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[00:00]
A
There is a yearning to be the dad that you want your kids to remember.
[00:08]
B
Today is Saturday, June 20, and tomorrow is Father's Day. So we're talking about fatherhood and how much it's changed in a lot of families. More and more dads today are trying to do things a bit differently and be more involved in the day to day work of raising kids. Of course, that can also come with some new pressures and a lot of dads are still figuring out what that actually looks like and how to navigate it. Today I'm joined by Kevin McGuire, the dad in chief, as he calls it, at the New Fatherhood. He has a book and popular newsletter by the same name and his writing has been featured in gq, Bloomberg and more. He also works as an executive coach for leaders at Fortune 500 companies like Amazon, Netflix and YouTube, helping them navigate the intersection of career and family. In this episode we talk about how dads roles are shifting, the support more fathers need but don't always get what paternal postpartum depression is about and more this Father's Day, it turns out even the smallest moments can matter more than we realize. Welcome to the Newsworthy special edition Saturday when we sit down with a different expert or celebrity every Saturday to talk about something in the news. Don't forget to tune in every Monday through Friday for our regular episodes where we provide all the day's news in less than 15 minutes. I'm Erica Mandy. It's now time for today's special edition Saturday. Kevin McGuire, thanks so much for joining us here on the Newsworthy.
[01:28]
A
Thanks for having me.
[01:30]
B
So first, what do you think has changed most about fatherhood in the last generation? Just big picture.
[01:35]
A
Oh, I mean it used to be just so simple. It used to be set in stone. A dad's job was three things. They had to protect, provide and preside. So protecting was really kind of like based on the historical fact that men are generally larger and stronger than the women in their lives. And it was necessary to in those times to be able to kind of keep your family safe and protect them from the saber toothed tigers that might have been trying to get into the cave at night. And as time went on from other tribes that were battling. So we needed to protect, we needed to provide. You know, historically this wasn't exclusive that men were the hunter gatherers in society. There has been research recently that showed that women went out and hunted as well. But primarily the man's job was to provide. And that carried straight through until men were the primary breadwinners. Men went away to work while women stayed at home and raised the children. And the third was preside. We all know kind of that very standard thing of like, wait till your dad gets home and the father is the disciplinarian and the person in charge. And then a real shift happened. Over the past generation or two, we've been dealing with changes in what it means to be a man. This idea of modern masculinity, this idea of fatherhood is a moment where we won't just pass on everything that was passed on to us by the dads who came before us. But there's really a reckoning of, like, how do we do the work to make sure that our children grow up without having to do this work themselves?
[03:08]
B
And there still seems to be a tension in society about that shift. Some people are fully embracing it and other people do want to keep traditional gender roles. What's your take on why that's happening and the impact on doubt when we have kind of different roles happening in different families?
[03:27]
A
It tends to, Erica, as so many things do in both the US and the UK at the moment, fall along party lines. Things have changed over the last generation. A third of marriages in the us, men and women now earn the same, and in a sixth of marriages, women earn more than the men. But what this opens up is it opens up an opportunity for richer, deeper relationships between fathers and their children. When we can turn up and when we can be there for our children in ways that our fathers were never able to be there for us, the entire dynamic changes. It's intergenerational change.
[04:07]
B
You call it the new fatherhood. So what does that really mean to you? And what are many dads trying to do differently now?
[04:14]
A
I mean, I think we all know what new fatherhood looks like when we see it. You know, my eldest now is 12, and when I first started going out, pushing her down the street in a stroller or wearing her in a baby grow, I would get these looks from like, oh, like, oh, daddy daycare, is it? Or, oh, you letting mom have a break. Is this what it is? And I think we are progressing past this, but it is a very, very long road. We say when a child is born that it takes a village to raise them. And historically, that village has existed. You know, a woman would give birth and the entire community would come around her to surround her with love and support and whatever she needed. Nowadays, so many of us are raising families away from our own parents, away from the places we grew up. And those communities of care still exist. They take the forms of baby groups and coffee mornings and all of these things that allow women to connect with each other during this very tough time. Those spaces don't really exist for dads, or if they do, they're few and far between. I think any dad who has taken a more active role in the raising of their children than their dad did before him will have experienced this strange dynamic of walking into a baby massage class or a nursery rhyme time and being the only man in the room. And it can become very alienating in so much that it isn't that these spaces intentionally exclude mental, but we need to create spaces that intentionally include them. There's an organization in the UK and they've been doing this thing recently called Pints and Ponytails.
[05:56]
B
We did a story about this, actually, and it's fantastic.
[05:59]
A
And it's a group of guys who get together and they have a few drinks and they learn how to braid their daughter's hair. Now, this is the kind of thing that would never have existed 30 years ago, but more and more men, there is a yearning to be the dad that you want your kids to remember, to kind of, like push back against the narratives that we inherited and do something different so that, like, things will be better for the next generation who come after us.
[06:30]
B
And I think you've called some of the support that dads need a dadvisory board. Can you tell me about that?
[06:36]
A
