Steve Kerr (3:49)

That's right. That's her line.

Charles Bethea (3:50)

Yeah, it's a great line. And so you. You were born in Beirut. You spent time in Cairo as well in your childhood, but you spent most of your formative adolescent years in the Palisades.

Steve Kerr (4:01)

Yeah, mostly in the Palisades, with intermittent sabbaticals from my dad. We spent time in, let's see, a year in Aix en Provence in the south of France when I was in kindergarten. Three years in Cairo, so sixth grade, and then back to la, and then we went back to Cairo. Ninth and tenth grade. My dad was doing research and writing a book and teaching at the American University in Cairo. And so most of the time was in the Palisades, but with these periodic journeys overseas.

Charles Bethea (4:43)

So. But what was it like for you growing up in Cairo and Beirut? Was there a basketball culture in either place, or what were you interested in when you were living in this place?

Steve Kerr (4:53)

So, yeah, born in Beirut, but I only spent the first year and a half or two years of my life there, so. So Beirut, no, but Cairo. I went to an American school called Cairo American College. I still have great friends from there who I've stayed in touch with. We didn't have a gym. We had an outdoor court. And for ninth and 10th grades, I played on the school team.

Charles Bethea (5:20)

Did you dominate?

Steve Kerr (5:21)

I did pretty well. And ninth and 10th grades would have been like, 1979, 1980, 81. No gyms in the entire country of Egypt, no basketball gyms. So every one of our games was played outdoors, but we played on Dirt courts. And to be on the team and to be traveling around Cairo playing on these outdoor courts was just crazy. When you look back and think about

Charles Bethea (5:49)

it now, right when you got used to, I guess, judging the wind, which you don't have to do when you're

Steve Kerr (5:53)

playing, and the pebbles that were on the dirt court, you know, avoid. It was like later on, I had to deal with the gaps in the floor at the Boston Garden. So those dirt courts in Cairo helped prepare me for that.

Charles Bethea (6:05)

You mentioned your dad. So. He was assassinated in 1984 in Beirut by the Islamic Jihad Organization. He was there as president of the American University of Beirut. And in that role, as I understand it, he was very much trying to foster cross cultural respect, understanding, knowledge. Right?

Steve Kerr (6:24)

Yeah.

Charles Bethea (6:24)

And so there was an irony, of course, a tragic one, in his killing. The time around your father's death, you were at the University of Arizona. Correct. And as I understand it, your teammates wore black armbands after his death in solidarity. What was. How did basketball factor or function in your grieving process? Was it part of how you grieved? Was it a distraction from grief?

Steve Kerr (6:49)

Literally, part of how I grieved. I went to practice that the next day I found out about my dad's death from a phone call from a university colleague of his at 3:00am and it was, you know, the worst moment of my life, the most shocking. Even though I knew the danger in Beirut, we just always thought my dad was so well respected there, had so many Arabic friends. He spoke fluent Arabic. He was fostering goodwill between America and Lebanon. He, you know, was the victim of political terrorism, kind of, you know, near the very beginning of this current era of Islamic extremist terrorism and animosity towards America.

Charles Bethea (7:35)

When did you realize, realistically, you could play in the NBA? When did that become a reality?

Steve Kerr (7:41)

Maybe my senior year at Arizona. We had a great team. We made the Final Four. Maybe that year I started to dream a little bit that maybe I could sneak into the NBA for a couple years, have a cup of coffee, make a team and be able to tell my kids I played in the NBA.

Charles Bethea (8:02)

Right? You touched the court.

Steve Kerr (8:03)

Yeah. Like I thought, maybe. Maybe. But it wasn't until my senior year that I even allowed myself to think about that.

Charles Bethea (8:10)

What role did you play on that Arizona team?

Steve Kerr (8:14)

When I got there as a freshman, it was good fortune. Coach Olson, Coach Lud Olson was a legend. He'd come from Iowa, and he took the Arizona job and had to rebuild it from scratch. It was a terrible basketball program, and it's the Only reason I was there,

Charles Bethea (8:32)

because my sense of Arizona, I wasn't watching. I'm a little younger than you. I wasn't watching then. But my sense when I started following basketball, Arizona is a powerhouse.

Steve Kerr (8:40)

That's right.

Charles Bethea (8:40)

Right. So this was pre powerhouse.

