for Nirvana at their Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction, describing the experience as “transcendent” yet emotionally complicated.

  • [19:10] Annie Clark: (On what she felt on stage) “Something like transcendence. Something like it.”

6. Branching into Filmmaking

• Directorial Debut:
  Clark describes being drawn to directing by taking on a horror-comedy short, motivated by the desire to do things that scare her.
  • [21:48] Annie Clark: “My ethos in life is to do things that are scary. And, you know, luckily for me, most things are scary. So I do a lot of things.”
• “The Picture of Dorian Gray”:
  St. Vincent is working on a modern, gender-swapped adaptation of Oscar Wilde’s novel, relishing collaboration with screenwriter David Burke.
  • [23:55] Annie Clark: “I was approached by Lionsgate about being involved in an adaptation of Dorian Gray, but this time with a female protagonist and set in ... modern times. And I said ... only if I can work with David Burke, who wrote Elle... I’m totally obsessed with Elle...”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[The album] contains all the characters that you meet on the album. It's...like a graduate thesis.”
  — Annie Clark [02:44]
• “Otherwise just depression would take its jaws and just swallow me completely.”
  — Annie Clark [05:33]
• “I'm not anti-antidepressant by any means... those things have really helped me at certain times.”
  — Annie Clark [07:10]
• “I want [the guitar] to be like a perverse tornado... I want it to be... uncomfortable.”
  — Annie Clark [10:26]
• “All of these things are empathy exercises. And at its best, that's what art is... that art, music, theater, film... make them more human and remind them of their humanity and thus the humanity of others.”
  — Annie Clark [15:09]
• “I felt like I just sort of pulled [the song New York] out of the ether more or less fully formed, and was like, thank you. Thanks for that.”
  — Annie Clark [13:47]
• “Performing night after night... you need to be able to say your lines... it’s about the audience’s experience.”
  — Annie Clark [19:54]
• “My ethos in life is to do things that are scary. And, you know, luckily for me, most things are scary. So I do a lot of things.”
  — Annie Clark [21:48]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:29 – 03:44: Discussion of the album “Masseduction,” its title, and overarching themes
• 04:10 – 06:29: Annie Clark on isolation, personal struggles, and mental health
• 07:06 – 08:17: The role of medication and the meaning behind the song “Pills”
• 09:25 – 11:43: Musical evolution, relationship to the guitar, and influence of her uncle
• 13:39 – 14:39: Creative process behind the song “New York”
• 15:09 – 17:17: The transformative and empathic power of art, childhood musical influences
• 18:13 – 19:54: Performing with Nirvana, transcendence on stage
• 21:35 – 23:54: Exploration of film projects, especially a modern adaptation of “Dorian Gray”

Episode Highlights

• Intimate exploration of St. Vincent’s anxieties, coping mechanisms, and the redemptive power of creativity.
• Insights into the deliberate craft and thesis-like intent behind the album “Masseduction.”
• Unique perspective on performance: balancing artfulness, the needs of the audience, and personal emotion.
• St. Vincent’s willingness to push into new creative territory—both musically and as a filmmaker—by embracing what scares her.

For fans and newcomers alike, this episode offers a revealing look at the mind of a boundary-pushing artist facing personal and creative crossroads, punctuated by insightful conversation and musical moments.