Podcast
The Non-Billable Podcast
Hosted by Non-Billable · EN
The Non-Billable Podcast takes UK legal professionals beyond the billable hour, bringing you interviews with top lawyers, law firm leaders, industry experts and legal tech innovators to uncover actionable insights on the business of law, career growth and the future of the industry.
Hosted by Oliver Attinger, a former finance lawyer at a leading City law firm, and brought to you by Non-Billable, the legal media platform for City lawyers, in-house counsel, and legal professionals.
39episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
How David Beech built Knights into a £200m law firm
2w ago00:47:47Tap to summarizeDavid Beech, CEO of listed law firm Knights, joins the podcast to discuss how he has built one of the UK's largest regional legal businesses since buying the firm in 2012. He explains why Knights has prioritised people and cash over traditional law firm metrics, how the business has grown through almost 30 acquisitions, and why he believes law firms should separate ownership from management.David also shares the thinking behind Knights' distinctive strategy. He discusses why the firm has no fee targets, why it manages through regional leadership rather than practice groups, and why culture is the first consideration when assessing acquisitions. The conversation explores external investment in law firms, drawing on David's experience of private equity backing and taking Knights public in 2018. He reflects on what it is like running a listed law firm, why he believes corporatisation is the long-term direction of the legal industry, and why minority investment may prove a more natural model for traditional partnerships than outright buyouts.Chapters00:01 Introduction00:50 Building Knights into the UK's largest regional legal business05:47 Why people and cash matter more than fee targets15:44 Rainmakers, culture and leading a collaborative law firm21:34 Why Knights has no ambition to open in London24:03 The acquisition playbook behind nearly 30 deals33:58 Lessons from private equity and taking Knights public38:42 Why more law firms won't follow Knights onto the stock market42:44 The future of external capital in the legal industryAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
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Inside Mayer Brown’s London private capital push
3w ago00:35:17Tap to summarizeDom Griffiths, London managing partner of Mayer Brown, joins the podcast to discuss the strategy behind one of the firm's strongest years in London. He explains why Mayer Brown has invested so heavily in private capital, how targeted lateral hiring is reshaping the practice and where he believes the firm can differentiate in an increasingly competitive transatlantic market.Dom also reflects on more than two decades at Mayer Brown, his journey from structured finance partner to London managing partner, and what he's learned about leading a large international partnership. He shares why consensus-building matters, how he approaches recruitment and why culture and client relationships remain at the heart of sustainable growth.The conversation also explores the changing shape of the legal market, from AI and private capital to transatlantic competition and law firm mergers. Dom explains why he believes technology will enhance, rather than replace, trusted advisers, and shares his views on what will separate the most successful firms over the next decadeChapters00:01 Introduction00:59 From structured finance partner to London managing partner05:18 Mayer Brown's place in the global legal market11:53 Building a private capital powerhouse in London18:46 The firm's approach to lateral hiring and growth22:11 Leading a global law firm partnership30:21 Transatlantic mergers and Mayer Brown's strategy33:21 AI, private capital and the future of Big LawAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
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Richard Medd on Browne Jacobson’s growth strategy
4w ago00:28:44Tap to summarizeRichard Medd, managing partner of Browne Jacobson, joins the podcast to discuss how the firm has doubled revenue over the past six years - revenue for the most recent financial year came in at a record £149m - and the strategy behind its recent growth. He explains why Browne Jacobson has invested heavily across its UK and Ireland network, the thinking behind its expanding London presence, and why he believes firms can be both ambitious and culture-driven.The conversation explores the firm's approach to lateral hiring, its growing private equity, technology and real estate practices, and why Medd sees London as an increasingly important part of the firm's long-term strategy rather than simply a shop window for clients. He also discusses Browne Jacobson's expansion into Ireland and how the firm thinks about international growth.We also discuss AI and legal technology, including the firm's rollout of Legora, how AI is changing the delivery of legal services, and why judgment and commercial context will remain critical skills for lawyers. Finally, Medd shares his views on external investment in law firms, why private capital is unlikely to transform the upper end of the UK legal market overnight, and what the next phase of growth looks like for Browne Jacobson.Chapters00:01 Introduction00:40 Richard Medd's journey to managing Browne Jacobson01:26 The strategy behind Browne Jacobson's rapid growth06:33 Why London has become central to the firm's ambitions15:01 Expanding into Ireland and what's next for the firm18:55 Rolling out AI across Browne Jacobson21:43 How AI will change legal services and lawyer training24:59 External investment and private capital in law firms28:13 Will a top UK law firm take external capital?About Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
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What Microsoft expects from its law firms in the AI era
