The Rippling Effects of China’s One-Child Policy

Summary

The Rippling Effects of China’s One-Child Policy

The New Yorker Radio Hour – August 9, 2019
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Nanfu Wang (filmmaker, creator of One Child Nation), Jia Lynn Yang (New Yorker staff writer, interviewer)

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Overview

This episode centers on the profound impact of China’s one-child policy – both at a macro-societal level and within individual families. Filmmaker Nanfu Wang discusses her acclaimed documentary, One Child Nation, which delves into the personal and generational trauma wrought by the policy. The conversation, led by Jia Lynn Yang, explores themes of propaganda, reproductive rights, intergenerational pain, and the power and limitations of art to shift collective memory.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The "Taboo" of Overpopulation and the One-Child Policy

• [00:08] David Remnick introduces the context: Overpopulation is a rarely addressed, near-taboo subject, and China’s drastic attempt to control it via the one-child policy provides a powerful, if brutal, example.
• The policy, implemented from the late 1970s to 2015, is still reverberating through Chinese society.

Personal Motivations for Making One Child Nation

• [01:12] Nanfu Wang explains her impetus as both a native-born Chinese citizen under the policy and a new mother, which prompted her to re-examine family history and the policy’s effects.
  • She recalls learning, late in life, about her own mother’s coerced sterilization:

    “Being pregnant and having my first child really made me question a lot of the things that I never thought about...I started asking my mom what it was like for her generation when they had to be sterilized by the government.” (C, 01:38)

The Internalization of Propaganda

• [02:20] Both Wang and Yang note how ubiquitous propaganda normalized the policy:
  • Wang shares:

    "It was like a tree standing there. It's a wall...at some point you just stop paying attention to it. You assume that it's a normal part of existence of the universe." (C, 03:22)

• The policy was so ingrained that questioning it was almost unthinkable for young people in China.

Family Participation and Intergenerational Pain

• [04:25] Wang discusses the challenges and emotional labor of involving her relatives in her film, noting varying degrees of reluctance, especially from her uncle, whose harrowing story features prominently.
• [05:47] The story of her uncle abandoning his newborn daughter due to family pressure—a profound moment from the documentary—is discussed in painful detail.
  • Wang recounts:

    “He stood there across the street, watched to see if somebody would come and take the baby...but then his mom threatened to commit suicide and he couldn't do that. And he felt so torn. There was no right decision.” (C, 06:19)

• [07:15] Yang reflects on the randomness and cruelty of who gets to live, noting her own “boy’s name” and the strange pride and survivor’s guilt accompanying it.

The Significance of Names

• [08:58] Both speakers discuss the cultural legacy of gender preference embedded even in the names given to girls.
  • Wang explains:

    "Nan means man and Fu means pillar...they hope that even though I was a girl, that I could be like a man and be the pillar of the family." (C, 08:58)

  • Both women share conflicted, even proud, feelings toward their inherited names and familial expectations.

Reproductive Rights—China and the U.S.

• [09:47] Wang observes the irony in moving from a country enforcing abortions to one debating abortion rights:

  • “Restriction of reproductive rights is not unique to China...I would have assumed in a country where respect of freedom...would have recognized the reproductive rights for women as the basic rights. But it wasn't that case.” (C, 10:07)

• The discussion invites American listeners to reflect on their own culture and propaganda regarding women’s bodies.

The Legacy and Future of Family Planning in China

• [11:00] Wang is asked about the end of the policy and hopes for greater freedom:
  • Expresses pessimism due to increasing surveillance and repression in China.

    • "I really wanted to be optimistic, but I don't think that I am optimistic." (C, 11:25)

Resistance to Changing Perspectives

• [12:18] Wang describes her mother’s reaction to the film: Even after viewing, her mother insists the policy was necessary, demonstrating the enduring power of state propaganda.

  • “She said it was so true what you showed in the film...But I still think the policy was necessary. So she was really. I think it really struck me how effective the propaganda was.” (C, 12:33)

