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- [00:00]
A
The summer is sort of a wide open space. And I think wide open spaces can make us anxious because we have to design them.
- [00:08]
B
Today is Saturday, June 13th. Summer is supposed to feel fun, relaxed, maybe even magical, right? But for a lot of parents, it can also feel like a lot to figure out. How much structure do kids really need? Should we worry about the summer slide? What about screens, boredom camps, costs? Ultimately, how do we make summer meaningful without making it overwhelming or expensive? Today, I'm joined by Dr. Lisa D', Amore, a clinical psychologist with a long list of accomplishments. She's the author of three New York Times bestsellers, Untangled Under Pressure and the Emotional Lives of Teenagers. And she's the co host of the Ask Lisa podcast. She's also a regular contributor to CBS News. She works with unicef, and she's even consulted on Pixar's Inside out too. The list goes on. In this episode, she's sharing what kids actually need most this summer at every age, from toddlers to teenagers, what parents can worry about less. And how even simple but strategic activities and requests can go a long way in helping kids and teens thrive over the summer and beyond. Welcome to the Newsworthy special edition Saturday. When we sit down with a different expert or celebrity every Saturday to talk about something in the news. Don't forget to tune in every Monday through Friday for our regular episodes where we provide all the day's news in less than 15 minutes. I'm Erica Mandy. It's now time for today's special edition Saturday. Dr. Lisa Damore, thank you so much for joining us here on the Newsworthy.
- [01:35]
A
I am delighted to be with you.
- [01:37]
B
So before we dig into really the actionable ideas for summer, which I know you'll have many, I want to acknowledge all the pressure that's put on parents to get it right to have this magical summer. Why does summer feel like this task and how can parents navigate all that pressure, do you think?
- [01:56]
A
Well, you know, summer's sort of unscripted, right? School year's easy, right? Like the routines are handed to you. You have to work with them and you can have some confidence that your kids are being kept busy in ways that are probably productive, right. The summer is sort of a wide open space and I think wide open spaces can make us anxious because we have to design them. We have to figure out what is doable. And then of a lot of us have jobs and things like that that change, you know, what's possible that make summer actually pretty demanding in terms of figuring out what kids are supposed to be doing. With their time and who's supposed to be supervising them or getting them from place to place. Right. This is not easy.
- [02:33]
B
Yeah, it's up to us versus just handing it off to somebody else. So at the end of the day, as we're making these decisions about what summer should look like, what does matter most about summer for kids?
- [02:45]
A
I focus a lot of my work on tweens and teens. So the thing that always matters most is that they're safe. Right. And safety can actually be a little bit up for grabs in the summer, Especially with teenagers. You know, when we look at the data, there's more likelihood that something's gonna go wrong in terms of their safety in the summer either because they're out with a lot more unstructured and unsupervised time. They can just get bored and go online and find themselves in places that really aren't good for kids. So the most important thing always is that you know that your kid is safe. One of the ways that kids stay safe is that they are busy enough and that they are in the company of adults who can provide appropriate levels of supervision.
- [03:22]
B
Okay, so that's an interesting point because I feel like the last couple of years we've heard a lot about this. Create the 90s summer where you let your kids roam free and have independence. But then of course, you know, especially for parents that work, it's the pressure to put them in the best summer camps and make sure they have something to do. So, so is there a balance of structure and independence? And how do you find that?
- [03:44]
A
So one way to balance it is know your kid, right? There are some 13 and 14 year olds who could basically run corporations who operate like 40 year old librarians who do not need a whole lot of supervision and who can be counted on to like get through a chore list, do their summer reading. If that's your kid, that's your kid. There are other kids whose maturity is still coming online who are gonna need a lot of supervision, who probably need a lot of structure, who are probably not gonna handle it all that well if they're given huge SW unstructured time. There's no one right answer here. I also do think there's a lot to be said for letting kids rest. If you look at a high schooler's schedule during the school year, it is way fuller than anything we did as high school students. And there's value in leisure, there's value in having a chance to sort of reset or even to get bored. Right. To have sort of time that gets open and where creativity comes in or ideas are sort of able to germinate and blossom because they're not being crowded out by, you know, four classes and extra assignments and things like that. They can have mindless activities as a way just to rest and recover a bit from a hard school year. But I think we want to balance that, we want to balance that with them. Having places to be, things to do, people who are counting on them.
- [05:00]
B
Do you think there's a flip side of what matters least that maybe parents worry about, but actually isn't that important?
