The New Yorker Radio Hour: Pete Buttigieg on Coming Out and the Next Generation of American Leadership

Date: April 5, 2019
Host: David Remnick
Guest: Pete Buttigieg, Mayor of South Bend, Democratic Presidential Candidate

Episode Overview

In this episode, host David Remnick has an in-depth conversation with then-South Bend Mayor and Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg. Focusing on Buttigieg’s rapid rise from relative obscurity to national prominence, the discussion covers intergenerational justice, the frustrations of American democracy, his military and professional background, his experience as a gay public figure, and his vision for political reform. The episode is especially notable for Buttigieg’s candid reflections on coming out, as well as his analysis of the systemic challenges facing American politics.

Key Discussion Points

1. The Democratic Party After Trump’s Election

• Obama's Unexpected Mention: Remnick opens by recalling Barack Obama's 2016 mention of Buttigieg as a promising figure for the future Democratic Party.
  • "Obama threw out a few names we all knew pretty well... Then he mentioned someone I'd never heard of, the mayor of South Bend, Indiana." (00:30)
• Buttigieg’s positioning: just to the left of centrists like Joe Biden, but right of Sanders and Warren.

2. Analyzing the 2016 Loss and "Brokenness" in U.S. Politics

• Buttigieg remarks that Trump’s election surfaced deep problems in America's political and economic systems.
  • "A figure like Donald Trump doesn't just become possible unless there's a real sense of brokenness..." (01:57)
• Democratic message was not convincing to Midwestern working class voters, whose lives hadn’t improved as promised.

3. Generational Change and "Intergenerational Justice"

• Discusses age dynamics, noting the field’s oldest and youngest candidates.
• Buttigieg emphasizes the importance of a new generation.
  • "The consequences for my generation of the decisions being made right now are enormous." (03:10)
• Intergenerational justice, especially as it relates to climate change and issues like reparations, is a core theme.
  • "If we were properly accounting for the consequences for my generation... we'd be having a debate over how we could possibly afford to do anything but a major mobilization around this issue." (04:38)

4. Experience and Qualifications

• Addresses criticism of his limited experience as "just" a mayor.
  • "It's no less audacious and a little bit obscene for any mortal to look at that office and think... they could just walk in." (05:58)
• Details mayoral responsibilities, including crisis management and economic development, as highly relevant.
• Notes his military experience is deeper than most presidential candidates since G.H.W. Bush.

5. Work at McKinsey & Company

• Defends his work at McKinsey, explaining he focused on grocery pricing and renewable energy.
• Expresses strong criticism of McKinsey's work with Purdue Pharma and foreign dictators.
  • "My community has been harmed by irresponsible behavior of corporations in the opioid industry. And I think it shocks the conscience anytime that a murderous dictator can rely on the legitimacy of a Western consulting company..." (09:00)

6. Navigating Identity Politics and Being "Gay Enough"

• Reacts to media and public speculation about whether he's perceived as "gay enough."
  • "I'm not interested in getting into a kind of oppression Olympics over who has suffered in which ways for being gay or any other kind of minority." (10:25)
• Hopes his experiences build solidarity with all marginalized people.

7. Coming Out and Personal Growth

• Buttigieg explains the long personal and legal journey before coming out.
  • "I realized that I couldn't go on like that forever." (11:42)
  • Military deployment shifted his perspective: "You only get to live one life and be one person." (12:20)
• Describes writing a "just in case" letter to his family before deployment.
  • "I began to feel a little bit humiliated about the idea that my life could come to an end... and have no idea what it was like to be in love." (13:00)
• Came out to his parents after his return.

8. First Policy Priority: Democratic Reform

• States his first priority would be fixing democratic institutions.
  • "The condition of our democracy is diminished and the worse it gets, the harder it will become for us to fix anything else." (13:51)
• Mentions voter suppression, redistricting, campaign finance, DC statehood, Supreme Court reform, and the filibuster as areas for immediate action.

9. Supreme Court Reform

• Advocates for reforms that depoliticize the Court, referencing potential models for expanding membership.
  • "It's about a structural reform that will make that body less political." (15:37)
• Suggests a 15-member court, with a mix of politically and non-politically appointed judges.

10. Defeating Donald Trump: A Strategy

• Cautions against making the campaign all about Trump.
  • "Any energy or attention, including critical energy or attention that comes his way, is something that he absorbs and feeds off of and becomes bigger from." (18:30)
• Focus should be on offering a positive alternative and vision for the future, not just fact-checking or countering his personality.
  • "Pointing out all the ways in which he's terrible does not amount to a message." (19:50)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On generational responsibility:
  "Almost by definition, the longer you're planning to be here, the more you have at stake." — Pete Buttigieg (03:13)
• On experience:
  "I would argue that the set of experiences I have is about as relevant as it can get without having already been president." — Pete Buttigieg (06:17)
• On coming out:
  "I realized that I couldn't go on like that forever... you only get to live one life and be one person." — Pete Buttigieg (11:43, 12:20)
• On first policy priority:
  "The condition of our democracy is diminished, and the worse it gets, the harder it will become for us to fix anything else, any of the top issues we care about." — Pete Buttigieg (13:51)
• On defeating Trump:
  "If you really want to defeat him, you have to create an environment where it’s not all about him... pointing out all the ways in which he's terrible does not amount to a message." — Pete Buttigieg (18:30, 19:50)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Obama’s reference to Buttigieg and 2016 political context: 00:10–01:53
• Buttigieg on brokenness and Trump’s appeal: 01:53–02:47
• Generational politics and age in the race: 02:47–04:23
• Intergenerational justice and climate change: 04:23–05:35
• Debating experience and qualifications for the presidency: 05:35–07:39
• Military and McKinsey background, McKinsey controversy: 07:39–09:30
• Media and public perceptions of his identity: 09:30–11:29
• Story of coming out and its emotional impact: 11:29–13:29
• First policy priority—democratic reform: 13:37–15:26
• Supreme Court reform and constitutional change: 15:26–16:45
• Why fix democracy before other policies: 16:45–17:59
• How to defeat Trump—what doesn’t work, what does: 17:59–19:50

Conclusion

This episode delivers thoughtful insight into the mindset and policy priorities of Pete Buttigieg at a pivotal moment in his political career. Remnick’s probing questions elicit revealing answers about Buttigieg’s views on generational change, his unique experience, the importance of democratic reform, and the personal journey of coming out. Buttigieg emerges as both candid and strategic—driven by a sense of history and an understanding of what it will take to move America forward.