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- [00:00]
Erica Mandy
Today is Saturday, January 24th. The ice crackdown in Minneapolis has put the city and the country on edge. Videos from the Twin Cities have spread quickly, showing arrests, protests and confrontations that have sparked sharp debate about safety, accountability and the role of federal law enforcement. So today we're listening to two very different perspectives on what's happening and why. First, you'll hear from Nicole Badara, a Minneapolis based sociologist and anti violence expert who describes what life actually looks like on the ground from both her personal and professional experiences. We talk about what's happening in neighborhoods and schools, as well as the forms of resistance and response from residents. Then we'll turn to Matthew Silverman, the national president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association. He shares how federal agents are experiencing this moment, the risks they say they're facing, and why they believe much of the context is being lost online. This episode is not meant to be about taking sides or presenting arguing pundits. It's about trying to understand a tense moment from multiple angles and what it means for communities, often officers, and the future of immigration enforcement. Welcome to THE NEWSWORTHY Special edition Saturday when we sit down with a different expert or celebrity every Saturday to talk about something in the news. Don't forget to tune in every Monday through Friday for our regular episodes where we provide all the day's news in less than 15 minutes. I'm Erica Mandy. It's now time for today's special edition Saturday. Nicole Badara, thank you so much for joining us here on THE newsworthy.
- [01:28]
Nicole Badara
Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.
- [01:30]
Erica Mandy
So I know you live in the Twin Cities. Can you first share a bit about what you've actually seen or experienced there on the ground personally? And then also, what's most standing out to you as a sociologist when you look at this situation, if you don't.
- [01:45]
Nicole Badara
Know what to look for, you could think that it's just a little too quiet outside. When ICE appears in a neighborhood, it's in a flurry of action that they are in and out very quickly. And so often what you see is all of the anxiety leading up to that and then the aftermath afterwards. So, for example, I was driving home and I didn't see any ICE agents myself, but I did see all of my neighbors on one block standing outside of their houses. And so it was clear the ICE had just left. Everyone was distraught. At the time that we were driving through, people were starting to check on each other, figure out what needed to happen next. But aside from that, the rest of the neighborhood just felt Too quiet. I mean, it really did feel similar to what it would look like in your neighborhood if a beloved neighbor had just been taken away in an ambulance. And everybody was sort of shell shocked from seeing that. And now they're coming together to say, we need to contact their, you know, their family member who lives on the other side of town. Does anybody have their number? They have a dog. That dog needs a walk today. Is there anybody who can take the dog for the day? There's a child that needs to be picked up from school. They have a child. Can anybody watch the child? Does anybody already have a relationship with that kid? That's the kind of conversations that people in Minneapolis are having after their neighbors are taken. It's the same thing you would see in any other emergency, but with this higher level of terror and this deeper level of concern that, you know, if your neighbor is going away in an ambulance, there's a pretty good chance that they're coming back. And when ICE takes your neighbor, there's no guarantee that that's going to happen, even if they have every legal right to be there. And we can feel that absence in every single place. You can tell that a lot of students are missing from school, and also that there are a lot of parents who are spending time around the school during pickup and drop off because they're not sure of what could potentially happen. ICE has sent tear gas to pick up and drop off at schools in the past couple of weeks.
- [03:40]
Erica Mandy
There might be some people who are questioning that. Like there must have been a reason for that. Was that a specific incident that you can share a little bit more about?
- [03:48]
Nicole Badara
Yeah, so the first time that something like that happened was at Roosevelt High, which is in my neighborhood. It's a public school. And it was the same day that Renee Goode was killed. ICE agents came to the school. For reasons that I personally don't know, it was a targeted operation either in or around the school. But it's a chaotic scene when students come out of class, and there are a lot of high schoolers everywhere. And the way ICE responded to that was by tear gassing the students themselves as they were trying to leave campus. There were some physical altercations of ICE agents attacking high school students who are children. And so when I'm talking about that specific incident, that's the one that's coming to mind when I say tear gas. But there have also been reports all across the Twin Cities of schools coming under siege by ice, where people have to do things like create human chains to make sure that Their children can get into a daycare. They seem to be specifically targeting really anywhere in the Twin Cities, but especially places like Spanish immersion preschools. If you're not living in Minneapolis, you might not know. But actually, all of the schools in the Twin Cities closed for the rest of the week after Renee Goode was killed and after the tear gassing incident at Roosevelt High. And when they returned in person, a lot of them have had to close again or go into lockdown because of ICE activity targeting schools or that are in the neighborhoods nearby. And schools are getting caught in the crossfire. I've only really seen estimates coming from people who I personally know in Minneapolis, but they're saying things like, half of the kids in my child's class didn't come to school, or now they're coming back online and one of their classmates got detained by ICE on video while class was online. And so a lot of the places in society that you might think would be safe havens, places like schools, hospitals, food banks, there's really a sense that none of these places are off limits to ice. And if anything, they're going to places where people are most vulnerable because they know that those are the places where people might feel like they have to take a risk.
