The Berglerians

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Oath – Episode: The Burglarians

Introduction

The Oath, a six-part investigative series by TVO Podcasts, delves into the complexities and ethical dilemmas surrounding the medical profession, specifically focusing on the case of Dr. Melvyn Iscove. In the third episode, titled "The Burglarians," hosts Krisha Collier and Brennan Lefler explore the obscure and controversial theories of Dr. Edmund Burglar, a 1950s psychoanalyst whose work has influenced Iscove's practice. This episode uncovers the intertwining paths of psychiatry, conversion therapy, and medical regulation in Ontario.

Unveiling Dr. Edmund Burglar

The investigation begins with Collier and Lefler uncovering the legacy of Dr. Edmund Burglar, a once-prominent psychoanalyst whose reputation has since diminished. Burglar's theories, particularly his stance on homosexuality, have resurfaced as a focal point in the scrutiny of Dr. Iscove's actions.

[00:36] Krisha Collier: "I mean, what? I did not imagine any of this was possible."

Burglar's influence is primarily through his work in psychoanalysis and his controversial views on sexuality. Despite his extensive contributions, including coining the term "writer's block," Burglar remains a largely forgotten figure except for his connection to Iscove.

Interviews with Followers of Burglarian Therapy

The episode features in-depth interviews with individuals who have been influenced by Burglar's methodologies. One such interviewee, Roger Hollander, has utilized burglarian therapy for over four decades.

[05:19] Roger Hollander: "He was a giant in the burglar world. He wrote the introduction to some of the books, and so that's how I knew him."

Hollander explains the intricate layers of burglarian interpretation, aiming to identify and alleviate underlying causes of suffering. This therapeutic approach, while effective for some, raises ethical concerns given its foundational theories.

Additionally, mental health counselor Peter Michelson from Michigan discusses his long-term commitment to Burglar's methods, highlighting the persuasive depth of Burglar's techniques despite their outdated premises.

[08:18] Brennan Lefler: "About earlier, I find touching a lot of people, but even those of us who are relatively healthy can still have times when we get tangled up in those kind of emotions and struggle to free ourselves, to get beyond it and not to have those kind of painful feelings linger."

The Connection to Dr. Melvin Iscove

Central to the episode is the question of whether Iscove's alleged misconduct is influenced by Burglar's controversial theories. Although Iscove denies wrongdoing, the committee's judgment hints at his possible alignment with Burglarian ideas, particularly regarding the treatment of homosexuality.

[19:02] Krisha Collier: "The discipline committee that heard the allegations against Izcove didn't say he was performing, didn't say Burglar was either. Izcove denied any wrongdoing... it commented on the fact that Izcove became evasive in responding to questions about whether homosexuality should be considered an illness or whether it could be cured."

This connection raises red flags about the potential misuse of psychiatric authority and the ethical implications of applying outdated and discredited theories in modern practice.

Controversial Theories on Homosexuality

Dr. Edmund Burglar's work prominently featured attempts to "cure" homosexuality, a practice now widely condemned as conversion therapy. Burglar believed homosexuality was a condition that could be treated and even cured within a short period through psychoanalytic methods.

[15:07] Peter Michelson: "Do you think that Burglar would have changed his mind, change with the times?"

[16:09] Krisha Collier: "Even at the 1958 lecture in New York, which was about creativity, Burglar brought it up... It goes on to tell the audience that gay men are in reality simply scared to death of women."

These views are deeply offensive and harmful, contributing to the stigmatization and emotional suffering of LGBTQ+ individuals. The episode highlights how such theories, though rooted in past beliefs, continue to influence certain therapeutic practices.

Impact on Patients and Medical Regulation

The case of Dr. Iscove underscores the critical role of medical regulators in protecting patients from unethical practices. The revocation of Iscove's license brings to light the shortcomings of Ontario's medical regulatory body in addressing and preventing abuses of trust within the psychiatric profession.

