The Long-Distance Con, Part 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: The New Yorker Radio Hour – "The Long-Distance Con, Part 2"

Host: David Remnick | Date: October 9, 2018
Produced by: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

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Overview

In Part 2 of "The Long-Distance Con," Maggie Robinson Katz continues her deeply personal investigation into the extraordinary scam that ensnared her late father, Terry Robinson. Despite being a savvy and successful businessman, Terry lost hundreds of thousands of dollars—and ultimately his family's financial future—in a long-running, fantastical scheme involving claims of hidden Filipino gold and U.S. bonds. Maggie travels to Manila to confront Jim Stuckey, her father's business partner and possible con man, while wrestling with the psychological complexities of trust, belief, and denial that underpin such deceptions. Along the way, the episode explores the blurred line between perpetrator and victim.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. A Scam of Fantastical Proportions

• [00:19] The episode opens with recorded calls between Terry Robinson and Jim Stuckey, setting up the bizarre nature of the con: a $70,000 "accumulated charge" to access supposed riches.
• [01:22] Jim makes outlandish claims: "20 to 25 trillion dollars, counting the value of gold and diamonds and cash and all these other things."
• [01:38] The scam fits a familiar pattern: tall tales of hidden WWII-era treasure in the Philippines, tribal guardians, official-looking but dubious documents, and urgent demands for ever more money.

David Remnick: "Stuckey said he was involved in a project to get US Bonds, currency and gold bullion out of the Philippines... It’s very much like a number of scams based in the Philippines, including ones investigated by the U.S. Secret Service." [01:38]

2. The Human Cost: Family and Inheritance Lost

• [02:27] Terry’s daughter, Maggie, and widow are left nearly destitute.
• [02:40] Maggie Robinson Katz: "After he died, I found out he sent him another 14,000, and we didn’t have 14,000."
• The episode highlights the emotional fallout—the bewilderment and anger of surviving family members.

3. Expert Caution and Psychological Manipulation

• Maggie consults Maria Konnikova, a con expert and author, who warns her of the dangers and manipulations inherent in meeting a career scammer.

Maria Konnikova: "Don’t underestimate old men... If you think they have end of life regrets, think again. And don’t let your guard down—the con works when objectivity breaks down." [03:22, 03:46]

4. Journey to Manila: Investigating the Reality

• [04:21] Maggie, her husband Ben, and producer Daniel fly to Manila, anxious but determined to track down Stuckey and find out the truth.
• They hire local driver Baboy, who is unwittingly connected to the Filipino treasure-hunting culture.

Baboy: "You cannot find the gold if you’re greedy. You have to have a clean heart to get this gold." [07:15]

• Maggie realizes how embedded these legends are—and how many locals have been caught up in similar schemes.

5. Encounter with the Treasure-Hunting Underworld

• The team meets Henry Rojas, son of a famous (and real) Filipino treasure hunter, who shares stories of endless fruitless searching and skepticism toward others who claim to have found riches.

Henry Rojas: "You should have been fucking rich right now. And you’ve been doing that ever since... 25 years and finding nothing but helmets and lamps." [11:59]

• The pattern: years of hope, stories, and artifacts of little value—never the promised gold.

6. The Vigilant and Nervous Search for Jim Stuckey

• Maggie and her team conduct security checks, mindful of expert advice to meet in a public, safe area, accompanied by security guards.

Daniel Guimet: "The most common threat in Manila traffic, so-called tandem motorcycle riding. ...one driver and one shooter coming up on the side of the car." [14:17]

• The tension builds as they spot and mistakenly approach suspicious older white men in opulent hotel lobbies—false leads that amplify the anxiety and surreal tone.

7. Confronting Jim Stuckey

• Ultimately, Maggie meets Jim Stuckey, who, at 92, is nearly blind but agrees to a frank interview.

Jim Stuckey: "Well, all of this really started back when God created the world." [19:29]

• Stuckey spins grandiose tales, invoking biblical myths (the Ark of the Covenant, millions of tons of gold), and claims his and Terry’s work transitioned from "profit-motivated to humanitarian."
• When directly asked, he repeatedly denies "conning" Terry but remains evasive about details and deflects responsibility.

