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- [00:00]
A
Hello. You're about to drift into an episode of the Nightly, a podcast designed to help you unwind and relax. For the full phone free immersive light experience, visit Hatch Co. Enjoy. All right, I'm Mat.
- [00:32]
B
And I'm kp. Welcome to the Nightly from Hatch, a slumber party for pop culture lovers. And speaking of a party, tonight, we are joined again by the lovely Deanna Ortiz. She's a comedian and host of the Hatch bedtime podcast that I love, which is called Crime for Bed.
- [00:49]
C
Hello. Hi, guys.
- [00:51]
B
Hi, Deanna.
- [00:52]
C
How's it going?
- [00:53]
A
Hello. Lovely to see you again, Deanna. I feel like it's been ages. How are you?
- [00:59]
C
I know. Yeah, I've been really good. Just keeping up to date with all the different crimes in the world. Good thing there's always going to be some. Some new crimes. Isn't that kind of inspirational? It's kind of sweet in a way.
- [01:11]
B
Deanna, there's always crime going on, but today there's a particular reason you wanted to join us. Is that right?
- [01:17]
C
So I have a new. Well, not really new, but kind of current crime to inform you guys on if. If you'll have me.
- [01:24]
A
Absolutely.
- [01:25]
C
Here's my first question, please. Am I the only one that is getting 1 million spam calls every single day?
- [01:34]
B
Okay, mine just kicked back up.
- [01:36]
C
What is happening, Matt, does that happen to you?
- [01:38]
A
Oh, yeah. I get loads of spam calls. I'm always torn as well, whether to kind of entertain it, because I think if you've got the time, which I do, it's quite a noble thing to do, isn't it? Because it keeps them from bothering other people.
- [01:52]
C
So you like to give them the run around.
- [01:54]
A
I like to just have a little chat. Yeah. It keeps the. Gives me something to do.
- [01:59]
C
My issue. I'm like, why do they think that I own a home? That's the number one thing that I get. Well, one, they think my name is Eric. And they're like, eric, we have to talk to you about your house. And I'm like, okay, let's go.
- [02:10]
A
So I get asked about crypto a lot with mine.
- [02:13]
C
Oh, you should take them up on that.
- [02:14]
A
They talk about my crypto wallet.
- [02:16]
C
Yeah. You got to answer those calls.
- [02:18]
A
Yeah.
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B
The little hot tip that I didn't even know I was doing, but I'm doing is my phone was bought for me by my dad when he lived in Louisiana. I've never been to Louisiana. So the spam calls try and replicate my area code, which is like, Louisiana. It says. So then I know automatically. No One I know is in Louisiana, so I don't answer those calls.
- [02:41]
C
You know, That's a good tip.
- [02:43]
A
That's handy. Yeah.
- [02:45]
B
I recommend if you have an estranged dad, this is the tip for you. You guys are gonna love this one.
- [02:52]
C
My tip, give your email out to every Instagram ad that asks for it.
- [02:57]
B
That's.
- [02:57]
C
I know. I'm feeding into it.
- [02:59]
B
I just give the email that I had since I was, like, 15 that is, I think, compromised in 4,000 different ways.
- [03:06]
C
I'm sure. Yeah.
- [03:07]
A
That's so depressing that, isn't it? When you see on your. I think it does it on Apple somewhere, but it says, like, your password has been compromised 486 times. This is beyond repair, isn't it?
- [03:20]
B
I don't know what to do at this point.
- [03:21]
C
That's not for me to know. I just exit out of that notification.
- [03:24]
A
It would be easier to change my own identity at this point.
- [03:28]
B
Burn your thumbprints off and just start over.
- [03:31]
C
Let's do it. So this crime has to do with the spam calls and how they get her information and all that good stuff. So this is the crimes and the arrest of Jen Shaw, Real Housewife of Salt Lake City. Jen Shaw. Does that ring a bell for anyone?
