Wuthering Heights & To DNF or Not DNF

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Nightly – “Wuthering Heights & To DNF or Not DNF”

Host: Hatch Podcasts
Date: February 7, 2026

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Episode Overview

This cozy, book-focused edition of The Nightly is all about winding down with pop culture talk centered on recent reads, literary tastes, and the age-old debate: should you finish a book you aren’t enjoying (“to DNF or not DNF”)? Hosts KP and Kristen chat book club woes, reading habits, and the lure (or dread) of classics like Wuthering Heights. If you crave gentle, warm literary banter with a dash of sleepover nostalgia, this episode is your perfect bedtime companion.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Productivity, To-Do Lists & Procrastination (00:30–03:43)

• Hosts bond over productive days and the satisfaction of manageable to-do lists (“Some of the items on the list were, like, things that took four minutes to do, but who cares? I crossed it off the list, right?” – KP, 02:00).
• Talk about procrastination hacks, referencing viral videos of tackling long-avoided tasks (02:06).
• KP’s favorite approach: breaking big chores down (“I’m trying to do like five [items] a week” – KP, 02:58).

2. Book Club Highlights: Recent Reads & the “DNF” Struggle (03:43–13:07)

• KP’s Current Read: Ancillary Justice by Ann Leckie (05:10)

  • Picked for book club because it’s a highly-awarded new sci-fi novel (05:10–05:41).
  • Reality: KP finds it slow and hard to follow—confused by the narrative structure, limited pronouns, and lack of emotional depth (07:00–08:14).
  • Still feels compelled to finish: “I really have a rule that if I start it, we’re gonna get to the finish line” (06:09).
  • Book club friends dislike it too, making KP feel responsible for a drudgery pick (09:23–10:07).

• Kristen’s “DNF” Philosophy:
  “I’ve forced myself before… and I just finally said, you know what? Not one more minute of my life is being wasted on this.” (08:44)

  • Advice: Quit books that bring no joy, even far in, though she gets the pressure to “just finish” (08:44–10:09).

• Book Awards & Peer Pressure:
  KP’s reluctance to DNF is partly “it has a Hugo Award and a Nebula Award—this has to be for reasons” (09:23). Kristen and KP joke that maybe the awards’ judges just have different “vibes.”

3. Reading Habits and Audio vs. Eyes (11:16–13:43)

• Kristen’s Super-Reader Stats: 245 books last year, most via audiobooks played at 1.5x speed (04:35–05:10).
• Prefers memoirs and first-person novels as audio, feels like “a long podcast” (13:10–13:40).
• KP’s Process: Physical reading for wind-down, carefully organizes “to be read” shelf as a motivator (11:22).

4. Notable Book Recommendations

• Ancillary Justice (Ann Leckie, discussed above)

  • Not a hit for KP/book club; tricky structure and flat emotional engagement
  • “Sometimes it’s just not a match. It’s like online dating.” – Kristen (12:41)

• My Mama Cass by Owen Elliot Kugel (13:43–18:23)

  • Kristen recommends this memoir written by Cass Elliott’s daughter, which explores her mother’s legacy, fatphobia she overcame, and the history of the ’60s–’70s (13:43–15:55).
  • Even for non-fans of The Mamas & the Papas, the vividness and love in the account shine.
  • Drawn to it after reading Riley Keough’s double memoir with her late mother Lisa Marie Presley (17:10–18:23).

• Best Offer Wins by Marissa Cascino (18:29–19:54)

  • Kristen’s next read: novel about a woman scrambling for real estate in New York, full of questionable choices—a fit for Zillow and HGTV obsessives.

• Wuthering Heights (Brontë) (19:54–22:28)

  • KP’s up next, aiming to finish before the film adaptation releases.
  • Kristen teases the “unnecessary” frame narrative that slows the start (21:12–21:43).
  • Both admit classic lit can be a slog, but come with the pleasure of “insider” cultural knowledge.

