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The NewsWorthy
Special Edition: How to Disagree This Holiday Season (Without Losing Your S***)
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A
Today is Saturday, November 22, as families get ready to gather for Thanksgiving next week, many may be serving up more than just turkey and pie. There may also be plenty of political tension. Research shows about a quarter of Americans are estranged from at least one family member. And our guest today says she's seen a huge increase in families divided specifically because of politics. So why has this become so common? And more importantly, how do we keep holiday gatherings from turning into holiday blowups or even family breakups? Really, I love this episode. For any time you find yourself disagreeing with someone. My guest today is Angela Caldwell. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist and family coach. She's the founder and director of the Caldwell Family Institute in Los Angeles specializing in family based treatment. And she also teaches graduate students at California State University, Northridge. Today, she explains why political disagreements feel more personal than ever and how families can better navigate these hard moments so they can still stay connected. She gives practical strategies to use even when you're sitting across the table from someone with a lot of different opinions. Welcome. Welcome to THE Newsworthy Special edition Saturday. When we sit down with a different expert or celebrity every Saturday to talk.
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B
About something in the news.
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A
Don't forget to tune in every Monday through Friday for our regular episodes where we provide all the day's news in 10 minutes. I'm Erica. Mandy. It's now time for today's special edition Saturday. Angela Caldwell, thank you so much for joining us here on THE newsworthy.
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C
Thank you for having me, Eric. I'm excited.
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A
So I'm curious if you have a.
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Sense of how common it is for families to disagree on politics today. And either way, you know, how might that impact a family's dynamic?
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C
I've had this front row seat in my clinical position to watch the evolution of family division politically. So 10 years ago, 20 years ago, families could disagree and it could be civil. And I am finding now that my families are fractured. I have a pretty garden variety family therapy practice. And now I have almost entirely politically divided families where we are, we have cut off speaking terms. We are approaching estrangement. It's gotten so divided. So it's incredibly frequent, I'm sad to say.
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A
And you're seeing more specifically about politics.
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And not other relationship dynamics.
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C
That's right.
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A
And so is that because it's now.
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Tied to values and identity more than ever or what's the cause behind that, you think?
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C
My favorite theory is that people are starting to embrace their politics more as a core part of their identity. So the political is becoming very, very Personal for people. Like I said 10 years ago, 20 years ago, somehow we compartmentalized. Somehow we said, I'm over here, this is Angela, and separate from me are my political viewpoints. And I don't think we do that anymore. I think we embody and become our political viewpoints.
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B
Do you think it's like this kind of team base looking for belonging? I'm on this side, you're on that side.
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C
What I in your question is tribalism. And it's not. I don't think it's coming from the voter. I think it's coming from leadership and the way it's being presented to us on a platter, as if the leadership in our country is saying, well, you have to choose this one or this one. And if you think about the World Series, I don't really follow baseball, and there's a lot of people in the world that didn't follow baseball. But. But because it was presented to me as either the Blue Jays or the Dodgers, I felt compelled to choose one. And so I chose a side. And I think other people chose a side because we were presented with two choices. I didn't necessarily feel that 10, 20 years ago, I felt, yes, there's two major parties, but there were a lot of different alternative viewpoints. And now I feel, and I wonder if other people feel presented on a platter with it's this or this, and you better choose. There's also this pressure. You better choose and you better choose now. And if you choose A, you cannot associate with B. And that feels new to me.
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B
And I've seen data to suggest that more than a quarter of Americans now are estranged from at least one family member.
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A
Does that number surprise you? It seemed high to me.
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C
No. I'm getting phone calls. My clients are calling and saying, I don't talk to my dad anymore because of our political differences, or my brother and I can't even be in the same room anymore because of our political differences. I have this front row seat to this climbing number of division and fracture in families.
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A
So let's talk about your advice for.
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How families can handle political disagreements. Should they try to avoid talking politics altogether or do they try to address it?
