A (2:59)

Yeah. So you think that's realistic, that if we can be successful on the Moon, Mars might be the next step there? What would you say is that timeline?

B (3:09)

Oh, I always joke if you're talking about space and you see a timeline, one of them is wrong. So, you know, I think, I think for a while there, a few years ago, we were kind of bypassing the Moon and really pushing towards Mars. And at one point there was a date of 2034. But I think the new approach is a much more sensible approach. Let's get to the Moon. And we're hoping we'll do that by land on the Moon for the first time, hopefully as early as 2028. Again, bear in mind what I said about dates. But if we can start to build the systems there that allow us to develop these new technologies, then we can seriously start thinking about that next. And the obvious next step I think is really is Mars. So a little bit further away, a little bit longer trip, a little bit harder to land on. But you know, it depends on the goals. Right? I mean, Elon Musk would like it to go very quickly with his plans for SpaceX. But I think we have to do it safely and securely. And so I wouldn't be surprised if we were pushing into the 2000-40s. And if it happens earlier, I'll be happy. But of course, the one thing to bear in mind is we already have a human built population on the planet Mars already with all of our rovers and the orbiting space spacecraft. So we're already there. But getting there with humans is a much bigger challenge.

A (4:25)

You know, when we go back to talking about the Moon specifically, some people may wonder why it's hard to get humans back to the Moon since we have done it before.

B (4:34)

It is a good question, but it really isn't about being first and it wasn't easy then. I mean, if you follow the, if you look at all of the detailed stories, even from Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin, they were a few seconds short of Having a major disaster. And it was just the fact that they were. Neil Armstro was a particularly good pilot that they were able to land safely. And of course, the risk posture was very different back then than it is now. The budgets were an awful lot higher as a fraction of gdp. But also what we're trying to do here is a little bit different. We're trying to take much, much bigger infrastructure. We're trying to go to a part of the moon that allows us to be there for longer terms, but also as a little bit more hazard terrain. And we want to stay there for longer. The Apollo astronauts went for a couple of days and came back. We would like to of humans there for initially at least the first mission. The test mission will be a few days. But as we go back, we want that to be closer to a month and perhaps even longer. And so those are quite different capabilities that you need to develop. And again, when humans are involved, you want as low a risk posture as you can.

A (5:42)

Yeah. I mean, even still, how risky or not is this Artemis 2 mission for the crew?

B (5:48)

I think there's some movies where they talk about sitting on a huge bomb anytime you launch anything into space. That's a lot of risk. And that's why they're very careful to be safe. If you don't get your trajectory right again, it's not just a matter of how you might drive your car. You point it in the direction you want to go and then drive that direction. What you have to do is work with the orbital mechanics of the fact that you're traveling around the Earth at 17 and a half thousand miles an hour. You have to hit the button just at the right time so that you get the path to the moon. And then you have to make sure that you use the moon, the gravity assist of the moon to come back to. You have to get all that right. Luckily, the smart people working on the orbital mechanics. But it's all risky, right? The launch is a risk. The translunar insertion trajectory is a risk. The return and re entry into the Earth, you have to hit that at the right angle and control that entry. So Artemis 2 will not have the risk of landing, but it will have those other risks that I mentioned. If those systems work as well as we expect them to. And this is what Artemis 1 helped us with. Then that next mission, of course, there's been a little bit of a change in the Artemis program. So the landing will be Artemis 4, not Artemis 3. But that Artemis IV landing will add another risk. The landing on the Moon and then of course, the subsequent return from the moon and docking and all those different things. Yeah, it's not something you take lightly or you do lightly.

A (7:14)

If Artemis 2 succeeds, Victor Glover and Christina Koch will become the first black astronaut and first female astronaut, respectively, to travel beyond low Earth orbit. How significant are milestones like that for NASA and the future of space exploration?

B (7:29)

I think it's fantastic. We need as much talent as we can get and that talent is everywhere. And so we need to actually pick the best of the best and put them forward. So I think both Victor and Christina are very smart people, very accomplished people have been there and done that. And I think that's the. They pick the best crew for the mission and it's great that they're showing young women and young people of color that there's not a barrier to being able to do this as they grow up. But I think in the end, it sort of doesn't matter the best people. And I think that's really important.

A (8:06)