An unnamed expert stresses the ongoing need to combat these harmful practices:

[20:12] Unnamed Expert: "There's so much work that needs to be done to ensure that these practices aren't happening. A good deal of people who go through it get caught up in suicidal ideation because it doesn't work unless you're really good at denial and suppression."

Despite the illegality of conversion therapy in Canada, the episode reveals its persistence in various settings, including homes, schools, and medical offices, highlighting a significant gap in enforcement and awareness.

Personal Reflections and Ethical Dilemmas

Through interviews, the hosts explore the personal struggles of those who have engaged with burglaryan therapy. Roger Hollander, despite rejecting Burglar's views on homosexuality, acknowledges the efficacy of the methodology in alleviating his own suffering.

[13:46] Roger Hollander: "Burglar's work had to deal with suffering, helping people who are suffering... The fact that he used that methodology to deal with homosexuality, to me, doesn't negate the legitimacy or the efficacy of the methodology as I used it on myself."

This presents a complex ethical dilemma: separating therapeutic effectiveness from the morally reprehensible foundations of some of its principles. The episode prompts listeners to consider how deeply ingrained and influential such theories can be, even when their ethical standing is severely compromised.

Conclusion and Future Implications

The Burglarians culminates by linking past therapeutic practices to present-day abuses, raising urgent questions about the integrity of psychiatric practices and the safeguarding of patient welfare. As the series progresses, it promises to further investigate the ramifications of Dr. Iscove's actions and the ongoing threat of conversion therapy in contemporary Canada.

[20:26] Krisha Collier: "Even though it's now illegal, the practice is still happening in Canada."

The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the enduring impact of unethical medical practices and the necessity for vigilance in medical regulation to prevent the erosion of patient trust and safety.

Notable Quotes

• Krisha Collier: "I just couldn't believe what I saw." [00:32]

• Roger Hollander: "Burglar's work had to deal with suffering, helping people who are suffering." [13:46]

• Unnamed Expert: "There's so much work that needs to be done to ensure that these practices aren't happening." [20:12]

Key Takeaways

• Dr. Edmund Burglar's Legacy: An influential yet obscure psychoanalyst whose controversial theories on homosexuality have left a lasting negative impact.

• Conversion Therapy Concerns: Despite being outlawed, conversion therapy persists in various forms, necessitating stronger regulatory oversight.

• Medical Regulation Failures: The revocation of Dr. Iscove's license highlights potential weaknesses in Ontario’s medical regulatory framework.

• Ethical Dichotomy in Therapy: Effective therapeutic methods can still be rooted in unethical principles, complicating the evaluation of their use.

• Ongoing Investigation: The series continues to shed light on the intersection of medical ethics, patient trust, and regulatory responsibility.

The Oath effectively combines investigative journalism with personal narratives to explore the profound ethical challenges within psychiatry, urging listeners to advocate for stronger protections against abuse and unethical practices in the medical field.

Transcript

[Krisha Collier]

You are listening. You're listening. You are listening. You're listening to a TVO Today with TVO Today. TVO Today podcast. A listener note. The following podcast contains chorus and discriminatory language and sensitive themes which may not be suitable for younger audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Previously on the Oath. I just happened to look online and.

[Brennan Lefler]

I just googled Melvin Iscove.

[Krisha Collier]

Bam. I could not believe what I saw.

[Roger Hollander]

What?

[Krisha Collier]

I mean, what? I did not imagine any of this was possible.

[Dr. Edmund Burglar]

He had invited me to his home and we were in his bedroom and we were getting undressed and I saw myself in the mirror and I thought, you know, this isn't who you are.

[Krisha Collier]

When did he introduce you to Dr. Edmund Burglar and his theories?

[Dr. Edmund Burglar]

I would say within the first three months. The fact that he had written the foreword to his book suggested to me that he was a student of Burglar lock, stock and barrel.

[Peter Michelson]

So look at this book. The title is Counterfeit. Sex, Homosexuality, Impotence, Frigidity. So I guess Izkov gave one of them that book.

[Krisha Collier]

So one of the questions we're gonna have to look at down the line is, is it appropriate to give Burglar's material to patients in this day and age, or even in the late 2000s?

