← The Night Owl: True Ghost Stories
The Night Owl: True Ghost Stories
The Villisca Axe Murder House - Part II (Campfire)
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In Part I of this Campfire Series, you heard from a range of voices connected to the site of one of the most notorious unsolved crimes in American history — the 1912 Villisca Axe Murders. You heard from the current tour guide of the Villisca Axe Murder House, who walks its haunted halls regularly. You also heard from a representative with Iowa’s tourism office, who described the same strange unease that so many others have reported after visiting. And you were introduced to the gripping account of a man who unknowingly moved his family into the house directly across the street from the Villisca Axe Murder House — only to be hired as the property manager of the very home he once thought was just part of local legend. Over the course of five months, his skepticism gave way to fear as a series of unsettling events unfolded — ultimately leading him and his family to flee Villisca entirely, relocating to Florida with no clear plans of returning. Now, in Part II, we’re taking a short det...
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Listener discretion is advised. This campfire series contains detailed accounts of real life violence, including the brutal murders of children, references to animal harm, and personal stories involving emotionally difficult subject matter, including inappropriate behavior. While some guests are sharing their experiences publicly, others will remain anonymous. In those cases, names and identifying details have been changed to protect their privacy. Our intent is not to accuse, speculate, or sensationalize, but to respectfully honor these voices and explore the emotional and paranormal impact these events had on those involved. The Night Owl podcast Campfire Episode 15 the Villisca Axe Murder House Part 2 welcome to the Night Owl Podcast. I'm your host, Stephen Ballou, and this is a place for all you restless spirits out there to tune in and hear true tales of the paranormal. I hunt these stories down, capture them from the mouths of those who've experienced them, and share them with you right here. We're currently looking for more personal ghost stories or haunted locations, so if you or someone you know has one, please submit it to us. For consideration, go to thenight owlpodcast.com click on the submit yout Story page and let us hear your ghost story. In Part one of this campfire series, we heard from a range of voices connected to the site of one of the most notorious unsolved crimes in American history, the 1912 Villisca Axe Murders. We spoke with the current tour guide of the Villisca Axe Murder House, who walks its haunted halls regularly. We heard from a representative from Iowa's tourism office who described the same strange unease that so many others have reported after visiting. And we began the gripping account of a man who unknowingly moved his family into the house directly across the street, only to be hired as the property manager of the very home he once thought was just part of local legend. Over the course of five months, his skepticism gave way to fear as a series of unsettling events unfolded, ultimately leading him and his family to flee Villisca entirely, relocating to Florida with no clear plans of returning. Now, in Part two, we take a short detour from that story to bring you two new voices whose experiences with the house span years and miles a seasoned paranormal investigator with a personal history at Villisca and an author who spent years preserving the legacy of the case and the home in his writing. Together, these two new stories offer deeper context and raise new questions about what might truly linger inside the Villisca X Murder House. But don't worry. Later in Part three, we'll reconnect with the caretaker you met in Part one and hear from his wife for the very first time bringing this campfire series to an unforgettable conclusion. Stay tuned. Just a couple of reminder announcements. Our Spirit Social event is back and this year it's happening on the most perfect night of all, Halloween. Join us on October 31, 2025 for our annual Once a year Paranormal Gathering featuring the full Night Owl team, psychic mediums from the show, guest speakers and trusted collaborators from our extended paranormal network. Expect a full night of immersive panels, live experiments, haunted storytelling, spiritual history, and behind the scenes tales from the investigations you've heard. On the podcast you'll find a massive spirit market with tarot, astrology, oddities and more, flash tattoos, a photo booth, food trucks, a live taping of the Night Owl podcast and team Q and A, and an after hours mixer for all Access guests. We're thrilled to be returning to a venue close to our hearts, the Ballroom at the former Spider House, the the location featured in our very first episode, now beautifully restored and reopened. Tickets are currently on sale now and VIP passes have already sold out. Our all access passes are limited and going fast, so if you've been waiting, don't grab yours now@thenight owlpodcast.com or visit our link on our Instagram bio. We cannot wait to gather with you all, our fellow restless spirits out there for a night of connection, wonder and things that go bump in the night. Also, if you're a spooky vendor, artist or reader with wares to share, we're currently accepting vendor applications for the Spirit Social. We're seeking Tarot and astrology readers, psychics, energy practitioners, oddities and haunted collectibles, artists, crafters, jewelers, vintage sellers and more. If your work at All Vibes with the weird, witchy or paranormal, we'd love to hear from you. Apply now@thenightoutpodcast.com or visit the direct link to apply our Instagram bio the Villisa Axe Murder House is one of those places that lingers not just because of the horrific crime that took place there in 1912, but because of the stories that continue to unfold within its walls to this day. In our last episode, we began uncovering some of those stories we heard from a current tour guide who walks the home daily, a tourism rep who left the house feeling shaken, and a man who unknowingly moved his family into the home across the street, only to end up managing the property and becoming deeply entangled in something far stranger than he ever anticipated. That story isn't over. There's more to share from him and eventually from his Wife. But as I began working on this next chapter, I put feelers out to friends in the paranormal field. And what I learned caught me by surprise. Two of my friends in the paranormal community, you might know them, Aaron Sagers and Greg Lawson, the paranormal detective got back to me and said, we have a friend who wrote a book on Villisca. That friend was Richard Estepp, a seasoned paranormal investigator and author of over 40 books, including a Nightmare in Villisca, which documents his own time spent researching and investigating the axe murder house firsthand. So in this episode, we take a short step sideways to hear from someone who's walked through the house with a different lens as an investigator, a historian, and someone seeking answers of his own. Let's hear what Richard had to say.