Censorship and Hope for Change

• [13:05] Discussion of whether the film can be shown in China:
  • It’s being shown in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and via underground venues in mainland China. Wang maintains that “awareness is the first step toward change.” (C, 13:46)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I am a product of the one child policy...a family could be defined by anything other than a mother, a father and a child.” (B, 02:20)
• “There is this element of just a very cruel lottery at work who determines who dies and who lives. Seems very, very random.” (B, 07:15)
• “Restriction of reproductive rights is not unique to China...what women should or should not do with their own body should be their own choice.” (C, 10:07)
• “If the country would ever change, the first step would be the awareness for people to know what happened. Then once their awareness starts to change, that’s when their action would be changed too.” (C, 13:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:08-01:06 – Introduction, background on the one-child policy
• 01:12-02:20 – Nanfu Wang’s motivations for making the film
• 03:22-04:25 – Propaganda’s effect and normalization of the policy
• 05:47-08:58 – Family pain, the “lottery” of surviving as a girl, gendered names
• 09:47-11:00 – The irony of reproductive rights: China vs. U.S.
• 11:00-12:18 – The legacy of the policy and pessimism about reform in China
• 12:18-13:05 – Family reactions to the film and the power of propaganda
• 13:05-13:46 – Censorship and hope for gradual change via awareness

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Conclusion

This revealing and moving conversation shows how deeply the one-child policy shaped and scarred generations, especially women. Wang’s film and personal journey expose the intertwining of private grief and public policy, challenging listeners to reconsider assumptions about propaganda, gender, and reproductive autonomy—both in China and worldwide.

Transcript

[A]

This is the New Yorker Radio Hour. I'm David Remnick. Behind the environmental crisis and everything that you've heard about human impact on the planet, there's another crisis that you don't hear much about at all, because even the word is practically taboo at this point. Overpopulation. We're pushing toward 8 billion people on the planet. Hardly any government wants to do anything about it, and certainly not ours. That may be largely because of the examples set by China. Historically, China did do something about overpopulation, something drastic and ultimately brutal. From the 1970s until 2015, China put into effect the one child policy. And the consequences of that policy will be felt for generations. Nan Fu Wang is a filmmaker, and her documentary One Child Nation looks at the toll that policy took on her family. She talked with Jiang Fan, who's a staff writer at the New Yorker.

[B]

Can you briefly explain why you chose to make a film about the one child policy?

[C]

So China's one child policy started in 1979 and ended at the end of 2015. I was born in 1985, six years after the one child policy started. My co director, Jia Ling, was born in 1983 or 84, I believe. And we both grew up under the policy. And for me, I became a mother two years ago.

[B]

Congratulations.

[C]

Thank you. And being pregnant and having my first child really made me question a lot of the things that I never thought about. I just couldn't imagine how millions of women lived under the fear of not knowing whether they could protect the child that they were pregnant with. And I started asking my mom what it was like for her generation when they had to be sterilized by the government. And what she told me made me realize that I really didn't know the one child policy at all.

[B]

I am a product of the one child policy. I was born in Chongqing and moved here at the age of seven. And what I remember of that experience was the posters of two parents and one child plastered on every available surface and also in all textbooks. And of course, I was too young to question that a family could be defined by anything other than a mother, a father, and a child. For you who stayed in China past your adolescence and spent your young adulthood there, was there questioning or interrogating why it is that families have to be policed in this way. Was there at all what was that process of questioning like, if there was a process? Before coming to the US I don't.

[C]

Think I had questioned the one child policy to that extent. When I was in China, the message was everywhere and Everywhere you could see, it was like a tree standing there. It's a wall building there. It's like a building that you go to school and you pass by every day. So at some point you just stop paying attention to it. You assume that it's a normal part of existence of the universe, and you don't know that it's something that is initiated and implemented by the authority, by a visible hand. You assume it's the background of your life is normal part of everything. Just like water as air exists there. I wish I could say something to my mom. Like most people in China, she believes the policy was necessary for China's survival. But I wondered if people like her really thought it was worth the sacrifices each family made.

[B]

What I found really poignant about the documentary was the number of your family members that featured in it. And I wondered what that process was like, asking your mother and brother and grandfather and aunts and uncles to be involved. How much convincing did it take you?

[C]

Yeah, all of them, to a certain extent, was reluctant to for different reasons. My grandpa, my strategy, I told him I wanted to record your whole life story on camera as a record, so my son, your great grandson, grow up. He could understand and know you in a way. And so I actually talked to him for over five hours and literally from the moment he was born to now. And my brother was shy. He didn't want to be on camera. And he did it for me. And I think my mom also did it because I was her daughter. She would do anything I asked her. And my uncle was really hard for me to request the interview because I knew how painful it would be for him to tell the story about the daughter that he gave away. He left to die.

[B]

Right? I mean, that was one of the most gut wrenching moments in the film, I think, you know, your uncle just in brief, describes this experience of being, you know, forced to let his firstborn, a girl, die because the family just wanted a boy so badly. Can you take us through kind of what happened after your uncle abandoned his daughter at the market and how that story lived in the family?

