Podcast Summary
Podcast: The New Yorker Radio Hour
Episode: Why Is Leaving MAGA So Difficult?
Host: David Remnick (WNYC Studios and The New Yorker)
Date: November 25, 2025
Guest: Rich Logis, founder of Leaving MAGA
Producer/Interviewer: Adam Howard
Overview
This episode explores why leaving the MAGA (Make America Great Again) movement is so difficult, featuring an in-depth conversation with Rich Logis, a former MAGA activist turned critic and founder of “Leaving MAGA” — a support and storytelling platform for ex-members. Logis describes his journey into and out of MAGA, analyzes the movement's psychological and social dynamics, and reflects on reconciliation, accountability, and the possibility for change.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Background on Rich Logis and His Involvement in MAGA
- Logis previously sought political alternatives, including Ralph Nader, but was drawn to Trump for his “outsider” rhetoric and perceived threat to the establishment.
- Became a passionate advocate, writer, and activist within MAGA, even producing a MAGA podcast and contributing to campaign materials (02:34).
2. The Mindset and Media Diet of MAGA Supporters
- Media Influence: Immersed in an echo chamber of MAGA media, which heavily shaped and reinforced beliefs.
“All I consumed was a very steady diet of MAGA media. It was the kind of media that I wrote for… I allowed myself to be influenced into believing that.”
(Rich Logis, 03:42) - Demonization of Opponents: Democratic Party and liberalism were portrayed as existential threats, leading to inflammatory rhetoric and personal alienation.
“Those in MAGA believe that liberalism is the source of all of our national ills… anything that even is perceived as liberalism should be considered a threat.”
(Rich Logis, 04:54)
3. The Emotional and Social Pull of MAGA
- Belonging and Community: MAGA provides deep feelings of belonging and camaraderie, which for Logis and others, became akin to a “second family”.
- Framing as Existential Battle: Members internalized the movement as “good vs. evil” and defined themselves as the “real Americans” (06:58).
“I viewed my role as being a true patriotic soldier in this existential battle of good versus evil.”
4. Turning Points and Leaving the Movement
- Slow Disenchantment: Disillusionment came from cumulative crises — Trump’s pandemic mismanagement, deception about the 2020 election, January 6th, and the Uvalde shooting.
“My epiphany happened gradually and then suddenly all at once.”
(Rich Logis, 08:36) - Critical Actions: Diversified media sources; realized he was wrong and published a public letter of renunciation on August 30, 2022 (09:45).
- Family and Friend Responses: After his public break, he received desperate messages from family members of MAGA adherents hoping for reconciliation.
5. Challenges and Costs of Leaving MAGA
- Loss of Community: Departure meant losing close relationships built within the movement, as ex-members become “the existential threat” (12:25).
- Guilt and Accountability: Logis apologizes for prior rhetoric and stresses the importance of taking responsibility.
“Someone must take responsibility for their past actions and rhetoric. I don’t believe that you can actually leave and… sever yourself from the movement unless one takes accountability.”
(Rich Logis, 13:49)
6. The Purpose and Impact of Leaving MAGA Platform
- Storytelling as Healing: Central mission is to share stories of those who left, facilitating healing and offering hope.
- Broad Diversity: Ex-members include a wide spectrum (race, sexuality, beliefs), united by a longing for belonging (15:23).
- Examples: A Black man wearing a Confederate band for community, a former Christian nationalist, a January 6th participant who later renounced Trump.
7. The Irreplaceable Figure of Trump and MAGA’s Future
- Personality Cult: MAGA’s loyalty is tightly bound to Trump’s unique persona and branding.
“He’s the person who is the expert when it comes to this form of politics… Trump is the singular figure who drives MAGA.”
(Rich Logis, 20:04, 21:26) - What Happens After Trump: Believes the movement will fragment and weaken when Trump exits the scene, leaving many at a crossroads.
8. The Jeffrey Epstein Story and MAGA’s Resilience
- Recent Scandals: Discussion on whether the renewed focus on Jeffrey Epstein might shake MAGA’s foundations (18:07).
- Unshakeable Loyalty: Some members remain devoted to Trump regardless of evidence of wrongdoing (19:30).
9. Personal Transformation and Final Reflections
- Ongoing Temptation: Nostalgia for the community persists, but Logis channels it into new, constructive endeavors (22:26).
- Skepticism and Grace: Acknowledges skepticism about his change; asks for grace towards those who genuinely change and seek forgiveness.
“What I would ask them, though, is… to consider offering grace to anyone who legitimately changes and seeks penitence.”
(Rich Logis, 23:35)
Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments
- On the pain behind devotion:
“I think a lot of MAGA support, especially those kinds of beliefs… are cries for help… a better question is, what happened to you?”
(Rich Logis, 05:30) - On reconciliation:
“Don’t give up on your close ones, because if I left and the others… it’s possible for others to leave.”
(Rich Logis, 13:19) - On accountability as rebirth:
“As part of taking responsibility… something that I refer to as becoming a born-again human being.”
(Rich Logis, 14:35) - On MAGA’s future post-Trump:
“There are going to be millions… at a political crossroads. They’re not going to have a leader anymore.”
(Rich Logis, 21:26)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Rich Logis' MAGA Involvement and Mindset: 02:34–06:42
- Personal Motivations and the "Second Family": 06:42–08:23
- Breaking Point and Public Break with MAGA: 08:23–11:31
- Cost of Leaving and New Community: 12:25–13:42
- Purpose of Leaving MAGA Platform/Stories: 13:49–16:45
- Trump's Irreplaceability and MAGA’s Future: 20:04–22:15
- Personal Transformation and Facing Skepticism: 22:15–24:32
Tone and Language
The episode is contemplative, honest, and at times vulnerable, matching the confessional and reflective tone adopted by Rich Logis as he recounts not just political stances but emotional landscapes and hard-won personal lessons.
This episode offers a rare, empathetic glimpse into the motivations and struggles of those attempting to leave the MAGA movement, while highlighting the importance of storytelling, accountability, and grace in facilitating change.