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C
Can I tell you, I never took a single class in political division in families? None of us did. None of us got a single hour of training and political division in families. And so the advice that I'm about to give comes from this kind of unique perspective that I have as a family therapist sitting with actual families who love, hate each other over this and I boiled it down. I have three tips and they're not easy. So accept that if you follow these pieces of advice, you are agreeing to do something difficult. And that first piece of advice is check your agenda at the door. When we enter into a political encounter with our political opponent in the family, we either consciously or unconsciously have an agenda to change that person's mind. So even if we tell ourselves we're coming in open minded and ready to listen, we have to admit that there is a burning urge inside of us to express our rightitude on the topic and show the other person how very wrong they are. And that is an agenda. So number one is if you know you're headed into a Thanksgiving dinner with political opponents in your family, do a lot of internal work before you go through that door. Sit with yourself and say, I know I have this urge. I know I'm going to want to change minds. I know that I'm going to want to push my views or I'm going to want to point out contradictions. And if you are able to resist that urge and instead embrace this, I know this is difficult, this, this position of curiosity, check your agenda and actually listen to what the other person is saying. That's the first piece of advice.
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A
And I just want to highlight your.
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Words that you said, like this burning urge, because it can kind of turn into a rage feeling.
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C
Yes, it can, it can. And if it gets that far, this conversation is doomed and you're going to do even more damage to the relationship than has already been done. People need to do this work before they get in the car to drive to their sister's house. This is, this is like meditative, hardcore introspection. You've got to sit with yourself and say to yourself very honestly, okay, I know I'm on a mission to change my mom's mind. It's not going to happen. That's not what today is about. If we are going to talk about political things, I'm going to approach this with curiosity. And when I feel that urge coming up, I'm going to swat it down. I'm going to say, not today. Urge, go away. Today is about curiosity. That's the first tip. It's the hardest one. Tip number two, another hard one. This one is I'm telling families and probably I get the furthest in my family therapy with this one is to practice humility. Now a lot of us, especially adult children in adult families, we consider ourselves very well read and very well informed. And so we think of ourselves as informed on X Y Z topic. And if you practice humility, what you're able to do is admit that you are not the high priestess of the political desert that you as informed as you think you are, you don't know everything. They know things that you don't know because they consume different news than you do, they read different books than you do. If you are able to practice humility, it means you're able to knock yourself down a peg. Say, you know what? I don't know everything. And maybe the things that I think I know are not entirely accurate. Maybe the things that I am certain about don't matter as much as I think they matter. Realize that you're just a human, just like your opponent, and neither one of you is the more informed person. It actually makes it easier to stay curious.
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What does that sound like, to be both curious and have humility in a conversation? Let's say somebody at Thanksgiving dinner says something that you believe to be wrong or that you strongly disagree with. What does that look like?
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C
Okay, so I actually have an example from this family that I'm working with right now. So the daughter in this family leans very left and is very, votes very Democratic and her parents lean very right and they vote very Republican. And so there was the divide. She is very active in LGB and trans rights and legislation and that kind of thing. And they started to have their political discourse. So we're in session and we're going back and forth, but she gets kind of upset and she says they were supposed to do something and instead the parents canceled because they wanted to attend Charlie Kirk's funeral online. And she's saying, I don't understand how you could possibly do that when you know, you know that he is so opposed to trans and LGB and, and the dad, I could see him kind of get, get red faced and I held up my hand, it was my signal. Hey, remember we talked about this and he was great and he took a deep breath and he said, instead of saying, charlie Kirk never said that, he said, I didn't know that Charlie Kirk said anything about LGB and trans people. Can you tell me what he said? And then the daughter in this family was able to give information to say she, she had some YouTubes and she said, well, here's a video. And so they watched, you know, a quick little one minute video and the dad practiced humility. He sat back in his chair and he said, okay, I didn't know that. I don't know if it would have changed my mind about attending the funeral. But you're right, I didn't know that he said that. And that is a hurtful thing to say. Now, that might not sound like much, but in from the clinical standpoint, this is huge because the daughter, even though she doesn't like the piece about how he may have still attended the funeral, the daughter feels heard and understood and legitimized. The result of that was that she felt compelled to get to throw him a bone. So when she made a claim and was unable to substantiate it, he said, actually, that's not true, and provided her with what? With his information. And she backed down.
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A
And that also points out it's not.
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About changing their mind. It's about being heard.