Maggie Robinson Katz: "Did you con my dad?"
Jim Stuckey: "I guess that would depend on the definition of con... Did we get into things that did not work out? Yes." [24:13]
Maggie: "Did you con him?"
Jim: "No. Is that a straight enough answer?" [24:52]

• Despite everything, Jim claims Terry's money "will be multiple times repaid," echoing the false hope that kept the con alive.

8. The Aftermath and Emotional Reckoning

• Maggie reflects on the deep psychological pull of the scam, both on her father and on herself:

Maggie Robinson Katz: "I just wanted Jim to convince me, even for a moment, that the gold bullion and the treasury bonds and the caves filled with cash were real so I could get why my dad believed him for so long." [27:57]

• She revisits old recordings—heartbreakingly, her father felt alone, ashamed, and unable to admit failure to his family.

Terry Robinson (call): "Even though none of them are going to be talking to me... just alone." [28:35]

• Maggie’s brother, Patrick, voices the family’s regret:

Patrick (Maggie's brother): "I just wish you just would have been like, I’m doing bad... Money doesn’t define us as a family." [28:57]

9. Another Victim: Stuckey’s Stepdaughter

• Maggie speaks with Julia, Jim’s stepdaughter, who reveals her own family was bled for money by Jim’s schemes.
  • Julia’s mother was driven to financial ruin, clinging to hope and love for Jim.
  • Julia summed up the damage:

Julia: "He wasted his beautiful life, you know, chasing dreams for me. That’s what I think. Chasing something that does not exist." [33:19]

• Yet Julia struggles with the possibility that Jim is both a grifter and a true believer:

Julia: "Maybe I don’t want to believe that he took my mother and all of us for a ride... But don’t chase, don’t dig. It was, it went, it’s not coming back." [33:44]

• Maggie ends with defiant determination: she will keep digging for answers to find meaning in what happened to her father.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Somewhere in the vicinity of 20 to 25 trillion dollars, counting the value of gold and diamonds and cash and all these other things."
  — Jim Stuckey ([01:25])

• "You cannot find the gold if you’re greedy. You have to have a clean heart to get this gold."
  — Baboy ([07:15])

• "I guess that would depend on the definition of con... Did we get into things that did not work out? Yes."
  — Jim Stuckey ([24:13])

• "My dad died with almost nothing, and he lied about his losses to the people who loved him most."
  — Maggie Robinson Katz ([28:07])

• "He wasted his beautiful life, you know, chasing dreams for me. That’s what I think. Chasing something that does not exist."
  — Julia, Jim’s stepdaughter ([33:19])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:19 – Introduction to Terry’s phone calls with Jim Stuckey
• 01:38 – Explanation of the scam and background on Stuckey
• 02:27-03:30 – The financial and emotional toll on Terry’s family
• 04:21-07:22 – Arrival in Manila and immersion in treasure-hunter culture
• 11:14-12:13 – Probing the realities of Filipino treasure hunting with Henry Rojas
• 14:17-15:47 – Security preparations to meet Jim
• 17:54-21:05 – Maggie’s meeting with Jim Stuckey: his story, deflections, and denials
• 24:07-25:04 – Direct questions about the con and Stuckey’s responses
• 27:04-28:57 – Maggie’s aftermath, family reflections, and confronting loss
• 29:29-34:23 – Julia (Jim’s stepdaughter) recounts her family’s entanglement and disillusionment

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Conclusion

"The Long-Distance Con, Part 2" is a powerful exploration of the human stories behind elaborate scams—the hope, shame, and confusion of victims; the ambiguous morality and reality distortion of perpetrators; and the devastation left in their wake. Maggie’s journey becomes not just a search for truth, but an act of reclaiming family memory and dignity. The episode skillfully blends investigative journalism, emotional honesty, and cultural observation, revealing how vulnerable anyone can be to the promise of riches and the manipulation of trust.

Transcript

[David Remnick]

From One World Trade center in Manhattan, this is the New Yorker Radio Hour, a co production of the New Yorker and WNYC Studios.

[Narrator/Host]

Welcome to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Today is part two of our story, the Long Distance Con.