Jul 1400:38:51Tap to summarizeRebecca Anderson, Microsoft's head of legal for EMEA, joins the podcast to discuss how the in-house function at one of the world's biggest tech companies is adapting to the AI era.She explains why Microsoft has overhauled its legal operating model, how AI is changing the role of lawyers, and why the function is increasingly becoming a strategic partner to the business rather than simply a legal adviser.The conversation explores how Microsoft is deploying AI across its own legal department, from AI-powered legal triage to contract drafting and decision-making tools. Anderson also shares how the company thinks about legal tech, why the operating model matters as much as the tools themselves, and how Microsoft's lawyers are using AI to move away from repetitive work towards higher-value strategic advice.We also discuss what Microsoft now expects from its external law firms in the age of AI, why AI fluency has become a baseline requirement, and how firms can differentiate themselves beyond simply adopting new technology. Finally, Anderson shares her thoughts on the future of the profession, the new legal roles emerging alongside AI, and the skills lawyers will need to thrive over the next decade.Chapters00:01 Introduction00:45 From private practice to leading Microsoft's EMEA legal team03:55 Rebuilding Microsoft's legal operating model for the AI era09:40 How Microsoft is using AI inside its own legal department18:00 Microsoft's legal tech strategy and the future of contract review19:40 What Microsoft now expects from its external law firms29:30 The changing role of the in-house lawyer35:25 What Microsoft looks for when hiring lawyers36:30 The future of legal work in the age of AIAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
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Sidley executive committee chair Brian Fahrney on London, talent and the global elite
Jun 3000:36:39Tap to summarizeBrian Fahrney, chair of Sidley Austin's executive committee, joins the podcast to discuss the firm's transformation into one of the fastest-growing US law firms in London. He explains why Sidley spent years investing in private equity, how the strategy reshaped its London office, and why the firm remains bullish on the London market.The conversation explores the growing importance of the "NYLON corridor", why US clients increasingly expect seamless transatlantic legal advice, and how Sidley thinks about growth, lateral hiring and building market-leading practices on both sides of the Atlantic.We also discuss AI, law firm culture and leadership, as well as why Fahrney believes the legal industry is consolidating into a smaller group of global firms with the scale to invest in talent, technology and client service. Finally, Fahrney shares his outlook for the next decade of Big Law and explains what he believes will separate the industry's winners from the rest.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:20 Sidley's growth story and Brian's path to executive committee chair04:46 Running a global law firm07:00 Why talent is critical to Sidley’s strategy11:56 How Sidley’s London office became a private capital platform15:46 The deliberate push into private equity17:49 Why the NYLON corridor matters24:16 Big Law consolidation and the firms pulling away29:08 Partnership structures, talent development and future leadersAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
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BCLP senior partner Segun Osuntokun on growth, mergers and weekend emails
Jun 2400:28:30Tap to summarizeSegun Osuntokun, senior partner at BCLP, joins the podcast to discuss leadership, firm strategy and what it takes to run a global law firm while continuing to practise as a partner. Having held senior leadership roles at the firm for more than seven years, he reflects on BCLP's recent return to growth and the long-term strategy behind it.The conversation explores the lessons learned from the merger between Berwin Leighton Paisner and Bryan Cave, why Osuntokun believes successful integrations must start with clients rather than firm economics, and his views on the current wave of transatlantic law firm combinations reshaping the market.We also discuss mental health, sustainable leadership and the demands of modern legal practice. Osuntokun shares his perspective on resilience, the importance of wellbeing in a people business, and the comments that sparked debate across the profession about sending non-urgent emails at weekends.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Chapters00:01 Introduction01:36 From Nigeria to City law and becoming BCLP senior partner04:26 BCLP's return to growth and the strategy behind it07:35 How BCLP positions itself in the transatlantic legal market09:12 Lessons from the Bryan Cave and BLP merger13:34 US versus UK law firm culture: more similar than different?15:47 Life as senior partner and balancing leadership with client work18:19 Weekend emails, mental health and sustainable leadership24:01 The future of Big Law, scale and BCLP's growth plansAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
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Private equity and the future of law firms | Podcast special
Jun 1601:08:28Tap to summarizePrivate equity investment in law firms has become one of the most talked-about trends in the legal industry. But how much is actually happening? Why are investors interested in legal services, and what does outside capital mean for the traditional partnership model?In this special edition of the podcast, Oliver is joined by Patrick Savage (Burford Capital), Peter Jackson (former managing partner of Hill Dickinson), Adil Taha (legal industry consultant), and Oscar Dean (Grant Thornton) for a candid discussion about the future of law firm ownership.The panel explores why legal has become attractive to investors, whether private equity activity has slowed in recent months, what makes a law firm investable, and how external capital can be used to fund growth, technology and talent. They also discuss consolidation, succession planning, the differences between legal and other professional services sectors, and why some investors are becoming more selective about the firms they back.Finally, the conversation turns to the biggest unanswered question in the market: exits. The panel debates whether private equity-backed law firms can deliver the returns investors need, who the eventual buyers might be, and whether outside capital will become a normal feature of the UK legal market over the next decade.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction01:30 Introductions & setting the scene04:40 Why investors are bullish on legal services12:55 Why legal is different from accounting and other professional services22:30 Has the private equity boom in law firms stalled?27:30 Why law firms seek outside capital, and what changes afterwards42:40 Talent, AI and the future law firm business model53:50 The exit problem: IPOs, secondary sales and investor returns1:03:50 Advice for law firm leaders and predictions for the futureAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