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As you said, people want to not be called stupid. People want to not be dismissed for being a liberal or right wing or, you know, whatever labels we're throwing around. They want to be taken serious, especially by their family members. They want their family members to respect them and believe that they came to their viewpoints honestly. And that happens when you can stay curious and practice humility. Your family members feel heard and legitimized by you. So the third tip is to be relentlessly respectful. Now, this is probably the coolest trick in a conversation because of what ends up happening in the conversation. We can all relate to being in family discourses that get out of control and we're name calling now, and they can get real heated. And one person starts with the insults. If you're the one who's trying to be relentlessly respectful, then what that looks like is when your opponent starts to insult you or your viewpoints, when your opponent starts to be offensive, you don't. You breathe. In fact, you let them see you breathe and you don't give in. You do not stoop to that level. You do not respond with a, with an equally offensive retort or comment or an insult or a burn. Now, what's cool about this is the more relentlessly respectful you are to your family member. Yeah, they'll try it a few times, they'll try to burn you. But when they see that you're not burning back, they actually feel like the jerk. And what happens is they back down. And after about a minute or two, it comes down to a respectful, reasonable, sensible conversation level. It's really amazing to see it happen.
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Yeah. Not just respectful. Relentlessly respectful.
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Relentlessly respectful.
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That's right.
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Don't give up.
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But if that doesn't feel doable in the moment, is it better to just say, you know, look, let's change the subject. I love you, but let's change the subject.
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I can't do this right now. At what point do you just get out?
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When you can see that this isn't really. We're not, we're not getting to the, to this cool, respectful exchange of ideas, then I actually, the script that I would love for us to all use is, hey, I can see you care very much about your viewpoints. I do too. So let's leave it and let's move on to our next moment so that we can still have a good time.
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So if you're starting to feel that rage or you're struggling to stay relentlessly respectful, any other kind of tips for that in the moment feeling?
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Okay, you're not going to like this because it's so corny, Erica. It's so corny. So moment that breathing. Find your love for your fellow human. See that in there? When they are insulting and they are offending you, it's because they're scared. It's because they're scared that you've got them, that you're smarter than them, that you have better information than them, that you're more informed than they are. And just in that breath be like, this is just a human who's scared right now. I can love my fellow man. It's okay.
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Still ahead. If you're still skeptical and you find yourself saying but what about family therapist Angela Caldwell has an answer for you. Also, should families talk politics at all? Some say to have those hard conversations, while others say it's better to avoid them entirely. Especially around the holidays. We discuss how to think about that choice and what to watch for in the moment. Plus a common mistake that turns disagreements.
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Into all out fights.
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How to repair when feelings get hurt and when it might actually be time to walk away for good. That and more after this break. For our sponsors, this episode of the Newsworthy is brought to you by BetterHelp. For some people, the holiday season can be a time for gathering. For others, it can be a time of stress or loneliness or maybe it's a little bit of both. So check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones and remind people in your life that you're there whether or not you agree on everything. I always feel better after sending that text to someone I'm thinking about or bringing that coffee to a friend who could use a pick me up or even telling someone when I'm extra stressed out. And just like those things can take a little extra effort and courage, so can reaching out for therapy. But I've found it's worth it. We're all healthier when we have Support. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct, and if you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to a different therapist at any time. From their tailored recommendations this month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10% off their first month@betterhelp.com newsworthy that's betterhelp.com newsworthy the newsworthy is also brought to you by Hiya Health. As a parent, there's so much to keep up with and try to get right. But let's be real with a four year old that can feel like a moving target when it comes to nutrition. Some days he eats great, other days it seems like he's surviving on crackers and bread. And many kids vitamins seem to basically be sugar gummies. But Haya is different. My son takes both the daily vitamin and the probiotic every day and the best part is he's actually excited about it. He loves the taste, he loves adding stickers to the bottle and I love knowing it's made with zero sugar, zero gummy junk and all the essentials that kids often miss. Plus every batch is third party tested for heavy metals and microbials in a qualified GMP compliant lab. And by the way, Haya now also has the Kids Daily Greens plus Superfoods, a chocolate flavored greens powder specifically for kids. Packed with over 55 whole food ingredients, you scoop, shake and sip with milk or a non dairy alternative for a nutritious boost your kids will actually enjoy. Now we've worked out a special deal with Hiya for their best selling children's vitamin receive 50% off your first order. To claim this deal you must go to hiahealth.com newsworthy this deal is not available on their regular website. Go to H I Y A H E a l t h.com newsworthy and get your kids the full body nourishment they need to grow into healthy adults. Now back to my conversation with family therapist Angela Caldwell. What do you think about some people feeling like we have to have these hard conversations if we're gonna get anywhere.