Yeah. I mean, I've spent 25 years in corporate life. I was at Google for close to a decade. I've been working at ad agencies. I've seen how much men prioritize their career. And really, I strongly believe, Erica, that we need to put as much effort into our roles as dads as we put into any other roles in our career. In writing the book, a big thing that I've tried to do is helping dads understand all the aspects of their life, all the levers that they can pull to be a better dad, to show up better for themselves, for their partners, for their kids. If you're creating a startup, one of the first things you get told to do is to build a board. You get told to bring on and engage with experienced, passionate people who can help you. And the idea of a dadvisory board is go out and find the five dads you admire with so much in life. We are the result of the people we surround ourselves with. And if you surround yourself with dads who are complaining and just say, oh, it's like, it's so hard and I can't really do these things at work anymore, and I don't have any more spare time anymore. And all these things that I call in the book scarcity. Fatherhood. Thinking about fatherhood as something that takes lots away from you in life, that takes away your money, takes away your time, takes away your career opportunities. But the idea of abundant fatherhood, like, if you can surround yourself with dads that see fatherhood as a route to joy, fulfillment, excitement, and abundance, that is the way to live. And finding those dads and building a group around you that you can turn to.
[08:19]
B
Do you feel like there's a difference between kind of venting and being able to say what's on your mind versus kind of complaining and viewing parenthood as a problem?
[08:30]
A
Yeah, I don't think venting and complaining are bad things. Erica. To be able to come together with people who are going through what you've been through and saying this is hard is incredibly important. I think so much of it is about the mindset that we take. It's normalized across men to really look for success and ambition. And what that can mean is so often we look at fatherhood as a. As a side quest, as a distraction. And I've been writing this newsletter for five years now. The reason I started this is because I felt like there was nothing out there that spoke to dads with feelings. You're allowed to be ambitious about work, but this kind of key moment that I had was I moved to the bay area in 2016. I was with Google at the time. I got transferred over there, and it thought, oh, this is it. And I remember my daughter was about 3 years old at the time, and it was 7pm one night, and I was sitting on my computer, and she was trying to get my attention. She's like, I want to play. I want to play. I said, I can't. I'm busy. I'm so busy. And I remember thinking, hang on a second. Right now, she thinks I am the best, and I can really get my head down and spend another 10 years in this job and maybe get promoted once or twice. And I would turn around and close my laptop, and she'd be 13 or 14, and she would say, where have you been? And for me, it was just this moment where I went, okay, you know what? Let's pull this ripcord. Let's do something different, and let's really switch our life up so that we won't regret not having this time together.
[10:13]
B
And how does that feel? Talking about when your daughter was three and that decision you made now that she's what, 12?
[10:20]
A
Yeah. And we're on the other side of it now. And now she's, you know, she's going into that phase of her life where she doesn't need us so much anymore. And it's, it's exciting for her. It's slightly heartbreaking for us, but it's this natural evolution. Something I talk about in the book is having these mantras. And one thing that I always go back to is this philosopher, William B. Irvin. He talks about something called the last time meditation. It's this idea that one time you will lift your child up and it will be the last time. And you'll never know when it is, but it will be it. Like with my daughter, I wrote about the fact that I didn't like combing her hair and drying it after a bath. It was so long. And I would sit and I'd be combing it and she'd be getting annoyed and I'd be getting annoyed. And I would often catch myself and say, you know what? This might be the last time. There will come a time very soon that she won't need me to do this anymore and I will actually miss this. And between writing that in the book and the book being published, she comes out of the bath, she takes a hairdryer, she dries her hair herself, and sometimes I walk past the room and I really do miss it. So much of what we can do are these tiny little mindset shifts that help us so much in the moment because it can be so intense, especially with young children. It can be so intense just to get through the day and just the tiny things that we can arm ourselves with to find that slither of space between stimulus and response, between something our child does and the action that we take because of it. Anything like that can help so much.
[11:59]
B
Still ahead, we talk about the mental load, paternal postpartum depression, advice for couples, and plans for Father's Day. That and more coming up. But first, a break for our sponsors. If you think about your dad or a father figure in your life, what is one happy memory or lesson or story that comes to mind? I have a lot, but I also know there's so much more that I never thought to ask my parents growing up that I could learn from or just better understand. And that's where Storyworth comes in. And side note, this makes a great last minute Father's Day gift. Since there's no shipping needed at this point, you can immediately send your dad the first part of this experience. And from there, each week Storyworth sends your dad a question about his life. He can then respond however he wants, writing back over email or web voice recording or new this year, a guided phone call so there's no tech hassle. And finally, after a year, they compile everything into a beautiful hardcover book for you. I'm already in the process of doing this with my mom and I'm so excited to see the final product in a year's time. So it's one of those gifts that keeps on giving. This year, give Dad a gift that captures who he really is before the stories get harder to remember. Father's day is Sunday, June 21st. Order right now and save up to $20@StoryWorth.com Newsworthy Save up to $20 at StoryWorth.com Newsworthy that's StoryWorth.com Newsworry the Newsworthy is also brought to you by Green Chef. I'm guessing at least part of why you listen to this podcast is because you get a lot of information quickly. The truth is we're busy these days and so we need to be efficient in all areas of our lives, including the kitchen. And Green Chef makes it faster and easier to eat healthy home cooked meals by delivering pre portioned ingredients and easy to follow recipes for meals that can be ready in minutes. I've made meals like chicken with garlic rice, Apricot pan sauce and roasted almonds as well as Maple butternut squash risotto with kale and toasted pecans and my family and I have loved it all. I actually feel proud of what I make with the help of Green Chef. And with Green Chef you can pick what matters to you, from Mediterranean or high protein to their new longevity line built around brain and gut, health and more. My family eats better and with less stress when we use Green chef. Head to greenchef.com 50newsworthy and use the code 50newsworthy to get 50% off your first month, then 20% off for two months. That's code 50newsworthy@greenchef.com 50newsworthy okay, now back to my conversation with Kevin McGuire. I do want to ask you because even as so many dads, you know, want to be more emotionally present and more involved overall than previous generations, at least some research has shown that moms still are bearing more of it. Why do you think that's still the case and what's your take on that?
[14:48]
A
