A (2:31)

Yeah.

B (2:31)

You know that thing that covers your face but leaves your eyes?

A (2:34)

Of course. That delicious dessert.

B (2:36)

That delicious dessert all over my head right now. Yes.

A (2:39)

I even the other day was thinking, I was like, maybe I'll get essentially a ski mask. Like I was like, maybe I'll get, like, a full face covering as well. I'm not opposed to it.

B (2:50)

Why not go all out? I can't remember if I've told you about these before, Sophia, but I have these bright pink snow pants. They're actually children's snow pants because you know how short I am. And these snow pants I sometimes just even wear in the house because I'm like, these are so cozy.

A (3:07)

I get it.

B (3:08)

Yeah. And one of the sayings from where I grew up in Minnesota is, there's no bad weather. There's just inappropriate clothes.

A (3:15)

I. I completely agree.

B (3:16)

All you need are the right clothes, and you can feel cozy in any situation. Right.

A (3:20)

In the summer, I feel like there is bad weather because I'm like, sometimes it gets so hot that no matter what you're wearing, it's too hot. But in the winter, I really do feel like I'm like, if you can layer and have some good outerwear, like, it's not really that bad. But I don't feel that all people are aligned with that point of view that I hold.

B (3:40)

Yeah. And I totally understand if you're one of those people, especially if you're in the Arctic Circle.

A (3:45)

Yes. We need to get those. The body shaped sleeping bags. Have you seen those? They're like, yes, I need one of those.

B (3:53)

Yes, I'm in favor of those. Or yeah, again, if everybody just wants to wear a snowsuit or snow pants all the time, it's kind of like a version of that.

A (4:01)

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay, Kristin, I am really excited for our topic today, what we're chatting about. It's one of my favorite things to talk about because tonight we're going to be doing another round of the Nightly Book Club.

B (4:32)

And it goes so well with our talk about being cozy and bundled up.

A (4:35)

Oh, my gosh. Yes.

B (4:36)

What's better than being bundled up and just cuddling up with a good book?

A (4:40)

Literally nothing.

B (4:42)

I'm gonna start with this nonfiction book by Emily Nussbaum called Cue the the Invention of Reality tv.

A (4:50)

Oh, my gosh.

B (4:52)

This is a book that charts the rise of reality TV from PBS's American Family in the 1970s to the Real World in the 1990s, to the primetime takeover of reality TV in the 2000s, starting with Survivor. And it's just such an enjoyable read because it isn't just charting the history like, this year, this happened this year, this happened this year. This executive, you know, brokered this deal with this network. It also talks about what happened to the people who were on these Shows, especially in the early days when people who were on these shows didn't understand what kind of fame and criticism they would eventually face. Do you know the show American Family? Sophia?

A (5:33)

I am familiar with it because I have looked into like the beginnings of reality tv and I know that it's known to be like the first reality TV show, but you should tell me more about it.

B (5:44)

Well, this family, they were an upper middle class family from San Francisco, teenagers, two parents. And what was especially notable about this show was that one of the kids was out and proudly gay. He was not apologetic about it, which at the time on tv that just wasn't done. And he just was a human and just living his life, doing his thing, not living with embarrassment or shame on camera. And something else notable is that the parents end up getting divorced over the course of the TV show. And so these two major things that happened also reflected a lot of what was happening in America at the time. And none of the members of the family really understood what was happening when they were being filmed for this. They essentially were like, this is like an educational show just to give a snippet of our lives.

A (6:36)

Right. But they're like, it's basically like a documentary or something, like.

B (6:39)

Yes, exactly, because it's for pbs. They didn't realize there'd be leering, that there'd be editing, that there would be a certain presentation of them by the PR team, and that they would be the victims of a lot of vitriol and ridicule and so on. And I just think it's fascinating to look at that era of reality TV where the family just didn't really know what they were getting into. And then bring it all the way to the present where we have people on shows like Love island or the Real Housewives who not only know that they are a product, but try to manufacture themselves rather than just rely on the camera and editing team to manufacture them without their consent. So it's almost more collaborative nowadays. Yeah, and it's fascinating to see that. And it's also fascinating to see the outcome when people think that they're playing a role in how they're manufactured and still don't get a good edit and what are their lives like? And it made me kind of feel sorry for some of the people in reality tv actually.