- [05:46]
Erica Mandy
So what types of protesting are you actually seeing happening there? And also from, you know, a data or fact based viewpoint, have those methods been effective for the people who do want to see change?
- [06:00]
Nicole Badara
The definition of protester is really different right now, depending on who you ask. So in the view of the federal government, anybody who is opposed to what ICE is doing in Minneapolis in any way is a protester. So someone who does something like helps their neighbor who can't safely go to the grocery store, have groceries brought to their house, or helps them with their laundry or childcare, in some views, in the federal government, they're now being seen as protesters. We're not just talking about people that are engaging in the conventional types of protests. We're also seeing things like mutual aid, where people are helping people get their groceries, they're helping people get their laundry done. They're helping them with all of the really basic things that we leave our houses to do.
- [06:38]
Erica Mandy
And just to be clear, for people, you're talking about people who are afraid to leave their homes because they are afraid they might be deported or detained for not being a citizen.
- [06:49]
Nicole Badara
Right. And that swath of people is a lot bigger than I think a lot of people would expect. It's not just people who are undocumented immigrants or who have a criminal History. It's people of color in general, it's immigrants in general. Because one of the things that's happening with ICE right now is they're detaining people first and asking questions later. There are reports that people are having difficulty getting access to lawyers, that legal documents have been destroyed. And so the definition of who is unsafe in Minneapolis is a lot broader than people might initially think. And then the other one that's getting a lot of attention right now is something called ICE Watch. And ICE Watch is really just the act of observing law enforcement in general. It didn't start with ice. This specific tactic of de escalation has been around for a long time. But the point is that general citizens will come and record what they're seeing. They will offer assistance to anyone who maybe got caught in the crossfire or may have been injured or harmed. But the point is simply to observe. And the goal is to de escalate violence. The goal is for ICE agents, when they know they're being watched, to think twice and to hesitate before they choose violence. And on a social science side, there's a lot of data to support that this would work. What we know about perpetrators of violence, and men in particular, is that there's only a very small handful of them who are independently motivated to be violent. The overwhelming majority of violent men are engaging in violence because they want to impress someone. They're seeking power and status and approval. And what ICE Watch does is surrounds those very people with a disapproving audience. And so they do second guess. They do rethink what their original plan was. And so if you've been following what's going on in Minneapolis, you've probably seen a lot of videos of ICE agents changing their mind in the middle of a raid, leaving without detaining anyone, leaving without violence. We're seeing these big caravans of 6, 12, sometimes even more ICE agents to be able to detain a single person. That's actually proof that this external pressure from ICE Watch is working. It makes the whole process more resource intensive. It slows it down.
- [09:01]
Erica Mandy
What about concerns that ICE Watch or protesters are in fact getting in the way of federal agents trying to do their jobs and. Or could provoke more aggressive enforcement from agents, maybe. Now there's the 12 agents who are ready to take down the crowd.
- [09:18]
Nicole Badara
I think after Renee Goode was killed, a lot of people worried that ICE would be turning guns on people on a regular basis in Minnesota. And it's not that they haven't done that. There have been other shootings since Then. But we haven't seen the types of escalations that I think a lot of us feared. And a big reason for that is because the communities in Minnesota have come out to observe and to let people know this is something they're not okay with.
- [09:42]
Erica Mandy
And so if it's true, even as a court order has said the federal agents are violating people's first and Fourth Amendment rights in this situation, then it does raise the question, if legal rights on paper don't fully protect people in the moment, what tools or frameworks do residents have to navigate that reality? If I, as long as I'm not impeding, I have the right to observe here, but that's still getting me detained. What can someone do?
- [10:06]
Nicole Badara
Something that you'll hear a lot in Minnesota right now is that there is a place for everyone to participate at whatever that comfort level is. For people who don't feel comfortable engaging in ICE Watch, things like mutual aid is a great way to participate. So things like being able to watch somebody's kids while they go out to observe for ice, there are a lot of material conditions that need to be satisfied for people to have time, energy, and resources to be able to show up. And so if you're not the person who wants to show up yourself, maybe you can meet some of those needs instead. But I'll also say that ICE Watch is not as dangerous as it sounds. There isn't a lot of data, official formal data, of how many people are participating in ICE Watch right now. But I can say from my own block, from my own community, it's a huge number, bigger than anyone outside of Minnesota can even begin to conceptualize.