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So I'm Richard Estep. I'm the author of 40 something books in various fields, including paranormal nonfiction. I've been a paranormal investigator for 30 years on both sides of the Atlantic and appear regularly on the TV shows Haunted Hospitals, Paranormal 911, Paranormal Night Shift, Haunted Case Files. I've guested on Destination, Fear and A Haunting. So I've done quite a bit of television work, and I had wanted to look into the Villisca axe murder house haunting for quite some time and finally ended up writing a project based around it called A Nightmare in Villisco, which involved going to the house, spending extended periods of time there, different years, different times of year, and just trying to see what was going on within that ordinary looking, but very much not an ordinary house. So I traveled with different teams of paranormal investigators with different skill sets, different approaches, different attitudes, mindsets, tools and techniques. And it's not a large house. And one of the things that I think is the most striking is when you step across the threshold into the, into the Moore house, the Moore residence, as I'm going to call it, you are almost struck with that feeling of stepping back in time. It's as if the 21st century gives way to the early 20th or late 19th centuries. You know, in rural Iowa, you have no electricity going on. You can't flip on a light switch. You have no running water. You have to go to the barn, to the restroom, which I actually appreciate it. That's the convenience that you lose, adds to the authenticity of the experience of being inside that house, which is also furnished, appropriate to the period. And I'd be fascinated to know how somebody would react to that house if they had no idea of its history, of the terrible events which had taken place within its walls. There are, you know, you are Constantly being watched by the eyes of the moor and stillingers as their pictures are framed and hanging on the walls in many of the rooms. So there is a very real kind of feeling of being watched in the house. Now, I'm not saying that necessarily, you always are, but the first day I arrived, you know, the caretaker of the house sort of messaged me and had said, hey, I don't know how far out you are, but the house is kind of stirred up today. Something just bit the kid on one of the tours. So hearing that a child has been bitten means you are probably going to be in for an interesting, interesting time of it. And to hear him speak, to hear other individuals who've had experiences there, it's almost as if the Moore house has.
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Moods of its own.
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Some days it can be almost playful, I hesitate to say childish or childlike. Other days it can be somber, brooding, if not angry and aggressive. You never quite know what you're going to get. That seems to change with the time of the year. It seems to change, perhaps with the seasons, even the weather. Some good friends of mine who accompanied me on one of my investigations had been there previously. And during an incredibly violent thunderstorm, as the Midwest is prone to getting, one day, they recorded quite clearly the sound of two children having a conversation in that house. Part of my investigation there, I recorded the sound of a child's voice giggling downstairs in the living room. It fascinates me what really is going on, paranormally speaking, inside that house. The house is haunted. For me, there is no debate about that. But that certainly is room for discussion as to who or what haunts the house. And there are many different perspectives. I think the worst possible explanation, the least desirable outcome, is that the Moore family, the Stillinger girls, are behind the haunting. And I truly hope that isn't the case. If anybody has suffered way too much already, it's those poor people and children. I hope they are long since gone, moved on to whatever it is that comes next after this life. There are some that think that the murderer, and there are, of course, different schools of thought on the identity of the killer, may be responsible for haunting the house. I know that certainly there are accounts of the Reverend Irving Kelly being seen in the barn, which is not the original barn, but it's located right about where the Bond would have been. Reverend Kelly is a pretty solid suspect for the Villisca axe murders, one of the more common suspects, along with the men from the train and. And some other characters. I've never understood the logic, though, of why the killer who did not die in that house. And we have no evidence to suggest that they ever returned to the house after that one single night. Why they would be behind a haunting, it makes no real logical sense to me. And there are still others that claim that some kind of dark malevolent force has taken up residence in the Morehouse I spoken to as part of the interview process. In my book, some individuals who claim to have encountered something non human, serpent like, monstrous, for lack of a better term, particularly in the cellar. And while I can't claim to have experienced anything like that myself, they certainly believed it. At least one of them said he would never return to that house again for a million dollars. So, you know, there is no easy answer as to who or what. And it may be a multitude of different factors. I think one thing to consider is that Iowa is a state with many popular haunted locations. You have Melvin Manor, Farrar Elementary School, Edinburgh Manor, the Squirrel Cage jail, just to name four. And people have a habit of visiting multiple locations. And I've often suspected it may be possible to cross contaminate by going from one location to another. Almost as if you're, you're picking up and transmitting some kind of paranormal infection as you go. There is so much debate and so much, you look at the primary sources, even the local historians, you know, have some don't all necessarily see eye to eye on exactly what happened. I mean, the bacon, depending on who you believe, was used either as a master masturbatory aid or had nothing whatsoever to do with the haunting. You know, so it's just, it's tough to say what really, what really did happen. One of the biggest points of contention is was the killer inside the house? When the family returned from the church that night, was he hiding in the attic or was he hiding in the barn, watching them through the knothole in the wood because there was a kind of body, body shaped, but there was a depression in the dirt that indicated somebody had been laying in there looking through this knothole, you know, perhaps watching the family come and go. And then did he make entrance, you know, after the family was asleep? It's a very noisy house. Anyone that visits that house, it's almost impossible to creep around. I mean, I tried it and I, I'm a fairly big guy. I weigh 250 pounds and I'm 6 foot 3. I have the smallest, lightest members of my team who are half my size. Try creeping around too. And it's noisy, it creaks, sound travels, you know, so there is this whole question of how would you even make entry quietly into a house like that, and I don't really have a good answer. If, on the other hand, the killer was waiting inside the attic, you know, he was running the risk that Mr. Moore might check the house. You know, if Josiah had checked the house before lights out, he would have been forced to fight Josiah Moore then. And the killer obviously wanted to deal with Mr. Moore, the biggest threat in the house, first kill the adults and then the children, purely from a practical standpoint. So, you know, being cornered in that attic when there is. Where there is not enough room to swing an ax, it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. However, then there's the problem of trying to apply rationality to someone who committed such an obviously psychopathic, homicidal, irrational act. And I think part of the mistake we make when we try to analyze crimes such as this is that we apply common sense and logic, the kind of reasoning that, you know, we all have going about our everyday life, to someone whose mindset allows them to butcher eight innocent people in their beds. So that might be the single biggest mistake. We try and analyze something which defies analysis because the acts were committed by someone who was deeply unhinged and deranged.