[Jim Stuckey]

All right, now, here's the deal. Here's the problem. Always is a problem. In order for us to go forward now, there is a accumulated charge of $70,000.

[Narrator/Host]

We're listening here to a phone call recorded by a man named Terry Robinson in 2009 with his business partner.

[Jim Stuckey]

Now, I want you to raise that 70,000. You're going to raise hell and say you can't do it. But think about it just for a minute. There's no way I can do it. Jim. Listen, and I just. Don't say that. Just listen for a minute, all right?

[Narrator/Host]

Robinson's partner was a West Virginia man living in Manila named Jim Stuckey. And some of the things Stuckey is telling Robinson are kind of extraordinary.

[Jim Stuckey]

What this means is we can get the monies that we've been talking about taking out of it, plus $1 million. All right? Now, that is not the great advantage. The great advantage is somewhere in the.

Vicinity of.

20 to 25 trillion dollars, counting the value of gold and diamonds and cash and all these other things. If you can find, even through your friends or something like that.

[Narrator/Host]

You heard him right. He said trillions. Stuckey said he was involved in a project to get US Bonds, currency and gold bullion out of the Philippines, where the treasures were said to be in secret locations guarded by poor tribal people. Now, if you're thinking, how can I get in on this? I should tell you that the story is very much like a number of scams based in the Philippines, including some investigated by the U.S. secret Service. And Stuckey himself once defrauded a bank in Maryland. Robinson recorded his calls with Stuckey, suggesting that he might have been suspicious. And yet, for over a decade, up to the time of his death, he sent Stuckey hundreds of thousands of dollars. His kids lost their inheritance and his wife lost the house.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I said, you know, you cannot send.

[David Remnick]

That man any more money. You're enabling him.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And after he died, I found out he sent him another 14,000, and we didn't have 14,000.

[Narrator/Host]

Terri Robinson's daughter, Maggie, was left with the tapes of the phone calls. And she began trying to understand how her father, who had been so confident, so successful in business, had fallen for what seemed like an obvious scam.

[Jim Stuckey]

Sometimes a large sum of money makes a big difference. A large Sum of money. Well, then I'll become a genius again. Everybody will want to, you know, be close to me.

[Narrator/Host]

Maggie decided to go and meet the man responsible. Although against expert advice. In last week's episode, she talked with Maria Konnikova, a New Yorker contributor and author of the book the Confidence Game.

[Maria Konnikova]

I mean, tip number one, don't go.

[Narrator/Host]

Konnikova thought if Jim Stuckey were a con artist, he could be quite dangerous.

[Maria Konnikova]

And don't underestimate old men. They are people who've been con artists their entire life. And if you think they have end of life regrets, think again. I mean, I don't think Jim is going to assault you, but someone else might.

[Narrator/Host]

And not only that, she was afraid that Maggie might get conned herself.

[Maria Konnikova]

And he's going to talk to you and he's gonna seem nice and you're gonna say, oh, like, you know, maybe he's not such a bad guy. Once that happens and they breach kind of the distance between the two of you, that's the moment that objectivity stops. That's why it's always very easy to tell when other people have been conned. But the people in the con can't tell. Judge them for it.

[Narrator/Host]

Here's part two of our story. The long distance con.

[Daniel Guimet]

So what are we about to do?

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

We're about to get on this plane, this plane to Manila to go meet Jim.

[Daniel Guimet]

How do you feel about it right now?

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Right now? Right now? Honestly, I feel good about it. Right now. In this moment, I feel good. I'm in the Hong Kong airport on a layover to Manila. I'm with my producer Daniel, who's asking all those questions, and my husband Ben, who is a very nervous flyer.

[Daniel Guimet]

I really don't want to get on another plane.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

This sucks. Daniel is worried about something else.

[Daniel Guimet]

Do you ever think about what, like, Maria talked about?

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

You mean when she was like, you have to remain vigilant. I have had to block that out.

[Daniel Guimet]

I just talked to the security guy. So if you're Jim, his point of view, why are you coming? Unless it's to get some kind of revenge for all this.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Yeah, I mean, I would probably think that too. The security experts said that if Jim was a big time con artist, then he might be well connected in Manila's criminal underworld.

