B (2:32)

Absolutely. Things like a consular report of birth abroad, a certificate of citizenship, a naturalization certificate, lots of different kind of niche documents, but the ones that most members of the American public are likely to use are a valid US Passport. That means an unexpired passport in your current legal name, or a birth certificate. Something to note though, about the birth certificate is that under the Save America Act, a birth certificate alone is not considered proof of US Citizenship. It has to be paired with that photo id. There are also some stipulations about the types of birth certificates that are accepted. So it's a little bit more onerous than the birth certificates that a lot of the American public might have on hand. And then you also have to have that ID to kind of tie it to your current identity.

A (3:19)

Can you explain the argument from President Trump and the Republicans who say this law must be passed?

B (3:24)

The conversation around citizenship verification to vote has been around for decades. Current citizenship verification regime tends to rely on voters attesting under penalty of perjury that they are a US Citizen. The argument of the administration is that that's not enough, that we need to do more in order for voters to prove that they are U.S. citizens. The challenge though, is that a lot of folks don't have the types of documentary proof that you would need in order to be able to prove your citizenship. And then also when you actually look at voter records, less than 0.04% of registered voters are non citizens. And a lot of those folks actually said they weren't a citizen when they were registering and were registered accidentally.

A (4:06)

Yeah, based on evidence and documents. This isn't a political argument.

B (4:11)

This has been happening time and time again where either you look at the data that already exists that the current federal government maintains, or states have recently been conducting audits of their voter registration rolls, where essentially they take their entire voter list and do detailed citizenship reviews, often taking months, where they consult the types of documents that someone uses when they're registering to vote at the dmv. Utah, for example, recently performed a audit or review like this. And after this time intensive review of more than 2 million registered voters, they identified only one confirmed instance of noncitizen registration and zero instances of noncitizen voting. This has happened in states like Georgia and Ohio. And so we're getting a lot of evidence that noncitizen registration and voting, while it does happen, there are like very rare cases here and there that often result from misunderstanding or language barrier issues. But it's just not happening in ways that could impact an election outcome.

A (5:05)

Democrats and voter rights groups are saying that if this Save America act goes through and is passed, it could affect millions of American citizens who should be able to vote. Can you explain why it would be more difficult?

B (5:20)

Potentially so it would be more difficult to register to vote because a lot of voters simply don't have the types of documentation that they would need. So we recently did an analysis. We looked at voters who have a current unexpired passport and voters who have both a birth certificate and a photo id. They would need both of those under the Save America act. And we found that about 12% of registered voters do not have access to either of these forms of documentation. If you take that rate and apply it to the number of voting age citizens you have around the country, that's about 28.4 million Americans who are otherwise eligible to vote.

A (6:00)

This law would go into effect immediately, even though we've already seen some primaries happening in certain states. What are some of the barriers there that you think people need to know about?

B (6:10)

It can take a long time to get a copy of a birth certificate or a passport. It could take several months. It can cost hundreds of dollars. And so the idea that voters should right away be able to meet these requirements is just very unrealistic. Kansas adopted a documentary proof of citizenship requirement in the 2000s, and they did a review. They already had very rare rates of noncitizen registration. So that was less than 0.002% of registered voters on their voter rolls were non citizens. But after the law went into effect, it prevented roughly 31,000 eligible citizens. That's about 12% of all applicants from registering to vote. So the bottom line here is that documentary proof of citizenship laws tend to prevent far more eligible U.S. citizens from registering than non citizens from registering.

A (6:59)

And I've heard one of the biggest impacts could be people who change their name from things like marriage. So what extra steps would someone like that have to take?

B (7:08)

This has changed a little in different versions of the Save and Save America Act. Basically, one of the common forms of documentary proof is a birth certificate. Rates of US Passport possession are far lower. And so for a lot of married women, trans people, other people who change their names, their current identification or their current voter record isn't going to match the name that's on their birth certificate. The most recent version of the Save America act allows you to attest under penalty of perjury to a name discrepancy. So it does add an Extra step. But there are some ways that the current Save America act addresses that problem.

