The Oath: Episode "Conversion" - A Deep Dive into Conversion Therapy and Medical Ethics

Released on April 30, 2025

Introduction

In the gripping fourth episode of The Oath, titled "Conversion," TVO delves into the contentious and emotionally charged subject of conversion therapy within the medical profession. This episode scrutinizes the case of Dr. Melvin Iscove, whose medical license was revoked in 2018 for alleged sexual abuse of two patients. As journalist Krisha Collier and co-producer Brennan Lefler investigate, they uncover unsettling connections between Iscove's practices and the discredited theories of a 1950s psychoanalyst, Dr. Edmund Burglar, who purported that homosexuality could be "cured."

Defining Conversion Therapy

Krisha Collier begins by exploring the nuanced definitions of conversion therapy, distinguishing between legal definitions and expert interpretations. She notes, “There are different definitions of conversion therapy. There's how it's laid out in the law, and then there's how experts see it” (03:19).

Historical Context and Legal Framework

Krisha provides a brief history lesson on the evolution of homosexuality within the medical community. She explains that in 1973, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) removed homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), marking a shift away from viewing it as a psychiatric condition. By 1987, it was permanently excised, and in 1998, the APA formally opposed conversion therapy.

Canadian law has also taken a stand. Conversion therapy was criminalized federally in 2022, with Ontario having banned it since 2015. According to Jordan Sullivan, a survivor and advocate, “Any messages or pressures to suppress, deny and change your identity...is considered a conversion practice” (05:18). However, Krisha highlights the complexity of legal definitions versus professional perceptions, stating, “The criminal breakdown is pretty complex... if the person has a concealed intent to enforce heterosexuality or cisgender identity, then it falls under conversion therapy” (05:45).

Personal Stories of Survivors

Jordan Sullivan's Journey

Krisha interviews Jordan Sullivan, a trans man who recounts his harrowing experiences with conversion practices. From a young age, Jordan struggled with his gender and sexual identity, subjected to religiously motivated self-conversion attempts. He shares, “Every morning I would lift up the covers to look between my legs to see if I had what I needed... it was really disconnecting from myself” (07:27).

Despite moments of relief, such as a supportive conversation that “saved” him, Jordan eventually succumbed to the relentless pressure of conversion therapy. It wasn’t until a pivotal moment of self-acceptance that Jordan embraced his true identity, stating, “I realized my understanding of what it meant to be homosexual needed to be changed... my inner homophobia was stopping me” (24:17).

Kate McCobb's Experience

Kate McCobb, another survivor residing in Portland, shares their story of being manipulated in therapy to suppress their sexuality. Initially seeking help for unspoken childhood traumas, Kate was diagnosed by a therapist with sexual abuse they didn't remember. This led to intensive therapy sessions aimed at “curing” their homosexuality. Kate reveals, “He was starting to kind of shame me about my sexual orientation... I definitely do not recall pushing back on that” (11:19).

The therapy extended into group sessions and forced relationships, culminating in alienation from family and persistent loneliness. Kate reflects, “There's been so much to untangle... it is still very difficult for me to have romantic relationships” (25:45).

Expert Insights on Conversion Therapy

Dr. Alan Peterkin's Perspective

Dr. Alan Peterkin, a psychiatrist at the University of Toronto, provides a critical analysis of conversion therapy. He emphasizes its ineffectiveness and harmful repercussions, noting, “It doesn't work... 1973 was when homosexuality was no longer considered a psychiatric diagnosis” (12:03). Dr. Peterkin outlines the severe consequences for individuals subjected to conversion practices, including substance abuse and increased vulnerability to predators.

Travis Salloway on Regulatory Failures

Travis Salloway from Simon Fraser University highlights the shortcomings of medical regulators in addressing conversion therapy. He points out the daunting nature of filing complaints and the lack of tangible support for victims: “To make a complaint to a medical regulator... is really a very daunting task” (16:25). Salloway cites a survey indicating that 10% of GBQT2 men in Canada experienced conversion practices, with 30% occurring within licensed healthcare settings (17:59).

Dr. Melvin Iscove's Controversial Practices

The episode pivots to Dr. Melvin Iscove’s case, where the College of Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario (CPSO) failed to explicitly label his actions as conversion therapy. Krisha notes, “The committee wrote that when patient Y initially started therapy with Iscove, he liked the idea he could be cured of his homosexual thoughts and feelings” (26:07). Despite the ambiguous terminology, the influence of Dr. Burglar’s theories, which heavily emphasized the "cure" of homosexuality, suggests that Iscove's practices align with conversion therapy's objectives.

Iscove denies practicing conversion therapy, asserting, “I told him that if he didn't want to be homosexual that he could undertake analysis... I made it clear that I don't force this on anybody” (14:22). However, the use of the term "cure" and adherence to outdated theories raise significant concerns about the ethical boundaries breached.

Regulatory Challenges and Future Implications

Krisha underscores the lack of clarity and action from medical regulators regarding conversion therapy. The CPSO claims commitment to ethical practices but lacks transparency on enforcement, as evident from their vague statement: “Doctors who engage in practices that contravene these principles may be subject to investigation and discipline” (16:42).

Travis Salloway advocates for more robust support systems for complainants and stricter enforcement mechanisms to prevent healthcare professionals from perpetrating conversion practices. The episode raises pressing questions about the efficacy of current regulatory frameworks and the urgent need for reform to protect vulnerable populations.

Conclusion

"Conversion" serves as a poignant exploration of the dark intersection between medical ethics and discredited therapeutic practices. Through survivor testimonies, expert analyses, and a critical examination of Dr. Iscove's case, the episode highlights the enduring threats of conversion therapy and the imperative for stringent regulatory oversight. As Krisha Collier aptly summarizes, “The language in Burglar's books does appear to be a buffet of conversion therapy samplers... we think that's part of the problem” (27:03). The conversation leaves listeners with a sense of urgency and anticipation for the forthcoming episodes that promise to delve deeper into the systemic issues within medical regulation.

Notable Quotes

• Krisha Collier (03:19): “There are different definitions of conversion therapy. There's how it's laid out in the law, and then there's how experts see it.”

• Jordan Sullivan (05:18): “Any messages or pressures to suppress, deny and change your identity... is considered a conversion practice.”

• Kate McCobb (11:19): “At that point, I definitely do not recall pushing back on that. I felt shame and I think I shut down.”

• Dr. Alan Peterkin (12:03): “It doesn't work... 1973 was when homosexuality was no longer considered a psychiatric diagnosis.”

• Travis Salloway (17:59): “Sometimes people get stuck in conversion practices because they actually were dealing with some other kind of psychological trauma...”

• Krisha Collier (26:07): “The language in Burglar's books does appear to be a buffet of conversion therapy samplers...”

This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions, personal narratives, expert insights, and critical examinations presented in "Conversion," providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the complexities surrounding conversion therapy and its implications within the medical field.