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Hearing from Richard added another powerful layer to this series. His insights didn't just touch on the paranormal claims surrounding the Villisca Axe Murder House. He also brought a deep and well researched perspective on the crime itself. The theories surrounding who may have committed it and why. This case continues to fascinate and disturb so many over a century later. In just this short conversation, it was clear how much knowledge and thought Richard brings to this story. If you found his perspective as compelling as I did, I highly encourage you to check out his book A Nightmare. In Investigating the Haunted Axe Murder House, I've included a direct link to it in the show notes. However, one of the theories Richard mentions briefly, and you may recall it from part one, is what's often called the man on the Train theory. It suggests that a man named Paul Mueller, a suspected serial killer and fugitive, may have committed not only the Villisca murders, but a string of eerily similar axe killings across the country. This theory was brought to greater public attention by Bill James and Rachel McCarthy James in their book the man from the Train, where they present compelling but speculative evidence tying Mueller to multiple unsolved murders. It's a chilling idea, and while unproven, it's one of the several possibilities that continues to swirl around this unsolved case. And is the theory we'll hear more about now as we shift to a familiar voice. Colin Browen, a seasoned paranormal investigator and creator of the Paranormal files on YouTube, may be a name some of you recognize. He appeared in a previous campfire episode called Haunted Heartland, sharing an intimate and emotional account of a haunting that deeply affected both him and his family. So when I put feelers out for this Villisca series, I was pleasantly surprised to learn that Colin had a long standing connection to the Villisca Axe murder house. He's investigated the property multiple times over the years, drawn back by something he couldn't quite explain. Let's hear what kept pulling Colin back in and what the house revealed to him.
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My name is Colin Browen. I have been investigating the paranormal for over 10 years now and creating weekly videos on my YouTube channel, the Paranormal Files. Quick little background. I grew up in a haunted house, technically, when I was in high school. We talked about that on an episode of the show, funny enough. And I've had these experiences all my life. But growing up in the Midwest, in South Dakota, specifically, one of the states that was very close to me, and I'm talking, my house was 15 minutes or so from the border is Iowa. Of course, knowing that one of the most infamous haunted houses in the United States of America is in Iowa as well, at one point, once I had started my YouTube channel and I had begun investigating more frequently, I decided that I'd head on down to Villisca. Growing up in South Dakota, the Villisca story was talked about, but I didn't even really know much about the story until I started diving into it to prepare for my very first trip to the home. Now, one thing that you have to keep in mind is that in recent years, the paranormal has, you know, exploded. There has been a mass influx of individuals who have come into this community who have found a home here, who love ghost hunting and all things spooky. And with that has come more people, larger crowds that visit these locations, and their schedules are booked up. They're almost more commercialized in a way. But the very first time that I went to Villisca, this was almost a decade ago. At this point, it was more of a house than a haunted house attraction. It was just this spooky little home, you know, tucked away in this small community of Villisca that nobody really wanted to go to or talk about. There's still a stigma in Villisca, according to one of the tour guides that I got to know pretty well. And a lot of people don't really enjoy talking about the crimes. I understand why. I mean, it's absolutely horrific stuff. The way that the bodies were found, the bizarre rituals that the killer allegedly did. There's just so much about it that doesn't really make sense. But it does make sense if you, you know, kind of think about the fact that it's unsolved to this day. I don't know exactly how many years later what that would be 120 or so years later. So, yeah, the very first time that I actually decided I was going to visit Villisca, ironically, it was your perfect paranormal evening. It was dark and stormy. And when I say that the place wasn't commercialized yet, it just didn't have that feeling. It was more a spooky house than a haunted house, if that makes sense. It wasn't a place that people frequently were inhabiting. So it had a very different energy. And the moment you step into that house, you can tell that things are changing rapidly. Now, for me, I consider myself to be somewhat intuitive and empathic, and that house feels like hell on earth. It is one of the places in the United States, But I can confidently say I believe is haunted. And I don't know. I've had some experiences there that have led me to believe that it's haunted by something a little bit darker. Now, it's a small property. Something that you don't really get from watching videos about the place is that it's actually really tiny. You almost feel like you're in a miniature home or something because it was built in that style. You know, it's so old that back then it might have seemed like a lot of property and a lot of house, but when you imagine a family of six living there and then, you know, having friends over and if they had a full house, that place would have been jam packed with people from wall to wall. And the energy of the children, the energy of the parents, how frantic, how loving, how amazing all that must have been in that kind of tiny location. But obviously, all of that changed in June of 1912. When you think of energy, I mean, you couldn't have had a more potent, almost explosion of negativity than what happened on the night of the murders. Obviously, it's an incredibly gruesome scene. It's an absolutely horrific crime against not only adults, but children. And the fact that it's still unsolved is haunting. That's the best way to describe it. It's very, very disturbing. When you sit there in the darkness of the house and you're listening for noises and you kind of tune in to where you are and you think, you know, at one point in this structure's history, there was a horrifically disfigured child's body sprawled out right here where. Where I'm sitting. And their blood was, you know, soaking into the walls. It's just horrific. Horrible stuff. That stainless is still there in the home. Some people obviously, you know, don't believe in the paranormal, but if you do, you could not find a place that would have a better, really, recipe for a haunting. So, first night that I was there, this was years ago. The house was very quiet, I would say, but also deeply oppressive. And I