The Observable Unknown

Episode: Alexandra Gersten Vassilaros
Host: Dr. Juan Carlos Rey
Date: July 13, 2025

Overview

In this episode of The Observable Unknown, Dr. Juan Carlos Rey invites playwright, author, and Make Meaning Workshop founder Alexandra Gersten Vassilaros for an in-depth exchange on the intersection of grief, healing, and creative expression. The conversation weaves personal narrative with spiritual and psychological inquiry, highlighting Alexandra’s journey from personal loss to facilitating transformative writing workshops for those grappling with grief. Together, they examine how writing, especially in judgment-free community settings, can catalyze deep self-discovery and resilience—bridging scientific insight and mystical experience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Alexandra’s Path: From Grief to Guiding Others

• Catalyst for Her Workshop
  • Alexandra recounts how volunteering at the Bowery Mission during her husband's battle with cancer exposed her to women facing multiple crises. She recognized a shared vulnerability and the need for authentic community.
  • “I was so caught up in my own head, I thought I might want to volunteer just to see what I can see. These women are all in struggle. I probably have a lot in common with them.” (04:22)
• Writing as the Chosen Modality
  • The workshops evolved organically from reading poems and using writing prompts. She avoided discussion and feedback to bypass participants’ defenses, fostering a space for genuine self-exploration.
  • “We were writing, we weren’t talking…we move below the layer of that. And the prompts guide us…to a more…a deeper place, a more…a private place.” (07:05)

The Mechanics and Philosophy of the Make Meaning Workshop

• No Judgment, No Feedback Environment
  • Workshops emphasize listening and bearing witness rather than discussion or critique. This prevents participants from retreating into ego or defensiveness, creating what Alexandra calls “a kind of holy space.”
  • “We don’t interrupt each other…we hold the space in a kind of holy way. We deeply witness each other. We’re listening without needing to prepare to speak, which is a really big relief.” (13:55)
• Universal Access to Writing
  • Alexandra underscores that no special training is needed—writing is for everyone, not just “writers.” She celebrates personal language and narrative as transformative tools.
  • “Here’s the pen. This is your hand. You can write. Maybe somebody told you it’s…only for writers, but it’s not. It’s for all of us.” (18:35)

Grief, Creativity, and Resilience

• Writing as Stabilization and Self-Kindness
  • Alexandra views writing as a means to stabilize tumultuous emotions and “hijacked” thinking after traumatic loss, approaching oneself with mercy and forgiveness.
  • “We’re trying to stabilize hectic thinking, frightened thinking, hijacked emotion…with great forgiveness and great kindness…with mercy for all that we’ve been through.” (11:09–12:07)
• Grief as Complexity, Not a Linear Process
  • She challenges the “stages” model, asserting that grief is a “frontier”—fluid, cyclical, and deeply individual. Closure is not her goal; rather, she values staying alive and responsive to ongoing change.
  • “I think I’m in all stages all the time…Life is too lively to be contained in some of these notions…” (45:04)
• Asking Beautiful, Unanswerable Questions
  • Alexandra, citing the poet David Whyte, asserts that loss begets profound questions rather than neat answers. The spaciousness in these questions fosters philosophical reflection and resilience.
  • “A beautiful question almost doesn’t need an answer. It almost makes space for itself. And that spaciousness is even a relief.” (36:26)

Influences: Literature, Theater, and Ritual

• Early Literary and Theatrical Influence
  • Alexandra describes how exposure to plays by Edward Albee, Arthur Miller, Lorraine Hansberry, and Tennessee Williams shaped her appreciation for the complexity of human character and contradiction.
  • “When I saw Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf, the complexity of those characters reminded me of some of the people that I lived with…wonderfully complicated people.” (25:29)
• Personal and Cultural Rituals
  • Rituals such as lighting candles for the dead in her Greek Orthodox heritage provide metaphor and comfort; Alexandra believes we can all create our own sacred rituals to process grief.
  • “I can burn incense in my own home and I might get that…I can create my own holy space. I do it in the workshops.” (43:37)