- [05:06]
A
I think parents feel a lot of pressure to enrich their children all the time. Right. And this is part of a broader cultural push towards what I would call sort of optimization. Right. We feel that we ourselves need to be always working towards improvement every waking minute. And I think that can kind of trickle down into what we feel our kids should have or what good parents in finger quotes provide to their children. When we look at what actually helps kids grow and helps kids thrive over time, it's things like getting a good night's sleep and having a good working relationship with the adults in their family, having friends and healthy friendships. I think if a parent is feeling a lot of pressure to help their kid grow, I think the parent's probably putting more pressure on themselves than they need to.
- [05:53]
B
And I think this goes along with that. But there's a lot of talk about the so called summer slide where there's worry that there's academic loss during the summer. What does the research actually say about that? Should parents be thinking about that at least some throughout the summer?
- [06:07]
A
Well, I think the research does support that. Right. And the way we think about it is school skills are skills and anything you don't practice for a little while gets rusty. Right. So summertime can be a great time for kids who have had academic trouble during the school year. Summer can be a time where you can shore some of that up or give them extra support. I think that it is probably net negative though to lean on kids through the summer to continue to build themselves as students. Unless you have a reason to worry about your kids academics. I think usually if you can just get them to do whatever the school sent home for the summer, you're probably
- [06:46]
B
in business and you know, you really focus on tweens and teens. But for parents of younger kids, would you tell them any advice about what the summer should look like for elementary school?
- [06:56]
A
Age play is where kids learn and grow, and this is true of any age. But younger kids are sometimes especially Good at it. When kids are given opportunities to be creative and to engage in play, not only are they having a good time, they are also growing and learning. They are developing problem solving capacities. We know that creative kids are more adaptive kids. And so I would make space for play and creativity, both for its own sake, because it's summer, and summer can be a wonderful time of year. And it does actually carry over with all of these benefits that will matter when school comes back into session.
- [07:32]
B
And I know you've talked about the acronym SUN for the summer. Can you walk us through that? Because it sounds like this one could apply to all ages too.
- [07:40]
A
Absolutely.
- [07:41]
B
Sleep.
- [07:42]
A
I could talk for 400 hours about the value of sleep. So let's just insert that here, unplug. Let's all get away from our technology. Summer can let us do that, especially when routines shift. We can sometimes try something new. And nature. Spending time in nature is good for human beings, even if it means like taking your own work outside. Do it. If you have access to natural beauty, you should absolutely make the most of it and so should your kids.
- [08:10]
B
And I know you even talked about the research. When it comes to nature, my follow up is what are the benefits and what actually counts as nature? Like, is going in my backyard with some trees good enough?
- [08:21]
A
100%, absolutely. So what we know is that when people spend time in nature, and in terms of what counts as nature, even when people have a plant on their own windowsill versus not having a plant on their own windowsill, it actually helps us to calm down and focus and reduces stress and can ultimately make us more productive if we let the natural world in. There are rhythms and patterns in nature that activate something very ancient in us that can help us to feel more grounded, more centered. If you're having a terrible day and you go for a walk, I think being out in the bigger world helps to put that whatever has gone wrong a little bit in perspective. And there's always benefit to keeping things in perspective.
- [09:12]
B
And I know I'm going backwards here, but going back to unplug, I feel like that causes parents some stress of, oh no, I let them watch too much tv. Or for older kids, they have their phone or iPad or. So what would you tell parents who I want to unplug, but it's hard or there's some other obstacle.
- [09:31]
A
When we think about kids and screens and we can also think about ourselves and screens, there really are two issues we want to focus on. First of all, what's on the screen. And second of all, how much Time is being spent looking at screens. There are things that are on screens that kids should not watch 10 seconds of they are so inappropriate or violent or graphically sexual or something like that. Even 10 seconds of it is really not okay. We really do want to do our best to ensure that they are looking at things that are at least benign and maybe even good, right? Like neutral or good. It would be a place to start. There also should be limits on how much time kids are on screens. And the way I like to think about this is doing too much of any one thing is not good for development. That healthy development in kids hinges on a variety of activities. It's not necessarily about the value judgment. So I think about this in terms of what do kids need for overall healthy development? Okay, so first they need sleep. High school students are supposed to be getting nine hours a night on average. Middle schoolers, 10 hours a night on average. Elementary school and younger 11 hours or more on average. Then they need to be physically active, right? They don't have to be exercising hard, but their bodies need to move. And great if kids can be helping out around the house or the community. And that's something that's often available to kids in the summer that is so good for them. It's important for them to spend time with their friends and with us in meaningful connection. But what's important is that we fill up that if we think about like a 24 hour pie, we fill it up with all sorts of things that kids need for overall healthy development. And then screen time works with what's left over.