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And other people saying it's not worth it to talk politics?
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Let's just avoid it.
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When I'm going in, I'm Gonna say, let's change the subject immediately.
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What's your take on which one to go with?
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So my take is, I don't like. I don't like for any of us to have a hard and fast rule like that. That I don't like the infl. Flexibility of that. I'd rather we go in, feel the room, read our. Our opponent's mood and energy, and make a decision. Then I know where you're coming from because I've heard other people have what I'm going to call these family policies. And the policies are restrictive and oppressive, and families don't like that. So I would rather go in with a. I don't know, more of a case by case judgment call. Don't have policies, they're too restrictive. And then what happens is if you have policies and then someone violates the policy, now you're in a fight about.
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The fight, or it can feel like.
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There'S an elephant in the room and.
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It'S awkward and yeah, yeah, yeah, that's no fun.
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What are some common pitfalls that people.
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Fall into when they try to have a productive conversation, but it doesn't go well? What are some common mistakes?
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Contradictions. So playing Gotcha is a huge mistake. And it's when you've convinced yourself, okay, maybe I don't know everything, so there's the humility. And you thought like, okay, you know what? I'm going to be curious about this. And as you're listening, your opponent contradicts themselves. And the biggest mistake that you can make in that moment is call it out. Ah, gotcha. You said this, but what about this? How can you believe both things, right? Which means that you aren't really being honest with yourself about checking your agenda. Right? And being truly curious. The better approach to take there is to kind of note it like, oh, those two things don't really go together. Wait for a soft moment. Because they do come, especially if you're being relentlessly respectful. Wait for a soft moment and say, hey, I want to come back to this thing that you said. You contradicted yourself, but I don't think you meant to help me reconcile these two statements and then say them. You said A, but you said B. And I know you're going somewhere with this. Give them the benefit of the doubt. When we play Gotcha, it's such a conversation crusher. That's when the other person's going to start hurling insults at you. That's when they feel caught in a trap. When the truth is, we all feel ambivalent about things and maybe sound like, we think two ways and that's okay and it's normal.
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And let's say a disagreement does go too far.
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Feelings get hurt one way or another. How can family members begin to repair things afterward?
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Okay, here's how to repair. You know how fights go in families where you have an argument and it's real heated and then it's awkward and probably someone leaves the room, or everyone just kind of quietly eats their turkey and no one's looking at each other. You have to let that pass. That's just time.
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Right.
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And usually it takes like an hour or so for that to pass. Or we, you know, someone is gracious enough to change topics and we move on. But there's this tension now.
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Right.
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It's on you to find the moment later in the living room and approach them for what we call the repair to the rupture.
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Right.
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And to acknowledge it. To say, hey, I think I really hurt your feelings back there. I want you to know that that was a weak moment for me. I know you came to your viewpoint. Honestly, I shouldn't have said what I said. We don't have to talk about it anymore. I just want you to know that I'm apologizing. If you're the one that's hurt, you can also actively seek out a repair from the other side by giving benefit of the doubt. Same idea. Wait for the hour or two to pass. Wait until it's a softer moment. Approach that person acknowledge, hey, it got pretty heated back there, and I want you to know that you said some pretty hurtful things, but I don't think you meant to hurt me. I think you were trying to tell me something and I just wanted to know if you'd be open to trying again someday. It doesn't have to be now. But I just, I know you. I know you didn't mean to hurt my feelings. Now, probably, Erica, what's going to happen there is the other person's going to.
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Apologize and say you're giving them the benefit of the doubt and not just you hurt me.
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Yes. Instead of saying, hey, that really hurt. Well, that's. The person's going to become defensive. But if you say, hey, I know you didn't mean to hurt me, then more likely the person's going to take responsibility and say, yeah, I don't. That's not what I meant when I said that. Or, yeah, I'm so. I'm sorry. That's. I, that was. That was uncalled for. Or, yeah, I kind of Crossed the line there.
