The New Yorker Radio Hour – “Virtual Reality, and the Politics of Genetics”

Date: June 16, 2017
Host: David Remnick
Production: WNYC Studios and The New Yorker

Overview

This episode explores two ambitious and timely topics: the philosophical, social, and political implications of genetics, featuring Pulitzer Prize-winning physician and author Siddhartha Mukherjee; and the emerging world of virtual reality, both as an artistic medium and technological frontier. The episode also features lighter segments on digital nostalgia, cinematic oddities, and the art of sound effects.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

I. The Politics and Ethics of Genetics

Guest: Siddhartha Mukherjee
Segment Start: 01:44

A. Personal Roots of Genetic Inquiry

• Family History and Mental Illness:
  • Mukherjee recounts his early understanding of mental illness in his family, noting how denial was prevalent in his Bengali family.
  • Quote:

    “My family had elevated denial to a high museum grade art form.”
    — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([03:25])

  • Several close relatives on his father’s side suffered from mental illness.

B. Genetics: Promise and Peril

• Comparison with the Atom:

  • Drawing an analogy to the discovery of nuclear technology, Mukherjee notes that genetic knowledge brings immense power and risk.
  • Quote:

    “The genome also opens up that idea of promise and peril… curing deadly diseases… but the peril is also questions like identity.”
    — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([05:43])

• Real-World Impacts:

  • Sex-selective abortion in India and China is already skewing demographics via crude genetic diagnosis.
  • Quote:

    “The tragedy is not tomorrow’s tragedy, it is today’s tragedy. In fact, it's yesterday’s tragedy.”
    — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([07:19])

C. Motivations for Writing “The Gene: An Intimate History”

• Intertwines family experience, cancer research (cancer as a genetic disease), and the new era of gene editing technologies (CRISPR).
• Quote:

  “We have begun to invent technologies that allow us to change the human genome. And there’s no other way to say it.”
  — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([08:23])

D. CRISPR and Gene Editing

• Explains CRISPR as a “molecular scissors” adapted from bacterial immune systems, now enabling targeted human gene editing.
• Quote:

  “You could piggyback on that system and basically cut up any part of the human genome.”
  — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([08:52])

• Potential to cure genetic diseases permanently, inheritable across generations, if edited at the embryonic stage.

E. The Complexity and Beauty of the Genome

• The genome as a “66-volume encyclopedia” unique to each person yet inscrutable without understanding.
• Quote:

  “What’s unsettlingly beautiful about the human genome is that it takes that code…and makes you and me out of that code.”
  — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([10:22])

F. Nature vs. Nurture and Epigenetics

• Discusses how identical twins can diverge in health due to environmental triggers or random chance.
• Quote:

  “…What we used to call fate or destiny is really a combination of random chance and environmental triggers impinging on the genome.”
  — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([13:15])

G. Genetics, Identity, and Politics

• Genetics influences attitudes towards race, sexuality, and identity — "human debates” with scientific foundations.
• Race:
  • Greater genetic differences within Africa than between Africans and Europeans.
  • Quote:

    “You can actually say very little about what the word race means…The genomic geographer goes home happy, the racist has nothing to ask for or to say for it.”
    — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([16:36])

• Sexuality:
  • Twin studies indicate a strong genetic component to sexuality, refuting “choice” arguments.
• Warns that scientific nuances are generally absent from public and political debates.

H. The Ethics and Global Politics of Genetic Engineering

• National (and international) debates needed over the moral limits of genome editing.
  • Example: U.S. moratorium vs. China’s willingness to proceed.
  • Quote:

    “We need to define moral red lines.”
    — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([19:00])

  • Recognizes cultural differences in the value placed on embryos, and thus in policies.
• Urges the public to develop a “vocabulary of genes” to participate in debates.

II. The New Frontier of Virtual Reality

Host: Andrew Morantz
Segment Start: 22:39

A. The VR Empathy Machine

• Chris Milk’s VR Project:
  • Presented a virtual reality story of a Syrian refugee girl, Sidra, aiming to foster empathy ([22:50]).
  • Milk’s TED Talk spurred discussion on whether VR can create transformative human connection.
  • “We become more compassionate, we become more empathetic…” — Chris Milk (quoted, [23:36])

B. Storytelling Challenges and Innovation

• VR’s potential compared to the earliest days of film — having the “camera” but not yet the “movies.”
  — Janet Murray, Georgia Tech ([24:38])
• Highlights “Blackout,” an experimental VR project set on a NY subway, granting viewers interactive access to the inner thoughts of other passengers ([25:45]).
  • Quote:

    “You can look at the different passengers and actually hear what they’re thinking.”
    — James George ([25:45])

  • Use of DepthKit to film actors in 3D, stitching together their performances for an explorable environment.

C. The Tension Between Passive and Interactive Media

• Debates about blending the best of passive (film) and interactive (gaming) storytelling ([27:47]).
• Blackout attempts interactive, dynamic narratives with real actors, a new hybrid genre.