Steve Kerr (8:42)

This was the whole reason Arizona is a powerhouse now is because of Coach Olson. He got there and he turned it around literally in one year. My sophomore year, we made the NCAA Tournament. My fifth year, my senior year, we made the Final Four. And I was lucky enough to be part of it for five years. And that was. That was the experience that paved my entire basketball career.

Charles Bethea (9:06)

You. You end up, after playing for a few other teams, you end up on the Bulls. Most of our listeners are Familiar with the 90s bulls, I think. What was your role on that team until that point?

Steve Kerr (9:17)

I played for three different teams. I was bouncing around. I was good enough to survive, but not good enough to thrive. And I was able to thrive in Chicago based on the set of circumstances. Ultimately playing next to Michael Jordan and feeding off of him because he attracted so much attention and when necessary, roughing

Charles Bethea (9:39)

him up and practice.

Steve Kerr (9:40)

Yeah, yeah. Beating him up a little bit. Yeah, yeah.

Charles Bethea (9:42)

Mother described that to me as you rubbing elbows a bit, which is one of her great euphemisms.

Steve Kerr (9:46)

Rubbing elbows. Yeah, yeah. I like to say I hit him in the fist with my eye. You know, something like that. So. Game clock.

Commercial Voice (9:56)

It is Michael Jordan time. Scotty Pippen looking. Looking for Michael Jordan.

Steve Kerr (10:02)

Checks the clock. Five on the 20. Here's Jordan.

Commercial Voice (10:05)

Did not have the shot.

Steve Kerr (10:06)

K.

Commercial Voice (10:10)

Five seconds remaining in the fourth quarter.

Steve Kerr (10:13)

The Jags take a time.

Charles Bethea (10:15)

He possessed an incredible suite of skills that made him great, but do you feel like any of those get short shrift when people remember him? Anything in particular about.

Steve Kerr (10:23)

I mean, I think the younger generation, because they've watched LeBron, automatically says LeBron is the greatest player ever. And the Jordan people, you know, who watched the game back then all say Jordan's the greatest ever. And it's just human nature. I think they're very different players, really. I think.

Charles Bethea (10:43)

Can you distill that for the. For our audience a little BIT?

Steve Kerr (10:47)

I think LeBron is better passer, more of a point forward. I've always thought he was the point forward of every team he was on. And his brilliance doesn't lie in the same skill set that Michaels did. It lies in more of a kind of a holistic game where he just. He dominates the game with his pace and his athleticism and his passing. And it's ironic, but Like, I, I've always felt scoring is secondary for LeBron, but he's the greatest scorer in the

Charles Bethea (11:25)

history of the NBA, incidentally.

Steve Kerr (11:27)

Yeah, incidentally, he became the best. The best scorer of all time. And, and some of that is longevity. And. But, you know, as part of his greatness is he's available every single night. He's a machine. I mean, I think he's literally the greatest athlete on the face of the planet. And in the course of human history, I think LeBron James, the greatest athlete of all time. Playing with Michael, I saw the killer instinct, the killer mentality, the emotional dominance he had over not only the other team, the officials, the entire arena. He had a dominance about him that I don't see with LeBron. So they're very different. And when I say that, I'm talking about the emotional part of it. I think everybody came into a series against Michael knowing they were going to lose. And that's different. That's just very. I mean, there's never been anybody like that. Maybe, that, maybe Bill Russell was like that. But in my lifetime, I've never felt the same way on a basketball floor as I did with Michael. And so the fact that they're such different players, I think they're the two best players of all time, but I think they're very different players.

Charles Bethea (12:39)

You're starting a team from scratch.

Steve Kerr (12:40)

I'll take them both.

Charles Bethea (12:42)

I thought I could trap you.

Steve Kerr (12:43)

Nope, I'm taking them both.

Charles Bethea (12:44)

Thought I could trap you.

Steve Kerr (12:45)

By the way, Steph's on that, too.

Charles Bethea (12:49)

You played an era that was famously physical. Charles Oakley, Bill Laimbeer, they were, I guess, in their latter stages of their careers, but they were still playing. When you were in the league, when you were playing in the league, where do you land on the question of how Today's stars like LeBron would handle the physicality?