[Jim Stuckey]

Let me see the other thing the guy said.

[Daniel Guimet]

I wrote it down and he says if the guy is really scared, he can make people disappear for a couple of bucks.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Cool. Jesus Christ.

[Daniel Guimet]

He said we have to go with.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

The assumption, the assumption that we're gonna be murdered or just disappeared.

[Jim Stuckey]

Ladies and gentlemen, we are now descending.

Into Ninoy Aquino International Airport.

Please return to your seats and ensure that hand package loose items.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

We walk out of the airport into the humid Manila night. Hi.

[Jim Stuckey]

How are you?

All right.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Oh, thanks. Baboy, our driver, picks us up. How are you? Yeah, I'm good.

[Jim Stuckey]

Good, good.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Again, I'm exhausted and nervous about being here. All I want to do is just sit in silence, but Baboy won't let me.

[Henry Rojas]

So I was. Are you really into interviewing treasure hunters?

[Jim Stuckey]

Yes.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

When Daniel first hired Baboy a few weeks before our arrival, he explained a little bit of Jim's pitch to my dad. Basically, that Jim had a way to access hidden treasure in the Philippines.

[Daniel Guimet]

It's just funny because, like, it's so weird that, like, we just hired you and then it turns out, you know, treasure hunters.

[Henry Rojas]

It's really a coincidence.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

How are these people related to you? How do you know them?

[Henry Rojas]

He's my landlord.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Baboy is the first person I've met in the Philippines, and it turns out he knows a ton about treasure hunting.

[Henry Rojas]

I rent one room in his house.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I mean, his landlord is the treasure hunter.

[Henry Rojas]

He always tells me that you cannot find the gold if you're greedy. You have to have a clean heart to get this gold. Maybe he's also greedy.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Jim Stuckey presents himself as a middleman between the people who want to buy the treasures and the people who say they know where the treasures are.

[Jim Stuckey]

Hi. So what's up? They were here again today trying to make a decision, either with the silver coins or with gold bullion to raise the money. And they have promised to make the decision on which one they're going to have and be back here tomorrow with it.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

When I started learning about this hidden treasure story that Jim got my dad to invest in, it felt like there was no way. This.

[Jim Stuckey]

Money and the gold belong to.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

The Mahalika tribe that poor tribal people have been watching over. Gold bullion and US Bonds, all hidden in caves throughout the Philippines.

[Jim Stuckey]

You know, I got really excited about. I got really excited about the Molokai tribe thing last week, but I'm sorry, I said they got really excited about that tribe of North.

[Henry Rojas]

There are lots of crooked, crooked when it comes to gold. They will ask money in advance because they will say, ah, it's the primitives that are guarding the gold. We have to pay them, something like that. But never deal with these people. They will really show you this money from the States. That's Wells Fargo. Do you know anything, anything about that?

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Yeah, Jim Talks constantly about Wells Fargo.

[Jim Stuckey]

A Wells Fargo has to be brought here. It's crazy to do that. I have to get the Wells Fargo in here first, then bring the, the eight palace in and that's going to cost some money.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I couldn't find the people Jim claimed to be working with, but we did find one treasure hunter who would talk to us.

[Jim Stuckey]

Really?

[Daniel Guimet]

Yeah, it's the guy. So it's the son of this guy who claimed he found the gold in the 70s. Ah, he's Rojas. He Rojas son.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

We're going to meet Henry Rojas, the son of the most famous treasure hunter in recent memory.

[Daniel Guimet]

Yeah, yeah, it was his father.

[Henry Rojas]

Yeah, yeah, it's his father. It's a very known story because he had pictures of it to prove that he was the one who found the golden Buddha. And the golden Buddha, you can open the head and there's lots of diamonds there.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

After his father died in 1993, Henry took up the treasure hunting profession himself. All right, awesome. Sorry for the place. Thanks so much for bringing us to your house. As soon as we got to Henry's house, he started showing off his loot.

[Jim Stuckey]

This one is 18th century, 16th century coins. We get that in treasure hunting. This one bayonets like that.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

After looking at the stuff he found, we took off from Henry's home in the city to a nearby farm. The farm's owner had hired Henry and his crew and their metal detector to look for gold on their property. Do you hear anything?