found that to be something that happens in a lot of these locations. Not all of them, but sometimes you have these nights where the home is just silent. You know, you're inside of a location like the Villisca Axe Murder House. I mean, we all watched the Ghost Adventures episode that they filmed there years ago when the show was starting. I read books about the place. It's always listed as one of the most haunted locations in America. But when you're actually there soaking it all in, it just feels really bad. It's unlike any other place, really. To me, it's more Sally House than Lizzie Borden. It's just got this deeply entrenched negativity, and it evokes a sense of fear. I was very, very on edge that evening, first time I was there. Like I said, we might have heard a few little noises, felt some things. I know that we use some devices, but we really didn't capture anything too conclusive. It was just this dark, malignant cloud that it's really hard to describe. And I've. You know, I've tried to describe it eloquently on YouTube to people who've seen my videos many, many times over the years. But whenever I try to describe this feeling, I always add in there a sentence or two to let people know that, you know, I can sit here all day and try to relate to you how I'm feeling. But unless you've actually sat and felt this exact feeling yourself, you'll never truly know what I'm talking about. And Puliska is just one of those places that has that feeling. So I knew that I loved the location, and I had an incredible night. The first time there was a thunderstorm above. It was just very spooky, but nothing really clear came through for me. It was more that feeling that I was left with. Years later, in 2020, I returned to the Villisca Axe Murder House. This time with a different set of people. It was my mom and my dad this time. And we even brought my parents dog, Bentley to see if he would react to the energy in the house. Interestingly, he really had no reaction at all. He seemed to enjoy the property. But I know that both my parents felt the same kind of just horrific feeling inside of the home. And it's easy for people to sit there and say that, oh, it's a cop out, you know, you had a feeling. Well, I have a feeling here too. But if you felt that feeling, you know exactly what people are talking about. And I'm not kidding you when I say that I've been to hundreds of locations now across the planet, investigating five, six different places almost every single month for the last seven or eight years. And there are only a handful of places that genuinely scare me. The Villisca ax murder house is one of those places. So on this second investigation, I wanted to push the limit a little bit. I wanted to scare myself. I wanted to see if crisis. I don't know, maybe the spirits are shy when other investigators investigate the home in groups.
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Collins early investigations into the paranormal began close to home. And Villisca, Iowa wasn't far. He'd launched his YouTube channel, the Paranormal Files and was finding his footing as a young investigator. But something about the Villisca axe murder house stood out. It wasn't just the history. It was a feeling he'd gotten. He described a strange stillness during the first visit. Quiet, uneasy. And yet the place somehow terrified him. He knew he'd be back on his second visit. He wanted to push the boundaries to see what might happen if he stayed the night alone inside this house. If something was truly there, would isolation bring it out? When we return from this short break, we'll hear what happened during Colin's second and third visits to the Villisca X murder house and how those nights still live with him today. Stay tuned. This episode is sponsored by Lumi Gummies. Most edibles I've tried in the past just don't work for me. They either made me feel way too out of it or just off. So I was genuinely surprised when I tried Lumi Gummies and found that they made me feel just right. I want to thank Lumi Gummies for always making me feel just right. Consistent, mellow and super delicious. Lume Gummies are specifically designed to make you feel good, not stoned. Whether you're looking for an end of day de stressor, a midday mood boost or help getting the best sleep ever, Lumi Gummies has a strain that's right for you. For me, it was the Durban Skittles, a sativa strain designed to give you energy, focus and a boost in mood. I took one before diving into a long afternoon of sound editing for the show. Normally that kind of task wears me down, but with that gummy, I locked in, stayed focused and knocked out a ton of work without any distractions. Plus, it tasted amazing. Fruity, smooth and no weird aftertaste. What I love about Lumia is how intentional their strains are. Whether it's Sativa for creative flow, Indica to help you fully unwind and sleep, or hybrid to balance your day, Lume gives you the benefits of cannabis without that uncomfortable, too high feeling. It's honestly become my go to a great way to take the edge off, feel more centered, or just elevate a moment when I need it the most. Lumi Gummies are available nationwide. Go to lumigummies.com that's L U M I gummies.com and use Code Night Owl for 30% off your order. Again, that's L U M I gums.com Code Night Owl lumigummies.com Code Night Owl this episode is also sponsored by AG1. As longtime listeners of the Night Owl podcast know, I've been a huge fan of AG1 for a while. It's been a staple in my daily routine, something simple I do every morning to support my health and give my body the nutrients it needs to function at its best. And just when I thought AG1 couldn't get any better, it did. AG1 Next Gen is now available in tropical berry and citrus flavors. I love that I can still stick to my routine my body thrives on, but now I get to switch it up and add some variety with these new flavors. It's been a great way to keep things fresh without missing a beat in my wellness routine. Give these new AG1 flavors a shot. Visit drinkag1.com night owl to subscribe for less than $3 a day. If you use my link, you'll also get a free welcome kit. I also want to take a moment to thank AG1 not just for being the longest running sponsor of the show, but for creating a product that's genuinely made a difference in how I care for my health. AG1 Next Gen includes five clinically studied probiotics, plus additional vitamins and minerals to support whole body health. The probiotics alone have had a noticeable impact on my gut health, increasing healthy bacteria tenfold and helping me feel better from the inside out. It's one of the easiest things you can do to support your wellness. Just one scoop once a day and you're giving your body a strong nutritional foundation to carry you through the rest of your day. So if you've been thinking about trying it, now's the perfect time. Our daily health drink just got more flavorful. Just head to my link drinkag1.com nightowl. You'll also get a free welcome kit worth $76 when you subscribe, including five AG1 travel packs, a shaker, canister and scoop. That's drinkag1.com night owl.
