The New Yorker Radio Hour – "The Alabama Fallout, and Louise Erdrich on the Future"
Date: December 15, 2017
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Amy Davidson Sorkin, Jim Gaffigan, Louise Erdrich, Kristen Roupenian

Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour explores two main threads:

1. The political reverberations from Democrat Doug Jones's victory in Alabama’s Senate race, discussed with political columnist Amy Davidson Sorkin, including ramifications for the Republican Party and President Trump.
2. A conversation with acclaimed novelist Louise Erdrich about her new dystopian novel, "Future Home of the Living God", the place of Native American literature, and contemporary threats to Native American women. Additional features include comedic interludes by Jim Gaffigan and a reading from the viral New Yorker story "Cat Person" by Kristen Roupenian.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Fallout from the Alabama Senate Election

(Amy Davidson Sorkin with David Remnick, 00:33–11:56)

• Significance of Doug Jones’s Win

  • Analyzed as part of a broader pattern of Democratic wins (New Jersey, Virginia).
  • Unsettles assumptions about Republican dominance in deep-red states.
  • Questioned whether the election was a true turning point for Trump’s presidency and for Republican leaders.

• Trump’s Role and Party Dynamics

  • Trump responded to the loss by distancing himself and claiming prescience:
    • “He basically said, I predicted it. The message of this was that I was right all along." —Amy Davidson Sorkin (01:19)
  • The moment revealed how “docile he can make Republican leaders and how much the mechanisms of the party are indeed in his hands.” (01:54)

• Voters’ Moral Calculus & Fake News

  • Many voters justified support for Roy Moore despite serious allegations, prioritizing issues like abortion.
  • "They didn’t believe it, or they believed it, or they sort of believed it, or they thought maybe there was some version of it." —Amy Davidson Sorkin (03:29)
  • Jones’s refusal to back down on reproductive rights was notable in the Alabama context (04:02).

• Toleration of Egregious Behavior in Politics

  • The readiness of party structures to support “wildly eccentric” or compromised candidates was highlighted (04:35).
  • “If there’s a political party whose only standard is we didn’t do that, then you’re not very far along.” —Amy Davidson Sorkin (05:29)

• Democratic Party and Al Franken’s Resignation

  • Explored the complexity and motivations behind pushing Al Franken out of the Senate.
    • “What you ideally want is for the voters to have the chance to push people out as the employers. … But if you know that you don’t have your party’s support and you don’t have the support of your colleagues, then you do think, as a politician…” —Amy Davidson Sorkin (05:52)
  • Franken's ousting was, in part, “proxy” for dealing with the party’s “unfinished business with Bill Clinton” and the legacy of mishandled sexual misconduct allegations (07:56).

• Changing Understanding of Power and Sexual Misconduct

  • Referencing Dale Bumpers’ quote during the Clinton impeachment:
    • "When somebody tells you it’s not about sex, it’s about sex.”
  • Erdrich highlights now, "when people say, now it’s not about sex, what they often mean is that the sex itself is not about sex. It’s about violence, it’s about power, it’s about misuse of power." —Amy Davidson Sorkin (08:48)

• Path to Substantive Change

  • Real changes must come via the ballot box and by “levying a political cost.”
  • The need for more women in power and for transparency/disruption of the closed culture of Congress.
  • “If it keeps seeming so seedy, who are the congressmen in 20 years gonna be? Who is that? … Is that what you would aspire to as a career? And if not, who’s gonna be running the country?” —Amy Davidson Sorkin (11:37)

2. Comedic Interlude: Jim Gaffigan at the Symphony

(Jim Gaffigan, 12:23–17:05)

• Gaffigan humorously narrates his internal monologue while trying to enjoy a classical concert, riffing on when to clap, orchestra politics, the viability of conductors, and relationships with musicians.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “I’m a grown man and I don’t know when to clap.” (12:25)
  • “You think for what these tickets cost, the seats would at least be comfortable.” (12:48)
  • Riffing on instruments and concert etiquette, Gaffigan brings a comic relief to the episode’s weightier themes.

3. Louise Erdrich on Storytelling, Identity, and Dystopia

(Louise Erdrich with David Remnick, 17:50–28:25)

• On Storytelling as Addiction

  • Erdrich compares writing to addiction:
    • “It really began when my other addictions failed. … I could have addictions that didn’t give me, really, a hangover or actually addictions that helped me in life.” —Louise Erdrich (18:34)

• Navigating Native American Identity

  • On “representing” as a Native writer:
    • “As a Native American person, you can’t do that. … You have to tell people who you are.” (20:13–20:44)
  • The obligation to openly establish tribal background due to non-Native writers appropriating identity.