[Daniel Guimet]

Some metal, man.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Can you tell what type of metal this one is?

[Daniel Guimet]

Like iron?

[Jim Stuckey]

Yeah, it's.

[Daniel Guimet]

Well.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Oh yeah.

[Daniel Guimet]

Is that going to be something you could sell?

[Jim Stuckey]

We cannot sell that one.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

So Henry found a piece of metal he couldn't sell.

[Henry Rojas]

You always go with the good luck.

[Daniel Guimet]

Good luck, only good luck.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

That's all I want.

[Daniel Guimet]

What did you think of Henry?

[Henry Rojas]

Henry? For me, I believe him 50% and I don't believe him 50%.

[Daniel Guimet]

What was unconvincing about him?

[Henry Rojas]

He's not rich. You should have been fucking rich right now. And you've doing that ever since.

[Daniel Guimet]

I think it was about 25 years.

[Henry Rojas]

25, yeah. Imagine that. Doing that for 25 years and finding nothing but helmets and helmets and lamps and Japanese bayonets. If I am to find gold, just.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Like Bboy's unsure about Henry. I don't know how I feel about Jim. I don't know if he was actively scamming my dad or if he himself was being conned. The way to find out was to stop putting off what I came Here to do what I was frankly scared to do, I had to go back to Manila and meet Jim.

[Narrator/Host]

That's Maggie Robinson Katz. Our story concludes in a moment. And by the way, if you missed part one, which we aired last week, you can find it on our podcast [e-mail] this is the New Yorker Radio Hour. Stick around. Welcome back to the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. We've been listening to Maggie Robinson Katz's story about her late father, a successful businessman who lost a fortune in a very bad business relationship or possibly a scam in which he sent hundreds of thousands of dollars to a man in the Philippines named Jim Stuckey. Maggie went to meet Stuckey, who agreed to an interview and will pick up with Maggie, her husband and a producer in a car in Manila. And riding along with them is a security consultant.

[Daniel Guimet]

The most common threat in Manila traffic, so called tandem motorcycle riding. Shoot would be coming on that side. So explain what a tandem motorcycle shooter is. It's basically two guys on a motorcycle, one driver and one shooter coming up on the side of the car. Sitting here, I have a much better view of what's happening behind and I can also pull you down to the ground if it's necessary. That's great.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Well, the security experts we talked to, there were several, all had really clear advice about meeting somebody like Jim. Meet him in a public place, hire security guards, and do plenty of recon beforehand to figure out the safest possible location.

[Daniel Guimet]

Is this a safe area?

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

So me, Daniel, my husband Ben and some security guards went to check out some spots where we could do the interview with Jim. One of them was a fancy mall. Yeah, no, this seems like a good option. It's world. Seattle's best coffee. As we walked along, I kept noticing old white guys, thinking every one of them could be. What's that phenomenon where you, like, hear about a certain car and then you just see that car everywhere? Like, there's a guy over there, he's reading a John Grisham novel. Like he's, he's, he's got some, he's got some intel. We left the mall plaza and drove a few minutes to an opulent hotel called the Shangri La.

[Daniel Guimet]

Is this like the nicest hotel in Manila?

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I know this place. I've seen the hotel name on documents. Jim fax to my dad. Is this the place where Jim took some of his phone calls? Sitting in this elegant marbled lobby as my dad pleads for money.

[Daniel Guimet]

That's the same guy. He stood Next to us, looked at us and then went up. Yeah, he followed us.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

While I was talking to the security guards, Ben noticed that one of the old white men I thought could be Jim, the one who had been reading a John Grisham book at the mall. He was suddenly in the lobby of the hotel. How long did he stand near us?

[Daniel Guimet]

Like a minute or two.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Holy shit.

[Jim Stuckey]

Yeah.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

This is the same guy. Yeah, it's the same guy who we.

[Daniel Guimet]

Saw at the Seattle coffee place.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Definitely the same person. Ben then saw the man was on the second floor of the lobby.