- [10:55]
Erica Mandy
Is there a point in which government in general can't look away, like a certain number of people participating, where the influence is more likely?
- [11:03]
Nicole Badara
So one of the earliest sociological theories was by someone named Max Weber. And his theory was about what gives someone the authority to govern. It was a question of what makes domination legitimate. When do we give someone power over us? And one of the things that he wrote is that violence is always an illegitimate form of domination, and that makes it weak and unstable. And so one of the things we've seen across the historical record is that when countries start resorting to using physical violence to control their people, leadership tends to fall apart very quickly. Sometimes it's as simple as the party that's currently in power in government losing their power and becoming unpopular. And that's a lot of what I'm thinking about when I'm watching what's happening in Minneapolis is that There are a lot of people getting out on the streets and saying this form of governance is illegitimate. I do think that we're starting to see that kind of a tipping point, and it remains to be seen whether that will lead into a national movement as well. Yeah.
- [12:04]
Erica Mandy
What are you noticing about people across the country and how they're reacting? And are people kind of just slipping into going with their political teams, if you will, or does this seem to be shaking things up a little bit in the polls?
- [12:17]
Nicole Badara
We're definitely seeing a shift in public opinion across the country. We're starting to see a lot of erosion in support for ice. We're seeing a lot of support for the abolition of ICE altogether. To say this is not an agency we need. And for people who think that sounds radical, I might remind them that ICE has only existed since 2003.
- [12:34]
Erica Mandy
Post 9 11.
- [12:36]
Nicole Badara
Post 9 11. The US has managed issues of immigration in the past without ICE. We have ICE agents asking people in the streets to see their papers, to see documentation. And so some of the people who in the past have been pretty loud supporters of Donald Trump are starting to rethink that, are starting to question him. One of the things that I think outside of Minneapolis, people can't really see is there's this thought that this was a completely spontaneous reaction, that after Renee Goode was killed, that that's the thing that drew a red line for people, but that's not actually true. A lot of people in Minneapolis were already doing things to support their neighbors around ICE arriving at the end of November. Part of why we've gotten so much coverage and why this has gotten so big in the state of Minnesota is because there was already an organized response underway. And a lot of that comes from the legacies of Black Lives Matter protests.
- [13:31]
Erica Mandy
So for people outside the Twin Cities who do feel strongly about what's happening but aren't directly involved, what are some effective methods for them to have an impact?
- [13:40]
Nicole Badara
Anyone who can donate to a mutual aid fund would be doing a huge help. There is a website called Stand With Minnesota that has a ton of local organizations that have been vetted by people like our local officials to help get resources to the people who need them so you can be materially involved in what's happening in the Twin Cities. There are lots of different organizations in communities all across the country that are starting to organize to prepare for when ICE comes to their community. But if you're not quite ready to do that yet, Just saying. I'm going to spend every Thursday evening with my friend who I know is also bothered by what's going on is where a lot of organizing found its roots.
- [14:15]
Erica Mandy
Given your expertise and what you've observed so far, what's the most important thing for listeners to understand about this moment?
- [14:22]
Nicole Badara
Dissent is a good thing, that it is part of freedom of speech. A fundamental part of a free society is that people should be allowed to express those things. It's a sign of a healthy democracy. And often when we see this kind of dissent, it happens at a time when our democracy, something unhealthy is happening inside of it. And that's why people are expressing their concern. And so one of the really big takeaways I would want anybody to have is that when you see protesters, your reaction should not be fear, your reaction should be some hope and maybe even some appreciation that people who have strong political views are still able to express them in the U.S.