• Early Literary Success

  • Amid her first novels’ critical acclaim, Erdrich juggled new motherhood:
    • “I just had my baby, Persia. She’d just been born, and I was pregnant again, and that book came out.” (21:29)
  • Reflects on the impossibility of managing career and young children: “I think I must have been really losing my mind most of the time, because you can’t do that.” (22:05)

• Themes of “Future Home of the Living God”

  • The novel features Ojibwe characters struggling in a near-future America facing ecological collapse and government detainment of pregnant women.
  • Erdrich notes the book’s origins 16 years prior, inspired partly by then-contemporary as well as classic dystopian novels (e.g., Atwood’s "The Handmaid’s Tale", P.D. James’s "Children of Men", Ursula K. Le Guin’s works).
    • “I hope it can be read in some ways as an homage…” (24:19)

• Resurfacing an Old Manuscript

  • Shares the story of the unfinished manuscript being rescued from a Jetson-era iMac and then an iCube, underscoring the messy relationship writers have with technology and old drafts (25:08–25:57).

• Violence Against Native Women

  • The reality of Native women’s vulnerability to violence and sexual assault shaped the novel, as it did her previous book "The Roundhouse":
    • “American Indians are two and a half times more likely to experience sexual assault crimes compared to other races…” —David Remnick (26:05)
    • “Most of those crimes are committed by non-natives. … The jurisdictional issues are so arcane…” —Louise Erdrich (26:26–27:11)

• Tribal Justice and Political Obstacles

  • Erdrich laments eroding tribal autonomy in handling crimes on reservation land, noting the steep odds for reform (27:11–27:32).

• Trump’s Antagonism Towards Native Americans

  • Discussed Trump’s historic adversarial stance on Native casino rights and his racially insensitive remarks.
    • “If I remember right, I think I might have more Indian blood in me than a lot of those so-called Indians that are trying to open up the reservations.” —Trump, paraphrased by Remnick (27:57)
    • Erdrich’s response: “Oh, my God. … We don’t want Donald’s attention. … It’s all bad attention.” (28:05–28:25)

4. "Cat Person": A Viral Story on Modern Power and Consent

(Kristen Roupenian, 29:16–32:30)

• The episode closes with a reading from "Cat Person," the breakout New Yorker story exploring the fraught territory of casual dating, desire, discomfort, and the complex navigation of consent.

• Selected Passage (30:10+)

  • Illustrates the unsettling interior thoughts of the protagonist, Margot, as she faces a difficult sexual encounter.

• Cultural Impact

  • “It quickly became our most read piece of fiction online ever, and it spawned half a dozen think pieces in other publications.” —David Remnick (29:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Trump’s Influence:

  • “How docile he can make Republican leaders and how much the mechanisms of the party are indeed in his hands.”
    —Amy Davidson Sorkin (01:54)

• On Morality and Politics:

  • “If there’s a political party whose only standard is we didn’t do that, then you’re not very far along.”
    —Amy Davidson Sorkin (05:29)

• On Women in Politics:

  • “There needs to be more women who are elected. There needs to be a political cost to each party for all of that.”
    —Amy Davidson Sorkin (10:13)

• On the Burden of Native Identity:

  • “As a Native American person, you can’t do that. … You have to tell people who you are.”
    —Louise Erdrich (20:13–20:44)

• On Dystopian Fiction and Influence:

  • “I hope it can be read in some ways as an homage [to The Handmaid’s Tale] … and also Children of Men, the P.D. James novel. Sure, yeah. And to Ursula Le Guin…”
    —Louise Erdrich (24:19)

• On Violence Against Native Women:

  • “Most of those crimes are committed by non-natives. … The jurisdictional issues are so arcane…”
    —Louise Erdrich (26:26–27:11)

• On Trump’s Attitude Toward Native Rights:

  • “We don’t want Donald’s attention. … It’s all bad attention.”
    —Louise Erdrich (28:08)

Structure & Flow

• The episode opens with a sharp, analytical conversation on the current political landscape post-Alabama upset, focusing on voter psychology and party ethics.
• Comic relief is offered through Jim Gaffigan’s stream-of-consciousness at the symphony.
• The focus then turns to literature, with Louise Erdrich’s engaging and candid discussion providing both personal and societal context for her new novel and ongoing injustices facing Native Americans.
• The episode closes with an evocative fiction reading that encapsulates contemporary anxieties around dating, communication, and autonomy.

This summary captures the critical subjects, tone, and key remarks of the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners or readers seeking insight into the show’s most substantial moments and arguments.