- [03:46]
B
It absolutely rings a bell, and I'm really happy you're here to, like, explain it to me, because I have so many friends that are so in the housewives culture. But it's a long story, they seem to say. Or it's like it's got twists and.
- [03:58]
C
Turns, and if you're in, you're in, and if you're out, it's like, why would I even begin to learn about that? Matt, Are you Matt? Are you a Real Housewives of Salt Lake City fan?
- [04:06]
B
Matt, be honest, too. Okay?
- [04:10]
A
I do feel bad now you framed it like that, because I am out, but I still care. I want to learn. I know absolutely nothing about what this is, and so I just. But I trust that you're gonna bring a good story, and that's what I'm here for.
- [04:28]
B
Yes.
- [04:45]
C
So we have the Real Housewives franchise, which is just like, crazy women on TV throwing cocktails at each other, I think is a good way to summarize it.
- [04:54]
B
Absolutely.
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A
Okay, I'm back in. I'm back in.
- [04:56]
C
Love it. So the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. The Real Housewives franchise has been going on for a long time, but they started the Salt Lake City in 2020, and that's when we're first introduced to Jen Shaw. Jen is married with Two kids. Her husband is the football coach of the University of Utah. So during her interview when she's, like, applying to be on the Real Housewives, she's showing off her giant, like, million dollar mansion. She calls it the Shaw Chalet. She shows off her. I want to name my house.
- [05:26]
A
I mean, surely put those together.
- [05:28]
C
Oh, and that's the thing. As you go on, on and on, she, like, trademarks her last name. Like Shaw, she said like Shamazing or like Shaw. Eyelashes, Sha lashes. Like, she's marketing beyond belief.
- [05:40]
A
My problem with Char's one is that shouldn't be Charlay. That should be Charlay.
- [05:44]
C
Yeah. She also is showing off, like, her luxury, like, clothes and designer things. Her husband even is, during the interview is like, my wife is addicted to shopping. So. Right. Like, that gets her the number one spot. Not only is she on the show, she's like the center of the show. She immediately becomes the fan favorite. She's throwing crazy parties. And she also introduces everybody to this full empire of people that are working for her. She calls them the Shah Squad, of course. Oh, my God.
- [06:14]
B
It's already, like, dark.
- [06:15]
C
I know, I know. It's already bleak.
- [06:17]
A
It's cultish, isn't it?
- [06:19]
C
Yeah.
- [06:20]
B
You may get to this in a bit, but, like, surely a college football coach amount of money is not enough to keep this chalet and Shaw squad, is it?
- [06:32]
C
Exactly. So, like, okay, she. That's the number one question that people have, like, fans that are watching, and even when they do, like, interviews with them in real life, people are like, how. How do you have all this money? She has stylists, fashion designers, social media managers. She has eight assistants. What are you talking about?
- [06:47]
B
Oh, my God.
- [06:48]
C
So immediately that's the immediate question that everyone's asking. And she tells people that she does market research and data analytics. Like, she's just giving out buzzwords. Right.
- [06:58]
B
Basically, she does jargon for a living.
- [07:00]
C
Yeah, I do stuff and things. And everyone's like, for sure, absolutely. She basically says, you know, when you click on an ad or you click on something or you buy something, my company is the mastermind behind the algorithm that gets pushed to you. Okay, so vague enough. It's that type of back of the Internet type coding stuff that she knows that no one really knows what's going on.
- [07:24]
A
Yeah. And it's plausible that that would make someone a lot of money.
- [07:27]
C
Exactly.
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B
Cause you go tech, okay? Tech has money in it. Anything with tech you go, sure, that makes sense.
- [07:33]
C
Yeah. I can buy a Swiss chalet in the. In the middle Of Salt Lake City.
- [07:36]
B
Yeah, that's fine.