• Other classics on KP’s horizon: Dante’s Inferno, “because then you’re a part of a bunch of inside jokes” (12:00).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Audiobook Speed
  • “I listen to books and because I listen to them always at at least 1.5 speed… every day when I’m cleaning the house or taking my daily walk or if I’m in transit.” – Kristen (04:40)
• On Finishing Books That Don’t Resonate
  • “It is just—sci-fi is such a genre where it is like, clarity can be so important… so when there’s a lack of clarity, I’m just frustrated. I’m not having the best time.” – KP (06:09)
• Kristen’s DNF Permission Slip
  • “Not another minute of my life. No, I know.” (08:44)
• Book Club Guilt
  • “Now I have six of my friends slogging through the same book and none of them like it either… Everyone’s having a bad time this month.” – KP (09:34)
• On Reading Classics
  • “I feel like I like the classics because then you’re like a part of a bunch of inside jokes that you didn’t know you were missing out on.” – KP (12:00)
• Literary Joke
  • “Why say something in four words when you can say it in forty?” – Kristen (20:45)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:30–03:43: Cozy productivity chat, relatable procrastination talk
• 03:43–13:07: Book club segment, the “to DNF or not DNF?” debate, Ancillary Justice review
• 13:07–18:23: Kristen’s listening habits, My Mama Cass recommendation, thoughts on memoirs
• 18:29–19:54: Real estate fiction (Best Offer Wins)
• 19:54–22:28: The pleasures and pitfalls of classic lit, Wuthering Heights anticipation
• 22:28–22:54: Farewell & bookish sweet dreams

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Tone & Style

Friendly, warm, and confessional, with plenty of mutual encouragement, gentle self-mockery, and palpable affection for books—even the sloggy ones. The conversation is playful (“buckle my knuckles”) and never takes itself too seriously.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

You’ll come away with:

• Empathetic takes on why we force ourselves to finish (or abandon) books
• Fresh book recs from sci-fi to memoir to literary classics
• The reassurance that not loving “important” books is normal
• Permission to read for joy—and skip the drudgery

Cozy up, add a couple titles to your TBR, and drift off with a bookish grin.

Transcript

[A]

Hello. You're about to drift into an episode of the Nightly, a podcast designed to help you unwind and relax. For the full phone free immersive light experience. Visit Hatch Co. Enjoy.

[B]

What a cozy, perfect, delectable evening. I'm kp. Oh, my God. I stole your line. It's totally fine, kp.

[C]

I'm Kristen. And you know what? It's always good to be here. It doesn't matter what order we talk in. Just happy to see your beautiful face and happy to be joined by all the listeners out there. Welcome to the Nightly from Hatch, a slumber party for pop culture lovers.

[B]

This is one of those moments where us having the same name really confuses my brain because I saw Kristen and I said, that's my name. That's me.

[C]

Listeners, did you know that KP's name was Kristin, by the way?

[B]

Do they know that I'm outing myself here? But that's. That's on the birth certificate, so. And it's spelled. Kristen spells hers the exact right way, correct?

[C]

Yes. We are both tens. We are not tins. Yes.

[B]

And everyone says that about us, that we're both tens.

[C]

We absolutely are. I always say this.

[B]

Well, aside from me stealing your line, I have a feeling it's going to be a beautiful, beautiful. I'm feeling quite relaxed. I'm feeling like it's been a real. I've actually feel like I haven't forgotten any emails, any annoying things. So now I get to just, like, live my life in peace. How's your life going, Kristen?

[C]

Oh, I love that when everything's crossed off the to do list. I very fortunately had one of those days. And it might be because my list only had like, six items today.

[B]

That's fine. I like a list that's, like, very manageable. Yeah, I do those often.

[C]

And some of the items on the list were, like, things that took four minutes to do, but who cares? I crossed it off the list, right?

[B]

Have you seen this girl that is making videos where she is helping her friends and family do something that they've been procrastinating?

[C]

No.

[B]

And so she is like, so how long have you been procrastinating this? And they'll be like, three years. Avoiding cleaning my junk drawer. And then she gets there and then at the end she's like, okay, that took 36 minutes. And it, like, really puts into perspective that, like, I have so many of those things that I'm like, yeah, that's been now two years that I've been saying, I'm going to have a yard Sale to get rid of some old things and I should just do it.