Still ahead, the big shift in how NASA does business and how companies like SpaceX are helping drive down the cost of space travel. Plus whether space tourism could one day include trips to the moon. And why this all matters for life here on Earth. That and more coming up. But first, a quick break for our sponsors. If you're someone who doesn't want to constantly track the market or overthink every financial move, you're not alone. A lot of people are just looking for a simple, reliable way to grow their savings without turning it into a second job. That's exactly what gainbridge is designed for. Gainbridge is an online platform offering financial products with a guaranteed rate over a set term that you choose. That means you decide how long your money is invested and how much you want to put in. And from there, it grows at a fixed rate. There are no hidden fees or commissions, which makes it easier to understand exactly what you're getting. And the setup is straightforward. Open an account, fund it, and let it do its thing. They offer two main products. One for shorter term goals like saving for a major purchase or milestone, and another designed for longer term planning and retirement. If that kind of approach resonates with you, you can check it out@gainbridge.com. let your money work for you. The newsworthy is also brought to you by Birch Mattresses. Spring cleaning season is a great time to upgrade to a more natural sleep. With Birch's organic mattresses, we spend so much time in our beds. This really was an important part of getting a new mattress for me. Knowing that I'm sleeping on natural materials and avoiding harmful off gassing that can happen in the manufacturing process. And of course, comfort is also key. And my Birch Natural mattress really delivers there too. It's stylish, it's comfortable, and it's constructed with non toxic materials. There's really no better way to test a new Birch mattress than by sleeping on it in your own home. And that's why Birch offers a 120 night risk free trial to see how your body adjusts. And Birch mattresses are shipped directly from their facility to your door for free. The mattress comes rolled up in a box and is super easy to set up. I want all my listeners to enjoy a deep, restful night's sleep with a new mattress from birch. Go to birchliving.com newsworthy for 20% off sitewide. That's birchliving.com newsworthy and get 20% off sitewide birchliving.com newsworthy okay, now back to my conversation with David Alexander, professor of Astrophysics at Rice University and director of the Rice Space Institute. What role are private companies like SpaceX and Blue Origin playing in these missions to the moon? And what role have they had more broadly with things like reusable rockets?

B (10:40)

One of the most important changes in my mind in the last 10 or so years and how NASA has conducted their business is that they've changed the model from a pure contractor where you give them money, you buy the thing and you take it from them, you use it, and then you ask for another one. What they're doing now is that they're helping these companies by providing funds to develop a capability. So not just build something for me and I'll take it, but develop a capability subject to the requirements of safety and all those things. And then NASA then becomes a customer and they can buy seats for astronauts, they can buy docks for payloads. But it also allows the companies to sell open space. If NASA needs two seats and they have four, they can sell those two seats to private individuals or research organizations and universities and so on. So that's a really different model because what it does, it ends up being cheaper for the taxpayer. It ends up moving a little bit faster because companies tend to be able to process and do that innovation more in house and more quickly. And so what it does is it allows us to do more, more cheaply and faster. Obviously you mentioned the reusability. One of the big challenges is just the cost of getting into space, right? Because you have to fight not only the Earth's atmosphere, but Earth's gravity and the fact that you can make some of these systems reusable, you basically can bring the thing back, clean it up and send it away again. And so the cost is coming down per pound from tens of thousands of dollars now into maybe 1 to $3,000. And the hope is that that's going to go down even further. It allows organizations who can't come up with $100 million to launch something, but now you can put a payload on one of these systems for a lot cheaper. And so there's a whole change in the culture of how we do space now. And I think NASA has really embraced that.

A (12:32)

When we're thinking about space tourism, which we've seen a little bit already, do you expect people who just want to train some but not be full on astronauts to eventually go to the moon?

B (12:43)

When you use the word eventually, then I think the answer is yes. I think the intention is if we can create that infrastructure, a habitat and a reliable orbiter like the Gateway program and landing systems, then initially that will be the kind of government astronauts. Right? But also it would open up the opportunity for university scientists, researchers from companies and so on to go. And eventually when that becomes more routine, then there will be opportunity, I think, for private individuals to potentially participate. So again, I wouldn't put a timeline on it, but eventually I think it would happen.

A (13:23)

When people look back decades from now, how significant do you think Artemis 2 will turn out to be?

B (13:29)

I think it is very significant because it's a recommitment to the fact that we should be exploring space. Humanity as a space faring species. If you're under 25 years old, then there has been a person orbiting the earth above your head for every day of your life. Not the same person, but we've had a human in space supported by the technology that has been developed by space agencies around the world for that whole time. And the next step is to take those further. And I think the moon is the next first step.

A (14:04)

Do you have a final thought about why the average American, with so much going on here on Earth, why should they care about sending people to the moon?

B (14:11)

Obviously there's a lot happening on the planet. We're privileged in the sense that we are a society who can do these things. We can support the arts, we can support science and we can do these kind of things. I mean, jokingly, people think because of the Apollo program, we have Tang and we have Velcro and we have all those different things, right? We have microelectronics that led to cell phones. But the thing is that, for me, what the Apollo program did back in the 60s, it did those things. But what it also did was it generated a bunch of curious people who wanted to learn how to do those things. And it's no coincidence that when we think about trying to cure cancer or some other major problem on the planet, we call it a moonshot. And what it does is it says, if we can do that, we can do anything. And so the ability to push those boundaries, I think, really has an impact on that next generation of entrepreneurs, inventors, scholars, artists, and so on that then change life here, here on Earth for the better. And on top of that, if we can send four people to Mars sometime in the next 20 years and bring them back safely, all of those technologies that allow that to happen can benefit the 8.3 billion people on the planet, because technology is designed to support human life. And so when you bring that, when you need to do it because of the unique challenges of space, then those are the technologies that will change life here on Earth and ideally for the better. And you can even add the international cooperation when it comes to achieve these goals. It might make us a little bit friendlier here on planet Earth eventually.

A (15:53)

Thank you so much to our guest, David Alexander from Rice University. Of course, we'll keep you updated on the rest of the Artemis II mission underway now, as well as future missions to the Moon and beyond during our regular daily news roundups. We keep you updated and informed on a wide variety of stories every Monday through Friday in just 15 minutes a day. So we'll be back on Monday with the latest news. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.