- [07:38]
C
So the show goes on the beginning of season two. It's January of 2023, and they're just kind of filming the women in this, like, big party bus as they're going on vacation. So while this is happening, Jen takes a phone call, and immediately she starts whispering. This is all covered on camera. It's amazing. You guys can watch it. But she takes the call and she starts whispering, and she asks another housewife to unplug her battery pack. And then without really saying much, she. She says something about her husband having, like, a medical issue. She gets in a separate car and she leaves. And everyone's like, oh, oh, sad. Okay, whatever. A couple minutes later, the cops swarm the bus that the rest of the housewives are staying in. Oh, like SWAT team. Like, not only was it, like, Homeland Security, Salt Lake City police, New York police. What? They flew in? Nypd crazy. Like, the feds are here. The funniest part to me is that one of the other housewives and, you know, they're all kind of watching it all unfold, and they're going, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh. One housewife refuses to believe that this is not a prank. And she has a big, goofy grin. She's like, guys, is this a prank? Are we being pranked? Like, she's. She's living for it. She's like, ashton Kutcher is nearby. This is happening. So funny. So eventually they come to find out that, you know, they are looking for Jen. And they go, jen just left. And they tell, you know, them she left in this car. She was going this way. Her husband had a medical emergency. No one really knows what's going on. Off camera, the police do find Jen Shaw, and they arrest her along with her head assistant, Stuart Smith, on federal charges for conspiracy to commit wire fraud, money laundering, and accuse them of running a nationwide telemarketing fraud scheme.
- [09:27]
B
Oh, my God.
- [09:28]
A
Wow.
- [09:29]
C
I love reality tv, because that is. What a beautiful way to start season two. That's how they open the second season.
- [09:36]
A
Wow.
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B
You know, the producers were like, this is the greatest day of my life.
- [09:40]
C
Oh, my goodness. Amazing.
- [09:43]
A
Wow.
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B
Because we haven't had, like, a sort of arrestable woman on tv. Big Ang. I think she went to prison.
- [09:49]
C
Yeah. Big Ange.
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A
Big Ange.
- [09:52]
C
She was Mob Wives.
- [09:53]
B
She's incredible.
- [09:54]
C
Yeah, there's, like, a mob related reality show. It's called Mob Wives. And, you know, Big Ang is exactly. Exactly how you picture her. She was like something.
- [10:03]
B
Yeah, she's got the craziest voice and look in the world. She's just like incredible.
- [10:07]
C
I really recommend unapologetically Mob Wives.
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A
And that's. There was a TV show dedicated like genuine Mob Wives.
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B
Yes.
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A
That seems.
- [10:16]
B
And there was like some legal loopholes where it was like some of them, their husbands are already in jail so it's like that's fine. And then some it's like he died. So it's kind of like, you know, there's no current arrestable.
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A
Some of them just work in waste management.
- [10:30]
B
Exactly, exactly.
- [10:32]
C
Oh man, that's good.
- [10:34]
B
But anyway, okay. Wow. So Genshot because she was, I mean I watched like maybe half a season and she was kind of the darling. It was like she's made for reality tv. She's like really got luxurious taste and.
- [10:46]
C
This lifestyle that's almost like unachievable. And that's such a great point because like it is what you come to find out. Her whole life is fake. Yeah, it was totally unreal.
- [10:57]
B
So what was she doing? What is wire fraud? Telemarketing? What is that? Yeah.
- [11:01]
C
So from for almost 10 years Jen's company was taking information and selling them to higher up scams. So you know, you would be on the Internet and maybe you would see something, you know that was like do you want to work from home? Like make a hundred million dollars from working from home? And they say yeah, I want to do that. They click on that and that gives their information to Jen's company. Jen's company then calls them and sells them a product. You know, like, oh here, I'll build you this website for a thousand dollars and then this is how you're going to work from home. They don't really give them much information outside of that but they do take all of the, their you know, email, phone number and they push them up to another level of scam, like different company which can then do the same thing again and again. So basically it's like, oh I'm, I'm at tier one and you give me a thousand dollars, I'm going to send you to my coworker and that's tier two. And then you give them more money and then you'll be able to do all this stuff. It's, it's very multi level marketing, it's very pyramid schemes.
