The NewsWorthy

Special Edition: CDC Shake-Up – Trust, Vaccines & Future of Public Health
Host: Erica Mandy | Date: September 13, 2025
Guests: Dr. Celine Gounder and Dr. Caitlin Jettalina

Episode Overview

This special edition of The NewsWorthy dives deep into the current turmoil at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), changes in vaccine policy, and the broader crisis of public trust in America’s public health institutions. Host Erica Mandy interviews two prominent public health experts—Dr. Celine Gounder and Dr. Caitlin Jettalina—to explore why trust in science is at risk, how federal shake-ups impact families, and what changes may mean for the flu, RSV, and COVID seasons ahead.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. CDC Turmoil and Threats to Scientific Integrity

• Resignations and Firings at the CDC

  • Dr. Celine Gounder explains the context behind the ousting of the CDC director and senior officials resigning in protest.

    "What you're seeing are senior officials…resigning in protest after the CDC director had been fired. There were a couple things…but most importantly, her refusal to, quote, rubber stamp vaccine policy that Secretary Kennedy was dictating to her." (01:45)

  • Emphasizes the difference between “scientific process” and “lawyerly thinking,” noting that politicization undermines public trust in scientific recommendations.

    "Science is not the Bible. It is not a body of knowledge. It is a process for seeking out the truth." (01:53)

• Impact on Public Trust and Process

  • Dr. Gounder highlights that disruption of standard processes—even with popular outcomes—erodes trust.

    “It’s important… the process does need to be done in a way that has scientific integrity so that everyone will trust it.” (03:33)

2. Controversies and Changes in Vaccine Recommendations

• COVID Vaccine Recommendation Changes

  • The new FDA approval is limited to people 65+ or 6 months–64 years old with at least one risk factor—creating confusion and risk, especially for infants and people without primary care.

    “A lot of people don't know that they have underlying risk factors...and for infants...that period of six months to two years is a very high risk period...” (04:31)

  • The American Academy of Pediatrics now recommends vaccinating all infants aged 6 months to 2 years, diverging for the first time in 30 years from federal guidelines.

    “For the first time you’re seeing this divergence...when in the past, professional societies, the CDC, the FDA, very closely aligned on their recommendations.” (05:51)

• Pregnancy and Conflicting Recommendations

  • Confusion abounds as the FDA includes pregnancy as a risk factor, yet top officials and Secretary Kennedy claim otherwise.

    “That scientifically does not make sense to say that healthy pregnant women are low risk and do not need to be vaccinated.” (07:00)

  • Awaiting clarification from the CDC in the upcoming ACIP meeting (Sep 18–19).

    "We are still waiting for what the CDC will say…their next ACIP meeting is next week..." (07:47)

• Other Expected Vaccine Guideline Changes

  • Public discourse is reopening questions around measles, varicella (chickenpox), hepatitis B, and pertussis (whooping cough) vaccines.

    “I think some of the other ones that we’ll see reevaluated include measles…varicella…hepatitis B…pertussis vaccine.” (08:42)

• Risks of Decreasing Vaccination Rates

  • Drop in vaccination rates has already triggered ongoing measles outbreaks in under-vaccinated regions.

    “We have seen rates of vaccination drop…that outbreak is ongoing in the southwest…Measles is the most infectious virus known to man…” (11:05)

3. Public Health Funding and mRNA Technology

• Suspension of Infectious Disease mRNA Vaccine Research
  • Funding and contracts for next-generation pandemic preparedness tools, such as mRNA flu vaccines, are being canceled.

    "We saw a half a billion dollar contract with Moderna…to develop a bird flu mRNA vaccine…has been pulled." (12:39)

  • Meanwhile, mRNA platforms continue for cancer therapies.

    “It’s clear that’s not a genuine concern if it is, quote, unquote, okay to be doing mRNA vaccine research for other applications.” (13:56)

4. Broader Crisis of Trust and State Divergence

• 'Laboratories of Public Health'
  • Dr. Gounder foresees a patchwork of public health policies, with regional alliances (West Coast, Northeast) breaking from national trends.

    "We are going to see laboratories of public health, for better or for worse." (14:11)

Dr. Caitlin Jettalina: Systems-Level Health Failures and Public Response

(Joined at 17:31)

1. Attending 'Make America Healthy Again' (MAHA) Meetings

• Sees value in showing up where beliefs differ, to foster listening and adaptation.