[C]

You can do it. You can do it. Especially if you do it in small bits where it's just like, today I'm just going to gather up, you know, shirts that are no longer serving a purpose for me anymore. And that would probably take you less than seven minutes to just grab the shirts in your house that you're like, eh, I don't need these shirts anymore. Right.

[B]

That's what I've been doing a little bit. I've been like, okay, if I put five articles of clothing on Depop to sell them, then eventually I will get rid of all of the stuff in my closet that I don't like. So I'm trying to do like five a week.

[C]

Ah, that's great. And does not take long at all, right?

[B]

No, it does not.

[C]

Well, kp, I love that you and I have been so productive today taking care of our to do lists. But something else we've been doing, which is not a to do item, it's just a pleasure item, is you and I have been doing a lot of reading lately, so.

[B]

Agree.

[C]

Shall we kick off another round of the nightly book club and talk about what it is we've been reading?

[B]

Please.

[C]

All right. I want to start with you. I feel like you read such good books, you have such interesting and varied tastes in authors and so on. So what is one of the books that you've really enjoyed recently?

[B]

Okay. Well, humiliatingly, I think. Last time I spoke about books on this podcast, I was still reading this book. So I never said I was fast. But I do read.

[C]

It's not about speed. It really isn't anybody else out there who is like, you know those speed readers who are like, I read like four books a day, Bless your hearts. I really admire you. But wow.

[B]

But some of my hometown friends, I mean, they really, I look at their list of books that they put at the end of the year and I'm like, I need to do some calculations to see if there were even that many minutes in the day. Because you and I are operating on a different set. I don't know how that worked for you. 200 and something books.

[C]

Okay, I confess, I'm one of the people who do that. But I read 245 books last year.

[B]

But Kristin.

[C]

But you know why, KT? I listen to books and because I listen to them always at at least 1.5 speed. Always. That means you're big brainy. That means every day when I'm cleaning the house or Taking my daily walk or if I'm in transit. So this is not a brag by any means. My husband reads way more than I do, and I'm like, how does he do it?

[B]

Is he also doing audiobooks all the time?

[C]

He's just a fast reader with his eyes. Yeah, he's one of those people.

[B]

I am fast with my eyes. Like, if you actually put a book in front of me, I'm quite speedy. But I really enjoy podcasts and music in my day, so I'm usually doing that throughout my day when I'm listening. But anyway, here's what I'm up to. I'm still reading the book Ancillary Justice. This is a sci fi, A newer Sci Fi by. I think Ann Leckie is the name. And I was interested because it says it got a Hugo Award, which in.

[C]

Sci fi, that's always a good sign.

[B]

Yes, really great. And especially a new sci fi. I'm like, you know, I'm a sci fi lover. Robert Heinlein, Ursula Le Guin. I like the old sci fi. Sci fi's really hit for me.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Now with love and respect. This one's not hitting.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

This is why it's been taking me a bit, because I'm really trying my darndest. I really have a rule that if I start it, we're gonna get to the finish line.

[C]

Okay. You and I are so different. If you start it, even if you're not enjoying it, you force yourself.

[B]

I do, because I. I firmly believe that some things can really turn around once you have better context. Like, I think some shows, some movies where the beginning is like, that's not hitting. Then you get more information and you're like, okay, now I'm really in for the long haul. Wow. But this is really tempting me to not finish. It's not horrible. It's definitely not horrible. It is just. Sci fi is such a genre where it is like, clarity can be so important because we're picturing things that don't exist. We're picturing different timelines, we're picturing different planets. So when there's a lack of clarity, I'm just frustrated. I'm not having the best time.

[C]

So is the lack of clarity mostly with the world building, the story, the characters, all of the above?

[B]

It's kind of all. And including the structure, too. So it's one of those books where it is like two timelines are kind of happening at once. Like a flashback throughout is occurring as well as a current day, which I. I enjoy. But it does add a little, like, your brain's working a bit to remember which timeline we're in and what's happening in each of them. You know, so already that's occurring. And then this author has decided that in this one language, there aren't multiple pronouns. So. And that's like, a cool idea. I'm like, down to try and see what other language, you know, things can happen. But it does make it hard to follow who is doing what and sort of what they look like. And, like, it's just in general, I'm like, wait, who's speaking right now? And then we have a character who is like, kind of a cyborg esque. So there's not a ton of emotional depth so far. So I'm having just a hard time latching onto anything. That's where I'm at.