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A
But for scams, did they elaborate on what sort of business there was kind of push in?
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C
It was like mostly website building and business coaching. People just wanting to improve themselves and then trusting that these scam callers are the people that are going to help them do that. And you know, very sadly, the people who sign up for this are targeted. They're elderly people and disabled people. They don't really know what to do with these things.
- [12:22]
B
It's also just such a bummer when it is like you said, like targeting people that want a job, targeting people that would like to be making money, targeting people that are working to like, better themselves is just. That's the problem with like a lot of these is like the lularoe ones. It's just like you're trying to like take advantage of people that are trying to, trying to make some work.
- [12:43]
C
And even if people caught on or, you know, like maybe bought in once and then were like, oh wait, no, this is a scam. They still have their information. So they're being bombarded with all these different scams. Some victims saying that they paid upwards of forty to a hundred thousand dollars of their own money. Oh my God, to never be again, of course. So no one really knows. Especially because it's not just Jen, it's this big other company. So how much money are people stealing? The other side note that on this is that they arrested Jen as like a co conspirator with this whole big company outside of it. So it's, I mean, it's brilliant for the, for the government because they get to pin Jen, who is like big celebrity and be like, if we can arrest this woman, we can arrest everybody else. Like we can put this woman in jail. That'll hopefully deter people from doing this in the future.
- [13:39]
B
Yeah. And it is just like, man, it's just shocking that she thought she could kind of get away with this because it is like the first thing you think when you see her is like, there's no way this is your husband's salary. What are you doing? It doesn't make sense.
- [13:51]
A
That is the crazy thing, isn't it? Why would you put that out there when you could just go under the radar? She could have probably got away with that for years and years longer.
- [13:59]
C
Exactly. When I do my big scam, no one will know. Okay? I'm burying that money underground. No problem.
- [14:07]
B
Yep.
- [14:07]
C
And I'm glad I got that on tape.
- [14:11]
B
You're playing a long game. They do not know where to get you.
- [14:14]
C
So Jen pleads not guilty to these, these charges. She gets out on a million dollar bail. And here's the thing, it is all covered on the TV show. So while she's waiting for sentencings, while she's waiting for all this out on bail, it is Basically most of season two. And she's just proclaiming her innocence of like, I didn't do this. I'm innocent. They're using me as what? Like, it is all on tv.
- [14:39]
B
That is insane to go on the show. You could say something that would hurt your case. Is that not, like, crazy?
- [14:47]
C
I love her addiction to fame. She's like, I'm gonna do this. Remember, she also had her assistant, a man named Stuart Smith, who had been. This is like, number one assistant, like, number one guy who's been working with her for years and years and years. So gen plea did guilty. Stuart pleaded guilty, which immediately sets Jen up. Oh, right. Stuart, he's. He's playing some other type of game.
- [15:10]
B
Well, I'm sure they just made him a deal that was like, I mean, you've got to do it.
- [15:14]
C
Exactly right. So Jen stands by her innocence up until the day her trial was set to begin on July of 2022. She reversed her course. She pleaded guilty because she wanted to avoid a trial. She also didn't want, you know, all of these people, people that worked for her or, you know, her past assistant to come in and basically, like, say that of course she's stealing. Of course this was a scam. She knew it was a scam. The money laundering count was dropped under a plea agreement. So she, she. She was being very strategic about this. And while the sentencing is happening, her whole life is basically falling apart. They realize that none of the luxury items that she had, like her million dollar house, was a rental. Isn't that just beautiful?
- [16:00]
A
Wait, not the chalet.
- [16:02]
C
The chalet was rented. The chalet. Rented chalet. What?
- [16:07]
B
Where was her money going? Just shopping things.
- [16:10]
A
Yeah.
- [16:10]
C
So it's like her whole life was fake. Her whole life was a fraud. I think she's spending money faster than she can make it. And when she does make it, it's like, you know, a scam from.