A (7:39)

Yeah, well, I think people definitely get like really in over their heads and think oftentimes like, well, diff. It's different, as you were saying, like from early stuff where it's not. They don't go in with These notions. But I think people oftentimes think that they can outsmart the viewer or the editor or the producer or whatever. And, like, for the most part, you can't really do that. But, yeah, it's very interesting. Like, the way that reality TV kind of was, like, at the beginning, you'd think, like, oh, it's just like a documentary or something. And even, like, in the very, I think, early, early seasons of Housewives, there's not really much going on. It almost is like you're like, this is just kind of like a peek into people's lives. It's not really like. It's just so different, but it's really interesting. I would definitely read that.

B (8:19)

I think anybody who is fascinated with reality tv, or even just the entertainment industry in general, would like this book again. It's called Cue the The Invention of Reality TV by Emily Nussbaum.

A (8:32)

I'll definitely check that out. Did you have any specific reason to look into it other than an interest in reality tv?

B (8:38)

Well, I'm very interested in reality tv, but also one of the other shows that I host, Emily Nussbaum was on it, and she was talking about her book a little bit, and I'm like, I need to read this book. This sounds so good. And for anybody who doesn't catch the reference, Cue the Sun is referring to the Truman show, which is a movie that's over 20 years old at this point, starring Jim Carrey as somebody who was born on camera and lived his whole life on a reality show and didn't know that he was on a reality show. And there's a certain point in the movie where the director yells, cue the sun. Because it's going to be better for the scene that they're doing. And so the whole idea of reality TV not being reality at all, how manufactured it is, that's kind of what the title is tipping its hat to. Tell me about one of the books you've been reading.

A (9:32)

I just finished the book Demon Copperhead.

B (9:36)

Oh, my gosh. Okay. That is the book that's kind of a retelling of David Copperfield. Is that right?

A (9:43)

Yeah, that's what they say. I haven't read David Copperfield, which is a Charles Dickens novel. Maybe I will read it now, who knows? But, yeah, it's basically a book about boy who's born in Appalachia. I think I honestly got confused by the end where the was taking place. It takes place in Virginia and Kentucky. I think he was born in Virginia, but I'm like, I don't know for sure. And much like David Copperfield, I think he is, like, an orphan. He starts out living with his mom, and then he has to, like, go into foster care and stuff like that. And it's an interesting book because I was, like, simultaneously couldn't put it down. And also was like. At some points, I was like, this is making me really sad because it's kind of. For a while, you feel like, oh, my God. It's just like one bad thing after another happening to this poor boy who is, like, just a kid and is very sweet and is trying his best to, like, literally just, like, survive in the world. But in the end, it's not. I wasn't, like, completely devastated in the end, which was positive, because throughout the book, I was like, I need things to turn around for this. Like, I really, really need things to turn around for this kid. But it was really good. I really enjoyed it.

B (10:56)

Good. It's a very long book. I have to say that that's one of the things that has gotten in the way of me starting it, because so many people who I trust, including you, Sophia, I know, have read this book, and I'm just like. But it's so big.

A (11:10)

I know.

B (11:10)

It's so big. How long did it take you to get through it?

A (11:13)

I did a thing that I do a lot with books, which is that I read the first maybe, like, 50 pages or something, and I took a long time to do that, and then I kind of, like, locked in and read the majority of the book in, like, a week or two, I think.

B (11:25)

Oh, okay. All right.

A (11:27)

Yeah. I read it while I was home. I also like to read while I'm on the StairMaster, which helps the time go by faster.

B (11:33)

Okay, I have to ask. Do you get dizzy when you're reading on the StairMaster?

A (11:36)

No, not at all. Really? No, no, no.

B (11:39)

I feel like. Because I walk up and down, like, I'm bouncing up and down when I'm on the stair. Maybe you don't bounce as much as I do.