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So on this second investigation, I can't remember if I was told this before, but I did hear some rather creepy stories about things that had happened in the Villisca axe murder house. There was an investigator who claimed that he was taken over by something and stabbed himself inside of the home, which is pretty extreme. I mean, honestly, out of all the stories I've heard, that might be the most extreme thing that a spirit or energy has allegedly made someone do. So you always have to be cautious when you're in a house like that or a location like that. When my parents left that night and left me alone with Bentley, our dog, I was very, very freaked out. I mean, that house, even though it's known as this, you know, insanely haunted property, it's on every list. It's, you know, the paranormal bucket list. Villisca is one of those locations that people say you have to visit this place. You know, this is one of those spots you need to get to. So you build this up in your mind like it's going to be some sort of paranormal battlefield. There are going to be pots banging in the kitchen. You're going to see a woman in a dress floating up the stairs. The kids are going to crank their jack in the box and it's going to pop out of the cube in the corner of the room. Maybe you'll hear footsteps, some giggling. I don't know. You're expecting a lot of activity. You're expecting something almost out of the movies. But from my experience, it's just been very, very quiet. I don't want to say silent, because the energy and the spirits are definitely there. And when they've made themselves known, they have really made themselves known to us. But as kind of a funny aside, the second time that I was there in the house, I actually went live on my TikTok. I was doing a live investigation of the home and I was talking to people. I was interacting with the chat on TikTok Live. People were telling me, you know, go up to the attic, do this and that, Ask the spirits this question. And I was following their instructions. But about 20 or 30 minutes in when we had a few thousand people watching out of nowhere, I didn't realize that my phone had low battery. It died. It just shut down in my hand. And I thought to myself, oh, shit, these people think that, you know, the, the spirits of the Voice Acts Murder House got me. And what do you know? Almost immediately afterwards, a police cruiser showed up at the front of the house. People from Tick Tock had actually called the Villisca Police department. I don't know exactly what they told them, but, you know, something along the lines of, you know, there's this guy in the Villisa Ax murder house. He might be in danger, something might have gotten to him. We don't know what happened. So the police showed up. I saw the lights flashing in the window and I, I went downstairs to talk to them and they were banging on the door. I'm like, oh, hey, I'm really sorry guys. You know, my phone died. I was doing a TikTok live. And both the cops started laughing. It was just a kind of funny, funny thing because, you know, they told me, yeah, we received a bunch of calls all of a sudden about a guy being in trouble in the Axe Murder house. And I'm like, no, no, I'm good. My phone just died. Like, nothing to see here, essentially. And they left. And to be honest, the rest of that evening too was relatively quiet. Now I did hear what I thought was a door slamming or some sort of large bang in the downstairs of the house when I was in the attic. If you've ever seen photos of the attic in the house, if you've ever been in the attic, you know that that place feels absolutely horrible. It is a even darker corner of an already dark property and it's got those classic Amityville horror windows. I don't know if there's a correlation between those windows and the cursed level of a property. It seems like every haunted house has those damn windows. But when you're up in the attic, you're staring right out of them. You can see the street in front of you and it just feels bad. I spent some time in there and at the end of the night I actually went to bed. I slept with Bentley, my parents dog. He stayed with me and I got up and had a pleasant morning. In the morning, it didn't really seem like, you know, the evil Axe Murder house. It was More like the house that I just spent the night in was kind of nothing, almost felt to a degree, empty. But the third time that I visited Villisca, which was my last time, was completely different. Now, the first two times that I had investigated the property, I had never heard anything about the man on the train theory. Now, a lot of people know the Villisca story. It was eight people, two adults, six children, axed to death in their beds in the home. There were some weird things around the house. Mirrors covered, possibly a slab of bacon somewhere that might have been involved. There are a lot of murky details, but essentially the story is that of. I don't know what that would be. Octuple homicide. And when people hear the story and they study the story, the commonly held sentiment is that this was kind of a lone wolf crime carried out by some sort of depraved lone wolf individual. They believe this guy showed up, you know, entered the house somehow, killed everybody, maybe he was hiding in the barn, the attic, and then that was it. He got away with the murder. But according to the book, the man on the Train, which is an incredible read if you're at all interested in the story, there is a theory that the Villisca axe murders were only a singular event in a blood soaked trail of crimes that basically spread out across the entire United States and followed the train tracks. Now, there's a suspect that's named in that book. His name is Paul Mueller. And the authors of that book do an incredible job of connecting Feliska to a number of other infamous homicides that were essentially done, you know, using an axe. We're talking very, very similar circumstances. Things like mirrors covered, you know, the victims posed in these bizarre ways, certain rituals that the killer did times of the year, ways that the houses were entered, ways that the houses were left, doors that were locked or specifically unlocked, windows, you know, positioned a certain way. The authors identified a series of bizarre and interesting characteristics, and when you read them and actually listed out in the book, it describes almost to a perfect T, the Villiska axe murders. And this is just a basic set of circumstances that you could, you know, use as a sort of a lens and look through to examine any of these family acts, murders and crimes of the sort. But Villisca tracks perfectly. And if there was a serial killer, there were a number of these murders, these family annihilations essentially, that could be linked to the