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The business of international arbitration with Boies Schiller’s Tim Foden
Jun 1000:36:02Tap to summarizeTim Foden is co-head of the international arbitration group at Boies Schiller Flexner in London. In this episode, he joins the podcast to discuss his path into arbitration, his time at Allen & Overy and Quinn Emanuel, and why he believes specialist disputes firms offer something fundamentally different to full-service law firms.The conversation explores the business of international arbitration, from commercial disputes between companies to high-stakes claims brought by investors against states. Tim explains how investment treaty arbitration works in practice, why resource nationalism continues to drive disputes around the world, and what it is like handling cases involving governments, mining projects and politically sensitive assets.Tim also shares his perspective on litigation funding, pushing back on the idea that funders encourage weak claims. He explains how funding has become a critical tool for many claimants, how funded cases are assessed, and why the UK Supreme Court’s PACCAR decision has had less impact on his practice than many predicted.Finally, we discuss London's position as a global disputes hub, the outlook for arbitration and collective actions, and Boies Schiller Flexner's growth plans in the UK as the firm continues to expand its London disputes practice.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction01:34 From courtroom dramas to international arbitration03:10 Allen & Overy, Quinn Emanuel and life at a disputes boutique05:06 Why specialist disputes firms think differently10:48 Joining Boies Schiller and rebuilding the London office16:16 The business of international arbitration and investor-state disputes22:30 Litigation funding, PACCAR and access to justice30:59 Why London remains the world's leading disputes hub33:55 The future of disputes and Boies Schiller's growth plans in LondonAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
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Why US firms are still winning the talent battle in London
May 2700:51:13Tap to summarizeHeadhunter Scott Gibson returns to the podcast for a wide-ranging conversation on what’s going on in the London partner market. As co-founder of Edwards Gibson, Scott tracks every major partner move in the City and has one of the clearest views of how the market is moving beneath the surface.We discuss why partner movement remains near record levels despite a tougher economic backdrop, the continued influence of US firms in London, and how areas like private capital, infrastructure and real estate are driving demand. Scott also explains why mergers create far more disruption than firms like to admit, and why that often leads to opportunities elsewhere in the market.The conversation also dives into the changing economics of partnership itself. Scott breaks down the rise of non-equity partnership structures, why UK firms face a “home turf disadvantage” against US rivals, and how compensation systems are evolving as firms compete for rainmakers.We also talk about whether partnership is still as attractive as it once was, what top firms are really looking for when they hire laterals, and why law firms today may be more fragile than many lawyers realise.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction02:26 The London partner recruitment market explained04:21 Why partner moves hit record highs in 202508:17 The hottest practice areas in Big Law right now11:37 Will restructuring finally boom in London?14:41 Are Magic Circle firms fighting back against US rivals?21:30 What law firms really want from lateral partner hires27:06 The rise of non-equity partnership in Big Law45:44 Which recent law firm mergers will actually workAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
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Inside Lawfront: The PE-backed law firm group betting big on consolidation
May 2000:35:01Tap to summarizeAxel Koelsch, COO of private equity-backed legal group Lawfront, joins the podcast to discuss how outside investment is reshaping the UK legal market and why he believes consolidation is still in its early stages.Koelsch explains how Lawfront’s model works in practice, why the group allows firms to retain their brands and leadership teams, and how central investment in areas like technology, operations and business services is becoming increasingly important as law firms face growing competitive pressure.The conversation also explores what lawyers often misunderstand about private equity, the operational lessons Koelsch brought from senior roles at firms including Freshfields and Addleshaw Goddard, and why the traditional partnership model can struggle to move quickly enough in a rapidly changing market.Finally, Koelsch discusses the future of the sector, including AI, scale, talent and why he expects further consolidation across both the regional and commercial law firm markets in the years ahead.The Non-Billable Podcast is sponsored by Legora. To find out more about Legora, visit: https://legora.com/ Today’s episode is also supported by Definely. To find out more about Definely, visit: https://www.definely.com/nonbillable Chapters00:01 Introduction01:30 Axel’s journey from lawyer to law firm COO03:25 Applying consultant-style strategy inside major law firms07:18 Why Axel joined Lawfront10:38 Inside Lawfront’s “national scale for regional leaders” model14:31 How Lawfront integrates firms without losing culture20:08 The Lawfront growth playbook: recruitment, pricing and EBITDA22:25 Why equity partnership is becoming less attractive to lawyers27:46 Why Axel believes consolidation in UK law is inevitableAbout Non-BillableNon-Billable is the media company for modern legal professionals across private practice, in-house and legal tech.Visit our website: https://www.nonbillable.co.uk
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