[Dr. Edmund Burglar]

Ergler's theories about homosexuality, I think, were part and parcel of conversion therapy. He claims to have cured a number of homosexuals over the years. I even asked Iscove if he had cured any homosexuals of their quote, unquote condition.

[Krisha Collier]

Last spring, I discovered an old audio recording from a 1958 lecture at the Great hall of the Cooper Union. It's a famous venue in New York City that's hosted some of the biggest names in American history, like US Presidents Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt and Barack Obama.

[Professor Fairchild]

We continue with our program on psychological aspects of creativity.

[Krisha Collier]

The featured speaker on the tape was a prominent psychoanalyst with an impressive resume. Listen for it. You might recognize the name.

[Professor Fairchild]

I've been a lecturer here in New York at the Psychoanalytic Institute. He's a member of a large number of important societies and has published about 240 papers in at least 11 different countries of the world. Delighted that he has been able to come back here to Cooper Union to speak on our topic. Dr. Edmund Berglar.

[Dr. Edmund Burglar]

Thank you, Professor Fairchild, for your friendly introduction.

[Krisha Collier]

Ladies and gentlemen, this might sound strange, but producer Brennan Lefler and I were really excited to hear Dr. Edmund Burglar's voice. We had been searching for any trace of him for a long time. Dr. Burglar's name came up a lot in Dr. Melvin Izko's hearing. So we wanted to learn more about Berglar to get a better sense of how his theories actually work. Finally, we found the audio buried in the online archives of the library at Buffalo State University. Over the decades, Burglar's reputation has pretty much faded to dust. We would never have heard his name if not for Dr. Izkov. Other than the books Burglar wrote, we can't seem to find much information about him. What we did find, though, is a small group of loyal followers who were eager to talk. But there were a couple of things they weren't really happy to talk about.

[Brennan Lefler]

I just don't want to discuss what Burglar wrote about homosexuality. I just thought he was somewhat misguided there.

[Krisha Collier]

When you came across the CPSO judgment, or rather the whole ISCO being in.

[Roger Hollander]

The news, my first reaction was, oh, shit.

[Krisha Collier]

Why?

[Roger Hollander]

Well, it's just a body blow to the world of Burglar.

[Krisha Collier]

For TVO today, this is the oath. I'm Krisha Collier. This is episode three, the Burglarians. On a windy afternoon in May 2023, I'm walking up to Roger Hollander's house. He's one of a handful of burglarians we could find, and luckily for us, he lives in Toronto. I found Roger through a blog he wrote about burglarian psychoanalysis and how it helped him. As we sat down in the living room, it's obvious he's kind of a burglar connoisseur.

[Roger Hollander]

Yeah. In fact, if you turn around, you'll see a pile of my burglar books.

[Krisha Collier]

Oh, wow.

[Roger Hollander]

That's not all. I have some more downstairs.

[Krisha Collier]

By my count, there are at least 12 books stacked on the table behind me. Roger's been a patient of burglarian therapy for more than 40 years. For the record, Izkov was not his therapist. It doesn't seem like Burglar's methods are used in clinical settings that much anymore. So I asked Roger to run me through how the treatment works as he learned it. Sitting in his faded recliner, he gives me a sample, reciting what is known as an interpretation.

[Roger Hollander]

Okay, here we go. It's five Layer interpretation, layer one. I wish to be passive. A gimme. I wish to be. And feel refused, beaten, hurt, rejected.

[Krisha Collier]

As Roger recites the interpretation, I flip through the handouts he's given me. They're old and weathered, deftly written with a typewriter. The pages are filled with sayings, almost like A mantra. A big part of it deals with what Burglar called psychic masochism.

[Roger Hollander]

I'm trying to get the right language reproaches me for the masochistic wish to be in. Phil refused.

[Krisha Collier]

The goal of the interpretations, as Roger was taught, is to identify the underlying cause of his unhappiness in the moment so he can consciously choose to break the cycle and move past it. Roger suffers from chronic pain and mobility issues. He says the sayings help him cope with it.