[Daniel Guimet]

He's right up the stairs, sitting there. There's like a live string band playing. And he's like sitting in front of him reading his.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Do I just ask? Okay. Excuse me. Does your name happen to be Jim Stuckey? No. No. Okay. What is your name?

[Jim Stuckey]

I'm Todd Smith.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Charles Wolf.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

Todd Smith.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Todd Smith looks Nowhere close to 90. He doesn't have a West Virginia accent. He's not Jim. I'm going nuts. We leave the Shangri La Hotel and drive back to ours. I sleep badly. I swim. It's about 3am I record my thoughts. Just. I don't know. I just like, wonder what he does all day. I drink at the poolside bar and try to think about. And not think about meeting Jim. I don't know if I'm afraid anymore. And then one morning. Oh, man, I am feeling. I go back to the Shangri La Hotel. I'm feeling a little nervous today. Two undercover security guards go ahead of me, blending into the lobby. I don't see them as I walk in, but I do see an old man with white hair, white skin, white clothes and a big belly. He's staring straight ahead. Are you Jim Stuttke?

[Jim Stuckey]

Yes.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Hi, I'm Maggie.

[Jim Stuckey]

Maggie, hi. I'm 90% blind. I need an operation. In about two weeks, I'll have an operation.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Maria warned me that he would say he had a health issue. Is this a trick to get me to sympathize with him? Or am I being unfair to an old man? Is that okay?

[Jim Stuckey]

It's okay. I don't have an appointment until almost one o' clock before I get home.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Right. We have all the time in the world.

[Jim Stuckey]

Okay.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Catch up. Like old friends.

[Jim Stuckey]

Yes. Really, it doesn't matter. I'm happy to be able to participate until you. How Terry and I were involved in these things over here. Depending on how much of it you want to know, I think.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I mean, I want to know everything.

[Jim Stuckey]

You want to know everything?

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Everything. That's why I'M here.

[Jim Stuckey]

Well, all of this really started.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

Back.

[Jim Stuckey]

You could go back when God created the world. When God created, created the world, he also chose.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Wait, we're really starting at the creation of the world.

[Jim Stuckey]

Not only that, but when the war ended in Israel, the Ark of the Covenant and 5,400 gold artifacts was brought here. And we know within a general area and we have a brochure. It's not for publication because it's not clear.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I'm struggling to focus on what he's talking about.

[Jim Stuckey]

The original association between Terry and I was profit motivated. However, when we got into the Philippines and we saw what was going on over here, then our interests changed from profit motivated to humanitarian services to to try to help the people. Every tribe needs millions of dollars and the money is available. I have some things here I can show you that. It's probably got 2 to 3 million tons of gold in it and probably that much in other assets such as Chase bonds, currency called Wells Fargo, other things like this.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

So taking it back just to like the pure relationship between you and my father, I'm curious in, like, how, how would you describe my father?

[Jim Stuckey]

Very generous, well educated and well informed.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Do you miss his daily phone calls?

[Jim Stuckey]

Oh, yes. I miss the wisdom that he had. He was a good business partner in addition to a good friend.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And how did you find out that he was sick?

[Jim Stuckey]

Oh, he called me.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Do you remember what he said?

[Jim Stuckey]

Yes. He called me one day and said he had been to the doctor and the doctor had told him to put his house in order that he was going to pass on. And in about a month he did pass on.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

How did it feel when that first. When it kind of sunk in?

[Jim Stuckey]

Well, to tell you it was anything other than a sad feeling, I would not be telling you the truth. You cannot work that long with someone without them being an intricate part of my life. You know, we always wonder what is God's plan when he takes somebody that is so active in trying to help others. I also ask myself a similar question. Why did he take Terry and let me live this long? I'm now 92 years old. I'm in good health, mentally, physically, work every day.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

How much do you think my dad lost in the end in this project?

[Jim Stuckey]

I have no idea. No accounting really was ever made of it. I can only say that the two of us together put in several millions of dollars. Would you say that my loss was roughly $4 million? Not lost investment. The only one that was supposed to return money was an estate that placed some $34 trillion in the state for the use.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

It's just such insane amounts of money.