- [15:02]
Erica Mandy
Still ahead, a very different view of this same moment. You'll hear from Matthew Silverman, the national president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association. He shares his response to viral videos, public criticism and the risks officers say they're facing. Also, what he wants the public to understand about officers roles and responsibilities. But first, a quick break for our sponsor. Here's something that may surprise you. I still look forward to getting the mail every day. In fact, it's kind of a fun thing my son likes to do with us. He'll run out to the mailbox and loves to turn the key and see what's inside. Plus, there's just something about that physical personal touch. But you might be asking, Erica, what about the junk mail? Yeah, I know. No thanks. That's why I'm a fan of Gunder. They create smart, targeted direct mail that people actually want. It's not junk, it's intentional, well crafted mail going to the right audience for the products and services they need. And you know what? There's a level of trust and attention with physical mail. In a world full of AI generated content and sketchy digital ads, this is something real hand delivered by a human. And here's the kicker. Direct mail response rates are way higher than digital, often more than 30 times the response rate of email and other digital ads. So if you're a business owner, CMO or marketing manager and want to reach better customers and cut through the noise of digital clutter, check out Gunder. And don't miss their free 2026 direct mail lookbook packed with over 500 real creative examples that drive response. Just visit trustdirectmail.com and get yours. Free hand delivered, of course. That's trustdirectmail.com okay, now to my conversation with Matthew Silverman, national president of the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association. Matthew Silverman, thank you so much for joining us here on the Newsworthy.
- [16:44]
Matthew Silverman
Appreciate you having me.
- [16:46]
Erica Mandy
So from your vantage point, how has what's happening in Minneapolis right now affected the federal officers you represent that are there?
- [16:54]
Matthew Silverman
Our law enforcement officers are out doing a job that is mandated by their bosses, which is directed by congressional pieces of legislation to go out there and do this. Immigration Customs Enforcement efforts. And because of what they're doing, they're being targeted. They're being doxed. Their family members, their home addresses are being put on social media. And it is creating a lot of undue stress, mental health and wellness issues for our already stressed law enforcement officers that are out there on the streets every single day trying to keep America as safe as possible.
- [17:25]
Erica Mandy
And I know you've talked about the fact that they're wearing masks because of some of that targeting and doxing that you mentioned. Can you explain that a little bit? And also, what's your response to concerns that there's a lack of accountability when officers are hiding their identities?
- [17:39]
Matthew Silverman
I think that 100% these law enforcement officers should be able to be identified with something. They need to have a badge, a badge number, the agency that they work for. So if something does happen, there is recourse via either civil suits or lawsuits or criminal prosecution or internal affairs and investigations through their agency. We need to be held accountable just like everybody else needs to be held accountable. What we don't need is we don't need our addresses and family members and people following our kids home from school. And I'll tell you this, I am not a proponent of masks. So it's not something that I push that our agents or our officers wear masks. I don't like the look of masks. However, I completely understand why they're wearing their masks because of the doxing that's going on. So, for instance, the shooting that happened in Minneapolis with the Immigration Customs Enforcement agent, his home address was put online, his pictures were put online, his family members were put online, and he had to leave his home with his kids and go into hiding because he was doing his job and he was being convicted via social media prior to an investigation even being completed. And what I try to explain to everybody is let's get all the facts, let's get all the documents, let's get that all together before we start using our digital means to convict, to try and to put somebody on blast, on social media that could impact their lives.
- [18:58]
Erica Mandy
Is there anything else you want people to know about the shooting death of Renee Goode and ultimately with the investigations? Do you think the public can trust those even with local law enforcement not being involved at all?
- [19:09]
Matthew Silverman
I know that law enforcement in general, they wanna make sure that if there is a situation that is not right, if we have a bad rogue cop that's out there, we don't want them in our forces. We don't want them standing next to us because they ultimately make us look bad. Nobody hates a bad cop more than a good cop because we have strived our entire lives. For instance, myself, ever since I can remember as a very, very young child wanting to be a law enforcement officer. This is my career. This isn't just a job. This is my career. And if I lost my job or my career due to something like this, I would be devastated. So we want to have those safeguards in place where internal affairs is going to be able to weed out the ones that don't deserve to be in law enforcement. And quite frankly, with this case, all everybody was going off of was one bystander's point of view. And those point of views can be very, very skewed by other means.
- [19:59]
Erica Mandy
Is it typical for an officer involved shooting involving a federal officer to only be investigated by federal agencies? And how might that impact the perception from the public of the investigation into that particular incident?
- [20:11]
Matthew Silverman
So it depends on what state you're in. So there are some states that state and locals will jump in and assist. But in most cases that I'm aware of, at least our shootings were federal officers and were federal agents stuff is investigated by either the Federal Bureau of Investigation or our own home agency. We're the ones that know the policies and procedures that we have in each one of our different agencies. So I think that it's fully in their right to be able to look at a shooting. If you're a state and local agency to look at a shooting, but to actually investigate it, I think that needs to be held. On the federal side, is it fair.
