The A.C.L.U. v. Trump 2.0 - The New Yorker Radio Hour

Summary

Podcast Summary: The A.C.L.U. v. Trump 2.0 The New Yorker Radio Hour, Hosted by David Remnick Release Date: February 14, 2025

Introduction

In the episode titled "The A.C.L.U. v. Trump 2.0," David Remnick engages in a comprehensive discussion with Anthony Romero, the Executive Director of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). Romero, who has led the ACLU since September 2001, provides insights into the organization's legal battles against the Trump administration's policies during its second term.

The Rubicon: Approaching a Constitutional Crisis

[01:34] Anthony Romero: "I think we could very well be there. We're at the Rubicon."

Romero explains that the term "Rubicon" signifies a potential constitutional crisis arising from the Trump administration's possible defiance of judicial orders. This crisis hinges on whether the administration will respect judicial authority or openly disregard court mandates.

Key Legal Battles

Birthright Citizenship

[04:50] David Remnick: "What stands between us and the ruination of the Constitution is the conscience of good people."

The ACLU has filed lawsuits aimed at repealing birthright citizenship, a cornerstone established by the 14th Amendment. Romero highlights the profound repercussions of such an action, including the potential for hundreds of thousands of individuals to lose their citizenship status.

[05:54] Anthony Romero: "If we are allowed to repeal birthright citizenship, it means even lawful residents' children could lose their citizenship."

Immigration and Executive Orders

Romero discusses the administration's attempts to defund gender-affirming health care and alter immigration policies. The ACLU's efforts focus on challenging these executive orders through litigation, emphasizing the protection of civil liberties.

The Role of Judges and the Supreme Court

[03:18] Anthony Romero: "It's judges. The judges are the front line right now."

Romero underscores the pivotal role that the judiciary plays in maintaining constitutional integrity. He expresses concern over the Supreme Court's conservative shift and its potential impact on upholding or undermining civil liberties.

Family Separation and Immigration Policies

[28:22] Anthony Romero: "The biggest victories had to do with family separation."

One of the ACLU's significant achievements was halting the Trump administration's family separation policy, which aimed to deter immigration through harsh measures. This victory was marked by bipartisan support and public pressure leading to the policy's reversal.

Gender-Affirming Health Care for Minors

[23:53] Anthony Romero: "It's clear fear mongering of a community under assault."

The ACLU is actively challenging executive orders that restrict gender-affirming care for transgender minors. Romero emphasizes that the organization advocates for such care in collaboration with parents, ensuring that minors are supported within the legal framework.

Free Speech and Social Media Platforms

[26:05] Anthony Romero: "The same principles apply."

Romero addresses concerns regarding free speech on social media platforms, particularly in the context of billionaires like Elon Musk managing these spaces. The ACLU maintains that government should not regulate private speech, upholding free expression rights.

Past Victories and Defeats

[28:17] Anthony Romero: "Building of the wall was a hard case."

While the ACLU has celebrated victories in cases like preventing family separations and safeguarding the US Census, challenges remain, such as litigation against the misuse of federal funds for border walls—an area where the ACLU acknowledges the complexity and difficulty of opposing established government powers.

Current Challenges and Future Strategies

[32:42] Anthony Romero: "Knuckling under in advance."

Romero discusses the rapid succession of executive orders and the strategic response required by the ACLU. The organization is collaborating with various allies, including Democracy Forward and Planned Parenthood, to effectively counteract the administration's policies through coordinated legal actions.

[33:32] Anthony Romero: "We have to play this game smartly, and we are picking and choosing our battles."

Recognizing the intensity and speed of the current political climate, the ACLU emphasizes the importance of strategic litigation, resource management, and sustained advocacy to protect civil liberties over the long term.

Conclusion

Anthony Romero conveys a blend of concern and resilience in facing the Trump administration's legal challenges. He remains optimistic about the ACLU's capacity to uphold constitutional values through persistent legal efforts and public advocacy, despite the formidable obstacles ahead.

[35:12] David Remnick: "Anthony Romero, thank you very much."

The episode concludes with Romero reaffirming the ACLU's commitment to defending civil liberties and navigating the complexities of contemporary political and legal battles.

This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who have not listened to the full podcast.

Transcript

Unknown Announcer (0:04)

Listener support WNYC Studios this is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker.

David Remnick (0:18)

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. In Donald Trump's first term in office, the American Civil liberties union, the ACLU, filed 434 lawsuits against the administration. They included suits against the so called Muslim ban and family separation at the border and many more. There is no telling how many lawsuits they will file in a second Donald Trump administration. The Executive Director of the ACLU is Anthony Romero. Romero has held the job since 2001. September 2001, to be exact. He started in the role just a few days before the September 11th attack. Romero has done the job under four presidents. Since Donald Trump's second inauguration, the ACLU has filed suits to block executive orders ending birthright citizenship, defunding gender affirming health care, and much more. I spoke with Anthony Romero last week. Let's begin with the most essential question, legal and political. Are we less than a month into the Trump administration, the second Trump administration, on the brink of a constitutional crisis?

Anthony Romero (1:34)

I think we could very well be there. We're at the Rubicon. Whether we've crossed it is yet to be determined.

David Remnick (1:40)

Well, describe what the Rubicon is. What is the Rubicon?

Anthony Romero (1:44)

The Rubicon is the flagrant abuse of judicial power. If the Trump administration decides to run the gauntlet and openly defy a judicial order in a way that is not about an appeal, it's not about clarifying, it's not about getting a congressional fix, but an open defiance to a judicial order, then I think we're there.

David Remnick (2:07)

What are the issues where that's a possibility?

Anthony Romero (2:09)

Well, there are 40 cases, David. There have been a bunch of lawsuits around the Doge and whether or not the Doge and Elon Musk have overextended their power.

David Remnick (2:17)

This is the Department of Government Efficiency led by Elon Musk.

Anthony Romero (2:20)

Exactly. There are some who say that they're violating the Privacy act, that they're accessing personal identifiable information on American citizens, their Social Security numbers, their tax returns, all sorts of information that are in the government data banks. Now, whether or not they've actually accessed that, whether there's harm, whether or not the individuals who are bringing cases have standing. Those are all to be determined by the judges. But there are about four cases, I think, that have been filed there thus far. Then there's all the questions around shutting down or the closure of grants from the federal government, from USAID and other agencies.