Podcast Summary: "Will the Harvey Weinstein Scandal Change America?"

The New Yorker Radio Hour
Host: David Remnick
Guests: Ronan Farrow, Alexandra Schwartz, bell hooks (plus a segment with Bruce Springsteen)
Air Date: November 17, 2017

Overview

This episode of The New Yorker Radio Hour examines the repercussions of the Harvey Weinstein scandal and explores whether the resulting wave of exposure and accountability for sexual harassment and assault represents a turning point in American culture. David Remnick speaks with Ronan Farrow, investigative journalist whose reporting was central to exposing Weinstein, Alexandra Schwartz, New Yorker staff writer, and later with feminist thinker bell hooks. The discussion navigates the complexities survivors face, the societal dynamics at play, the roots of patriarchy, and the profound reckoning now occurring in public and private spheres.

1. The Challenge of Coming Forward (00:29–04:50)

Key Discussion Points

• Why Survivors Stay Silent:

  • Farrow explains the array of factors—trauma, career fears, powerful PR and legal apparatuses—that dissuade survivors from coming forward.
  • Many, like actress Annabella Sciorra, even initially deny their experiences out of fear of being "branded" for life (03:46).

• "First paragraph in your obituary":

  • Remnick notes how revelations of sexual assault often define women forever.
  • Noteworthy quote:

    "If you come forward with this kind of an allegation, you are always a survivor with a capital S."
    — Ronan Farrow (04:07)

• Tactics of Intimidation:

  • Farrow details how Weinstein's network "went after" women and journalists, including deploying private investigators and intimidation.

Notable Quote

• On the PR machine's impact:

  "As we've chronicled in our reporting, also a really unthinkable before, I reported on this machine of private investigators and people operating undercover going after these women."
  — Ronan Farrow (04:16)

2. Cultural Impact and the Role of Fame (04:50–08:24)

Key Discussion Points

• Breaking the Story in Hollywood:

  • Schwartz reflects on why it's significant that a group of famous women came forward—unlike Anita Hill, these are women known prior to their accusations, making their stories more relatable to the public.

• Fame as a Double-Edged Sword:

  • Farrow notes fame can make stories both more credible and, paradoxically, less relatable.

  "Even I would say within that Hollywood community... I looked at these other women, Gwyneth Paltrow, Mira Sorvino, and I thought, they're so beautiful... It could have never happened to them."
  — Ronan Farrow (06:39)

• Universality of the Problem:

  • Schwartz emphasizes the #MeToo movement illustrates that harassment transcends industry, status, and renown—a problem that "goes so far beyond Hollywood" (07:14).

3. "Believe Women" & Shifting Public Reaction (07:53–11:29)

Key Discussion Points

• “Believe Women”:

  • Schwartz unpacks the phrase, clarifying it corrects for default skepticism toward women rather than demanding blind faith (07:59).

• Sense of Betrayal by Public Figures:

  • Remnick and Schwartz discuss the Louis C.K. revelations; Schwartz admits her rage and betrayal stem from C.K.'s previous self-awareness about gendered harm.

  "I felt betrayed. I think other people have felt this way by Louis, specifically... he's able to dissect this whole poison power system from a man's perspective. That is very impressive and rare. And so it feels, you know, it feels so disappointing."
  — Alexandra Schwartz (08:39)

• Men's Self-Reflection:

  • Remnick observes men now re-examine their past behavior, even if innocent, while Schwartz describes the “amazement and shock” within women's circles at men’s sudden reckoning.

  "It cannot just be on women to police this whole situation or to ask what is appropriate, what is inappropriate. It has to be everyone. And so I think just the sense that we may not be in it alone is profound."
  — Alexandra Schwartz (11:14)

4. Politics and Public Accountability (11:29–13:12)

Key Discussion Points

• Donald Trump and Roy Moore:

  • Farrow remarks on the frustration women feel seeing allegations against powerful men like Trump have little effect.

  "There is a feeling of being fed up, you know, to be a woman in America right now... is an extraordinarily frustrating experience seeing those allegations swirl around and have so little effect."
  — Ronan Farrow (11:50)

• The Weight of Official Statements:

  • Remnick and Schwartz note that even small increments—like Jeff Sessions’ tepid belief in accusers—are new in American politics.

  "It is a relief that we can... establish a fact and have the fact be seen as what a fact is—a neutral truth."
  — Alexandra Schwartz (12:56)

5. The Problem of Public Apologies (13:12–15:44)

Key Discussion Points

• Acknowledgment vs. Apology:

  • Schwartz says true progress begins with acknowledgment; however, Louis C.K., for instance, "acknowledged, but did not apologize" (13:51).