Steve Kerr (13:03)

Oh, LeBron would handle it fine. It was, you know, it's really a different game when people mention the physicality. A lot of that just had has to do with the way the game was played. It used to be a low post game. You throw the ball into the big guy, and that's where the battles all happen. Now the battle battles all happen on the perimeter, and it's a game of pace and space. So back then, teams didn't spread you out with three point shooting. So the, the, the game was played in a tighter circle and there was just naturally a lot more contact. But I think also back then, we weren't nearly as concerned with like, like, too much physicality. As a league, you know, guys would literally punch each other and stay in the game back then till a certain point and we got smarter, you know, and, and so I think the game today is overall, it's faster and it's more skilled than ever. And while it's less physical that that physicality, that the difference in the physicality has more to do with the style of play and the fact that the league just knows people throwing punches at each other might work for hockey, but it doesn't work for basketball. It's not good business.

Charles Bethea (14:24)

We've got UFC and we've got hockey.

Steve Kerr (14:26)

Yeah, yeah.

David Remnick (14:27)

Warriors coach Steve Kerr with the New Yorker's Charles Bethea will continue in just a moment. This is the New Yorker Radio.

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Charles Bethea (18:02)

And now Campus Files is back for another season. There's a guy screaming into his phone.

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Charles Bethea (18:08)

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David Remnick (18:25)

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Now let's continue our conversation with the veteran NBA player and coach, Steve Kerr. He's speaking with our reporter Charles Bethea. Kerr was born in Beirut, the son of an academic, Malcolm Kerr. Malcolm Kerr was serving as president of the American University in Beirut when he was tragically assassinated in 1984 by pro Iran militants. Kerr's upbringing and losing his father to political violence led him to an interest in politics, and he's not been afraid to speak his mind about the state of our country, even while coaching in the National Basketball association, and even if that means getting into a spat with Donald Trump.

Charles Bethea (19:10)

You've been refreshingly willing to speak about politics over the years. The day after Trump's first election in 2016, you delivered what you called a rant at a Warriors press conference. I believe you described your disgust and disappointment in the result. You referenced a players meeting. You had to talk about it. That was a while ago now and plenty has happened since. But without naming names, can you share anything you heard in the meeting?

Steve Kerr (19:33)

I don't remember. But I remember, I do remember in the early days of his presidency, as he was establishing this new tone of communication that we were going to have in this country, I was so disgusted that I didn't hold back from showing my disgust and expressing my disgust. I think I've learned that it's, I, I, I needed to be better in terms of representing our organization in a way that I could still let my feelings be known but not get too personal because I'm representing a large group of people, not only for our organization, but our fans too.

Charles Bethea (20:16)

And you called him a blowhard. Ill suited to the office buffoon, I

Steve Kerr (20:21)

think might have, might have been made his way in there.

Charles Bethea (20:23)

So those, those kinds of direct comments, what do you specific about what you find most troubling about his leadership or his approach to leadership?

Steve Kerr (20:31)

Well, I think it's the approach. I think the, you know what really got me with the debates with Hillary where he stalked her from behind. It was so shocking. And there was a live audience. It reminded me like the Jerry Springer show or something. All I could think of was all that stuff, you know, that started on TV with the talk shows, like the sensationalized tv. It's now.

Charles Bethea (20:56)

It was all foreshadowing.

Steve Kerr (20:57)

Yeah, yeah. It's now entered our political world. And it was just so shocking because in my life, up until that time, there had been a sense of decorum that was expected. You know, Reagan and Tip o' Neill were really good friends. They went to lunch every week, Democratic speaker of the House, Republican President, knowing they had to work together to get stuff done. That was politics. There was a decorum, there was a sense of decency that people were watching, that we wanted our country to embody a certain dignity that was embodied in politics regardless of policy. Right. And regardless of even corruption. Like, yes, there was corruption, there's been corruption from the, you know, beginning of mankind. But like that stuff would be dealt with. And so we lost that. I don't think it's all Trump's fault. I think it was happening before Trump. The forces in social media, the forces in our country, the division.

Charles Bethea (22:02)

He's a symptom, in other words, not

Steve Kerr (22:03)

a. Yeah, I think he's a symptom. But he's definitely has, you know, taken advantage of that to some extent to gain power and to consolidate power. And he's using it to drive a wedge between all of us. And he's not the only one who's done that. But he's the president. He's got the most power.

Charles Bethea (22:23)

How have you chosen when you have chosen to speak out? How have you chosen when to. What moments to choose?