- [16:22]
A
I know you said this is playing out across the course of the whole series, but so was she technically still a star of the show at that point? Cause usually if a big scandal happens, the TV show's really quick to be like, right. We distance ourselves from this person. It has nothing to do with this.
- [16:40]
C
Oh, no.
- [16:41]
B
The housewives.
- [16:41]
C
Eat it up. Eat it up.
- [16:43]
B
I love that.
- [16:44]
C
Well, I think it was mostly just up until the sentencing. I think once the sentencing started and like, the actual court case started, it wasn't. I'm not really sure if they covered all of that, but I do know that when she was out on bail, it was covered on the show.
- [16:57]
B
I mean, if her number one one guy was involved, surely her husband was involved too, right?
- [17:04]
C
Well, that's the other thing that the husband was basically like, they. And strategically, they opened season two saying that Jen and her husband are on rocky ground.
- [17:14]
B
Surely, of course.
- [17:16]
C
Beautifully.
- [17:16]
B
Come on.
- [17:17]
C
Chef's kiss. He says that he didn't know. He also says that he's not really around much. And that's kind of true. Based on season one, there was like, you know, family drama about, like, their relationship. Also, before he was a football coach, he was an attorney and like a lawyer. So if it's. If he knew or he didn't know, he's very much saying, like, what? Oh, no.
- [17:42]
B
That is wild. If the person I'm with is bringing in a couple Milli, I'm going to go. Mind walking me through this?
- [17:48]
C
Let's chat. So at sentencing, she sent away for six and a half years. She was also ordered to forfeit $6.5 million to the US government and ordered to pay 6.6 million in restitution for her victims. Yeah. So Jen starts serving her sentence in February of 2023. She has her sentence reduced multiple times due to good behavior, participating in prison programs, which I didn't know that that was something that you could do to get your time reduced. And also she starts making these restitution payments. So because of that, she got her sentence reduced and she's set to be released on December 10th of 2025. So at the time of this episode airing, Jen Cha should be a free woman. Oh, my God.
- [18:33]
B
Like, right now.
- [18:34]
C
Yeah.
- [18:34]
B
Oh, my gosh.
- [18:35]
A
So where was she serving this prison time? Was she in, like, presumably? It wasn't like, a supermax prison cell.
- [18:41]
C
She was in Bryan, Texas. Oh. A minimum security prison. And I do think that it was kind of chill vibes as opposed to maybe some other prison stories that we hear of.
- [18:54]
B
Not to be crazy, but how hard is it to get good behavior at a nice person?
- [18:58]
C
Right.
- [18:59]
B
I mean, feels like it'd be easy to get good behavior there.
- [19:02]
C
She's like, improving her fitness routine. She's reaching out to other inmates. Thank God she's getting buff.
- [19:10]
B
I really was worried that she was thinking about her actions, but phew. No.
- [19:15]
C
She's working. She's really focusing on self improvement. She's like, reaching out to. She's like, connecting with other inmates. And maybe that's kind of where it like about the participation in prison program. She's like, you know, part of the community. It also says that she's Reflecting on her actions. This did make me laugh because when I was doing the research, reflecting was in quotation marks, which. No, she's reflecting.
- [19:36]
B
Yeah, I'm sure.
- [19:37]
C
So I'm sure. I don't know where her husband and kids are right now, but she is going to be released after two. Just over two and a half years off of her six and a half year sentence.
- [19:47]
A
That's really good.
- [19:48]
B
I know. Do you think she's going to be received by the housewives lovers as like an icon or do you think they're like, you went too far?
- [19:57]
C
You know, it's really torn because after she was arrested, they interviewed the other housewives that were on the show with her. And a lot of them were like, we stand by our girl. Like they. A lot of them were like, this is our girl. We, we like ride or die. The fandom is also kind of torn. Right. Some people are like, she is a criminal, she is a thief. Do not let this woman back on the show.
- [20:19]
B
Right.
- [20:20]
C
And then other people are like, reality TV is reality tv. Like they're all bad people.
- [20:25]
B
And.