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Do you think it's important to be.
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Aware of generational differences? You know, older people might handle something one way. Younger generations. Generations tend to handle something a different way. And can being aware of that help the situation?
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I will be honest. I don't think about the generational gap when it comes to this kind of internal, intimate family relationship because they're not thinking about generation. I do think that probably can help to be aware. Where that's going to go badly is when it becomes dismissive. So in your mind, if you're thinking like, well, she's young, she's a millennial, so what did I expect? Or God, he's so old, course his views are antiquated. So if so, keeping it in mind and being aware that generations deal with things differently is good. But if you take it as far as to therefore dismiss everything they have to say, it can become poison.
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Despite the tension that we've been talking about in the increase of this political polarization that you've seen in your own practice.
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Yeah.
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Are you also seeing any positive trends, maybe signs that people are realizing, well, demonizing each other really isn't working to fix the problem. Maybe we do need to get better at navigating disagreement. Have you noticed some of that kind of swinging back at all?
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Yeah, I notice that in the work that we're in, this family therapy that we're doing. And by the way, you don't have to go to family therapy for it. You can do. You can use these tips in your own family over the holidays. The more positive experiences we are offering each other, the more we're making it safe to disagree right now in the world, it feels very unsafe to disagree. The more family members offer each other exchanges that are comfortable and maybe not even positive, but safe, you know, like respectful and safe. The more people are realizing that, that we can actually disagree, maybe we can return to that time where we could hold different viewpoints and still maintain an intimate relationship.
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And what I can just hear people.
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Saying, but when, you know, but when they're okay with this policy, that means they're okay with treating certain people this way and, you know, making these connections of. You're kind of a bad person if you think it's okay to treat people that way.
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What's your response to people who say.
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That what you just did is an example of. Of a way to point out a contradiction to someone? Remember we were talking about that gotcha game? Don't play gotcha, but play. I can't reconcile approach with curiosity. Instead of saying, well, if you think this, then you must think this. Well, then you're guilty of mind reading. And that's not fair. Instead, go to a person with your confusion, say, hey, you think this. And so the assumption that I'm making is this, is that right? Tell me, tell me where I've got it wrong because I know you to be a good person. And so I'm thinking, I don't really think that you want to mistreat people. So help me with this.
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B
At what point do you think that estrangement is maybe the way to go versus let's just keep trying in different ways.
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I'm going to give you the answer that most therapists will give you. It's when there's abuse without remorse, it's the last resort. Every family therapist hates this solution, but we have to accept sometimes it is the solution because someone is abusive and showing no remorse for their behavior, even when it has been repeatedly pointed out to them. Yeah, that relationship is a failure, unfortunately.
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And when you say abuse, just to.
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Be clear, both physical and psychological.
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Yes. Yeah. Emotional, verbal, any kind of abuse.
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A
Anything else you want to add or just a final takeaway for our listeners?
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So I'm a little obsessed with Father Greg Boyle right now. He wrote this book that recently, cherish belonging. And in this book he makes this plea to society. He said, right now there is too much tribalism and not enough village. I love that thought because in a village, when we think of a village, a Native American village, you have to live with all kinds of personalities. You don't really have a choice. You have to work together, you have to play together, you have to raise kids together. And so you become very forgiving of each other's human deficits and flaws. And if we can be relentlessly respectful, if we can practice humility, if we cannot push our agendas on one another and just tolerate each other's differences, we are going to be able to move toward the village and away from the.
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Tribes, as you're saying. I think not just within our families, but with our friends, our neighbors and.
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Society as a whole.
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C
Yes, globally, absolutely.
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A
Well, thank you so much to our guest today, Angela Caldwell, for sharing such good insights and strategies. Go to angelacodwell.com to learn more about her and her services and we'll of course link to it in today's episode notes on our website as well. Be sure to join us again during the week to catch our 10 minute daily news roundups to stay in the know on what's in the news before your Thanksgiving gathering with hopefully calm and civil conversations next week. We'll be back on Monday with the latest news to know. For now, have a great rest of your weekend.