[Jim Stuckey]

Insane amounts of money. But I'm telling you, it's real.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I mean, I just have to ask. Because it sounds so fantastical when you lay it out, and I just have to ask. Did you con my dad?

[Jim Stuckey]

Did I con your dad? Many times I've called your dad.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

No, I'm asking. Did you con him?

[Jim Stuckey]

Did I con him? I guess that would depend on the definition of con. If you think that I caused him to do something without his 100% knowledge, no. Did we get into things that did not work out? Yes. Was it a loss for both of us? Yes.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And just to be clear, the statute of limitations are up, so I'm not. There's nothing legal. I'm not going to sue you or anything. So I just. I just want to ask you again. Did you con my dad?

[Jim Stuckey]

No. Is that a straight enough answer? If you have any reason to believe I did, then lay it on the table.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Just the amount of money that was put in. I don't understand. You know, he retired. He had. He had a nice life.

[Jim Stuckey]

We both had a nice life till we came here.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I mean, in the end, you know, I. I lost my inheritance. My. He left my stepmom with almost nothing. She had to foreclose her home.

[Jim Stuckey]

I understood that. I understood the last few conversations we had. He talked about his financial status that depleted.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

How do you feel it all turned out for my family?

[Jim Stuckey]

Well, I think at the end of the day, your family is going to be very happy and very proud. And unless I'm sadly mistaken, the financial assistance that Terry put into this thing will be multiple times repaid to his estate. I have no obligation to do that, but I'm going to see that it's done.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

In this moment, I feel like my dad getting told by Jim that the money is coming soon. I've heard it all before.

[Jim Stuckey]

Are we finished then?

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

We're finished.

[Jim Stuckey]

Okay. Check, check, check.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

While I was interviewing Jim.

[Jim Stuckey]

Okay.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

My husband Ben had moved all our stuff to a new hotel. The security guys told us to do this in case Jim had been a master criminal. When I got to the new place, I told him what Jim was actually like. Yeah, I mean, that's like the thing that's so fucking nuts.

[Jim Stuckey]

It's just.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

It's like Indiana Jones shit. Like, that's like every. Like every word. Ancient secrets, like going back to biblical times, like the Ark of the Covenant. Like, these are all. These are all here, and I alone know where it is.

[Jim Stuckey]

Like The Ark of the Covenant.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

He brought up the Ark of the Covenant.

[Jim Stuckey]

Oh, my God.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

He did say that he had a bunch of paperwork, but that he, like, wanted to show. But I'm sure it's like the same gobbledygook I saw before. The next day, we leave Manila. Was I expecting Jim to confess? Maybe a little. But I think I just wanted Jim to convince me, even for a moment, that the gold bullion and the treasury bonds and the caves filled with cash were real so I could get why my dad believed him for so long.

[Jim Stuckey]

All right. You know, it's just. It's all in for me.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

My dad died with almost nothing, and he lied about his losses to the people who loved him most.

[Jim Stuckey]

It's driving me crazy. Yeah, well, just destroyed me.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

This call is from July 2010, the year before he died.

[Jim Stuckey]

I'll never recover from it, but I pray to God that my family does. Even though none of them are going to be talking to me, none of them are talking to me.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

But that's not true.

[Jim Stuckey]

None of my friends are talking to me, just alone.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

He wasn't alone then. His family talked to him. He had friends. He wasn't talking to us.

[Daniel Guimet]

That's sometimes where gets me the most angry is, I just wish you just would have been like, I'm doing bad.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

This is my brother Patrick.

[Daniel Guimet]

Like, we got hit bad.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Yeah. I think it would have been so nice for him to know that we loved him. Even without money.