  "If we are truly honest with ourselves…the health systems…are from the 20th century and they’re not keeping up…” (17:47)

• Stories of personal experience with health system failure fuel mistrust and backlash against public health and other institutions.

  “It’s very clear…the health system has failed them. And that has led to heartbreak, betrayal, it’s led to mistrust…” (18:52)

2. Federal Changes: Destruction vs. Reimagining

• Cautions against simple “destruction” of institutions without a forward-looking plan.

  “I think there’s a difference…between complete destruction and reimagination with a vision…All I’m really seeing is complete destruction…” (19:45)

• On removing school vaccine mandates, as in Florida:

  “I think it’s dangerous that we know the evidence that…school immunization requirements help decrease disease, it helps keep kids in schools.” (20:36)

  • Notes strong continued public (parental) support for these measures.

3. CDC Leadership Purge and National Health Security

• Criticizes the removal of long-serving, respected leaders from the CDC and its advisory panels.

  “These weren’t just bureaucratic decisions…When leaders like this are pushed out…a weaker CDC means, quite frankly, more vulnerable communities.” (21:38)

• Warns that CDC program cuts will increase disease and preventable death.

  “CDC’s footprint is very large in very invisible ways…when we remove that invisible shield, disease is going to increase and more preventable injury and death will increase as well.” (23:10)

4. Vision for the Future

• Calls for radical, principle-driven transformation: integration of care, responsive systems, accountability, and protection of public programs like Medicaid.

  “Empowering people…with the tools they need to stay healthy…means strengthening systems…means integrating services for accessibility…means being responsive…” (23:13)

• Notes tension within MAHA groups about alignment with broader MAGA politics, especially as some policies cut research funding.

  "I do start seeing these fractures between MAHA and MAGA and it'll be very interesting to see how that plays out…" (24:48)

2025 ‘Sick Season’ Outlook

• COVID summer wave underway (expect a winter wave), RSV to uptick late September, flu coming soon after.

  "RSV should start upticking here soon...and then flu thereafter, and then we expect another COVID wave in winter." (25:43)

• Vaccines for all three (COVID, flu, RSV); business as usual for flu/RSV, confusion for COVID due to changing guidelines and insurance uncertainties.

  “Flu and RSV are business as usual...COVID-19 vaccines is a bit of a mess right now...” (25:43)

• Special attention to RSV: pregnant women can be vaccinated to protect infants; infants under 8 months can receive a monoclonal antibody.

  “If the mom doesn't get the vaccine during pregnancy, infants can get something called a monoclonal antibody…all infants under 8 months old can get it and should. It works incredibly well...” (26:53)

Notable Quotes and Timestamps

• "Science is not the Bible. It is not a body of knowledge. It is a process for seeking out the truth."

  • Dr. Celine Gounder (01:53)

• “Whether you're talking about vaccines or estrogen for women or whatever it is, the process does need to be done in a way that has scientific integrity so that everyone will trust it.”

  • Dr. Celine Gounder (03:33)

• “I think we are seeing a crisis of trust in public health, whether that's vaccines or public health agencies, institutions more broadly.”

  • Dr. Celine Gounder (14:11)

• "We can either double down on what we know...or we can listen and we can learn and we can evolve. And I think both instincts are necessary. But for me at least, I'm far more interested in the latter."

  • Dr. Caitlin Jettalina (17:47)

• "If this course is not corrected quickly, our nation's health security is at risk."

  • Dr. Caitlin Jettalina (22:31)

Conclusion

This episode features a thoughtful, data-driven discussion about recent shake-ups at the CDC, the ramifications for vaccine recommendations, and the crisis of trust in public health institutions. Both experts—while emphasizing the need for reform—warn that dismantling systems without clear vision or replacement endangers public health. They stress the importance of scientific process and integrity, robust institutional leadership, and preparing for emerging infectious disease threats.

For families navigating this fall's “sixth season,” keep up with vaccinations for flu and RSV as usual, but monitor updates regarding COVID-19 recommendations and access.

Further Reading:

• Your Local Epidemiologist—Dr. Caitlin Jettalina
• KFF Health News—Dr. Celine Gounder

For more in-depth stories and daily news episodes, visit thenewsworthy.com.