- [20:43]
Erica Mandy
To say that it's not only the public jumping to conclusions, but also some elected officials who are making sense statements about what happened before the investigation is fully underway. And that is what is making some people question the reliability of the investigation.
- [20:59]
Matthew Silverman
So there are a lot of statements that were put out there and I'm not going to say that I agree with those statements. I think it was just too early in the investigation to come out and say certain things. That were being said. But we also need to look at it in a different direction. This officer was getting hammered by every social media outlet that was out there, by news media sources. So to have an actual administration that's going to stand up for the officers doing the jobs that they are directing them to do, I applaud them to be out there and actually stand up for these officers and agents. These officers and agents underneath the previous administration unfortunately did not feel like they were able to go out there and do the jobs that they were hired for. They felt like they were handcuffed and bringing in the new administration. They feel like they're set free to actually be able to do the things that they are congressionally mandated to do and the things that they wanted to get out there and do. And that's make this country safe. That's deport illegal immigrants. Do I feel bad for the illegal immigrants that are in this country who are law abiding citizens, who have families who have been here for decades, who have never created problems 100%, that sucks. I feel bad for them because they are getting pulled into positions with people that are career criminals who are here illegally. The bottom line is though that they're here illegally and there's legal means to get into this country and there's legal means to follow to get your citizenship, your green cards and work in this country. And we need to start thinking about how we can get these law abiding immigran who are here for decades through the process and allow them to stay. The ones that have proven track records, allow them to stay. Because it is heartbreaking for a lot of Americans, including myself, to see these families be torn apart. But once again, the bottom line is they should not be in this country.
- [22:40]
Erica Mandy
There is footage of US citizens being aggressively detained and then later released without charges. How do you think the public should think about videos like those? What do they show? What do they don't show?
- [22:51]
Matthew Silverman
So you asked the question a couple minutes ago and I think I missed a point that I wanted to say. And then I'll jump right into that because I think it links well together in the shooting in Minneapolis with good. If she would have listened to directions from law enforcement officers, she would still be alive today. And I think that is a very, very impactful and important thing for people to realize.
- [23:09]
Erica Mandy
I have to ask you because is that an assumption based on the video, without the investigation, like we were just talking about?
- [23:15]
Matthew Silverman
It's not even an assumption. It goes well beyond an assumption if people would comply with lawful Orders.
- [23:22]
Erica Mandy
There have been claims, though, that from her wife, that she was confused. So I'm just. I'm just curious.
- [23:27]
Matthew Silverman
Of course.
- [23:27]
Erica Mandy
Yeah.
- [23:28]
Matthew Silverman
So when. When you have law enforcement officers around you, and I've watched the video as well. All right, you have a law enforcement officer who is pulling on the door handle, literally saying, stop the car. Get out of the car, get out of the car. You have the wife who is saying, drive, baby, drive. All right, that's a problem. You have an officer. You have officers that are all around you, and now you have officers that have guns pointed towards you and you're trying to flee a scene. All right, People in social media have said that she did not break the law, that she did nothing wrong. Why did they try to detain her? And that's absolutely false. She 100% broke the law. She broke the law when she pulled her vehicle across multiple lanes of traffic and blocked traffic. That is against the law. You cannot do that. She broke the law when she tried to drive away after law enforcement officers told her not to drive away. If she did not try to drive away, 99.9% sure she would have never been shot and killed.
- [24:18]
Erica Mandy
This is a tough one. I don't want to have to get into it back and forth. But Minneapolis's police chief has talked about the federal agent being in front of the vehicle when that's basic law enforcement knowledge, not to stand there. So there's a lot of elements, again, going back to, does it need a full investigation from both perspectives.
- [24:34]
Matthew Silverman
There are. Listen, there's no policies and procedures saying we're an officer, an agent can stand so that Minneapolis police chief who doesn't want ice in his area, you know, he's going to say what he wants to say. He wants to keep his job. And he has a Democratic mayor who. Who, if he's not listening, then he's probably going to lose his job. So it's one of the problems with law enforcement in this day and age. Unless you're an elected sheriff who is elected by the people. If you are a police chief or a police commissioner and you're in a state that is either blue or red, and they want you to do one thing, you don't do it. You know, you have a chance of losing your job. So you're going to say the things, even if you don't believe in it. My point is more so let's not even talk about the good case. Let's just talk about 99% of the other ones. If you comply with what law enforcement officers are asking you to do. Whether you feel that they are violating your constitutional rights or not, there's ways and means to go about that after the fact. If an officer is telling you to put something down, get down on the ground, get your hands out of your pockets, and you're like, no, I'm not going to do that because I didn't do anything wrong, that's when things are going to start getting escalated. All I'm asking is for citizens out there. There's means to file complaints, file lawsuits on officers if you feel that your constitutional rights are being violated. I'm asking them to please follow that and think about that before they start trying to disobey lawful orders.