A (11:45)

I'm not bouncing so much. Okay. All right. It makes the time go by so much faster than listening to music or listening to a podcast or even watching something. Reading when I'm doing that makes the time literally fly by to me. But the book was good. It is long. And I also had something happen where I got it on. I had rented it onto my E reader, and then it expired, but I had it in airplane mode so that the book wouldn't disappear. So when I was feeling tired of the book, I was like, I literally can't get another book because if I. If I get another book, I'll have to turn this off airplane mode, and the one I'm currently reading will disappear. So there are points where I was like, I would love to take just a short break and read something else. And I was like, I can't. I have to. I have to stick it out.

B (12:33)

That is such a good tip.

A (12:34)

Okay.

B (12:35)

Airplane.

A (12:35)

That is a little hack for everyone.

B (12:37)

Okay.

A (12:38)

Yeah.

B (12:38)

All right. So again, that's Demon Copperhead.

A (12:42)

Yes. Demon Gopperhead.

B (12:44)

And you loved it, even though it was a little torturous for some of it or for a lot of it, obviously.

A (12:50)

Like, the woman who wrote it had done so much research, like, clearly. And I felt like. Even though it was quite, like, sad at points, it didn't feel like too much or that it was like, whatever. I don't know. It didn't feel like she was just making. Like. She didn't feel like she was making the boy suffer for nothing, I suppose, or something like that.

B (13:09)

It didn't seem like torture for torture's sake.

A (13:11)

Yes, exactly. Exactly.

B (13:13)

Because that can be exhausting for a lot of us. For me, it can be. I'm like, what is the point of this?

A (13:17)

I know, I know. It really. It really can feel exhausting. But I enjoyed it. It was. Yeah. It's a book that I've heard about so many times, and then I finally just read it, and I was like, okay, I get why people liked this.

B (13:27)

Nice.

A (13:28)

Yeah.

B (13:35)

Do you want to hear about another book I've been reading where I was cheering for the protagonist?

A (13:39)

I would love to.

B (13:41)

It's a very different book. And warning to listeners, it might sound like it's a little scary, but I didn't find it scary at all because it's kind of like, more comedy. The book is called Too Old for this by Samantha Downing. It's about an old lady named Lottie Jones who murders people that get on her nerves.

A (13:59)

Oh, my gosh.

B (14:02)

But this is not. I didn't think it was scary. There were points I was literally, like, laughing out loud.

A (14:08)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (14:09)

Not smiling wryly to myself, but literally laughing out loud.

A (14:12)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (14:12)

And I'm like, yeah, get rid of that documentary filmmaker. So irritating. Yeah, get rid of that Snoopy person who is knocking on your door all the time. And then I would cheer.

A (14:23)

Was it like a comedy thriller, or was it mostly just like a comedy book?

B (14:27)

It was a thriller. Also, like, there are twists and turns. There are people who maybe you don't realize are linked together or at least I didn't realize were linked together until the very end. And yes, I feel like our protagonist is always justified in murdering whoever she wants to. Of course, it's just written that way where it's like, yeah, go and do that, Lottie. But it is interesting to see, like, oh, just a second. Maybe there are drawbacks to murdering that person that now you have to deal with this other person that you didn't realize was linked to that person. And so even though it sounds like it's really brutal, it's also just. I found it really, really good fun. I don't think it's nightmare fare. So listeners, don't worry. This isn't the kind of book where you're gonna be like, oh, no, I can't turn out the lights tonight. I think you'll just be like, this is good fun.

A (15:15)

That sounds really fun to me. I went through real ones will know that I went through a major thriller phase like this past year. So I'm like, that sounds so fun to me. Cause I got. I was like, I get the hype. It's so fun to read a book with twists and turns.

B (15:29)

I've been so into it. I don't know how I got into the thriller kick. A few months ago, it might have even been you. You may have started it with me, but yeah, it a few months now where that's what I've been consuming like crazy.