  • Farrow notes C.K.'s focus on asking for permission misses the point; "did he get that permission?" (14:13)

• Flawed Blanket Apologies:

  • Schwartz describes why collective/public apologies feel insufficient or insincere, lacking individual atonement.

  "That kind of blanket apology, whether it comes from a famous figure who has now been outed or whether it comes from a person writing on social media in response to the MeToo campaign... apology and redress doesn't really work that way."
  — Alexandra Schwartz (15:34)

6. On Punishment, Return, and Cultural Change (15:44–18:02)

Key Discussion Points

• Degrees of Misconduct:

  • Schwartz insists some form of rehabilitation and return may be possible for those with lesser offenses—cultural exile shouldn't be permanent for all.

  "We need to live in a society in which you are exiled for life. And that is that no matter what the level of your offense, there is a big range."
  — Alexandra Schwartz (16:24)

• Hope for the Future:

  • Schwartz yearns for a culture where women can “speak up and say it” and genuinely be heard and believed. (17:30)

7. The Broader Roots: bell hooks on Patriarchy and Masculinity (18:11–27:28)

Key Discussion Points

• Patriarchy as the Systemic Problem:

  • hooks criticizes media for focusing on individual pathology over systemic patriarchy.

  "We want to act like this is individual male psychopathology and not like this is normal."
  — bell hooks (20:22)

• How Boys Are Raised:

  • hooks discusses being socialized to equate masculinity with violence, and how women also uphold patriarchal norms.

  • Personal anecdote on her father:

    "He was all of these things that we associate with masculinity... and really had a lot of disdain for my brother because... he was a much softer, warmer human being."
    — bell hooks (21:23)

• Childhood Trauma and Abuse:

  • hooks suggests many abusive men may have been victims themselves, but society hesitates to confront the pervasiveness of abuse against boys (22:23).

• The Challenge of Change:

  • hooks argues real change comes from transforming family dynamics and emotional education, not just political edicts.

  "Parenting is political....this has to begin on the level of family."
  — bell hooks (25:02)

• Men’s Emotional Development:

  • hooks advocates for therapy and emotional intelligence training for men, linking emotional stuntedness to habitual violence.

  "These men that we're talking about are not men who feel."
  — bell hooks (26:22)

• On Bill Cosby and Louis C.K.:

  • Quick take: “Hated Cosby from jump. He was too good to be true.” (27:21)

8. Bonus Segment: Bruce Springsteen on Patriarchy and the Family (28:21–29:43)

Notable Moment

• Springsteen reads from Born to Run about his fraught relationship with his father, a symbol of "the old school" patriarch:

  "He loved me, but he couldn't stand me. He felt we competed for my mother's affections...Beyond his rage, he harbored a gentleness, a timidity, shyness and a dreamy insecurity. These are all the things that I wore on the outside. And reflections of these qualities in his boy repelled him..."
  — Bruce Springsteen (28:21)

  This reading serves as a personal parallel to hooks’ point about intergenerational masculinity and how softness in men is punished.

Selected Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. "If you come forward with this kind of an allegation, you are always a survivor with a capital S."
   — Ronan Farrow (04:09)
2. "The amazement and shock is the idea that men are thinking about this. This has not been something that men have had to think about as a group..."
   — Alexandra Schwartz (10:41)
3. "We want to act like this is individual male psychopathology and not like this is normal."
   — bell hooks (20:22)
4. "Parenting is political...this has to begin on the level of family."
   — bell hooks (25:02)
5. "He loved me, but he couldn't stand me... He was strong, physically formidable. Toward the end of his life, he fought back from death many times... These are all the things that I wore on the outside. And reflections of these qualities in his boy repelled him..."
   — Bruce Springsteen (28:21)

Conclusions & Tone

• Tone: Frank, thoughtful, sometimes raw; cycles between outrage, reflection, and cautious hope.
• Key Insights:
  • The Weinstein scandal is a catalyst, not a conclusion, in America’s overdue reckoning with harassment and patriarchy.
  • Fame helped the story break but also exposes how universal these issues are.
  • Systemic change requires reckoning not just with individual perpetrators, but with cultural norms, family dynamics, and what is expected of men and women.

This episode delivers a nuanced portrait of a historic cultural moment and provides a broad, systemic perspective on how change might come—not just in the workplace or through laws, but in how we raise and relate to each other.