[C]

This sounds really tough, kp.

[B]

This is a hard one. And I like a hard side because, like, I will say, what's the one? The dispossessed, I think, was one that I read last year by Ursula Le Guin. And that was a bit difficult. It was like, okay, there's big themes. There's multiple planets, but that was like, okay, that's difficult for a payoff. And there's a lot of emotional depth. This one I'm sticking in, and I'm just not even seeing where something will pay off.

[C]

Kp, you don't have to finish it. I know you don't need my permission, but I just feel like I've forced myself before. I've forced myself to. There was one book, maybe six months ago. I think the book was like a thousand pages, and I forced myself to get through 700 of them. And I just finally said, you know what? Not one more minute of my life is being wasted on this. And it was like I was being like you. I'm like, this can turn around. Maybe this can turn around. And I talked to him, one friend who said, but you're already almost 3, 4 of the way through. You should just finish. And I'm like, not another minute of my life. No, I know.

[B]

Here's the only thing that's keeping me is like, it has a Hugo Award and a Nebula Award. And I'm like, this has to be for reasons.

[C]

Those are the big awards for sci fi. If you're a sci fi author, those are the ones you want.

[B]

Yeah. So I go, okay, clearly something good must come of this if we have a Hugo and a Nebula on the front cover. But maybe the judges and I, we don't have the same vibes. And that's okay, too. I did say last time I brought this book up, I picked this book as my book club book. So now I have six of my friends slogging through the same book and none of them like it either. They're all mad at me. Oh, my gosh. I chose it. Cause I was like, oh, perfect. This is a no brainer. It's got awards and now everyone's mad at me. Everyone's having a bad time this month.

[C]

I've. You know what? We've all done that. Any of us who have been in a book club, we've been the person picking the bad book. I do it a lot. I must confess, I accidentally pick bad. I just don't think I'm a good picker. And so I just. I know you're paying kp. You feel a responsibility here. But that makes it even harder to quit because your book club are trying to. They're trying to slog through.

[B]

I am. Two thirds of the way through. I just have to knuckle. Knuckle down. No, buckle down. I just have to buckle my knuckles and get to reading this book. It's just hard because I read before bed. This is part of my wind down. And it doesn't feel like a treat right now to go to my 30 minutes in this book. But we're almost done. We're just going to get to the end. Here's my last thing I'll say. I'm saying we're almost done. It is a trilogy.

[C]

Oof.

[B]

But I'm sorry, we're not going to be reading 2 and 3. 2 and 3 won't be making one.

[C]

And done is fine. You don't have to read the whole.

[B]

Trilogy unless it gets really good at the end here. We'll see. But I think we might be finished after this.

[C]

I. Again, I know you don't need my permission. I'm giving you permission to never read anything in this trilogy again.

[B]

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Hopefully we're almost finished and then I can move on because I have like a stack of seven. I arranged my bookshelf by what I'm gonna be reading next. So I have like seven books waiting for their turn in line at the end of the bookshelf here.

[C]

And those other books are like, you will love us. We're right.

[B]

Well, I have a lot. Yeah, I have some classics that I'm like. It seems as if I should read. What's one that I'm. Oh, Dante's Inferno is up there. And I'm like, that's probably a good one to hit.

[C]

I need to hit some of those classics. I feel like there are so many classics where I'm like, did I even read that? Or if I read it, did I just skim it while I was in high school?

[B]

Totally. And I feel like I like the classics because then you're like a part of a bunch of inside jokes that you didn't know you were missing out on. I feel like where you're like, ah, Even in like Looney Tunes, when they mention Dr. Faustus or something, then you're like, ah, I've read that.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Or something like that. So. And they be. Some of them become my favorites. I love Frankenstein. That's one of my all time faves.

[C]

Ah, Mary Shelley. Love that gal.

[B]

Absolutely love her last thing. If you enjoy this book or if you're Ann Leckie herself listening to this, I think you're lovely and I think you're wonderful. And I really like sci fi and I really like that anyone is writing new sci fi. And it all helps.