Steve Kerr (22:29)

I just try to do it wisely. As I said early in his first tenure, I. I probably went overboard, as

Charles Bethea (22:39)

judged by some of the, like, you

Steve Kerr (22:41)

know, calling the president a buffoon. I kind of regret that. Even though I felt it in my heart and even though a lot of people agreed with me, I just. I don't think it was the right approach.

Charles Bethea (22:52)

And because it's a low road or

Steve Kerr (22:54)

because, because I am representing the Golden State Warriors, I think it's better to point out policy decisions, but also American values, values in general. Like, I think we've. We've kind of lost our way. Everyone. That's not news, but it's more valuable to point out why we've lost our way and what's wrong with the things that he does rather than calling him a name.

Charles Bethea (23:24)

You. You play golf. Your mother, I think, told. She's my source here. Obviously, a lot of this stuff she told me. You played golf with Obama and can you share anything about. I mean, he. Obviously, he loves the NBA. He loves basketball. Plays basketball a bit. What was he interested in talking about just topically with you and what stood out for you?

Steve Kerr (23:42)

Well, I wanted to talk about Middle east, and he wanted to talk about the NBA, and so we ended up talking about both. It was his 60th birthday. He brought a group of friends to Monterey to play golf. And we have a mutual friend, Tom Friedman, the columnist for the New York Times.

Charles Bethea (23:59)

He was at Beirut. Bureau chief, right?

David Remnick (24:01)

That's right.

Steve Kerr (24:02)

When you were there? Yeah. He was like 27 years old, and he became friends with my dad as a bureau chief. And so Tom has remained a family friend ever since. Whenever I go to Washington, we get together and have breakfast, and I read all of his stuff and I think the world of him. And he's friends with Obama. So they played golf all week, and I think they kept a spot open for one guest, one visitor every day. And I got to join and play pebble beach with.

Charles Bethea (24:35)

Where'd you stack up in the. In terms of the results?

Steve Kerr (24:38)

Well, there's a handicap system, so I don't know much about golf. But it was amazing. It was one of the thrills of my life to play pebble beach with President Obama. So I got to ask him a lot about his worldview and he got to ask me a lot about the NBA. He loves basketball. And so, and then we had dinner afterwards. So it was a really, like a full day. And one of the, one of the best experiences of my life.

Charles Bethea (25:06)

I remember seeing your remarks after the uvalde school shootings. 2022. This was, I think during a press conference during the finals and you said that our country was being held hostage by senators who wouldn't vote for widely popular common sense gun reform.

Steve Kerr (25:26)

I'm tired, I'm so tired of getting up here and offering condolences to the devastated families that are out there. I'm so tired of the excuse my, I'm sorry. I'm tired of the moments of silence. Enough.

Charles Bethea (25:42)

And I was thinking as I saw that first, this is what informed and impassioned advocacy looks like. And second, that you might have a future in politics if you wanted one, which I don't think you've ever suggested that you do.

Steve Kerr (25:54)

Yeah.

Charles Bethea (25:54)

But just to ask you again, have you considered it? You're at a, you are, it seems like at a crossroads right now, potentially. Right. Your contract, it's run out. You're making decisions over the next few weeks. I'm not suggesting you're going to jump into the governor's race in California. But you know, I mean, you, you could be popular if you chose to, to, to use your platform.

Steve Kerr (26:17)

Well, that's flattering and I, I appreciate it. I, I, no, I, I don't have any desire to go into politics. I love basketball. This is my world. This is, all of my friends and my people are in this world. And whether I keep coaching the warriors or not, I imagine I'll be involved in basketball. And I, I love it and my family loves it and I'm very content doing, doing what I'm doing. But I'm very flattered that, that people would even bring that up.

Charles Bethea (26:44)

Fair enough. On a lighter note, and we're getting towards the end here. I wrote a few years ago about adding a four pointer to the game. I interviewed Larry Bird. Larry, who entered the league the same year the three pointer was added, was like, this game evolves. It's always evolving. There could be a four pointer down the road. He'd be open to it. Do you have any sort of knee jerk responses to that?

Steve Kerr (27:04)

I would never, never do a four point play. In fact, I would even consider getting Rid of the three point line.

Charles Bethea (27:11)

Say more about that. As the guy who holds the all time record for percentage. Come on.