- [11:20]
B
Still ahead, how to actually put a summer plan into practice without needing a perfect routine. Also, what can help kids feel more purpose, build more independence and make meaningful connections, all without needing a big trip or big budget. Plus, the most common mistake parents of teens tend to make that you can easily what to do now to set your younger ones up for success later. And the permission slip she'd give all kids this summer. That and more coming up. But first, a break for our sponsors. A lot of us have tried learning another language at some point, maybe in school or before a trip or because we wanted to feel connected to a certain culture. But knowing a few words is different from really feeling confident enough to have a conversation. And that's why Rosetta Stone Sapphire can be so useful. It gives you structured lessons, conversation practice, pronunciation tools, personalized feedback and vocabulary building all in one app. Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. And and Sapphire combines its proven immersion method with new technology. It is not just one size fits all. Most language apps teach the same generic topics, but not Sapphire. It helps you focus on what you actually want to talk about. Think sports, travel, family, work, whatever. If you're interested, that's how you stay committed and consistent and eventually confident. If you want to take your language skills to the next level, don't wait to try Rosetta Stone Sapphire the News early listeners can get 20% off their Rosetta Stone Sapphire subscription when they sign up today. You'll get unlimited access to all 25 Rosetta Stone languages plus all the new Sapphire learning tools. Visit rosettastone.comnewsworthy to redeem your 20% off. That's rosettastone.comnewsworthy and start learning a language for real. The Newsworthy is also brought to you by Oneskin. I've talked before about my skincare routine and how easy it is to use Oneskin. And it's not just hype, there's real science behind it. The founding team are longevity researchers who worked on answering a pretty simple if many visible signs of aging like wrinkles, fine lines and loss of elasticity are driven by so called zombie cells, what if you could actually reduce those cells to slow down the aging process instead of just covering it up? That research led them to their OS1 peptide which helps to slow skin aging directly at the source. And it's doing all that without a bunch of fuss. I don't need a ten step routine that takes me hours. I love using their face and eye moisturizers both morning and night. I'm obsessed with their lip treatment before bedtime. And especially for summer, their face SPF is a non negotiable in the mornings. Born from over a decade of longevity research, OneSkin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now and as you age. For a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using the code Newsworthy and at Oneskin co newsworthy, that's 15% off OneSkin Co with the code Newsworthy. And after your purchase they'll ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them we sent you. Okay, now back to my conversation with Dr. Lisa D'. Amore. So in order to set summer up in that way, in that kind of ideal way, how can parents actually go about putting that into place? What's the best way to figure it out and then also to get at least a little buy in or to get your kids to do this?
- [14:38]
A
So first of all, I will Say, I don't think it's the end of the world if for a couple of weeks. They are vegetables, right? I think it actually, you know, kids do get bored eventually, right? So I think if you say, you know what, I'm exhausted, you're exhausted, or, you know, your day camp hasn't started yet, or your job hasn't started yet, for these couple weeks, I'm not going to actually be on your case. I think kids appreciate that. I also think it takes a little bit of pressure off us as adults to sort of hit the ground running with some gorgeous, fully realized summer routine for enriching our children. I also think kids can help out more in the summer, right? Can help out around the house. I think often, especially with high school students, they are so busy that we can feel reluctant to ask their help at home. And I get it. Summer is a time where you can make some of that up. There's always yard work to do. There's other things that kids can be helpful with. But then to your question of buy in, like, how do you make this actually happen? I think for tweens and teens, it is really okay to say, I'm looking at several things you could be doing to structure your day. Here are the kinds of things I came up with. Do any of these appeal? If not, what do you got? Right? So giving them choice, right?
- [15:45]
B
You gotta do something, but you can have some say about what, right?