same guy, but of the core, maybe three or four Villiska's. One of the sprees that fits the Mold the best. So in preparation for my third trip to the house, I read the book. Weirdly enough, there was a homicide like Villisca that occurred in Houston, Texas, where I live now. And when I put it in my Google Maps, I mean, I was absolutely shocked. My wife and I had just moved into our first house like a week before. And the house where this axe murder or these axe murders, I should say, happened in Houston was like a seven minute drive from my house. I mean, it was just crazy to find that out. And the authors of this book claim that this one in Houston was one of the crimes that most resembled Villisca and fit that pattern. So it was a really strange connection. But I think that going in with that knowledge and applying that knowledge to our investigation, it really changed things because on our third trip to the Villisca axe murder house, it was just crazy. We had so much activity that evening. And the entire time we were openly discussing the man on the train, we were talking about this other suspect. We were bringing up the characteristics of this murder spree. And I don't know if the spirits or energies enjoyed us discussing this theory. Enjoyed as in, I'm trying to say they were happy that we were getting closer to the truth. Something had changed in the environment there, and the energies were letting us know they were using our yes and no device, answering questions almost spot on about the killer and characteristics of the killer. We had REM pods and EMF devices which previously had not triggered for us inside of the home. Going ballistic when we're bringing up these names and circumstances of the crime and asking these legitimate questions. And upstairs in the attic area of the home, at one point, it was incredibly strange. There was this smell that began to waft into the room. Now, this is just one of those things that sounds too bizarre to be true. To be frank, have no idea what the hell it is. Even to this day, it is unexplainable to the maximum. We were sitting in the attic of the home, I believe at the time we were doing an Estes Method session. As we're asking these questions about the main suspect of the man in the train murders, this guy Paul. There is this absolutely ungodly scent that fills the room and it smells so bad and it's so thick that we all start reacting to it at the same time. And I'm not talking something like, you know, a bodily odor, like a gas you might emit or someone's breath. You know, this was a very, very distinct and very, very strong smell. It was almost like if somebody had been out in the sun, slaving away, doing some sort of manual labor for days on end, and had refused to take a shower or bathe, it was like this putrid body odor. It was sweaty, it was salty, it was musty, and it almost burned your nose when you sniffed it in. I mean, it's. It's crazy. So we're all reacting to this, and all. All of a sudden, my dad, who was actually under the Estes at the time, he starts to react to it, and we're all freaking out. I'm like, you know, where did this come from? What is this? Nobody can place the smell or track where it's. Where it's coming from, or even what it is or what it resembles. And then almost immediately, it's gone and the air is clean. There's no even lingering trace of ascent. And everybody reacts to it. We look at each other kind of frantically in the pale light of our camera, saying, what? What the hell was that? That was, like, incredibly freaky. And we're asking questions again. We get back into the Estes. This time we're hearing some noises outside the threshold of the attic. So in the upstairs where the murders took place, we're hearing almost footsteps, knocks. I can't remember exactly what we were hearing, but it was something. And a few minutes later, when we're once again asking questions about this, Paul figure, the smell returns. And it just feels like you're hit in the face with a sledgehammer. And it's the exact same smell, the exact same thickness, and it's just lingering. It's just staying there. There's no draft in the room. There's nothing that could be causing this. And it was coming and going so distinctly. And like I said, I've done hundreds of investigations at this point. I've smelled a few smells. You know, you have the classic woman's perfume that, you know, you can smell in the brothel. And then, of course, you have the classic, you know, negative rotten eggs, sulfuric smell. That's not what this was. But those are the things that people describe smelling frequently. This was, like I said, like a very human odor, but also a very horrible odor. And once again, just as soon as we all started describing went away. And I'm not talking like, it slowly faded away over the course of a few minutes. This was like, we're smelling it. We're smelling it. Oh, my God, it's gone. It's like snap of your fingers. It just disappears. And after that night, I was just. I mean, I was Shocked. You know, when you investigate a location multiple times, some locations, it's great because you can capture great activity, you know, with every visit. Sallie House is a place that's like that for me because, you know, that place legitimately scares the hell out of me. There's something that does not like me in the house. But to get back to Villiska, that's what was so shocking to me about this third trip there. All of a sudden, this house that I knew to be relatively quiet and not calm, it feels horrible, but you know, activity wise, pretty light. All of a sudden. This time it had just come alive. I mean, even to the point where we were hearing what we thought were footsteps downstairs in the home. When we were talking about this man on the train theory, my parents and I, along with my brother in law, we were standing at the top of the stairs in the home, so scared that I think my dad might have pushed my mom in the front of the group and was holding on to her shirt, clinging on, standing behind her, terrified. But that's how real it was. It was, it was genuinely frightening. You had all the, all the classic, almost, if you want to call it that, paranormal activity that evening. We had, you know, what sounded like footsteps. I believe we heard some sort of a voice or a whistle, I can't remember exactly, but we had something like that. We had this incredibly strong smell. We had extremely intelligent responses on our ITC devices, including at one point the word Miller, which we took to be Mueller because I just said that word out loud. It's the name of the guy who, according to this theory, committed the Villiska axe murders. Just so many different responses that were so spot on, all alluding to the fact that maybe this story isn't what people believe it to be, the lone wolf, you know, one and done killer. Maybe