I think it's true. There's been a lot written about the mental load and all this kind of work that the women carry in the house and we are making Headway in the right direction. There was a recent study that said just looking at chores, for example, and I know chores isn't the only thing here. One study found that if the current rate of kind of normalization continues since the pandemic, men and women will be doing an equal amount of work in the house by 2032. I think there is still way more work to be done in, like, men stepping up and understanding more of what needs to be done. Marshall Rosenberg, who wrote the book Nonviolent Communication, talks a lot about the articulation of needs. I think the disconnect that happens is not just on the day to day of what needs to be done, but on the articulation of the needs. I think a lot of couples can get caught into this trap where one person thinks the other person should be doing this, but doesn't actually talk about doing it and vice versa. So it's like, that can be a slippery slope that people get into as well.
[15:51]
B
And I know you've written openly about the paternal postpartum depression that you went through after your son was born. What do you think most people don't realize about that and what helped you get through it?
[16:01]
A
What I found, actually, Erika, in kind of going out and talking about this book is what most people don't know about this is that it actually exists.
[16:08]
B
Right.
[16:09]
A
It has been quite an eye opener for me. A lot of people who feel that it's like, well, hold on, why are guys talking about this? Why? Like, how can a guy talk about paternal postnatal depression when he didn't even have a baby? I don't think people understand that, like, as men are taking more active roles in the household and more active roles in raising children, that this is an issue that they're going through as well. Postpartum depression in all its states are caused by a number of factors. Some of them are hormonal, of course, and women go through huge hormonal shifts. But men also go through huge hormonal shifts after the birth of a child. Like, testosterone drops by up to 25%. It's a thing that actually keeps men around. And the big thing is that if a woman deals with postpartum depression, there is a 50% chance that her husband will go through it as well. You know, in most European countries, women are routinely getting screened for postpartum depression as part of the kind of process after birth. Men are not being asked anything. The dads will kind of be given a slap on the back and said, good luck, go ahead, get on with It. So I think on one side, the systems around us, they need to do a better job at looking out for guys, and guys need to do a much better job of taking responsibility and looking out for each other. Because the thing that I found both times after my wife gave birth is the women in her life came around her. And it's not something that I experienced with my male friends. And I know from speaking to all the other dads over the kind of five years of writing the newsletter and researching this book, it's not something that happens to us. So we need to do a better job as men of sending that text, of picking up that phone, of saying, hey, yeah, I know you had a. I know you had a baby a few weeks ago. Is everything okay? Because if it's not okay, that's okay. And I'm here to talk to you if you want to.
[18:03]
B
And so what did help you get through it?
[18:05]
A
What helped me one was opening up. Like, I opened up to my wife, and I told her, like, I think this is what's happening. I lent on a lot of the research, Erica, of postnatal depression, postpartum depression in women, which was, go find a medical professional and work with them. Talk to friends and family about what you're going through. Eat better, exercise regularly, get out, like, wear the baby on the streets, spend time intentionally with them. And it was a. It was a relief just to know that the feelings that I felt towards my son or the lack of feelings that I felt towards him were not my fault, that I shouldn't be ashamed of being angry or kind of like feeling a sense of grief for a life that we had lost. And this was my second child, so I knew that something wasn't right. My therapist at the time, I said, I don't love my son, and I feel like I won't love him, and I feel like a terrible dad. She said, you will love him eventually, and it will be all the more powerful because you know what you had to go through to get here.
[19:10]
B
And I like how you talked about opening up to your wife. How do you think couples can best think about parenthood and partnership in this new fatherhood generation?
[19:20]
A
One piece of advice that I was given that has been, like, so useful to me in every aspect of parenting was both sit on one side of the table and put the problem on the other side. Whatever it is that you're facing, face it together and put that problem on the other side. I remember on my. On my wedding night, there was an old couple that came up to Us, just as we were about to get into the car and head home. And they walked up and hand in hand, and the husband said to me, he said, listen, you will have good times and you will have bad times, but whatever happens, remember, you're on the same side.
[20:02]
B
I love that. For Father's Day, we celebrate dads in a lot of different ways. But what do you think many dads need more of this Father's Day? And what's your ideal Father's Day look like?
[20:13]
A
I think what more dads need is each other. Like, genuinely, truly, we don't prioritize the connections and community that we have. We need to do a much better job of showing up for the other dads in our lives, just getting together, whether it's having a beer, going to the park. Something I've done. Erica, as part of the newsletter is is we've started these things called Dada Days, and there are 25 cities across the world where dads just meet up regularly. The idea of Dada Days is like, take the kids away, let your wife stay at home and do whatever she wants to do for the day and come to a park and hang out with some other dads or kind of like we'll go down and we'll go to some kind of kid activity that's going on. What I found is so often it's easier for us to open up with a stranger than it is with a friend. So I think definitely dads showing up for each other is something that I think people need more of and that we also need to do a better job of doing ourselves. The perfect Father's Day for me is maybe I'll get up in the morning, I will play some video games with the kids, we'll go out to a park, we might watch a movie of some kind and generally just have a nice chill day together. We're currently working our way through all the Marvel movies. So, you know, maybe we'll. I think, I think there's a Spider man movie next on the list, so maybe we'll, maybe we'll get through that and probably a World cup game, too.
[21:42]
B
Thank you so much to our guest, Kevin McGuire. Go learn more about his book, his substack newsletter and more@newfatherhood.com we'll also link to it in today's episode notes on our website thenewsworthy.com thank you so much for listening. Join us again during the week for all the days News in just 15 minutes. Every Monday through Friday, we help you stay informed even when you're busy, so we'll be back on Monday with the latest news. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend and happy Father's Day.