[C]

I think I was old enough. I was a child. I don't remember how many years. I was like six or something when my mom actually helped my uncle to take the baby to the market. And only until now I was making the film and asked my mom, and my mom, of course, told the story in the much more vivid way. And then when I approached my uncle and he told me the story from his first person perspective, which was he stood there across the street, watched to see if somebody would come and take the baby and watched the baby cry and wanted to bring her home. But then his mom threatened to commit suicide and he couldn't do that. And he felt so torn. There was no right decision, like he believed that his mom was going to commit suicide, which we all believe.

[B]

I told my mother about that moment in the film immediately after watching it, because it haunted me so much, because I think your uncle's description of the mosquito bites that plagued the little girl as she was left in the market was so incredibly vivid. And I felt this strange guilt of being alive because it felt it was just by sheer luck that I also in China, was born and got to be kept. And there is this element of just a very cruel lottery at work who determines who dies and who lives. Seems very, very random. And you know, your name is Nan Fu. And Nan, I know, is the character for man or boy. And for me too, my name is Jia Yang, which it's more of a boy's name than a girl's. And it was born out of my parents desire that I would be a boy. And in a way, I have this very strange relationship with my name where I'm perversely proud of it because I think, well, you know, I made it, you know, the faded boy did not. And I'm here to stay. And I always in China am addressed, you know, on emails as Mr. Fan, you know, But I was wondering what your relationship with your name has been.

[C]

So, yeah, Nan means man and Fu means pillar. Pillar of the family, pillar of the country. And when I was a child, they've told me that they gave me the name and they hope that even though I was a girl, that I could be like a man and be the pillar of the family. And when my father passed away and I was 12, it became something that I felt it was his hope for, for me and it's something that he left for me. So weirdly enough, like you said, I also felt proud of my name. Right. In a way that like, I would often like have that kind of conversation with my dad after he died. As I go, look, dad, I made it like, I am stronger than men now, right? Yeah.

[B]

So toward the end of the documentary, you mentioned the irony in the fact that you left a country that enforced abortions to go to a country, the us, that restricts and debates the right to abortion. Can you talk a little bit about this irony? Yeah.

[C]

Restriction of reproductive rights is not unique to China. And we really wanted people who are outside of China, to see the film and to really reflect on their own society, to look at where the propaganda is and whether they have mistaken propaganda as the truth on what women should or should not do with their own body should be their own choice. And I think in America, where I now live, I would have assumed in a country where respect of freedom and the respect of rights would have recognized the reproductive rights for women as the basic rights. But it wasn't that case. And to me, that was just really sad and shocking to see.

[B]

In 2015, we got the news that the party ended the one child policy. What is your idea of China's family planning model today? And are you optimistic that this society will encourage more freedoms?

[C]

I really wanted to be optimistic, but I don't think that I am optimistic. Especially over the past three or four years, I've seen how the society got tightened up even more, how the VPNs are being cracked down and how more and more activists were arrested and how the civil society is even more closed than before.

[B]

Yeah. So the answer is a resounding no.

[C]

Yeah. And we now have a president who has like a limited term.

[B]

Yes. We now have an emperor in effect. So has your mom and brother watched the film and has it done anything to change their perspective?

[C]

My mom and my brother were both at the premiere at Sundance in January. It was the first time they ever came to, like, a screening of my films. My mom, her entire life in the village, she's never been to a movie theater.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

Yeah. So my mom watched it and then she said it was so true what you showed in the film. It was exactly like what I saw, what I like. And what I saw is even worse. I've seen way worse than this. But I still think the policy was necessary. So she was really. I think it really struck me how effective the propaganda was.

[B]

Will this documentary be screened ever in China? Is it allowed to be screened in China?

[C]

It has been shown in Hong Kong, it will be shown in Taiwan and we also have screening in a lot of like Mandarin speaking, Chinese speaking areas and in China. Some independent film festivals have reached out and wanted to show underground screenings. And if the country would ever change, the first step would be the awareness for people to know what happened. Then once their awareness start to change, that's when their action would be changed too.

[A]

Filmmaker Nan Fu Wang, whose documentary One Child Nation is in the theaters now, she spoke with the New Yorker's Jaeong Phan. I'm David Remnick. And that's it for today. Thanks for being with us. And if you've enjoyed the show, I just want to remind you, you can subscribe to the podcast and catch up on anything you miss.

[B]

Missed.

[A]

See you next time.