A (7:41)

And then also you're showing these documents. When you register to vote, you have to be in person. And I know even some Republicans have taken issue with that because it can impact rural areas to where going somewhere in person is especially difficult. Can you speak to that part?

B (7:57)

The Save America act does say that if you are registering to vote by mail, you have to provide documentary proof of citizenship in person. So in effect, that nullifies any benefit of being able to register by mail, because you still have to come in person anyways. And interestingly, the Save America act is silent on what happens to online voter registration. But we can infer that if you have to come in person for mail registration, you probably would have to come in person for online registration. I think that specific provision would likely be decided by courts after the fact.

A (8:31)

And is there also a provision now that bans mail in voting?

B (8:35)

There was a amendment proposed by a senator that limits the types of mail voting that could be accepted. It specifically would require that states only offer absentee voting with an excuse.

A (8:49)

And that would have a big impact on states like California, where mail in voting is the norm.

B (8:55)

There are several states, primarily out west, that have been doing mail voting for a very long time. Their voters are used to it. Their entire administrative systems are built around this heavy reliance on mail voting. It would be a huge transition for voters and for election officials who would have to pivot to recruiting far more poll workers than they used to identifying polling sites, basically changing their entire administrative operation. And so it would be a massive overhaul for voters and for election officials, officials around the country.

A (9:25)

I mean, is it even possible? What would election officials and really voters have to do in order to make this a reality for this election year?

B (9:34)

Yeah, it's funny when you ask, is this really possible in election administration? Because election administrators are go getters. They get the job done. In 2020, we had a global pandemic that forced us to transition a lot of our election operations from reliance heavily on in person to reliance almost entirely by mail. And so if this were to happen, I'm confident that they could pull it off. I think it's just what cost we are willing to take in order for that to happen. This bill has no funding to support any of its provisions. And so it would then be up to the states to pay for the massive, massive costs. And we know that when you are making large changes to the administration of elections, you risk the frequency of errors increasing. You risk voters not being able to cast a ballot because they weren't aware of changes. Maybe they're not familiar with their new voting site. Maybe the new barriers are just too difficult. If we were to make this kind of transition in a major election year, it risks both administrative chaos and confusion and potentially reduces turnout for voters.

A (10:34)

Coming up, why local election officials across the country are already facing record turnover and burnout, and why some say this bill could add even more pressure. Plus, the part of the SAVE act our guest is calling a good idea. It would shift the burden of verifying citizenship from voters to the government. Why some say it makes sense to do, while others raise questions about privacy, data and trust. That part of the conversation. Still ahead. But first, a quick break for our sponsors. We all have enough to think about, right? So why not have someone else help you figure out what's for dinner? Having Home Chef deliver fresh, pre portioned meals is the easiest way to feel more organized, well fed and less stressed. In fact, there are lots of options with Home Chef, from easy oven ready meals to hearty, satisfying recipes that still feel effortless and even quick microwave lunches if you want. And no matter what, you're getting delicious meals. For example, we got the one pot pork ragu farfalle with kale and Asiago and it was so good even my sometimes picky 4 year old ate some kale with his dish and my husband and I really enjoyed it. And it's not just us. Other people really love Home Chef. It is rated number one by users of other meal kits for quality, convenience, value, taste and recipe ease. And for a limited time, Home Chef is offering my listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box plus free dessert for life. Go to homechef.com newsworthy that's homechef.com newsworthy for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. Homechef.com newsworthy. You must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. The newsworthy is also brought to you by Blueland. I really want to use products in my home that are sustainable, clean and actually work so that I can do right by my family and the planet at the same time. That's why I love Blueland cleaning products. I've now used their full clean sweet kit and genuinely love everything in it. It's such a simple switch that makes my cleaning routine feel more intentional. Without adding any extra work from their cleaning sprays to their toilet tablets, everything feels thoughtfully designed and easy to use. The sprays work really well across different areas of my home and I'VE especially appreciated how convenient the dishwasher tablets are. No measuring, no mess, just drop one in and go. Blueland is trusted in over 1 million homes, including mine now and their products are independently tested to perform alongside major brands. Blueland is a certified B Corp and Leaping Bunny Cruelty Free Certified. Their formulas are EPA Safe for Choice certified and many products have also earned Cradle to Cradle's Gold Material Health Certificate. Blueland has a special offer for listeners right now. You can get 15% off your first order by going to blueland.comnewsworthy. you won't want to miss this. Blueland.comnewsworthy for 15% off. That's blueland.comnewsworthy to get 15% off. Okay, now back to my conversation with Wren Ory. Can you share a bit more about the potential impact on election officials, the election workforce?