Summary6 min read

The NewsWorthy – Special Edition: How Fatherhood Is Changing

Host: Erica Mandy
Guest: Kevin McGuire, author of The New Fatherhood, executive coach
Date: June 20, 2026

Episode Overview

In this Father’s Day special, Erica Mandy sits down with Kevin McGuire—executive coach, writer, and creator of the New Fatherhood newsletter—to discuss how modern fatherhood is evolving. The conversation explores shifting expectations, emotional labor, the importance of male friendship and support networks, paternal postpartum depression, and small yet meaningful moments that define parenting today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Shift in Fatherhood Roles

Traditional Roles:
- Historically, fathers were expected to "protect, provide, and preside."
- "Protecting was really kind of like based on the historical fact that men are generally larger and stronger…to keep your family safe and protect them from the saber toothed tigers that might have been trying to get into the cave at night. And as time went on from other tribes that were battling." (Kevin, 01:35)
Modern Fatherhood:
- Contemporary dads are questioning and rejecting old stereotypes.
- There’s an increased desire to be more present and emotionally engaged with kids.
- Changes in earning patterns: “A third of marriages in the U.S., men and women now earn the same, and in a sixth of marriages, women earn more than the men.” (Kevin, 03:27)

Societal Tensions and Progress

The transition to more egalitarian roles often falls along political lines.
Some families embrace new dynamics; others hold to traditional roles.
Modern fathers are seeking "intergenerational change," wanting their children to inherit less baggage around masculinity and parenthood.

The “New Fatherhood” Defined

Increased Presence:
- “More and more men, there is a yearning to be the dad that you want your kids to remember, to push back against the narratives that we inherited and do something different.” (Kevin, 05:59)
- Early involvement (like attending baby groups) often means being the only dad, which can be alienating due to a lack of tailored support spaces.

Notable Moment:

Pints and Ponytails in the UK: Dads gather to learn how to braid their daughters’ hair, a symbol of shifting engagement.

Building Support: The “Dadvisory Board”

Concept:
- Dads are encouraged to build a close circle of supportive peers, akin to a business advisory board. (06:36)
- “If you surround yourself with dads who are complaining…that I call in the book scarcity fatherhood. But the idea of abundant fatherhood…that is the way to live.” (Kevin, 07:23)
Scarcity vs. Abundance Mindset:
- Scarcity: Seeing parenthood as limiting.
- Abundance: Viewing fatherhood as fulfilling.

Quote:

“We are the result of the people we surround ourselves with.” (Kevin, 07:00)

Balancing Work and Parenting

Dads often treat involved parenting as a “side quest.”
Powerful reflection:
- “Right now, she thinks I am the best, and I can really get my head down and spend another 10 years in this job…and she would say, where have you been?” (Kevin, 09:06)
- Realizing the importance of seizing moments before they pass.

Memorable Mantra:

Last Time Meditation: “It’s this idea that one time you will lift your child up and it will be the last time. And you’ll never know when it is, but it will be it.” (Kevin, 10:19)

The (Unfinished) Household Revolution

Mental Load:
- Chores and emotional labor still disproportionately fall to women despite progress.
- “If the current rate of kind of normalization continues since the pandemic, men and women will be doing an equal amount of work in the house by 2032.” (Kevin, 14:47)
Communication is Crucial:
- Citing Marshall Rosenberg, Kevin notes lack of explicit conversation about needs fuels imbalance. (15:15)