The Power of Merciful Self-Compassion

• Mercy as a Guiding Principle
  • The phrase “Mercy me” encapsulates Alexandra’s message of self-forgiveness and tender self-care during the healing journey.
  • “Some of the work we do is an invitation to mercy. Mercy me. Let me mercy me. I’ve been through so much. Let me help me to mercy me.” (49:45)

Family, Community, and Ongoing Love

• Intergenerational Impact
  • Alexandra shares how her son acknowledged her resilience ten years after her husband’s passing, affirming the ongoing transformation and the deepening of love beyond physical loss.
  • “I’ve helped to communicate to the boys... to inspire them to use language, to explore and expose more of themselves.” (47:46)
• From Grief to Love Counseling
  • She advocates for focusing on love, not just loss, framing herself as a “love counselor” as much as a grief guide.
  • “I want a grief counselor to also be a love counselor because the reason I’m grieving so much is because I love so much.” (47:32)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Grief and Writing
  • “Grief is not a feeling, it’s a frontier…it’s like climbing into a covered wagon…carrying on and going somewhere unfamiliar.” – Alexandra, (31:31)
• On Community Healing
  • “When you’re writing about [love] with a lot of other people who’ve lost people, you realize, oh, you are not alone… In community…can we restore our own kind of heartbeat, our own interest in life?” – Alexandra, (35:54)
• On the Uniqueness of Loss
  • “No two people will lose the same way. We might gain the same way. But the loss is what…dignifies us.” – Dr. Rey, (12:28)
• On Judgment-Free Expression
  • “Wouldn’t it be freeing not to have so much feedback all the time?... So I could explore more, not be sharply rebuked or touted.” – Alexandra, (10:43)
• On Finding the Sacred
  • “We all have this potential to create that which is sacred to us… I can create my own holy space. I do it in the workshops. And I think all of us can do that originally, as originally as we want to do it.” – Alexandra, (43:16)
• On Self-Kindness in Grief
  • “With mercy for all that we’ve all been through. Because there’s nobody on the planet who gets to live a longish life…before they understand that challenge, crisis, interruption, disappearance is part of the human experience.” – Alexandra, (12:12)
• On Beautiful Questions
  • “A beautiful question almost doesn’t need an answer… It makes us all philosophers.” – Alexandra, (36:26)

Important Timestamps

• [02:51] Alexandra’s origin story: Volunteering during her husband’s illness
• [06:53] Workshop method: Writing, not talking; neutral space for expression
• [11:09] Writing as a tool for inner mercy and stabilization
• [13:55] On holding “holy space” and deep listening
• [18:35] Accessibility of writing: “You can write. No training necessary.”
• [25:29] Early influences from theater and complex characters
• [31:31] Grief as a frontier, not a linear feeling
• [35:54] Power of community in healing
• [36:26] “Beautiful questions” as spaciousness for the grieving mind
• [43:37] Creating your own rituals and sacred space
• [45:04] On refusing closure and living in ongoing transformation
• [47:32] Advocating for “love counseling” as well as grief counseling
• [49:45] “Mercy me” as an invitation to self-compassion

Connect with Alexandra & the Workshop

• Website: makemeaningworkshop.com
• Instagram: @makemeaningworkshop
  • “There’s a lot of content. I’ve written every single word myself…come there.” (51:55)
• Other Workshops:
  “I also do a workshop called ‘I love you but be elsewhere’ for people who are moving through relationship struggles or…codependency...” (52:17)

Tone & Takeaways

True to the podcast’s vision, this episode gracefully bridges rigorous self-inquiry and mystical insight. Alexandra’s compassion and candor make even the most daunting aspects of grief approachable, offering listeners language and practical methods for transforming suffering into self-awareness, community connection, and even awe. Writing becomes not just a tool for healing but a sacred act—a means of engaging with the “observable unknown” within each of us.

Closing Thought

“Everyone’s journey is different and everyone’s healing is unique, like a fingerprint…what appears unknowable often stands right before us, waiting to be observed through both the lens of science and the wisdom of spirit.” – Dr. Juan Carlos Rey (54:08)