this was the work of someone who affected multiple locations. I know for a fact, actually this is another tangent that's just bizarre. On that same trip we investigated Malvern Manor, which is a location in Iowa as well. It would have been a almost logical stopover town where if someone was riding the train to Villisca, they could have spent the night. There's a chance that the killer might have slept over at, at that home before heading over to Villisco. And we actually captured evidence at the Malvern Manor that linked up to our investigation of the Melissa Axe murder house. Words that we received at both locations that I didn't even connect in the moment until I was back at home, you know, a month, two months later, Editing the video. The interconnectedness of those two places is actually pretty crazy. But it just. That third investigation of the place completely changed my mind. Not in a bad way, but it made the place almost a little bit freakier for me because the first time I was, sorry to be crass, but I was absolutely shitting my pants because it's such a famous, notorious location. And, yeah, it felt bad. It was scary. Second time, I thought, you know, I'd conquered my fears. I spent the night, I slept there. It was, it was its own thing. It was. It's its own experience. Different than the first time. But the third time, when we introduced this new theory and started speaking about these new characters who I. I don't think are spoken of very frequently inside of the building, it just came alive. So much more physical stuff, so much more energy that we were picking up on all of our devices. These loud noises, this phantom smell. And I really believe, personally that the man on the train is who killed those people. There's no way that you're ever going to be able to prove it. I mean, there's obviously no way that they're going to solve the Villisca ax murders with so much time that's passed. But after digging into all this stuff for so many years and spending a significant amount of time at the location, that's where I sit on it. It was, it was just shocking to see the activity and the energy change in the location when we're just investigating it a little bit differently. And one more thing that I'll add that was really crazy to see was the luminol. So I don't know if whoever's listening to this luminol is essentially, you know, a substance that's used on crime scene investigations by certain techs working with law enforcement. It's essentially a substance that you spray on an environment that illuminates areas that could potentially show blood splatter. It's reacting. I'm really kind of minimizing this explanation, but it's reacting to the iron in a substance. A lot of people and techs use this to detect traces of blood, to see blood splatters in places where it wouldn't be visible to the eyes. Because even, you know, in some cases, if you paint over blood, if you try to cover the blood with another substance, if years pass, this luminol can, can detect these blood traces through the paint, even if it's been covered over. The tour guide had previously told me that a few years ago, they. They used aluminol in the home, and that they had been able to detect some of those old blood stains. Obviously. You know, it almost makes you want to laugh. Oh, there's no way that you could pick up blood stains from a 120 year old murder. There's no way. So we just decided to give it a shot, killed the lights and got spraying. Now, at first, I didn't think we were seeing anything. You know, you're spraying on the wall, it's pitch black, you're letting your eyes adjust, hoping you see that little blue twinkle, but nothing. But that's when I had the idea to take the camera that we had with it and put it on a slow exposure mode, kind of open up the frame and let more light in. And I pointed it at the wall where we were spraying the luminol and took the photo. When it came back, when the photo finished recording, when the exposure was over, you could see the blood. You could see it in the wall. And then we sprayed the walls in the kids room and there was blood everywhere.
- [53:31]
B
It was.
- [53:32]
C
It was horrific actually, to see it was a lot brighter in some places and you could still see it with your eyes very vividly. It was everywhere and it was even soaked into the floorboards. So to be sitting there in a location like the Villisca ax murder house and to be actually seeing with your own eyes and through the camera the blood stains from that, that was. That was just a. A wild experience. I mean, this is one of the most infamous crimes really to ever happen in America. And the house, which is, you know, reportedly haunted, is still covered with and soaked with the blood of the victims. Now, luminol has the potential to pick up different substances. That is a fact. So whenever I say these things, I don't know, I want to make it clear if it was 100% blood, but according to the test, that's more than likely what it was. And you can clearly see in the photographs this wasn't something that would be caused by the other substances that can cause a luminol glow to appear. We were clearly picking up splatter marks right near where the axis had struck the walls and the exact areas where, I mean, if you're sitting there and thinking about as horrible as it is, the crime occurring, you can picture this. Yeah, this is, this is where the blood would have landed and we were kind of just, you know, performing it there in person, you know, acting like we were swinging the ax and showing where the blood would have splattered and where it would have ended up. It was almost exactly where, you know, the luminal had picked up these traces of this iron splatter. Just to see that with your own eyes, for me, made the story all the more real and all the more horrific. At the end of the day, I always tell people the Villiska Axe Murder House, as I said earlier, is a place that genuinely scares me. Now, I'm not afraid of ghosts and I feel horrible for the victims, but there's something there that is deeply unsettled. And it's just this unsettling, unwavering negativity. And I'm always hesitant to use the word evil, but it really feels like evil feels mean spirited. It doesn't feel like your typical haunted house. Now, some people have claimed that the suspect may have been taken over by some sort of spirit. It's possible something had possessed someone and caused them to carry out this crime. There's also stories of, you know, indigenous spirits and all other sorts of reasons that, that I've heard from different people over the years as to why Villisca feels evil and not haunted. It feels possessed, almost like there's something there that's just. It's just not good. But I still don't really know what that is. I just know that I've been there and I've felt it, and it's very real.