[C]

Oh, yeah. Sometimes it's just not a match. It's like online dating. Like, it doesn't make you a bad person. We're just not a match here. Me and this book, we're just not a match.

[B]

And it could be, even for this season. I could try reading it in one year and it might be my favorite book of all time. It's. Sometimes it's just got to hit you. Right. Right now I'm in a different wavelength.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

Okay, Kristin, tell me you've got something good for me.

[C]

All right, so as I was saying earlier, I listen to a lot of my books. I would say I read with my eyes only about 25% of books and at least 3, 4 I listen to. And the books that I find easiest to listen to are usually first person novels or memoirs because they're also spoken in the first person. And they almost then feel like listening to a long podcast, if that makes sense.

[B]

That totally makes sense. That's such a good way of looking at it. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. And so I listened to a lot of both of those types of books. And one I listened to recently was My Mama Cass by Owen Elliot Kugel. And this is written by Cass Elliott's daughter, Cass Elliott, who is the famous front lady for the 1960s group the Mamas and the Papas and Owen Elliot Kugel. She was quite young when her mother died and she decided, I want to learn all about my mom. I want to intersperse it with memories. I want to talk with her old bandmates. I want to look at historical texts, documents. I want to look at other people's memoirs that have been written from the 1960s and 70s and just paint a fuller picture of who my mom was and kind of get to know her and what her life was like, what her accomplishments were, what her insecurities were and so on. And it's just a beautiful tribute to her mom. We learn about her mom's political activism. We learn about how Mama Cass really had to be a strong person because she was constantly treated like a punchline as a fat lady. She was a fat lady who owned who she was, who took up space and who had a fantastic kind of sense of humor and charisma. She owned a room when she was in it. Her voice was phenomenal. She had a beautiful singing voice. And none of that mattered to me. The jokesters at the time. And so much of what Owen Elliott Kugel's trying to do is just say, my mom was all these other things. She's not, you know, just your punchline. She was all these other things too. And I love the sense of history in the book. I love the sense of love for her mom that really comes through on each page. And just she does such a great job of drawing a picture of what this time in America was, the struggles that people were facing, the struggles that women were fac and so on. But then also a lot of the things that were exciting at the time. And so I'm not the biggest Mamas and the Papas fan even. I mean, my biggest exposure to Mama Cass was as a little kid watching the Scooby Doo episode that Mama Cass. Do you remember Mama Cass was.

[B]

Oh yeah, uh huh. I think so. That's ringing a bell when you said that.

[C]

And that's how I discovered who Mama Cass was. Was as a little kid watching Scooby Doo and Mama Cass. That episode they would rerun all the time. Cause it was. Was a very popular episode of the show. But I remember just thinking, oh, she's so funny. And she had this kind of smoky voice. I've always liked broads with smoky voices like Kathleen Turner or Lauren Bacall, you know, those ladies who sound like broads. And Cass Elliott kind of had that voice. And so she was a great voice actor for Scooby Doo. But then, I mean, I also do like her music like California Dreamin' and you know, Dream a Little Dream. All the songs that she sang were really great. And you know, maybe check out some of the Mamas and the Papas music and read this book. Or, you know, I think if you just listen to a couple of the Mamas and the Papas songs and then read the book together. Her singing voice is so beautiful. I think it will just add a little something extra to reading the book, even if you don't know that much about Mama Cass.

[B]

Well, what made you. What drew you to pick up this book? You just like memoirs in general. You said you like listening to them, but how did you kind of pick this one?

[C]

Well, there was another book read last year, From Here to the Great Beyond. I believe it was called Where Riley. I thought it was pronounced Riley Coe, but maybe it's Riley Keogh. She is the daughter of Lisa Marie Presley, the granddaughter.

[B]

Oh, yes. Elvis, yes.

[C]

Oh, okay. The Pillow Fort Encyclopedia has a pronunciation guide, and it is Riley Keough. I'm so sorry, Riley. I never pronounce your name right. Riley Keough. And she wrote a beautiful tribute to her mom that is folded into her mom's attempt at writing a memoir. And her mom died before she finished her book. And so the book is kind of like both of them in conversation and finishing each other's sentences. And I thought it was such a beautiful book. I'm like, I'd be interested in reading another book where I'm seeing through someone else's eyes who somebody famous is. And I thought a daughter's perspective is really interesting because daughters aren't objective people by any means, and they bring their own baggage and so on, but they're also bringing their own love to the story. So I'm like, I would love to read another story like that. So that's what inspired me to pick it up.