A (15:38)

Yeah. I mean, they're so, like, propulsive and hard to put down that it's also a good way to, like, get yourself back into reading if you've been out of the habit of doing it for a while. I read a thriller called Havoc last year that also is about. The protagonist is also an old woman. And I wouldn't say it's funny, I guess. I don't know. I'm like, looking back on it, I wonder if there. There probably were some funny parts. But it was the first thriller that I've ever read with an elderly person who, yeah, is also even doing some pretty dubious and bad things. And it was a really, really weird book, but I enjoyed it. Do you in too old for this? Do you feel like there's someone that you could see playing the protagonist in a movie?

B (16:20)

Oh, my gosh. See, everybody always wants to cast Helen Mirren in everything. And I get it. Helen Mirren is fantastic. I love her, but we just don't have that many actresses over 80 anymore.

A (16:36)

Yeah.

B (16:37)

And so that's the tough part because I'm like, oh, you know, if Octavia Spencer were 20 years older.

A (16:45)

Okay.

B (16:45)

I think she could be fantastic. And also, I just like Octavia Spencer playing, like, kooky roles. Like, I don't know if you ever.

A (16:52)

Saw Ma in Ma. Yeah, yeah.

B (16:55)

And that made me think, like, oh, I want to see way more of Octavia Spencer doing whack.

A (16:59)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, in. Maybe we can age it down a bit. So we'll say, like in 10 years she can do it. And it'll be she's a little bit younger than the. Than. Than the woman in the book is or something like that.

B (17:10)

Put an old lady wig on her, give her like a walk, or dress her like Sophia from the Golden Girls. Then maybe she could pull it off.

A (17:17)

But you can figure it out.

B (17:19)

Yeah. Speaking of people who would play different roles, to go back to Damon Copperhead, who would play that role, the lead role is a redhead, right?

A (17:27)

Yeah. I don't know because I don't really know, like, child actors like that. I was trying to think, when I asked you that question, I'm trying to think of even who is like a redhead actor that I can think of that I could play the adult version. I don't know. And this is also. Do you feel like when you read a book, you see the person? Cause I don't see his face when I read the book, if that makes sense.

B (17:49)

I don't necessarily see the person, but sometimes when a movie is then later made, I'm like, that's not what they look like.

A (17:56)

I know, I know, I know.

B (17:59)

So like Katniss Aberdeen from the Hunger Games. I was like, she does. No, she doesn't look like this at all. It says in the book that she's like dark and this and that. So I just pictured her very differently. I'm like, I don't think she's supposed to be blonde, blue eyed, But I.

A (18:18)

Guess that's what they wanted.

B (18:19)

I guess that's what they wanted.

A (18:20)

Yeah. Yeah.

B (18:21)

Okay, so I have an idea. So this is an actor I've really loved over the past year. He was in a show called Adolescence. His name is Owen Cooper. He's not redheaded. But this TV show, Adolescence, he's in pretty much every scene on the show. And this is a four part TV series. I think it's four parts where it's always done in a single take.

A (18:43)

Okay.

B (18:43)

So the camera does everything from go through an ambulance, through a school, down a hallway, into a yard, into a house. And it's always done in a single take. And the. The filmmaker said they didn't use any special effects to do it. It was really just single take every episode. And this kid is such a good actor because he essentially has to do a play every episode. And he plays such a complex character where he kind of has to code switch at certain times, like how does he act around his parents versus the school counselor and so on. And I just want this kid to be in everything from now on. So maybe Owen Cooper from adolescence, I'll take it.

A (19:26)

It sounds like if he has experience playing a child who maybe is not having the easiest go at things, then he might be a fit for the role. So I'll take it. I think, Owen Cooper, we can cast you.

B (19:38)

Yeah, you will have to wear a wig, Owen Cooper, because your hair's not.

A (19:41)

Red, but we'll dye it.

B (19:43)

Yeah.

A (19:45)

Okay. Well, all this book talk has made me quite sleepy. What about you, Kristin?

B (19:50)

I'm ready to turn in, too. Underneath all of these clothes that I have on right now and with sweet images in my head of the books we're going to read next.

A (19:59)

Exactly. Okay, well, I'll talk to you next time. Good night, Kristen.

B (20:03)

Good night, Sophia.

A (20:25)

Sam. To learn more about our phone free light and audio experience, head to Hatch Co. You can also follow us at Hatch Podcasts.