The NewsWorthy: Special Edition
Episode: Politics, Power & the Price of a Shutdown
Date: October 18, 2025
Host: Erica Mandy
Guest: Jonathan Birx, EVP for Economic and Health Policy at the Bipartisan Policy Center
Overview
In this special edition, host Erica Mandy sits down with policy veteran Jonathan Birx to untangle the causes, impact, and possible resolution of the ongoing federal government shutdown—the longest in history. The conversation covers who gets hit hardest, why shutdowns keep recurring, how decisions about pay and “essential” workers are made, the partisan standoff over health subsidies, and why average Americans might be more influential than they realize in breaking the impasse.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Scope and Impact of the Shutdown
- Affected Federal Workers:
- 1.8 million federal employees are impacted.
- 700,000 are furloughed, the rest are working without pay or under special authorities.
- If the shutdown continues, paying these workers will become untenable.
- Quote:
"It's a real question mark as to whether or not there's enough funds left in agency bank accounts...there's certainly not enough money to do it over the long term."
— Jonathan Birx [01:15]
2. Back Pay for Federal Employees
- 2019 Law and Current Confusion:
- Traditionally, Congress would pass a law for back pay post-shutdown.
- The 2019 law aimed to guarantee back pay for all, even furloughed workers.
- Some in Congress surprised by current debate over this guarantee.
- Quote:
"It's a bit of a surprise, I think, to most members of Congress that there was any question about whether the 2019 law covered those employees who had been furloughed."
— Jonathan Birx [02:14]
3. Essential vs. Nonessential Workers
- Who Decides, and How?
- The President has broad authority and discretion.
- Definitions change with each administration.
- This shutdown has a narrower definition of "essential," but law enforcement is fully called in.
- Quote:
"It's always an issue of degree in terms of what president deems essential, what the President deems non essential."
— Jonathan Birx [03:17]
4. Shutdown as a Tool for Permanent Cuts
- President Trump’s Approach:
- Using the shutdown to implement permanent, often partisan, workforce cuts is highly unusual.
- Raises tenure and fairness concerns.
- Quote:
"It is unusual, to say the least, for a president to use a shutdown as an opportunity to make permanent changes in the federal workforce."
— Jonathan Birx [03:43]
5. Who’s Hit the Hardest
- Most Impacted Agencies/Services:
- Women, Infants & Children (WIC) Program: Funding expired; temporary fixes may not last.
- Programs outside appropriations also affected (e.g., Medicare telehealth, hospital-at-home care).
- Public may not notice unless directly affected, but impacts are widespread and mounting.
- Quote:
"These are real world impacts that you may not feel if you're not the direct beneficiary. But it's really having an impact on people today..."
— Jonathan Birx [05:07]
6. Why Americans Should Care
- Ripple Effects:
- Early mitigation may hide immediate pain, but effects will become widespread if the shutdown drags on.
- Impacts cross partisan lines and regional divides.
- Quote:
"The longer this goes, the more dire those impacts are going to be, and they're gonna be felt across the board, not just in communities or programs that are favored by one party or the other."
— Jonathan Birx [06:05]
7. Comparing Shutdowns Past and Present
- Historical Context:
- The previous longest was 34 days (2018-2019), and that was only partial.
- Current shutdown is broader, reminiscent of 1990s standoffs.
- Quote:
"We're soon going to be entering uncharted territory."
— Jonathan Birx [06:44]
8. Recurring Dysfunction and Congressional Gridlock
- Why This Happens Annually:
- About a third of government (plus the military) must be funded yearly.
- Bipartisanship around appropriations has deteriorated; deadlines are repeatedly missed.
- Dysfunction has deepened since early 2000s.
- Quote:
"That's a real functional democracy breakdown that has been years coming."
— Jonathan Birx [10:20]
9. Route Back to Bipartisanship
- Role of Voters:
- Congressional incentives currently come from vocal partisans.
- More nonpartisan, compromise-seeking voices from constituents could change behavior.
- Quote:
"If the majority of Americans got a little bit more vocal about...practical solutions...I think they'd be more responsive."
— Jonathan Birx [11:06]
10. The Key Sticking Point: Health Subsidies
-
Subsidies Background:
- Pandemic-enhanced ACA subsidies are set to expire.
- Democrats want them extended in this funding bill for more coverage and lower premiums.
- Republicans oppose further expansion, see it as a temporary pandemic measure.
- Quote:
"That's the fundamental clash...Democrats are insisting this be resolved...Republicans are saying, look, we open the government and we're happy to have a conversation."
— Jonathan Birx [12:37]
-
Partisan Strategy:
- Democrats see political value in expanding healthcare.
- Republicans stick to opposition of the ACA.
- Quote:
"Positioning themselves going into the midterm elections as advocates for more healthcare... probably pretty good politics from their standpoint."
— Jonathan Birx [13:05]
11. Shutdowns Are Self-Defeating
- No Savings, No Policy Payoff:
- Shutdowns do not actually save money or settle disputes effectively.
- Past shutdowns over the ACA didn't lead to meaningful Republican wins.
- Quote:
"They don't save money and...they're not an effective way of resolving policy disputes."
— Jonathan Birx [13:37]
12. How It Might End
- Prediction:
- Shutdown likely to end within weeks as mitigation options run out.
- Public engagement with members of Congress is crucial for a solution.
- Quote:
"Ultimately, members of Congress are responsive to their voters and people should be active and be engaged...Because ultimately this is our government."
— Jonathan Birx [14:20]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the stakes:
"What we're seeing is a hardening of positions rather than folks coming together and figuring a way out of this shutdown."
— Jonathan Birx [04:06] -
On persistent deadlock:
"Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of prospect...near term, for Congress coming together and doing this in a bipartisan basis."
— Jonathan Birx [10:32] -
On the power of citizens:
"How we engage with it, what we tell our representatives matters."
— Jonathan Birx [14:33]
Timestamps for Key Segments
| Timestamp | Topic | |-------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | [01:15] | 1.8 million workers affected | | [02:14] | Confusion over back pay law | | [03:17] | Who decides who's "essential" | | [04:06] | Effectiveness of shutdown as bargaining tool | | [05:07] | Hardest-hit agencies/programs | | [06:05] | Why all Americans should care | | [06:44] | Comparisons to previous shutdowns | | [10:20] | Dysfunction in appropriations process | | [11:06] | Need for more bipartisan constituent advocacy | | [12:37] | Health subsidies as the main point of contention | | [13:37] | Shutdowns as ineffective solutions | | [14:20] | Forecast for shutdown resolution and civic engagement |
Conclusion
Erica Mandy’s wide-ranging interview with Jonathan Birx provides a fast, fair, and informative deep dive into the realities and consequences of government shutdowns in America—from practical impacts to political stalemates, and the underlying dysfunction that makes headlines each year. The conversation urges citizens not only to understand the stakes but also to engage—reminding listeners that their voices hold the power to push Congress toward solutions.