Podcast Summary: "Why Men Should Read Romance Novels"
Podcast: The New Yorker Radio Hour
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Josh Rothman (New Yorker writer), Curtis Sittenfeld (author of "Eligible")
Date: August 22, 2017
Episode Overview
This episode delves into the often-overlooked world of men reading romance novels, with a frank and lively conversation between author Curtis Sittenfeld and journalist Josh Rothman. They explore personal histories with the genre, cultural perceptions about romance fiction, the gendered marketing around these books, and the deeper truths and risks found in romantic narratives. The episode both advocates for the value of romance novels—regardless of gender—and reflects on why men are so rarely part of the acknowledged readership.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Defining Romance Novels
[01:10 - 01:54]
- Curtis Sittenfeld: Asks Rothman for his definition of a romance novel, prompting a conversation about the boundaries of the genre.
- Josh Rothman: Differentiates between "classic novels that are essentially romance-based" and more contemporary, mass-market romance (e.g., Nora Roberts).
“I think it's still pretty romantic in the sense that it's mostly about unresolved sexual tension... It's not quite about sex, basically.” – Josh Rothman [01:35]
2. Personal Gateways into the Genre
[02:01 - 02:15]
- Both Sittenfeld and Rothman describe discovering romance novels in childhood (fourth to sixth grade), with Sittenfeld citing Danielle Steele and Harlequin Romances.
“My gateway was Danielle Steele in fourth grade.” – Curtis Sittenfeld [02:15]
- Sittenfeld collects “bodice rippers” as a pre-teen, but has since shifted her reading habits.
3. Writing About Romance
[02:55 - 03:22]
- Sittenfeld clarifies that her writing often focuses on "awkward hookups" and "unrequited love and yearning"—not the neatly packaged romances found in traditional romance novels, but closely related.
“It's almost like the flip side of romance, but it's... in the neighborhood of romance.” – Curtis Sittenfeld [03:01]
4. Modernizing a Classic: Eligible & Pride and Prejudice
[03:22 - 05:13]
- Rothman and Sittenfeld discuss her novel "Eligible," a modern retelling of "Pride and Prejudice" set in Cincinnati, 2013.
- Sittenfeld describes updating the pivotal first encounter between Lizzie Bennet and Darcy, making Darcy a neurosurgeon and the meeting charged with understated, sweaty attraction:
“She like, runs her hands through her hair, and a drop of sweat flies... and lands on Darcy's white coat. And they both see it happen, but nobody says anything.” – Josh Rothman [04:49]
- Sittenfeld jokes about subjective ideas of "sexiness":
“It's funny, I don't know if that's everyone's definition of sexy. I'm glad to hear it's yours.” – Curtis Sittenfeld [05:13]
5. Gendered Barriers & Marketing of Romance Novels
[05:20 - 08:25]
- Rothman recounts how fellow male family members are surprised he reads romance novels; they default to thrillers and detective stories.
- Sittenfeld discusses the impact of book covers and marketing, which often signal to men that romance novels aren’t for them (e.g., “preppy ribbon belt” or “diamond ring” on covers).
“I think that that telegraphs to men. Unfortunately, like, this is probably not for you.” – Curtis Sittenfeld [06:09]
- She observes that her readership has long been overwhelmingly female, except for a notable New Yorker story that prompted much more feedback from men—perhaps due to a less gender-specific illustration and presentation.
6. The 'Safe Ending' Critique & Story Structure
[08:25 - 09:22]
- Rothman raises a criticism: romance novels often end at the wedding or the happy union.
- Sittenfeld defends this narrative structure, arguing that romance provides “one of the few inherent or natural narratives in human existence.”
“Romance is this thing where, like, it has the structure of a story. You don't have to impose it from the outside.” – Curtis Sittenfeld [08:50]
7. Are Romance Novels "Real"?
[09:22 - 10:23]
- Rothman asks whether romance novels depict reality or are mere scripts society follows.
- Sittenfeld asserts their realism for anyone who’s experienced a crush, while also noting the “feedback loop” between our stories/songs and our desires.
“Would people fall in love if there weren't stories about love or songs about love? ...there's almost like this feedback loop or something.” – Curtis Sittenfeld [09:49]
8. The Allure and Depth of Reading Romance
[10:23 - 12:40]
- Rothman shares advice from his teacher Edmund White: students from divorced parents often write the most romantic stories. Even if happily married, Rothman says, he remains drawn to stories of “anguished lovers.”
“My appetite for reading these stories about anguished lovers that can't get together is basically undiminished.” – Josh Rothman [10:23]
- Sittenfeld acknowledges the genre’s power to contain high stakes, deep feeling, and vulnerability—even self-destructiveness.
“There's something about, you know, romance that can be so self destructive or like you run the risk of, like, humiliating yourself or you're so vulnerable. And the fact that it's worth it to people must mean, like, it's really great...” – Curtis Sittenfeld [11:21]
9. Romance Recommendations
[12:40 - 14:00]
- Rothman asks for book suggestions for listeners new to romance novels.
- Sittenfeld offers two distinct recommendations:
- "Savage Thunder" by Johanna Lindsay—her lone surviving "bodice ripper" from boarding school (featuring a sex scene on horseback!).
- “Trix” from Alice Munro’s Runaway—a story she describes as “devastating” and lingering, both romantic and heart-crushing.
“It's taken me almost years to get over it. It's very romantic and it's very upsetting. Like, it kind of, like, crushes your heart in the best possible way.” – Curtis Sittenfeld [13:32]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “I started reading these books when I was, I don't know, probably 10.” – Josh Rothman [01:55]
- “I think that plenty of men have the capacity to take the same pleasure in a romantic story or to be moved by it.” – Curtis Sittenfeld [06:09]
- “The romantic story kind of contains everything.” – Curtis Sittenfeld [12:14]
- “Romance is this thing where, like, it has the structure of a story. You don't have to impose it from the outside.” – Curtis Sittenfeld [08:50]
Key Timestamps for Major Segments
- [01:10] – What qualifies as a romance novel?
- [02:01] – Childhood experiences reading romance
- [03:22] – Adapting “Pride and Prejudice” in Eligible
- [05:20] – Male reading habits & genre habits
- [06:09] – Gender, marketing, and book covers
- [08:25] – Story structure critique (happy endings)
- [09:22] – Are romance novels true to real experience?
- [12:40] – Recommendations for first romance novels
Tone and Style
The conversation is open, witty, and self-aware, with both Sittenfeld and Rothman expressing comfort with vulnerability, humor about gender stereotypes, and a genuine enthusiasm for the genre. Their rapport makes the defense and analysis of romance fiction inviting and relatable.
Final Takeaway
This episode encourages listeners—especially men—to rethink their assumptions about romance novels, urging more open-mindedness toward a genre that is both timelessly resonant and culturally undervalued, and showing how these stories contain as much depth and risk as any form of fiction.
Bonus:
The episode closes with Sherman Alexie reading from his story “Clean, Cleaner, Cleanest.” For notes on that segment, see the original transcript above, or listen to The New Yorker’s Writer’s Voice podcast for the full reading.