[B]

Very cool. Okay. My Mama Cass. That is a fun one.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

What else do you have for us?

[C]

Well, I'll tell you a book that is on my to be read shelf, since you mentioned something on your to be read shelf. Kp as a sometimes New Yorker, I think you'll be curious about this book. You're kind of bi coastal, but this is a book called Best Offer Wins by Marissa Cascino. It's a novel about a person on the east coast who wants to get out of her tiny, cramped apartment and into a bigger property. And saves up enough money to do it, but keeps getting outbid by other people. And in a very desperate state. This character apparently begins doing some questionable things in their hopes to land themselves on the real estate ladder. This was recommended by a friend of mine who knows that I read Zillow I do it addictively, I do it irrationally, I do it viscerally. And so I also, I also watch those HGTV shows. So I'm totally in the right market to read a book like this.

[B]

Oh, I like that. I love Questionable Activity. I love a flawed main character. This sounds very fun.

[C]

Yeah, and I haven't started it yet. Like I said, it's on my to be read list, but it currently I think has a three month wait for here in my Brooklyn library.

[B]

Good for her. Okay, next on my line of books I'm looking at. Well, so for on my to be read list it's the next one and I'm on a time limit here is Wuthering Heights. Oh my gosh, I got to read before the movie.

[C]

The movie's coming out any second now.

[B]

I gotta go. Oh my God, I'm on a time limit here. I know. Well, I'll see how fast I can read. I am fast when I put my mind to it. But maybe I'll have to read the book afterwards. But it'll be near, it'll be soon and we'll see if I like it. That time period sometimes can be a bit meandering as the writing style in that time period sometimes is a little slow for me, but we'll see.

[C]

Yeah, it's not efficient writing.

[B]

It's flowery. It's romantic period. That's what we want.

[C]

It's wordy, it's very. Why say something in four words when you can say it in 40?

[B]

Yes, and this is, you know, I'm missing on some great classics because they just aren't exactly my style. The romantic period just never exactly hit me and I don't even know if Wuthering Heights is romantic period. Nobody be yelling right now. You have to go to sleep anyway, so you can't be getting your cortisol up. But that is what I'm thinking will be. Next up will be Wuthering Heights.

[C]

Can I just give you a little spoiler? It's not that much of a spoiler. It's like you'll see it in the first chapter. So one thing this book does, which is one of my pet peeves, is rather than just tell you the story, there's this guy who I think he's like hiking through bad weather and we have to follow this guy first and it's terrible weather. And then he happens upon a cottage. And then in the cottage he warms up and la da da da da da da. And then at the cottage the guy says, I have a story to tell you. And then that ends up being, well.

[B]

This is Frankenstein for sure.

[C]

That ends up being Wuthering Heights. And I'm like, why can't we just have Wuthering Heights without this whole thing?

[B]

It is interesting. Did Little Women do Little Women gets right into it.

[C]

Little Women gets right into it.

[B]

I think great Frankenstein does this also where you're like, oh, my gosh, they have a whole story that is not relevant for a second. And then it kind of ties in. But yes, they were doing that. It was an odd little story structure they did back then. Yeah.

[C]

I don't need it to be bookended. Just start the story. Let's get into it. That being said, I remember as a kid reading Wuthering Heights and thinking, oh, Heathcliff, I know, he's quite so brooding.

[B]

Quite the brooding. Which is really gonna. We'll see if it hits for me.

[C]

Okay, so you may or may not drop the sci fi book, but then you have so many good books to read next. You got the Wuthering Heights, you got Dante's Inferno, got all those other books on your shelf. So I think regardless, everybody will win in the end because as long as there's another book to read, you're always a winner. That's how I feel.

[B]

Well, I think with that, this winner is gonna go to bed. I will talk to you next time. Good night, Kristen.

[C]

Ah, sweet dreams, KP Dream of Heathcliff. Sa.

[A]

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