B (13:29)

So the people who run elections and election offices at the state and local level all over the country have been under so much stress over the last six to seven years. We had that pandemic in 2020 that required huge changes to election operations. We then have the rise of skepticism facing election administration. So now these individuals are being kind of targeted with threats and harassment and public scrutiny. This has all caused the rates of turnover among chief local election officials to rise to unprecedented levels. We found that turnover among those responsible for running elections has reached its highest level ever on Record in 2024. What we're asking them to do with very little resources is just becoming untenable. People are tired, people are burning out. And if we continue to add more and more to their plate, if we continue to distrust their operations, this turnover is just going to keep rising. And that does create risks downstream for election operations not being run as well as they can. That can both harm voters directly and lead to broader misunderstandings, narratives of fraud that can pick on one thing and then spiral out of control.

A (14:35)

There was one more requirement within this bill that I wanted to ask you about, and that is the requirement for states to run voter rolls through the federal government. What stands out to you?

B (14:45)

There are a few big things to keep in mind there. One is that I actually do think that some sort of system where election officials consult federal data to help determine citizenship status is a really good idea. That's because it puts the responsibility for citizenship verification on on the government and not on voters. Rather than putting the onus on voters to say, hey, you have to find these documents that are really hard to find and bring them into an election office to prove your citizenship. Instead, we can just check the data that we already have. And then if we have a few voters here and there whose citizenship status is unclear, that might be a scenario where it's more appropriate to ask for a proof of citizenship piece of documentation. So that is, in an ideal world, it's really helpful for election offices to have access to more information about voter eligibility. One concern is the privacy of Social Security and driver's license information. That is a huge concern of election officials. The Department of Homeland Security that administers this system is relatively reliable, but it's more of a question of is the state comfortable entrusting the federal government to have that information. In the past, there's been a lot of resistance, actually, in the Republican Party to having any kind of centralized database of US Citizens. So it's sort of interesting now how that, how that debate is flipping.

A (16:04)

Is there any other piece of the Save America act that we haven't talked about that you think is important?

B (16:10)

One really important consideration about the Save America act is that it creates criminal penalties for election officials who register someone to vote who hasn't provided documentary proof of citizenship, even if they are a US Citizen. And for me, in this moment, that it just exacerbates the types of pressures that local election officials around the country are facing, facing and instills this kind of culture of fear where they're worried that doing their job is going to subject them to significant personal criminal liability.

A (16:41)

I want to be clear for people that this has not passed yet. It is not law yet. What are you watching for or expecting next?

B (16:49)

I am a policy person and not a political person, but my reading of the tea leaves is that it doesn't really have a path to passage in the Senate. I would watch the conversations happening around the filibuster, but at present, there's no indication that the Senate will be able to pass this bill and get it to the president's desk.

A (17:09)

Thank you so much to our guest today, Ren Ory. You can learn more about the Bipartisan Policy Center@bipartisanpolicy.org and join us again during the week to stay updated on the latest about the Save America act and all the other news of the day. Every Monday through Friday, we provide a wide variety of stories in less than 15 minutes. So we'll be back on Monday with the latest news. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.