[Roger Hollander]

The whole idea is to alleviate suffering. That's why you go to a therapist, because you want to alleviate suffering.

[Krisha Collier]

Does it subside the anxiety? Does it subside the frustration?

[Roger Hollander]

I have to work hard not to feel sorry for myself. Any feeling of pity, that takes care of that because I just rest and say it's my reality.

[Brennan Lefler]

Hello.

[Peter Michelson]

Hi, is that Peter Michelson?

[Brennan Lefler]

Yes, it is. Hi. Hi, Brennan.

[Peter Michelson]

Hi, how you doing today?

[Krisha Collier]

Burglar's work is complicated, so to get a clearer picture, Brennan reached out to Peter Michelson, who is a mental health counselor based in Michigan. He's been a follower of burglar since the 80s.

[Brennan Lefler]

I feel like I've sort of been a translator burglar because it's really difficult to read him in the original.

[Krisha Collier]

The way Michelson sees it, people unconsciously replay unresolved emotions from childhood feelings, like being deprived, helpless, rejected, abandoned and betrayed. Those feelings don't just magically go away when you grow up. Michelson says Burglar's analysis helps people recognize and overcome those self destructive patterns. It's just like what Roger was talking.

[Brennan Lefler]

About earlier, I find touching a lot of people, but even those of us who are relatively healthy can still have times when we get tangled up in those kind of emotions and struggle to free ourselves, to get beyond it and not to have those kind of painful feelings linger.

[Krisha Collier]

Michelson uses this treatment with his clients and on himself too. For years, he had been struggling with his own issues. He says other types of therapies he had tried weren't getting the results he wanted. Then he came across a therapist who used burglarian methods.

[Brennan Lefler]

Somehow it felt like I wasn't getting to the heart of the matter. I believe the burglarian approach helped me to go deeper, clear up a lot of the more neurotic symptoms that I was struggling with.

[Krisha Collier]

What was it about Burglar's theories that. That you've essentially committed a good portion of your life to?

[Roger Hollander]

Well, basically that it works for me. It works for me. My biggest areas of conflict have been in marriages. I'VE had four marriages. I was married to good people, and yet there was a lot of conflict.

[Krisha Collier]

I've been speaking with Roger on and off for quite a while. He's had a really interesting life. Roger is American. He became a political activist in the 1960s when he was a student at the University of California at Berkeley. He got involved in the civil rights movement. He protested against the Vietnam War. Later, after a series of twists and turns, Roger ended up in Canada. That's where he was introduced to burglarian therapy. It was 1979. A romantic relationship had gone sour. He had a really hard time getting.

[Roger Hollander]

Over was very traumatic for me. I had a lot of emotional pain over it. And we remained friends. And she said she had a really good experience with a physician who did psychotherapy.

[Krisha Collier]

Turns out the doctor Roger went to see was trained by Dr. Benjamin Wintrob, who, you may remember, was also Izcov's mentor. In fact, Windtroub's name appears in the handout I'm holding. And that's the thing about burglarians. It's kind of like that Hollywood game Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon. Except in the world of burglarians, there usually seems to be only a degree or two of separation between them. It's a pretty small circle. We saw it again with Michelson. He told Brennan he'd also been in contact with Wintrob.

[Brennan Lefler]

I exchanged letters with him maybe 30 years ago or more. He invited me to do some sessions, but I already had my own therapist in that regard, so we never did meet. But from what I understood, he was quite a gentleman.

[Krisha Collier]

Wintrob and Izcove must have thought Burglar's work was very important because they seemed to have put in a lot of time to keep his legacy going. You see, the two of them immersed themselves in the Edmund and Marianne Berglar Psychiatric Foundation, a US charity dedicated to preserving Burglar's ideas. Wintrop started a similar organization in Toronto. Eventually, Izcov would become prominent in both.

[Roger Hollander]

He was a giant in the burglar world. He wrote the introduction to some of the books, and so that's how I knew him.

