The New Yorker Radio Hour: The Writer Katie Kitamura on Autonomy, Interpretation, and “Audition”
Released on April 8, 2025, this episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour features an in-depth conversation between Jennifer Wilson, a critic at The New Yorker, and acclaimed novelist Katie Kitamura. Hosted by David Remnick, the episode delves into Kitamura’s latest work, her artistic inspirations, and the intricate themes woven into her novel “Audition.”
Introduction to "Audition"
Katie Kitamura introduces her new novel, Audition, providing listeners with an overview of its central narrative and thematic concerns.
Katie Kitamura [00:38]: “Katie Kitamura's new novel, Audition, is about a middle-aged actress living in New York City who meets a much younger man, a playwright. And the two embark on a kind of undefined relationship that's mysterious to us as readers. We have to kind of interpret for really long periods of the novel what's going on between them.”
Audition is set against the backdrop of the theatrical world, exploring the complexities of roles—both on stage and in personal relationships. Kitamura emphasizes the protagonist's struggle with gender roles and the expectations placed upon her in her relationship with the younger man.
Kitamura [00:38]: “...this is a novel about roles. And this is also a character who's trying to figure out gender roles. You know, what kind of figure should she be to this young man? Is she a romantic? Is she a maternal figure? What are the appropriate gender roles for a woman...”
Themes of Autonomy and Interpretation
The conversation delves into Kitamura’s fascination with interpretation, a recurring theme in her work.
Kitamura [02:05]: “I mean, I really wanted interpretation to be at the center of this novel in a funny way, even more than in my last novel, where the character is literally a simultaneous interpreter... I wanted the reader to also be trying, alongside all the characters... to understand what is happening between those two central characters.”
Kitamura discusses her interest in passive characters and how they reflect the limited agency individuals often experience in real life.
Kitamura [02:05]: “...characters who maybe understand that passivity a little bit more than other people might and who are trying to grapple with what that means.”
Performance in Daily Life
Exploring the concept of performance beyond the theatrical stage, Kitamura relates it to everyday interactions.
Kitamura [03:56]: “...performance is present in our day to day lives. Even now, as we're talking to each other, even in our most intimate moments, we're always playing parts of some kind or another.”
She highlights the seamless transition between different roles people adopt in various aspects of their lives, illustrating this with personal anecdotes.
Kitamura [03:56]: “...I can be talking to my husband... and then my children... my voice will almost go up half an octave. The vocabulary changes completely...”
Middle Age and Narrative Structure
Kitamura contrasts the traditional coming-of-age narrative with her portrayal of a middle-aged protagonist, emphasizing the less linear progression of the latter.
Kitamura [05:53]: “...the narrative that is much less clear even now is a narrative of what happens to a woman, particularly in the middle of her life... she's not following something by rote. And so in a lot of ways, I think that's why it felt right for me for the narrative to fracture in a lot of ways...”
She critiques the cultural tendency to center narratives around youth, advocating for more stories that reflect the complexities of middle age.
Age-Gap Relationships in Culture
Discussing the fascination with relationships between older women and younger men in popular culture, Kitamura explores its transgressive nature.
Kitamura [07:51]: “I think the inversion of it feels exciting. It feels like it's centering female desire in a way that is new. And I think it still feels in some way transgressive...”
She attributes this fascination to a cultural shift towards acknowledging female desire, while also noting the lingering taboos surrounding such dynamics.
Setting in New York City and Horror Influences
Kitamura explains her return to setting her novel in New York City, a departure from her previous international settings, and discusses the influence of the horror genre on Audition.
Kitamura [10:08]: “There's a lot of fiction that is set in New York... I found myself thinking about horror as a genre the most, probably.”
She draws parallels between the atmospheric tension in horror and the suspenseful elements in her novel, emphasizing the emotional buildup rather than overt violence.
Kitamura [12:05]: “Horror is an interesting genre in that the moments that are frightening are often not when the monster appears, but all of the moments leading up to it...”
Depiction of Workplace Dynamics
Kitamura shares her love for workplace novels, highlighting how workplaces reflect broader social structures and power dynamics.
Kitamura [13:43]: “...the workplace is a really interesting space. It's a physical space that has so many very particular rules and cultures...”
She underscores the novel’s ability to depict individual interactions within institutional frameworks without explicitly stating structural hierarchies.
Kitamura [15:36]: “...the relationship between the individual and a larger social structure. And that is what makes novels special.”
Political Context and the Importance of Language
Addressing the political atmosphere during the novel's creation, Kitamura discusses the crucial role of language and literature in societal discourse.
Kitamura [16:25]: “...novels and writing in general feels incredibly important because it is already clear in the new administration that language is going to be a terrain where a substantial part of this battle is going to be fought.”
She emphasizes the responsibility of writers to preserve the precision and meaning of language amidst political manipulation.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Kitamura reflects on the significance of her work in contemporary culture, reaffirming the novel’s exploration of personal and societal issues through nuanced storytelling.
Kitamura [17:51]: “Katie, thank you so much.”
The episode concludes with acknowledgments and a brief recap of Kitamura’s contributions to literature and academia.
Key Takeaways:
- Audition navigates complex themes of autonomy, interpretation, and gender roles within the theatrical setting of New York City.
- Kitamura challenges traditional narrative structures by focusing on a middle-aged protagonist, highlighting the often-overlooked experiences of women in this stage of life.
- The novel incorporates elements of horror, particularly the tension and anticipation that define the genre, to deepen its psychological impact.
- Workplace dynamics are portrayed as microcosms of larger societal structures, allowing for intricate explorations of power and individual agency.
- In a politically charged environment, Kitamura underscores the enduring importance of precise and meaningful language in literature.
This episode offers a comprehensive look into Katie Kitamura’s literary philosophies and the underpinnings of her latest novel, providing valuable insights for both avid readers and aspiring writers.