- [15:48]
A
What it is, exactly. And you can even give them rough parameters, like, I need you to be busy for X hours a day, X numbers of days a week. I think kids do really well if you say, hey, summer's here, we are counting on you to help a little bit more because you can. And our family's an organization and you're an important member of this organization and you gotta help us keep this thing running. When you do them, does not matter to me that you do them does. I have a 15 year old, she's in charge of watering our plants. And it has to happen every day. I prefer for it to happen in the evening, but when she does it in the evening, that's up to her. But it is her job to do this. So giving some latitude as opposed to saying, you need to do this right now, right? Even a teenager who's about to do it doesn't want to be told, you need to do this right now. And we talk a lot about the importance of purpose for young people. And purpose is important, but purpose is pretty big and pretty abstract and it can be hard to know how to like how you give a young person a sense of purpose. And one of my colleagues, Andrew Fellini, who's at ucla, is a developmental psychologist who does beautiful work. And what he found is actually what kids benefit from is feeling like they're counted on. Like, that somebody's depending on them to do something. And so even if kids roll their eyes when you say you're now in charge of making dinner on Wednesday nights, they may grumble a little bit. You can just ignore that it's good for them to be counted on.
- [17:10]
B
And this reminds me of an episode you did a year ago about what you called independence boot camp. And I do feel like this is something that could also apply to every age. You said the technique is doing for doing with and standing by to admire. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
- [17:24]
A
Sure. So when I was in my training, I was trained by this brilliant psychologist named Erna Furman, who worked with toddlers. And one of the things that she taught me was that there's a very good system for handing jobs over to kids, handing responsibilities over to kids. So let's think about, like, shoe tying with toddlers, right? You don't just say, okay, good luck. I tied your shoes all this time. So the system she talked about was, first you do four, then you do it with them, then you stand by and admire while they do it, and then you let them do it on their own. And this carries beautifully through all of development. And what I like about it, especially in the summer, is it takes time. And in the rush of the school year, we don't always have that kind of time. So maybe you do want your kid to start making dinner one night a week, or at least to learn how to cook in a rudimentary way. Okay, so you've been cooking for them. Then you may say, okay, we're gonna make a dinner together. What do you wanna make? And you work together on putting together the grocery list and getting the ingredients, and then you cook with them. And then you say, okay, next Wednesday you make. And I'll just be in the kitchen if you need me. I'm here to help. And you, you know, cheer them on, answer questions, and then after that, you can be like, all right, Wednesdays are yours. Let me know what you need from the grocery store. That kind of handoff works well all along the way. And also make sure that we're not asking more of kids than they're ready to do, but honors how much they are ready to do.
- [18:53]
B
And this is giving them skills, responsibility, and Some of that purpose that you talked about.
- [18:58]
A
Absolutely. We're counting on you. It's so much easier if somebody else makes dinner at least one night a week. You know, like you're in charge.
- [19:05]
B
Is there a sense that you figure out as a family, what do I need? And how can we make time for that this summer that might look different for each family.
- [19:13]
A
I hope so. I say this as the mother of two kids myself, right? The school year. I've always said the weeks are busy and the weekends are busier. It feels like you can hardly catch your breath. And I think one time that families find creates opportunities for novelty is if they can take a little time on a vacation, even if it's a really simple one. Getting away from home often changes our sort of traffic patterns as a family and how we interact with one another. And one thing I've noticed and heard about from a lot of different families is that sometimes when they go vacationing with their teenagers, it's not nearly as fun as they hope it's going to be. And I think it's usually because teenagers, by their nature, are designed for independence and autonomy, which is exactly the opposite of family vacations, right? Which is everybody's together and doing the same thing. But you can actually maximize that by saying something like okay to the teenager. And you could even do this with a tween. You're in charge of Tuesday. You set the agenda for what we're going to do Tuesday. Here's where we're going. Here are the kinds of things that are available in that area. Here's the budget you design that day. Letting them script some of it is another way that we can use the freedom that comes with summer, the time and space that comes with summer, to help kids try out different parts of themselves and to give them opportunities to exercise skills that they may not be exercising at other times of the year.
- [20:41]
B
To your point, this could be a drive somewhere. It could be camping. It doesn't have to be some expensive. It can be, but it doesn't have to be some big, expensive trip.
- [20:48]
A
I live in the suburbs of Cleveland. We have this incredible array of Cuyahoga county parks around us. So it could be, you know, we're going hiking in one of our parks. You choose the park, you choose the hike. We'll all take it. That means the world to kids and makes them much more amenable. My younger daughter is 15, and last year we were on a family vacation, and she really likes plants and animals, and she downloaded an app on her phone that lets you identify plants and animals. And so as we were out and about in this foreign city and then we were hiking around, that was what made her really, really happy, is that she was pursuing her own interests while we were on this group activity.