D. Technical and Philosophical Hurdles

• Immersive experiences often feel isolating, challenging assumptions about VR as an “empathy machine.”
  • Quote:

    “It's a very strange, in a lot of ways, isolating experience. It’s just you…with a headset strapped to your face.”
    — Monica Ratchic ([32:17])

• The ultimate value of VR rests as much on storytelling as on hardware advances.
  • Quote:

    “It is a weird thing that you put on your face is the safe description of what it is currently.”
    — James George ([33:16])

E. Reggie Watts on Virtual, Real, and Simulated Realities

Segment Start: 34:39

• Comically blurs the lines between reality and simulation in his trademark style.
  • Quote:

    “Reality, real reality is much better than virtual reality at being real reality…nothing is better than real reality itself.”
    — Reggie Watts ([34:39])

  • Pokes fun at philosophical and experiential aspects of VR.
  • Suggests, ambiguously, that someday VR and real reality could converge.

III. Digital Nostalgia, Cinema Oddities, and the Art of Sound

A. Tech Time Capsule: Archive.org and Crossframed.com

Segment Start: 36:35 (Monica Ratchic)

• Archive.org preserves vintage software and games, playable via browser ([36:49]).
• Crossframed.com offers random curated movie clips for miniature cinematic breaks ([38:26]).
  • Clips as “espresso” shots of cinema.

B. Turkish Cinema Mashups

Segment Start: 39:27

• Explores Turkey’s extravagant copyright-free remakes of Hollywood classics, e.g., “Turkish Star Wars.”

C. The Foley Artist’s Studio

Segment Start: 44:09

• Henry Finder interviews Marco Costanzo, a master sound effects creator (Foley artist).
  • Explains how everyday objects (duck feet, chamois cloth) create movie soundscapes ([46:36], [48:14]).
  • Quote:

    “What we did is went to Chinatown…they'll have a box…of duck feet. Put these duck feet on each finger…so you'd hear it on branches, wherever they were stepping on the rock.”
    — Marco Costanzo ([46:36])

  • On the sensory power of sound in memory and storytelling ([50:44]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “My family had elevated denial to a high museum grade art form.”
  — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([03:25])

• “The genome also opens up that idea of promise and peril…curing deadly diseases…the peril is also questions like identity.”
  — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([05:43])

• “The tragedy is not tomorrow’s tragedy, it is today's tragedy. In fact, it's yesterday’s tragedy.”
  — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([07:19])

• “You can actually say very little about what the word race means…The genomic geographer goes home happy, the racist has nothing to ask for or to say for it.”
  — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([16:36])

• “It's not only frustrating, it is dangerous.”
  — Siddhartha Mukherjee on ignoring scientific context in public debates ([15:52])

• "We need to define moral red lines."
  — Siddhartha Mukherjee ([19:00])

• "We become more compassionate, we become more empathetic, and ultimately we become more human. And that's how I think virtual reality has the potential to actually change the world. Thank you."
  — Chris Milk, as quoted by Andrew Morantz ([23:41])

• “It's a very strange, in a lot of ways, isolating experience. It’s just you…with a headset strapped to your face.”
  — Monica Ratchic ([32:17])

• “Reality, real reality is much better than virtual reality at being real reality…nothing is better than real reality itself.”
  — Reggie Watts ([34:39])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:44 — Introduction to genetics conversation (Remnick & Mukherjee)
• 03:25 — Mukherjee discusses mental illness in his family
• 05:43 — Genetics: promise vs. peril analogy
• 08:35 — CRISPR explained
• 10:22 — “Unsettlingly beautiful” genome and its meaning
• 13:15 — Fate, environment, and genetics
• 16:36 — Busted myths about race and genetics
• 17:59 — Politics and global divergence over gene editing
• 19:00 — Moral red lines in genetics
• 22:39 — Andrew Morantz introduces VR segment
• 25:45 — Blackout: immersive VR subway narrative
• 27:47 — Passive vs. interactive storytelling in VR
• 32:17 — Is VR really an empathy machine or an isolating experience?
• 34:39 — Reggie Watts pontificates on reality and VR
• 36:35 — Archive.org retro gaming segment
• 39:27 — Turkish cinema oddities
• 44:09 — Henry Finder's tour of Foley (sound effect) artistry

Tone & Style

The episode moves fluidly between deeply philosophical, scientific inquiry (Mukherjee and Remnick’s dialogue), curiosity-driven exploration (Andrew Morantz on VR), playful satire (Reggie Watts), and quirky appreciation for technological and artistic oddities (Monica Ratchic, Henry Finder).

Mukherjee’s segments are thoughtful, lucid, and earnest, combining personal narrative with scientific explanation. The VR discussions are equal parts excited, skeptical, and open-ended, conveying the experimental spirit of a new medium. The lighter final segments are humorous, nostalgic, and delight in discovery.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This episode offers a rich, accessible introduction to the big issues at the intersection of genetics, technology, and social values. The thoughtful discussions with Siddhartha Mukherjee bring clarity to the debate over gene editing, human identity, and the ethical pathways ahead, while the deep dive into virtual reality showcases both the ambition and ambiguity of emerging storytelling forms.

The episode is both intellectually stimulating and entertaining, with sharp insights, playful moments, and a tone that’s reflective, spirited, and very much in the New Yorker tradition.