- [25:50]
Erica Mandy
How do you think groups like ICE Watch potentially impact some of the operations that are happening?
- [25:55]
Matthew Silverman
I think what we're doing is we're putting people in harm's way. What they don't understand is many of these cases, these ICE agents and other agents that are out there with them are going after child sex predators, rapists, murderers, home invasions, all of that stuff. And by doing what they're doing towards ICE right now is that they're impeding these investigations. So it's not just they're looking for people that are here illegally. There's a lot of other operations that are going on at the same time. And by doing that, you're impeding, unfortunately, law enforcement getting some of the most violent felons off the streets also. And they're doing that with the hopes that they're going to be able to stop them from getting those, like we talked about earlier, those law abiding illegal immigrants who are here with families to help save them. But in retrospect, they're actually helping a lot of these criminals as well.
- [26:46]
Erica Mandy
Community policing has been a big thing in the past. Do you think that protesters and law enforcement could work together more or what would you like to see happen?
- [26:54]
Matthew Silverman
I think law enforcement needs to work with the communities. If law enforcement loses the support of our communities, we just lost the game. We need people that are going to be leaders in those communities that are going to give us the information that we need in order to keep Everybody safe. So 100% community policing, I feel has gone down compared to what the last administration was. I think that community policing has gone down, but that's because enforcement is up. So sometimes it makes it very hard to do both of those things. We need to make sure that we are enforcing these laws by any means possible. And when we're getting as much pushback that we're getting that community policing kind of goes out the window. So I am hopeful that once we get through a lot of these immigration enforcement operations that we're doing that we're going to jump back in to building those bonds with the community so we can get back into good graces with a lot of those community leaders that can give us the information that we need to combat even more violent crime that will happen without having it in place.
- [27:57]
Erica Mandy
At the end of the day, when you see the videos out of Minneapolis or, and. Or are talking to people directly involved, what's your overall view of what's happening in Minneapolis and how agents are conducting themselves?
- [28:10]
Matthew Silverman
I won't lie. I mean, I've seen things that some agents have done that I don't agree with. I've seen some agents walk up to bystanders. All right, listen, if you're going to stand in front of a vehicle while there's a motorcade coming through of law enforcement officers and you want to stand in the way and you want to block traffic, I have no problem with those officers or agents getting out of the vehicle, asking you to move. You don't move, and then forcefully removing you from that situation. They have a job to do and you're impeding their job, which is against the law. You can't do that. However, I've also seen other bystanders that are on the side of the road and maybe they're yelling and law enforcement officers walking over them and pushing them down to the ground or pepper spraying them. I don't agree with that. So, yes, you. You have the good and you have the bad, without a doubt. But the problem is that with the agitators that we have out there and the law enforcement officers who are getting assaulted at a higher rate, a much higher rate than they've ever been with the doxing that is going on at a much higher rate than they've ever been. Everyone's on edge and everybody's trying to go home to their families at night. And we have these politicians that are out there that are fighting tooth and nail at everything that our agents are doing. And like I said, these jobs are mandated by the president on down and congressionally. And if they do violate those laws, then they'll get prosecuted for it.
- [29:28]
Erica Mandy
Anything else you want to add or just a final thought?
- [29:29]
Matthew Silverman
I just think our officers and agents are at a stress level right now that they've never been at before. And I think that the majority of our citizens do still believe in law enforcement and law and order. It's the agitators and the ones that are out there right now who are looking for a reason to get out there and just wait. Mark my words, the looting like happened in 2020, we need to make sure that it doesn't get to that point. So please just think about these business owners and the people that are out there in the communities before we start burning things down and looting and rioting. If you want to change laws, you need to go to Capitol Hill. You need to talk to your congressmen and your senators. That's how laws will be changed out in the street. Doing what's going on is not going to change anything.
- [30:13]
Erica Mandy
Thank you so much to both of our guests today and thank you for listening. Please consider sending this episode to someone you think might find these perspectives valuable and join us again during the week to stay updated on all the day's news. We provide a look at the news that's happening every Monday through Friday in less than 15 minutes in our fast, fair, fun style. And then you get these more in depth interviews every Saturday. So we'll be back on Monday with the latest news. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.