[Daniel Guimet]

That was the moment that we didn't get. I guess finally just being like, money doesn't define us as a family. We should just be people that care about each other and just understand each other. And I think step one would have been just dad being straight up about when things went bad, but he didn't know how to.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

Hi, Maggie.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

This is two months after getting back from Manila. I got this voicemail.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

Yes, I would like to talk to you. And I. I hope. Not that I hope, but I'm scared that your father was Terry Robinson that died so early.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I had reached out to many of Jim's relatives through phone calls and letters. And Julia, that's the name I'm giving her, was the only one who wanted to talk.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

That's why I didn't invite you to the house, because we just do not talk about James Tuckey.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Julia's husband despises Jim. So I met her and her son in a studio close to her house instead.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

It happened to everybody. Something, right? That's why I wanted to meet you. And you know, you're not left alone.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Yeah. Julia knew Jim well. She was Jim's stepdaughter. Her mother was married to him until she died in 2008.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

She loved him and love is blind.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

In 2000, she says Jim and her mother went to the Philippines for the first time.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

I told my mother what I think about it. But my mother, she went also so deep with Jim that she had to believe. But then at certain point, she gave up. Yeah.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

What were those certain points?

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

Always tomorrow and never anything else. Always Tomorrow, tomorrow.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

In 2002, Julia's mother came back from the Philippines while Jim stayed behind.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

And my mother never understood. You know, there were times when she wrote in her diary that that's it. If you're not coming back, then I'm applying for a divorce. But unfortunately, she died before that.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Her mother wrote about my dad in her diary too.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

This is in Polish. My mother diary. Your father spoke with Jim and Jim introduced him to the business. Which one he is doing.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Who was my dad to Jim?

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

Who was your father to Jim? I think an investor.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

And. Yeah, sorry, I just was very struck. What did you think about Jim?

[Daniel Guimet]

He was an interesting character.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

This is Julia's son. Did you ever hear anything about the Philippines?

[Daniel Guimet]

I remember hearing about the Philippines. I remember them always going. I even remember my mom coming to me asking for money for Jim.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

I took his money.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

Really?

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

Yeah.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

How?

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

Birthday money. Anything that he had, I took the money away from him and. And give it to my mother because my mother was on my back and she needed the money to send to Jim because Jim didn't have anything to eat except crackers. My mother came to this country. She had a dream like everybody else. She started working for New York Life Insurance Company. She bought herself a beautiful car. She bought the house. She helped me to buy a house. And then she ended up going to a dollar store for hot dogs so she could have food, so she could send gym money. That's okay. It happened.

[Jim Stuckey]

Maybe.

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

Maybe that's what she wanted to do.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

So do you. Do you think that Jim believes that there still is something?

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

He wasted his beautiful life, you know, chasing dreams for me. That's what I think. Chasing something that does not exist.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

You really think, like deep down he 100% believes in it?

[Daniel Guimet]

Yes.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

What makes you think that?

[Julia (Jim Stuckey's stepdaughter)]

I don't know. I really don't know. Maybe I don't want to believe that he took my mother and all of us for a ride. I don't know. You know, at this point, you have your own feelings. Believe what you believe. I believe what I believe. But don't chase, don't dig. It was, it went, it's not coming back.

[Maggie Robinson Katz]

I appreciate the advice but I have spent 15 years not digging, not understanding my dad and his late night phone calls. So I will ignore Julia. I'm going to listen to the tapes again and re examine the photos Jim sent my dad and keep calling people all in the hope that this will start making sense. I keep telling myself it will one day, maybe tomorrow.

[Narrator/Host]

Maggie Robinson Katz Our story the Long Distance Con was produced by Daniel Guimet of WNYC Studios with Ben Katz and Mack Montanden. And if you missed any part of our story, you can find [e-mail] or on our podcast. Now for the record, Jim Stuckey disputes a couple of points in our account. For one thing, he says he never asked Vivian Cobb for money after the death of her husband, and he also says his own family never sent him money from the US While he was in the Philippines. Maggie Robinson Katz leads a cover band called Doll Parts and she recently got her friends and family together for a kind of tribute concert for her father where they played some of his favorite songs. I'm David Remnick and that's our podcast for today. I want to thank you for joining us. I hope you'll tune in for our next episode.

[David Remnick]

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Toon Yards, with additional music by Alexis Quadrado. Our team includes Alex Barron, Emily Botin, Ave Carrillo, Rhiannon Corby, Jill Duboff, Karen Frillman, Kal Aleah, David Krasnow, Louis Mitchell, Sarah Nix, and Stephen Vellum, with help from Emily Mann and Jessica Henderson. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Chorina Endowment Fund.