- [21:29]
B
And I'm sure as you give all of this advice, you're used to parents saying, sounds great, but what would you say is the most common one or two things that parents say? But what about and how do you respond to them?
- [21:41]
A
I think that we have to understand that teenagers are in a very tricky position, which is they need to actually become independent human beings while living at home with us. And so the way that teenagers thread this really remarkable needle is they become psychologically independent. So they live with us, but kind of like lodgers, we're the landlord and they're trying to, like, live their lives and then get ready to move on to whatever comes next. The thing that adults do best when they understand is that this is not personal. Right. The fact that a teenager has sort of decamped psychologically is not a rejection, is not a sign that they don't like you. As soon as you stop taking it personally, things get a lot easier. That doesn't mean you should give up, and that doesn't mean you should pull away. It is totally wonderful to let teenagers know how much we like them and their company and to invite them to join us. And so approaching them in a way that acknowledges that reality of like, hey, we want to, you know, go see this movie as a family. Here are the nights we've got available. Do you have plans? Can you work with one of these nights? Teenagers are appreciative when we recognize that they have their own lives and their own agendas.
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B
Okay, I have to ask for personal reasons because I have a young one. Is there anything we can do as parents of young ones that help them later when they're a teenager?
- [23:04]
A
Absolutely. So the way psychologists think about development is we think in sort of three big phases when we're talking about younger people. So there's zero to five, early childhood, which is basically kind of bananas, right? I mean, you're just busy all the time trying to manage family life. Then we talk about ages 6 to 10 being latency, which is all of that intense emotionality and behavioral stuff quiets down. And for the most part, 6 to 10 year olds are a blast. They can dress themselves often, keep themselves pretty clean, but they think we're funny and want to hang out with us. It's a really easy time often in parenting. And then latency ends around age 10 and adolescence comes back. And what worked in terms of parenting? Latency kids doesn't always work the same way with adolescents. If you have a child who's early childhood or latency, these are years where you can put a lot of money in the relational bank. Have fun with your kid. Kids are fun. Be silly with them. Do the things they want to do. Build up that good working relationship. Your good working relationship with your kid is a really powerful force as they move into adolescence. It's actually one of the most powerful forces for making sure your kid behaves the way you want them to as teenagers. Because if things are great and you get along well and you're really fun to be with, teenagers will think twice before doing something to mess that up.
- [24:35]
B
And I'm guessing that doesn't necessarily mean always say yes to them and do whatever they want.
- [24:39]
A
To be clear, definitely not. And in fact, when we look at all of the research on what helps kids thrive, it comes down to two things. Warmth and structure. Like those two things together are actually what help kids thrive over time. All warmth is actually not so good for kids. We have a job to do as adults to make sure they understand where the lines are and how to be a civil member of society. All structure means that you're missing out and they're missing out on the good time you could be having together. So the job in parenting is to try to balance those two. And I think one of the hardest parts in parenting is you can't get an A on both at the same time. Right. So, you know, warmth is, oh, my gosh, this movie is so good. Let's stay up late and finish it. And structure is, you know what? It is your bedtime. We'll finish it tomorrow. Right. So you're always choosing. I always say go for a B average on both. Right. That's a good week. And know that you don't want to veer too far in either direction. The best stuff in family life tends to be kind of down the middle, not one extreme or the other.
- [25:50]
B
What's one permission slip you'd give parents for the summer and one permission slip you'd give kids for the summer?
- [25:56]
A
I would want parents to take very, very good care of themselves. Get sleep, get leisure, move their bodies, eat well. I worry that adults feel like they've always gotta be trying to improve themselves, and they're doing so at their own expense. I would say caring for yourself is actually a critical part of how you care for your children. For kids, I would say more play less work.
- [26:29]
B
Thank you so much to our guest, Dr. Lisa D'.
- [26:31]
A
Amore.
- [26:31]
B
Definitely go check out her podcast called Ask Lisa to get even more more of her informed, practical perspectives on all your parenting questions. She also has three books and other resources on her website, drlisademore.com, we'll link to it in today's episode Notes. Thank you so much for listening. I hope we can continue to be part of your daily routine all summer long, keeping you informed on the day's news in less than 15 minutes each weekday and offering these little deep dives every Saturday. So we'll be back on Monday with the latest news. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend and wishing you a wonderful, restful summer.
- [27:07]
A
It.