[Brennan Lefler]

Iskov had actually quite good material there and describing Burglar's work pretty accurately. So I had actually rather admired him. I didn't know him at all, hadn't spoken to him.

[Krisha Collier]

Like Izkof, Michelson never met Burglar, and he didn't know much about Burglar's backstory. What he knew was similar to what's written on the bio page of one of Burglar's books. Essentially, he was from Austria and went to medical school at the University of Vienna. He worked at the psychoanalytic Freud Clinic for about a decade, starting in 1927. Burglar fled to the United States in the late 1930s when Nazi Germany annexed Austria. He set up a private practice in New York City and he died there in 1962 at the age of 62.

[Brennan Lefler]

It's just absolutely amazing. Someone had written hundreds of articles in professional journals and had a little bit when he died in the New York Times, but nobody wanted to touch his stuff.

[Peter Michelson]

You know, what do you think it is that no one seems to know about who he is?

[Brennan Lefler]

People just had an instinctive aversion to hearing about the possibility that so much self defeating activity would be going on inside us without us being conscious of it. It's just so offensive.

[Roger Hollander]

Plus the elephant in the room we haven't mentioned yet. Burglars being in the forefront of believing that you could cure homosexuality.

[Krisha Collier]

To be fair, Burglar's work is about more than just sexuality. For example, he's widely credited for being the first person to coin the term writer's block. But still, sitting here with Roger, I'm curious how he makes peace with some of Burglar's outdated views. See, Roger considers himself an ally. He says years ago he was the executive director of an agency that advocates for two SLGBTQ communities in Toronto. How do you reconcile his theories with your own code of ethics?

[Roger Hollander]

Burglar's work had to deal with suffering, helping people who are suffering. It was generally thought of in those days that if you were gay, you were suffering. My guess is that Berger looked at that and said, well, I'm going to apply this to homosexuality. Because he applied it to writers, he applied it to all forms of sexuality. There's a book on gambling. The fact that he used that methodology to deal with homosexuality, to me, doesn't negate the legitimacy or the efficacy of the methodology as I used it on myself.

[Krisha Collier]

I mean, it's hard to speculate given we've never met him, but there is still a bias that he would have had towards homosexuality in order to interpret.

[Roger Hollander]

Yes, of course.

[Krisha Collier]

It'S a bit of a touchy subject for Roger. He firmly rejects Burglar's views on homosexuality. So does Michelson. He really didn't want to talk about it at all.

[Peter Michelson]

So you don't want to talk about his theories about homosexuality because.

[Brennan Lefler]

No, yeah, no, I, I basically disagree with what he wrote. And I'm unhappy that he did get into that material. And I really don't understand it.

[Peter Michelson]

Do you think that Burglar would have changed his mind, change with the times?

[Brennan Lefler]

Oh, I think so. As I understand it, he was quite a compassionate person.

[Peter Michelson]

You are quite personally invested in Burglar's legacy. Is that fair to say? Is that because he helped you so much back?

[Brennan Lefler]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dr. Edmund Burglar]

Okay.

[Brennan Lefler]

And also because I see how it is benefiting my own clients.

[Krisha Collier]

But Burglar did seem to write a great deal about homosexuality. Time magazine wrote features on him at least twice in the 1950s. Both articles summarize Burglar's findings on the subject. One was about his book 1000 Homosexuals Conspiracy of Silence or Curing and Deglamorizing Homosexuals. On the inside jacket it says, if treated appropriately, homosexuality has a, quote, excellent prognosis and is curable in the short period of 8 months in psychiatric psychoanalytic treatment, provided the homosexual inwardly wishes to change.

[Dr. Edmund Burglar]

Now, what is a homosexual? If you ask a homosexual what he is, he will tell you.

[Krisha Collier]

Even at the 1958 lecture in New York, which was about creativity, Burglar brought it up. Just a heads up. The next bit of tape could be upsetting.