Paternal Postpartum Depression

Awareness:
- “What most people don’t know about this is that it actually exists.” (Kevin, 16:00)
- Men experience hormonal changes after childbirth (testosterone drops up to 25%), and those whose partners suffer postpartum depression are at higher risk themselves.
Support Gap:
- Systems routinely support moms, but dads rarely get checked in on.
- Peer support among male friends is lacking: “We need to do a better job as men of sending that text…because if it’s not okay, that’s okay.” (Kevin, 17:36)
How to Cope:
- Open up to loved ones, seek professional help, and stay active and connected.
- “It was a relief just to know that the feelings that I felt towards my son…were not my fault, that I shouldn’t be ashamed.” (Kevin, 18:29)
- Encouragement from a therapist: “You will love him eventually, and it will be all the more powerful because you know what you had to go through to get here.” (Kevin, 18:58)

Advice for Couples

“Both sit on one side of the table and put the problem on the other side…whatever happens, remember, you’re on the same side.” (Kevin, 19:20)

Father’s Day Reflections

What Dads Need:
- More connection with other dads, greater community-building.
- “What more dads need is each other…just getting together, whether it’s having a beer, going to the park.” (Kevin, 20:13)
Dada Days:
- Organized meetups for dads and kids across 25 cities; a chance for dads to bond and support each other. (20:29)

Ideal Father’s Day:

“Maybe I’ll get up in the morning, play some video games with the kids, we’ll go out to a park, we might watch a movie and generally just have a nice chill day together…we’re currently working our way through all the Marvel movies.” (Kevin, 21:16)

Notable Quotes

| Quote | Speaker | Timestamp | |-------|---------|-----------| | “There is a yearning to be the dad that you want your kids to remember.” | Kevin McGuire | 00:00 | | “We needed to protect, we needed to provide…that carried straight through until men were the primary breadwinners.” | Kevin McGuire | 01:45 | | “It opens up an opportunity for richer, deeper relationships between fathers and their children.” | Kevin McGuire | 03:37 | | “If you surround yourself with dads who are complaining…that I call in the book scarcity fatherhood.” | Kevin McGuire | 07:11 | | “Right now, she thinks I am the best…and she would say, where have you been?” | Kevin McGuire | 09:06 | | “One time you will lift your child up and it will be the last time. And you’ll never know when it is, but it will be it.” | Kevin McGuire | 10:19 | | “What most people don’t know about this is that [paternal postpartum depression] actually exists." | Kevin McGuire | 16:00 | | “Whatever happens, remember, you’re on the same side.” | Kevin McGuire | 19:43 | | “What more dads need is each other.” | Kevin McGuire | 20:13 | | “The perfect Father’s Day for me is…just have a nice chill day together.” | Kevin McGuire | 21:21 |

Important Timestamps

01:35 – Major changes in the role of dads across generations
03:27 – Impact of shifting gender and economic roles
05:59 – The emergence of new fatherhood communities
06:36 – Creating your own “dadvisory board”
09:06 – Personal reckoning with work/life balance
10:19 – The philosophy of the “last time”
14:47 – Progress and remaining challenges in sharing the mental load
16:00 – Paternal postpartum depression explained
18:04 – Coping strategies and opening up
19:20 – Advice for partnership and teamwork
20:13 – The need for dad-to-dad community and “Dada Days”
21:16 – Favorite Father’s Day activities

Tone & Final Thoughts

Throughout the episode, Kevin and Erica’s tone is warm, reflective, and encouraging, highlighting both the heartfelt and sometimes difficult realities of today’s fatherhood journey. Their discussion underscores that fatherhood continues to evolve—and that small shifts in mindset, proactive support, and cherished everyday moments can transform the experience for dads, their partners, and their children.