Steve Kerr (27:16)

I just think that the game as it was designed is really to create the best shots possible. And that's why in the early days of the game, you just throw it inside to the big guy. The three point line came from the ABA. It was in 1979. The NBA decided to adopt it and I think it was really effective. It makes for an exciting play. But the analytics revolution has created a weird situation where we all know exactly where the highest efficiency shots are. And so it's layups, it's corner threes. Because the corner three is 22ft and not 23 nine like the up above the break threes. And you have this whole no man's land between those areas. Right. So if you shoot a 22 footer now from the top of the key, that's considered a really bad shot. I just think that some ways the game has, has gotten homogenized by the, by the analytics revolution and the three point line, the combination. And so, you know, even though I think there's great coaches and there's a lot of creativity, I wonder if the game would get more creative if we got rid of the three point line. More fun to watch, maybe more fun to watch. But there's no role for.

Charles Bethea (28:49)

There's less of a role for Steve Kerr.

Steve Kerr (28:50)

Yeah, I would, I wouldn't make it in the NBA, but I, you know, I just throw it out there for fun. It's not anything that I would ever propose that's not happening. But I think it's an interesting thought experiment environment.

Charles Bethea (29:01)

What can you distill? What drives you at this point?

Steve Kerr (29:05)

I love what I do every day. And so I wake up excited to come to the gym and coach basketball and collaborate with the staff and see the players and try to help them achieve something. That's an amazing life and that's. That's all that really matters, you know, is do you enjoy what you do every day and are you fulfilled? And I still am. Sorry. Winning is obviously much more fun than losing, but losing is just a part of it. And this year was our worst season we've ever had. No, I take that back. Second worst Covid year. We had the worst record in the league. But I don't look at it like I'm a failure now, you know, or I was wildly successful then. Even though that's how everyone measures things. I'm well aware this is life, you know, this is all part of your existence. As a coach, as a human being, and you're going to experience everything, and you want to help people have that perspective and really embrace the things that. That are going to be there for them every day, which is the joy that comes from competing and the camaraderie that comes from being part of a team. And. And that stuff occurs even on losing teams, you know, and it's especially. It's. It's especially important on losing teams to make sure those things are. Are happening.

Charles Bethea (30:24)

You know, you sound like a guy who wants to come back, and if it's your choice, then you would. But it's a combination of choices.

Steve Kerr (30:31)

Yeah, it's. It's a. This is a really interesting situation, and I'm very respectful of the organization and their.

Charles Bethea (30:41)

Their

Steve Kerr (30:43)

place in the universe right now, and I. I know how this stuff works. There's. Most coaching runs just last a certain amount of time, and. And then it's. You know, it's best for everybody to move forward. And what we have to figure out is. Is now that time. Because what. What complicates it is, you know, we still have Steph and Draymond and for

Charles Bethea (31:07)

another year each, right?

Steve Kerr (31:08)

Yeah, another year each on their contracts. And I don't want to abandon those guys. I love those guys, and I love working with them. I love my job. But I respect the fact that the organization has to think about what's next. And, you know, is it time to bring in someone new to sort of lay out the foundation or lay out the path and a new foundation? If that's the case, then I totally respect that. But, you know, if Steph and Draymond were retiring this year, I think this would be an easy decision. We all go out together, and we. The organization takes their new path, and. But it's not that easy because I think Steph's going to play another couple of years, and I think we can still do some good things together. But these are all conversations that will happen, you know, in the next week or two, and we'll figure it out, and whatever happens, it's going to end well.

Charles Bethea (32:09)

Fair enough. Thank you very much for your time.

Steve Kerr (32:11)

Yeah, yeah.

Charles Bethea (32:11)

I really appreciate this.

Steve Kerr (32:12)

My pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Charlie.

David Remnick (32:18)

Steve Kerr, coach of the Golden State warriors, talking with staff writer Charles Bethea. You can find their interview online@newyorker.com you can also subscribe to the magazine there as well. New yorker.com I'm David Remnick. That's the New Yorker Radio Hour for today. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

New Yorker Radio Hour Announcer (32:40)

The New Yorker Radio Hour is a co production of WNYC Studios and the New Yorker. Our theme music was composed and performed by Meryl Garbus of Tune Yards, with additional music by Louis Mitchell. This episode was produced by Max Balton, Adam Howard, David Krasnow, Jeffrey Masters, Louis Mitchell, Jared Paul and Ursula Sommer, with guidance from Emily Bottin and assistance from Michael May, David Gable, Alex Barsch, Victor Guang and Alejandra Deckett. The New Yorker Radio Hour is supported in part by the Tsarina Endowment Fund.

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