[Dr. Edmund Burglar]

If you can imagine the worst heterosexual couple you know, then you have a faint idea what the best homosexual couple is. Why? Because there are constant conflict of injustice, collective of masochism, with the result that after a few years, these people give up living together and are going cruising, as they call it, meaning five minute relationship of constantly changing nature.

[Krisha Collier]

And there's more. He goes on to tell the audience that gay men are in reality simply scared to death of women. As a result, they run in the other direction, towards the same sex, looking for safety.

[Dr. Edmund Burglar]

If you tell this to a homosexual, he will be absolutely furious with you and will say that you don't understand him, that it is all nonsense, that homosexual are just homosexual and nothing else. They are not. They are fugitive from women and scared to death of women.

[Krisha Collier]

Of course, hearing all this today is alarming, but Burglar's analysis wouldn't really be as big of an issue if it stayed in the past. The only reason we're talking about him is because of Izco. And we can't help but wonder how Burglar's methods influence Izco's behavior with his two accusers, if at all.

[Brennan Lefler]

I just can't see any connection at all with Burglar's work. And there's nothing that Burglar wrote that would account for why Isgrove would allegedly do what he's accused of having done.

[Roger Hollander]

But you see, I don't see any link. I think it's a coincidence, just an unfortunate coincidence that there was a sexual abuse case involving a Burglarian analyst and Burglar happened to be a convert. See, Burglar practiced conversion therapy. We don't know that mel is coded. There's nothing in that judgment that I read that suggested that he was practicing conversion therapy.

[Krisha Collier]

If there was a person in 2023, I'll use myself as a case example. I go see a psychiatrist. I'm struggling with my sexuality. I. I mean, if that doctor or psychiatrist is using Burglarian theories to help me deal with my sexuality.

[Roger Hollander]

Not with your sexuality, with your suffering.

[Krisha Collier]

Yeah, but even in your own words, just like a few moments ago, you said that Burglar was in fact doing conversion therapy, and Burglar was wrong.

[Roger Hollander]

And I don't condone it. And I think today, if he were alive today, he would admit he was wrong. But that doesn't mean what I experienced was wrong. It helped me.

[Krisha Collier]

My conversation with Roger was very interesting. It was the first time someone actually came out and suggested to us that Burglar was doing so called conversion therapy. And he's right. The discipline committee that heard the allegations against Izkov didn't say he was performing, didn't say Burglar was either. Izcov denied any wrongdoing, which we will get into in an upcoming episode. But the committee did make a whole meal out of Burglar's theories. In the decision, it commented on the fact that Izcove became evasive in responding to questions about whether homosexuality should be considered an illness or whether it could be cured. It questioned why Izcove refused to acknowledge he agreed with Burglar on these views, despite Izcov admitting he devoted his professional life to studying and applying Burglar's theories. Whether the committee intended it or not, the way the decision was written leaves an impression Iskov may have been wading into the conversion therapy pool. Still, that claim would fall outside the scope of the case. It did get us wondering, though. What was Izcov doing? It certainly raised a few red flags.

[Unnamed Expert]

There's so much work that needs to be done to ensure that these practices aren't happening. A good deal of people who go through it get caught up in suicidal ideation because it doesn't work unless you're really good at denial and suppression.

[Krisha Collier]

And that's not change to better understand. So called conversion therapy. We reached out to experts and survivors. They told us even though it's now illegal, the practice is still happening in Canada.

[Unnamed Expert]

It happens in homes, it happens in schools, it happens in doctors offices and psychiatrists offices. It's everywhere.

[Krisha Collier]

That's on the next episode of the Oath. The Oath is hosted, written and co produced by me, Krisha Collier. Brennan Lefler is a co producer and writer. Sound design and editing by Damien Kearns. Editing and technical support from Matthew o' Meara. Theme music by Alison Layton Brown. Special thanks to the Berry and Lori Greene Family Charitable Trust who made this podcast possible for tvo. Katie o' Connor is the Managing Editor of Podcasts and Digital Video. Lori Few is the Executive Producer of Digital. John Ferry is Vice President, Programming and Content. Thank you for listening.