For more on Kevin McGuire’s work: newfatherhood.com

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Transcript30 lines

[00:00]
A
There is a yearning to be the dad that you want your kids to remember.
[00:08]
B
Today is Saturday, June 20, and tomorrow is Father's Day. So we're talking about fatherhood and how much it's changed in a lot of families. More and more dads today are trying to do things a bit differently and be more involved in the day to day work of raising kids. Of course, that can also come with some new pressures and a lot of dads are still figuring out what that actually looks like and how to navigate it. Today I'm joined by Kevin McGuire, the dad in chief, as he calls it, at the New Fatherhood. He has a book and popular newsletter by the same name and his writing has been featured in gq, Bloomberg and more. He also works as an executive coach for leaders at Fortune 500 companies like Amazon, Netflix and YouTube, helping them navigate the intersection of career and family. In this episode we talk about how dads roles are shifting, the support more fathers need but don't always get what paternal postpartum depression is about and more this Father's Day, it turns out even the smallest moments can matter more than we realize. Welcome to the Newsworthy special edition Saturday when we sit down with a different expert or celebrity every Saturday to talk about something in the news. Don't forget to tune in every Monday through Friday for our regular episodes where we provide all the day's news in less than 15 minutes. I'm Erica Mandy. It's now time for today's special edition Saturday. Kevin McGuire, thanks so much for joining us here on the Newsworthy.
[01:28]
A
Thanks for having me.
[01:30]
B
So first, what do you think has changed most about fatherhood in the last generation? Just big picture.
[01:35]
A
Oh, I mean it used to be just so simple. It used to be set in stone. A dad's job was three things. They had to protect, provide and preside. So protecting was really kind of like based on the historical fact that men are generally larger and stronger than the women in their lives. And it was necessary to in those times to be able to kind of keep your family safe and protect them from the saber toothed tigers that might have been trying to get into the cave at night. And as time went on from other tribes that were battling. So we needed to protect, we needed to provide. You know, historically this wasn't exclusive that men were the hunter gatherers in society. There has been research recently that showed that women went out and hunted as well. But primarily the man's job was to provide. And that carried straight through until men were the primary breadwinners. Men went away to work while women stayed at home and raised the children. And the third was preside. We all know kind of that very standard thing of like, wait till your dad gets home and the father is the disciplinarian and the person in charge. And then a real shift happened. Over the past generation or two, we've been dealing with changes in what it means to be a man. This idea of modern masculinity, this idea of fatherhood is a moment where we won't just pass on everything that was passed on to us by the dads who came before us. But there's really a reckoning of, like, how do we do the work to make sure that our children grow up without having to do this work themselves?
[03:08]
B
And there still seems to be a tension in society about that shift. Some people are fully embracing it and other people do want to keep traditional gender roles. What's your take on why that's happening and the impact on doubt when we have kind of different roles happening in different families?
[03:27]
A
It tends to, Erica, as so many things do in both the US and the UK at the moment, fall along party lines. Things have changed over the last generation. A third of marriages in the us, men and women now earn the same, and in a sixth of marriages, women earn more than the men. But what this opens up is it opens up an opportunity for richer, deeper relationships between fathers and their children. When we can turn up and when we can be there for our children in ways that our fathers were never able to be there for us, the entire dynamic changes. It's intergenerational change.
[04:07]
B
You call it the new fatherhood. So what does that really mean to you? And what are many dads trying to do differently now?
[04:14]
A
I mean, I think we all know what new fatherhood looks like when we see it. You know, my eldest now is 12, and when I first started going out, pushing her down the street in a stroller or wearing her in a baby grow, I would get these looks from like, oh, like, oh, daddy daycare, is it? Or, oh, you letting mom have a break. Is this what it is? And I think we are progressing past this, but it is a very, very long road. We say when a child is born that it takes a village to raise them. And historically, that village has existed. You know, a woman would give birth and the entire community would come around her to surround her with love and support and whatever she needed. Nowadays, so many of us are raising families away from our own parents, away from the places we grew up. And those communities of care still exist. They take the forms of baby groups and coffee mornings and all of these things that allow women to connect with each other during this very tough time. Those spaces don't really exist for dads, or if they do, they're few and far between. I think any dad who has taken a more active role in the raising of their children than their dad did before him will have experienced this strange dynamic of walking into a baby massage class or a nursery rhyme time and being the only man in the room. And it can become very alienating in so much that it isn't that these spaces intentionally exclude mental, but we need to create spaces that intentionally include them. There's an organization in the UK and they've been doing this thing recently called Pints and Ponytails.
[05:56]
B
We did a story about this, actually, and it's fantastic.
[05:59]
A
And it's a group of guys who get together and they have a few drinks and they learn how to braid their daughter's hair. Now, this is the kind of thing that would never have existed 30 years ago, but more and more men, there is a yearning to be the dad that you want your kids to remember, to kind of, like push back against the narratives that we inherited and do something different so that, like, things will be better for the next generation who come after us.
[06:30]
B
And I think you've called some of the support that dads need a dadvisory board. Can you tell me about that?
[06:36]
A