- [57:07]
B
The Villiska act murders, the death of the Moore family and the still injured sisters, it continues to fascinate us today. I think it strikes at the heart of one of our most primal fears. Our bedroom in our own home is where we're supposed to be safe. We shut the world out at night, we turn out the light, we lock our front doors and back doors and secure our windows, and we're supposed to sleep safely. And so the idea that somebody could not only violate our innermost sanctum, but also end your life, it's just a horrific and terrifying one. And that speaks, I think, as to why, you know, all these years later, we are still so fascinated with this case. And I would encourage anybody that delves further into, into the murders, whether you're looking at the haunting or whether you're looking at, you know, this from a true crime perspective. The single most important thing to remember is that eight innocent lives were lost on that one night. And we should keep the Moore family and the still injured sisters foremost in our thoughts. We should keep their story alive, their memory alive. We should remember that these were living, breathing, feeling human beings that are at rest in a cemetery not too far from the house. And I encourage anybody that goes to Villisca to go to the grave of the Morgue family and the Stillinger girls and pay your respects. The last time I was there, there were many tokens of affection, many toys for the children, some coins for Josiah and Sarah Moore. And I encourage people to just write, remember the humans at the heart of all this. The ghost stories are fascinating and they are intriguing and they are chilling. And I certainly am intrigued by them myself. It's why I wanted to write about them. But as with every ghost story, we have to bear in mind that a ghost is an echo of a real human life. And that's the most important thing about this case. So I spent several days and nights in the house researching the house. I got to know it fairly well, but I didn't live there. I didn't live next door. I didn't live across the street. And I think that there is a whole new level of potential connection when you are that close to a haunted location. It's the old saying, I think Nietzsche is the philosopher, that said, if you stare too closely into the abyss, the abyss stares back at you. And. And that may never have been truer than in cases of dark hauntings, where there is that potential that if you show too keen an interest, something or someone might take a keen interest in you in return. And my 30 year career researching and writing about hauntings, I've encountered numerous cases where people got a little bit more than they bargained for by getting too close for too long to something like this.
- [60:04]
A
What we heard tonight were two very different perspectives. One from a researcher and author, and the other from an investigator who spent years walking into the unknown. But together, they helped us glimpse something essential about the Villisca X murder house. Through Richard's work, we saw how the brutal act of violence that took place in 1912 doesn't just live in the history books. It lingers not just in memory, but in presence. And through Collins, detailed accounts collected across multiple visits and even a night spent entirely alone inside the house, we were given something rare. A visceral understanding of what it truly feels like to step into that space, to sit with it and to let it sit with you. I knew these voices needed to be heard now because of what's coming next. In the final part of this series, we return to the caretaker you met in part one. He and his family spent five months living in the home directly across from the Villisca axe murder house. And in that short time, something changed. What began as a new job became something far more disturbing. A slow unraveling that led them to flee Villisca altogether. This caretaker believed something darker had been at play, that some unseen force had drawn them there with a purpose. And as I spoke to him on that first call, my instincts told me he was holding something back. I wanted to go deeper. I wanted to hear more, and if possible, I really wanted to hear from his wife. After weeks of back and forth and several canceled conversations that I later learned were driven by fear, they agreed to speak with me. What they shared was unsettling, and it echoed exactly what both Richard and Colin had expressed in different ways here. That something dark still resides in Vilisca, and when you're close enough to it, when you live across from it, work inside of it. There's no telling what it might do. The conclusion to this story to this campfire series is coming soon, and it's something you don't want to miss. Thanks for listening to this campfire episode of the Night Owl Podcast. Be sure to join us as this paranormal series concludes on September 29th. I want to extend a special thank you to Richard and Colin for sharing their experiences and knowledge on this episode. I'll include links to both Richard and Colin's work in the show. Notes don't Forget to visit thenightoutpodcast.com for info and tickets to our big annual event, the Spirit social happening on Halloween 2025. And if you're a vendor of the spooky, witchy or weird variety, you can apply to be a vendor at this event on our website or a direct link in our Instagram bio. Be sure to subscribe to our newsletter on our website thenight owlpodcast.com follow us on Instagram or Facebook the Night Owl Podcast and consider becoming a patron and supporting our show on patreon.com thenight owlpodcast to stay up to date with our show's news and events. Stay restless out there. I'd like to thank my investigative team, Alexis, Franklin and Jeffrey for going on these crazy adventures with me, Nicholas Fair for his talented musical contributions to this show my dad Sam for his incredible historical research Mikey for his assistance editing Bo Tristan and Devin for their help with our Night Owl events and tours Sandra for keeping us all on schedule and on budget and last but not least, David Dalton of Driftworks Sound for mastering every single episode on the tight turnarounds I give him. Please support their works by visiting our website thenight owlpodcast.com and clicking on the about tab. There you can find links to all their individual works and websites. This podcast was mastered by David Dalton of Driftworks Sound. Do you have a song that could use a professional touch to get it across the finish line? Do you wish you could remove the sound of a loud air conditioner or distracting mouth noises from your podcast recording? Whatever your issue, David can repair and enhance your audio and help you achieve rich, full professional sound at industry standard loudness levels. Quit struggling with audio engineering and get back to creating. To discuss your options, reach out to davidriftworksound.com that'S-R-I f t worksound.com and set your creative self free.