- [20:25]
C
And that's kind of why we watch them.
- [20:27]
A
Yeah, but I think bad people and committing wire fraud.
- [20:31]
C
Totally.
- [20:32]
A
There's people who are like, yeah, just not self aware. And that's good to watch. But I do think you gotta draw the line.
- [20:38]
C
This is the second housewife that's been in prison. Teresa Giudice, I think is her name, went to jail with some things that went on with her husband. So this is like, still, I guess this is part of the lore now that like the housewives are criminals.
- [20:55]
B
I mean, there's so many of them and they have so much wealth. I mean, you have to assume it's a matter of time.
- [21:00]
A
There's got to be law of averages. How many housewives are there?
- [21:04]
B
I mean, there's probably like a hundred housewives. Right? Is that crazy?
- [21:08]
C
There's a whole collection and you gotta collect them all.
- [21:10]
B
And there's BravoCon. Matt, I don't know if you know, but there's like kind of a convention where people. It's really quite popular and everybody goes to just like see these housewives.
- [21:21]
A
What to do? Like a sort of meet and greet.
- [21:23]
B
Yeah, meet and greet panels, talking about stuff, selling your information.
- [21:29]
C
So you go, you give them all of your pertinent information and that's BravoCon. And it's kind of fun.
- [21:34]
A
Perfect. And then get a photo. Let's go.
- [21:38]
B
Wow. So I mean, ostensibly she is. She's walking among us kind of right now.
- [21:43]
C
Yeah, right. So Andy. Andy Cohen, who kind of is like, you know, the. The big head honcho in Bravo land, he said that Real Housewives of Salt Lake City will not have Jen back on the show, but he did say that she will probably be on other shows. And there's been a lot of stuff. I was reading this that's been talked about that she might get asked, or they're thinking about asking her to do Dancing with the Stars or that Dancing with the Stars is interested in casting her, which would be insane.
- [22:15]
B
Of course.
- [22:15]
A
You can see it happening, though, can't you?
- [22:17]
C
Oh, I can see her saying yes in a heartbeat.
- [22:19]
B
It's just such a. It's a bit of a slap in the face, though. If you lost $42,000, wouldn't you say. Wouldn't you say if you're one of the people that gave, you know, an entire salary to this woman that seeing her, like, do the samba week after week might be a little annoying, but.
- [22:37]
C
What if she does an amazing paso doble? Like that would be okay?
- [22:41]
B
Well, then I forgive her.
- [22:42]
C
That's exactly right. Like, all of these victims are. Who will probably never really see any of this money back. You know, there's. She had this company for 10 years. There's countless, countless, countless people who will never get any of this money back. And now she's, you know, doing interviews for E. News or whatever. Like, it's. It's really, really wild. I'm very interested to see what the reception is back from the. The Real Housewives franchise, because like we were saying at the beginning, all on board or they are not on board at all with this, like, it's a very love it or leave it type of fandom. So we'll see what happens.
- [23:18]
A
I think even in this day and age, though, you can get away with it, can't you? Because even if 50% of the TV show audience aren't on board, you can. I guarantee she'll start a podcast or something and just hoover up that other 50%.
- [23:31]
B
Yeah. She'll never have to work again. I mean, her face and image is now enough to carry her, you know?
- [23:37]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [23:39]
B
Well, thank you so much for sharing with us the twists and turns of Jen Shah.
- [23:45]
C
Thank you guys for having me.
- [23:46]
B
I really had no clue. And it's an interesting little hole she's gotten herself into. And.
- [23:53]
C
And now it'll make us appreciate these spam calls the next time we get them.
- [23:57]
B
You know, it's a new way of looking at it that maybe I'll get to talk to Jen Cha, thank you so much for coming into the pillow fort. I think the only thing left for me to do is to go right to sleep. Good night, Deanna.
- [24:10]
C
Good night, Matt. Good night.
- [24:12]
A
19. To learn more about our phone free light and audio experience, head to Hatch co. You can also follow us HatchPodcasts.