Yeah. I mean, I've spent 25 years in corporate life. I was at Google for close to a decade. I've been working at ad agencies. I've seen how much men prioritize their career. And really, I strongly believe, Erica, that we need to put as much effort into our roles as dads as we put into any other roles in our career. In writing the book, a big thing that I've tried to do is helping dads understand all the aspects of their life, all the levers that they can pull to be a better dad, to show up better for themselves, for their partners, for their kids. If you're creating a startup, one of the first things you get told to do is to build a board. You get told to bring on and engage with experienced, passionate people who can help you. And the idea of a dadvisory board is go out and find the five dads you admire with so much in life. We are the result of the people we surround ourselves with. And if you surround yourself with dads who are complaining and just say, oh, it's like, it's so hard and I can't really do these things at work anymore, and I don't have any more spare time anymore. And all these things that I call in the book scarcity. Fatherhood. Thinking about fatherhood as something that takes lots away from you in life, that takes away your money, takes away your time, takes away your career opportunities. But the idea of abundant fatherhood, like, if you can surround yourself with dads that see fatherhood as a route to joy, fulfillment, excitement, and abundance, that is the way to live. And finding those dads and building a group around you that you can turn to.
[08:19]
B
Do you feel like there's a difference between kind of venting and being able to say what's on your mind versus kind of complaining and viewing parenthood as a problem?
[08:30]
A
Yeah, I don't think venting and complaining are bad things. Erica. To be able to come together with people who are going through what you've been through and saying this is hard is incredibly important. I think so much of it is about the mindset that we take. It's normalized across men to really look for success and ambition. And what that can mean is so often we look at fatherhood as a. As a side quest, as a distraction. And I've been writing this newsletter for five years now. The reason I started this is because I felt like there was nothing out there that spoke to dads with feelings. You're allowed to be ambitious about work, but this kind of key moment that I had was I moved to the bay area in 2016. I was with Google at the time. I got transferred over there, and it thought, oh, this is it. And I remember my daughter was about 3 years old at the time, and it was 7pm one night, and I was sitting on my computer, and she was trying to get my attention. She's like, I want to play. I want to play. I said, I can't. I'm busy. I'm so busy. And I remember thinking, hang on a second. Right now, she thinks I am the best, and I can really get my head down and spend another 10 years in this job and maybe get promoted once or twice. And I would turn around and close my laptop, and she'd be 13 or 14, and she would say, where have you been? And for me, it was just this moment where I went, okay, you know what? Let's pull this ripcord. Let's do something different, and let's really switch our life up so that we won't regret not having this time together.
[10:13]
B
And how does that feel? Talking about when your daughter was three and that decision you made now that she's what, 12?
[10:20]
A
Yeah. And we're on the other side of it now. And now she's, you know, she's going into that phase of her life where she doesn't need us so much anymore. And it's, it's exciting for her. It's slightly heartbreaking for us, but it's this natural evolution. Something I talk about in the book is having these mantras. And one thing that I always go back to is this philosopher, William B. Irvin. He talks about something called the last time meditation. It's this idea that one time you will lift your child up and it will be the last time. And you'll never know when it is, but it will be it. Like with my daughter, I wrote about the fact that I didn't like combing her hair and drying it after a bath. It was so long. And I would sit and I'd be combing it and she'd be getting annoyed and I'd be getting annoyed. And I would often catch myself and say, you know what? This might be the last time. There will come a time very soon that she won't need me to do this anymore and I will actually miss this. And between writing that in the book and the book being published, she comes out of the bath, she takes a hairdryer, she dries her hair herself, and sometimes I walk past the room and I really do miss it. So much of what we can do are these tiny little mindset shifts that help us so much in the moment because it can be so intense, especially with young children. It can be so intense just to get through the day and just the tiny things that we can arm ourselves with to find that slither of space between stimulus and response, between something our child does and the action that we take because of it. Anything like that can help so much.
[11:59]
B
Still ahead, we talk about the mental load, paternal postpartum depression, advice for couples, and plans for Father's Day. That and more coming up. But first, a break for our sponsors. If you think about your dad or a father figure in your life, what is one happy memory or lesson or story that comes to mind? I have a lot, but I also know there's so much more that I never thought to ask my parents growing up that I could learn from or just better understand. And that's where Storyworth comes in. And side note, this makes a great last minute Father's Day gift. Since there's no shipping needed at this point, you can immediately send your dad the first part of this experience. And from there, each week Storyworth sends your dad a question about his life. He can then respond however he wants, writing back over email or web voice recording or new this year, a guided phone call so there's no tech hassle. And finally, after a year, they compile everything into a beautiful hardcover book for you. I'm already in the process of doing this with my mom and I'm so excited to see the final product in a year's time. So it's one of those gifts that keeps on giving. This year, give Dad a gift that captures who he really is before the stories get harder to remember. Father's day is Sunday, June 21st. Order right now and save up to $20@StoryWorth.com Newsworthy Save up to $20 at StoryWorth.com Newsworthy that's StoryWorth.com Newsworry the Newsworthy is also brought to you by Green Chef. I'm guessing at least part of why you listen to this podcast is because you get a lot of information quickly. The truth is we're busy these days and so we need to be efficient in all areas of our lives, including the kitchen. And Green Chef makes it faster and easier to eat healthy home cooked meals by delivering pre portioned ingredients and easy to follow recipes for meals that can be ready in minutes. I've made meals like chicken with garlic rice, Apricot pan sauce and roasted almonds as well as Maple butternut squash risotto with kale and toasted pecans and my family and I have loved it all. I actually feel proud of what I make with the help of Green Chef. And with Green Chef you can pick what matters to you, from Mediterranean or high protein to their new longevity line built around brain and gut, health and more. My family eats better and with less stress when we use Green chef. Head to greenchef.com 50newsworthy and use the code 50newsworthy to get 50% off your first month, then 20% off for two months. That's code 50newsworthy@greenchef.com 50newsworthy okay, now back to my conversation with Kevin McGuire. I do want to ask you because even as so many dads, you know, want to be more emotionally present and more involved overall than previous generations, at least some research has shown that moms still are bearing more of it. Why do you think that's still the case and what's your take on that?
[14:48]
A
