Podcast Summary: "The Rise of the Ku Klux Klan"

The New Yorker Radio Hour – January 23, 2018
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Linda Gordon (historian, author of The Second Coming of the KKK), Andrew Morantz (New Yorker writer)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the alarming resurgence and deep-rooted influence of the Ku Klux Klan in American society, particularly during its rebirth in the 1920s, as detailed in Linda Gordon’s book, The Second Coming of the KKK. The conversation draws sobering parallels between that era and today’s political climate, discussing how white supremacist ideology seeped into mainstream American life, government, and policy, and connecting those threads to current movements and rhetoric. The episode transitions into a discussion with Andrew Morantz about the modern alt right, media manipulation, and shifting boundaries of public discourse.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Klan’s Penetration of Mainstream American Life

[00:29–02:37]

• In the 1920s, the Klan evolved from a Southern terror organization into a nationwide movement.
• Their targets expanded: not just African Americans but also Jews, Catholics, immigrants of all backgrounds.
• The Klan counted millions of members, including politicians:
  • "The northern 1920s Klan elected 11 governors, 45 congressmen, and... hundreds of... officials." (Linda Gordon, [01:52])
• Klan membership was open and public—members ran for office as Klansmen.

2. Legislative Victories and Cultural Influence

[02:37–04:34]

• Their crowning legislative achievement:
  • The 1924 Immigration Law—America's first federal immigration restriction, “instilling the Klan’s exact hierarchy” of ethnic desirability into law.
  • Effects lasted until 1965, impacting Jewish refugees fleeing Nazism.
• The Klan campaigned to ban Catholic schools, wielding propaganda and fake news:
  • "The Pope set the curriculum and was trying to undermine Americans." (Linda Gordon, [03:32])
• Violence and exclusion were packaged as patriotism and mainstream values.

3. Rituals, Boredom, and Mainstreaming Hate

[04:45–06:43]

• The Klan’s theatrical rituals mirrored other fraternal orders, making membership feel community-oriented.
• Decline of the Klan:
  • Caused partly by internal boredom, but largely due to success; their bigotry became normalized.
• "Their tremendous impact for a long time [was] on public opinion, legitimating a... discourse that was... damaging." (Linda Gordon, [07:06])

4. Echoes in Contemporary America

[07:38–13:46]

• Parallels between Klan-era fear-mongering and today’s politics:
  • Fear as a political motivator: Immigrants depicted as economic threats, even in places with few immigrants.
  • Gullibility and trust: Religious leaders helped spread Klan propaganda.
  • Populism and elitism: The Klan held up the wealthy as examples (“be sure that you elect a ‘big man’” [10:15]), echoing distortions in today’s “populist” movements.
• Dangers of dismissing hate groups:
  • "Disdainful put-downs... just made the Klan grow... against these ‘liberal, cosmopolitan urban elites.’" (Linda Gordon, [11:38])
• Enduring nature of bigotry:
  • "It's probably true that [bigotry] can never be entirely stomped out... But it can be resisted and controlled." (Linda Gordon, [12:36])
• Hope in activism: Modern resistance is strong and mobilized.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Harry Truman was a member of the Klan.”
  – Linda Gordon, [01:45]
  Historical shock; reveals the extent of Klan’s acceptability at the time.

• “The Klan’s biggest achievement is the hardest to measure... legitimating a discourse... associated with patriotic Americanism.”
  – Linda Gordon, [07:11]
  Powerful insight into how hate becomes normalized under the guise of patriotism.

• “Disdainful put-downs... made the Klan literally grow and build its resentment against these ‘liberal, cosmopolitan urban elites.’”
  – Linda Gordon, [11:38]
  Warning against writing off hate as simply ignorant or fringe.

• “We’ve met the enemy...and he is us. The Plague of xenophobia, racism and nationalism is always present.”
  – Quoted by David Remnick from Clay Risen’s NYT review, [12:04]
  Reflection on the cyclical and persistent nature of American bigotry.

Modern Resonances: The Alt Right, Public Opinion & The Overton Window

1. Legacy in the Era of Trump and White Nationalism

[13:54–21:13]

• White supremacy’s proximity to power: Remnick notes Trump’s equivocation on white supremacist support and racist comments ([13:54]).
• Andrew Morantz connects 1920s Klan publicness with today’s far-right rallies and internet organizing.

2. Shifting Boundaries – The Overton Window

[16:48–17:54]

• The Overton Window: public discourse has limits; the “unsayable” can be made sayable with repetition.
• The alt right doesn’t seek mass appeal—they aim to shift what is talked about.
• “They keep saying it and saying it...over time, ...mainstream conservatives start picking up on it.” (Andrew Morantz, [17:58])
• Example: Fox News’ Tucker Carlson referencing demographic “replacement”—a concept that originated on the far right.

3. From Fringe to Policy

[20:13–21:11]

• Changes to American identity and immigration discourse:
  • Before, both parties stressed “nation of immigrants,” but “Trump...attempts to shatter the Overton Window with respect to what is sayable.” (Andrew Morantz, [20:46])
• Such shifts test the boundaries of acceptable conversation and policy.

Important Timestamps

• 00:29 – Introduction to Linda Gordon and historical context of the Klan
• 01:45 – Discussion of Harry Truman’s association with the Klan
• 02:41 – The Klan’s legislative achievements, especially the 1924 Immigration Law
• 03:32 – Fake news and Klan propaganda against Catholics
• 07:38 – Parallels between 1920s Klan and present-day politics
• 10:13 – Klan’s image as an elite, not just a populist movement
• 12:04 – Reflection on whether racism can ever be eradicated
• 13:54 – Relevance to Trump era and rise of the alt right
• 16:48 – Explanation of the Overton Window
• 17:58 – “White genocide” conspiracy theory moving from fringe to mainstream
• 20:13 – How open bigotry is affecting American politics and policy

Tone and Style

• Analytical, compassionate, and historically grounded.
• Linda Gordon emphasizes understanding over simple condemnation:
  • “I didn’t want to waste my time just telling people how horrible the Klan was and condemning it. I wanted people to understand it.” ([05:26])
• David Remnick’s questions highlight the discomfort and urgency of these lessons for today.

Closing Thoughts

The episode powerfully connects past and present, urging listeners not to dismiss hate as a relic or a fringe matter, but to confront how easily it can become mainstream. It ends with a reminder that vigilance, resistance, and critical engagement are the only ways to contain bigotry’s recurring threat.

For further reading:

• The Second Coming of the KKK by Linda Gordon
• Reporting by Andrew Morantz on the alt right at newyorker.com

(Note: Sections on TV, recent music, and sneaker recommendations follow, but core content ends at [21:11].)