I think it's true. There's been a lot written about the mental load and all this kind of work that the women carry in the house and we are making Headway in the right direction. There was a recent study that said just looking at chores, for example, and I know chores isn't the only thing here. One study found that if the current rate of kind of normalization continues since the pandemic, men and women will be doing an equal amount of work in the house by 2032. I think there is still way more work to be done in, like, men stepping up and understanding more of what needs to be done. Marshall Rosenberg, who wrote the book Nonviolent Communication, talks a lot about the articulation of needs. I think the disconnect that happens is not just on the day to day of what needs to be done, but on the articulation of the needs. I think a lot of couples can get caught into this trap where one person thinks the other person should be doing this, but doesn't actually talk about doing it and vice versa. So it's like, that can be a slippery slope that people get into as well.
[15:51]
B
And I know you've written openly about the paternal postpartum depression that you went through after your son was born. What do you think most people don't realize about that and what helped you get through it?
[16:01]
A
What I found, actually, Erika, in kind of going out and talking about this book is what most people don't know about this is that it actually exists.
[16:08]
B
Right.
[16:09]
A
It has been quite an eye opener for me. A lot of people who feel that it's like, well, hold on, why are guys talking about this? Why? Like, how can a guy talk about paternal postnatal depression when he didn't even have a baby? I don't think people understand that, like, as men are taking more active roles in the household and more active roles in raising children, that this is an issue that they're going through as well. Postpartum depression in all its states are caused by a number of factors. Some of them are hormonal, of course, and women go through huge hormonal shifts. But men also go through huge hormonal shifts after the birth of a child. Like, testosterone drops by up to 25%. It's a thing that actually keeps men around. And the big thing is that if a woman deals with postpartum depression, there is a 50% chance that her husband will go through it as well. You know, in most European countries, women are routinely getting screened for postpartum depression as part of the kind of process after birth. Men are not being asked anything. The dads will kind of be given a slap on the back and said, good luck, go ahead, get on with It. So I think on one side, the systems around us, they need to do a better job at looking out for guys, and guys need to do a much better job of taking responsibility and looking out for each other. Because the thing that I found both times after my wife gave birth is the women in her life came around her. And it's not something that I experienced with my male friends. And I know from speaking to all the other dads over the kind of five years of writing the newsletter and researching this book, it's not something that happens to us. So we need to do a better job as men of sending that text, of picking up that phone, of saying, hey, yeah, I know you had a. I know you had a baby a few weeks ago. Is everything okay? Because if it's not okay, that's okay. And I'm here to talk to you if you want to.
[18:03]
B
And so what did help you get through it?
[18:05]
A
What helped me one was opening up. Like, I opened up to my wife, and I told her, like, I think this is what's happening. I lent on a lot of the research, Erica, of postnatal depression, postpartum depression in women, which was, go find a medical professional and work with them. Talk to friends and family about what you're going through. Eat better, exercise regularly, get out, like, wear the baby on the streets, spend time intentionally with them. And it was a. It was a relief just to know that the feelings that I felt towards my son or the lack of feelings that I felt towards him were not my fault, that I shouldn't be ashamed of being angry or kind of like feeling a sense of grief for a life that we had lost. And this was my second child, so I knew that something wasn't right. My therapist at the time, I said, I don't love my son, and I feel like I won't love him, and I feel like a terrible dad. She said, you will love him eventually, and it will be all the more powerful because you know what you had to go through to get here.
[19:10]
B
And I like how you talked about opening up to your wife. How do you think couples can best think about parenthood and partnership in this new fatherhood generation?
[19:20]
A
One piece of advice that I was given that has been, like, so useful to me in every aspect of parenting was both sit on one side of the table and put the problem on the other side. Whatever it is that you're facing, face it together and put that problem on the other side. I remember on my. On my wedding night, there was an old couple that came up to Us, just as we were about to get into the car and head home. And they walked up and hand in hand, and the husband said to me, he said, listen, you will have good times and you will have bad times, but whatever happens, remember, you're on the same side.
[20:02]
B
I love that. For Father's Day, we celebrate dads in a lot of different ways. But what do you think many dads need more of this Father's Day? And what's your ideal Father's Day look like?
[20:13]
A
I think what more dads need is each other. Like, genuinely, truly, we don't prioritize the connections and community that we have. We need to do a much better job of showing up for the other dads in our lives, just getting together, whether it's having a beer, going to the park. Something I've done. Erica, as part of the newsletter is is we've started these things called Dada Days, and there are 25 cities across the world where dads just meet up regularly. The idea of Dada Days is like, take the kids away, let your wife stay at home and do whatever she wants to do for the day and come to a park and hang out with some other dads or kind of like we'll go down and we'll go to some kind of kid activity that's going on. What I found is so often it's easier for us to open up with a stranger than it is with a friend. So I think definitely dads showing up for each other is something that I think people need more of and that we also need to do a better job of doing ourselves. The perfect Father's Day for me is maybe I'll get up in the morning, I will play some video games with the kids, we'll go out to a park, we might watch a movie of some kind and generally just have a nice chill day together. We're currently working our way through all the Marvel movies. So, you know, maybe we'll. I think, I think there's a Spider man movie next on the list, so maybe we'll, maybe we'll get through that and probably a World cup game, too.
[21:42]
B
Thank you so much to our guest, Kevin McGuire. Go learn more about his book, his substack newsletter and more@newfatherhood.com we'll also link to it in today's episode notes on our website thenewsworthy.com thank you so much for listening. Join us again during the week for all the days News in just 15 minutes. Every Monday through Friday, we help you stay informed even when you're busy, so we'll be back on Monday with the latest news. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend and happy Father's Day.