Podcast Summary: The Observable Unknown
Host: Dr. Juan Carlos Rey
Guest: Brownell Landrum, author of The Art and Science of Wishing
Date: December 25, 2025
Episode Theme: The Art and Science of Wishing – Exploring Wishing as a Structured Act of Consciousness
Episode Overview
This episode delves into the practice of wishing—not as mere superstition or naïve hope, but as a unique and disciplined mental act that bridges science and spirituality. Dr. Juan Carlos Rey and guest Brownell Landrum explore wishing’s psychological, neurological, and social dimensions, considering its place between agency and surrender, science and uncertainty. The discussion orbits around Landrum’s new work, The Art and Science of Wishing, focusing on the cognitive mechanics, rituals, potential pitfalls, and communal power of wishing.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
Distinguishing Wishing from Goals and Prayer
- Landrum explains the categories:
- Goals: Within personal control; concrete and actionable.
- Prayer: Surrender to a higher power when control is relinquished.
- Wishing: Occupies the space between; both personal and transpersonal, involving a balance of agency and surrender.
- Quote:
"A goal is something in your control...a prayer is something usually that out of your control...when it comes to a wish, it’s kind of both personal and transpersonal."
— Brownell Landrum [02:30]
The Necessity of Uncertainty in Wishing
- Uncertainty is essential, not a flaw: Wishing activates openness and receptivity by acknowledging the limits of control.
- Four possible responses to a wish: Yes, no, wait, or something better. Each response holds nuanced value, with “no” often being information or a prompt to reassess.
- Quote:
"When you kind of start understanding those four responses...it opens up your mind to other possibilities that you might not have thought of."
— Brownell Landrum [03:31]
Wishing and the Brain
- Neuroscientific underpinnings: Wishing engages future-oriented cognition, motivation, and emotional regulation. It leverages repetition, the default mode network, and neuroplasticity.
- The “Three P’s” formula: Wishing, when approached with peace, positivity, and purpose, can create neurobiological shifts and foster resilience.
- Quote:
"The neuroplasticity says the more you repeat something, the more you become a pattern...when you’re making your wish...peaceful, positive, and purposeful, that becomes a neurobiological shift."
— Brownell Landrum [06:25]
Wishing and Narrative Selfhood
- Impact on identity and story: The way a person wishes mirrors and shapes their self-concept and narrative. Examples from Landrum’s semi-autobiographical novel illustrate how wishes can drive plot, growth, and reveal character traits.
- Quote:
"How somebody wishes, whether they believe in wishing...that's all big character development stuff."
— Brownell Landrum [08:40]
Cultural Rituals and the Psychology of Wishing
- Examples of global wish rituals:
- Brazil’s New Year: Jumping seven waves and making wishes.
- Blowing dandelion puffs: Imagined as a grief ritual during the Black Plague.
- Lantern releases & ema boards: Highlighting wishing’s universality.
- Quote:
"I found it fascinating...the jumping of the seven waves in Brazil on New Year's...thought that was a really lovely ritual."
— Brownell Landrum [09:52]
The Danger of Wishing in Folklore: Warnings and Pitfalls
- Warnings through myth: Cultural stories like djinn or the “Monkey’s Paw” caution against unreflective or harmful wishing.
- Landrum’s approach: Emphasize peaceful, positive, and purposeful energy to avoid toxic manifestation.
- Quote:
"It's imperative that the wishes are peaceful, positive, and purposeful...so it's not just the wording, but the feeling and the energy..."
— Brownell Landrum [11:58]
Ritual and Skepticism
- Empowering even the skeptical: Ritualized actions, even without belief, can stabilize intention and foster unity.
- Science and faith as allies: Group rituals have historic roles in cultural cohesion and psychological benefit.
- Quote:
"If we all started just feeling...peaceful, positive, and purposeful for one minute a day...I just...have faith that it could really be beautiful and powerful..."
— Brownell Landrum [12:56, 14:59]
Secular and Religious Rituals
- Inclusivity: Wishes and rituals need not be religious—science supports psychological benefit. Wishing circles and communal intention experiments are inclusive by necessity.
- Landrum’s “Cosmic Wish Experiment”: Open to all, advocating for experimentation and data-driven refinement.
- Quote:
"I wanted to create something that allowed for religious ritual...and also included those that didn't have it. It was like, we can all wish..."
— Brownell Landrum [15:17]
The Science: Wishing and Synchronicity
- Synchronicity and intention: Wishing may prime individuals to notice serendipities; stories like the “blue balloon” highlight this.
- Quote:
"Once you set up an intention...you're going to be looking for solutions. It's going to set up your brain to do that."
— Brownell Landrum [18:17]
Wishing, Selfhood, and Alignment
- Three selves: The inner (body), outer (mind), and higher (soul/self) must align for effective wishing.
- Not hierarchy, but balance: None is “higher” or “lower”—each operates on a different plane.
- Quote:
"If you're wishing for something that your body is rejecting, then there’s going to be blocks. And the more you're aware [of] what your body wants or your spirit wants...the more effective the wish."
— Brownell Landrum [20:17–24:33]
Toxic Manifestation and Wish Ethics
- Warning against wish-based discrimination or narcissism: Critique of “The Secret” and superiority attitudes.
- No as guidance: Failed wishes offer information, not indictment. The “reverse optimism” principle encourages seeing apparent failures as redirections.
- Quote:
"No is just information, it’s not an ending, and no can help you...maybe it's guiding you to something better."
— Brownell Landrum [26:48]
Communal Wishing: Emotional Contagion and Social Bonding
- Wishing together: Potential for social unity and uplift, acting as surrogate for religious community.
- Emotionally contagious: Ceremonial wishing can spread optimism and hope, possibly with emergent effects.
- Quote:
"If we all knew, like we said before, you know, it's a certain time of day and everybody is wishing at that particular time, then you’re not so alone."
— Brownell Landrum [28:36]
Science at the Frontier
- Where science meets mystery: Acknowledges ongoing research into consciousness, retrocausality, and nonlocality.
- Inclusivity again: Wishing transcends religious divides—everyone can participate.
- Quote:
"Wishing transcends that. Right? You can have a wish circle and you can have every possible religion in that wish circle wishing for the same wish and...really great uniter."
— Brownell Landrum [30:28]
Responsibility and Criteria for Wishing
- Wishing with integrity: Landrum’s criteria—wishes must be peaceful, positive, and purposeful. Harmful, selfish, or non-aligned wishes are filtered or reframed.
- Quote:
"I’ll either have the choice of talking with them to see how can we reframe it...or I will say, no, I don't think it's right for you to join my framework."
— Brownell Landrum [32:58]
Narcissism and Hope vs. Denial
- Addressing the darker side: Wishing can be narcissistic if self-centered; the antidote is elevating others, wishing for communal good.
- Distinguishing hope from denial: Hope embraces possibility and action; denial avoids uncomfortable truths. Frameworks like “reverse optimism” can help people transcend denial.
- Quote:
"Denial is a big thing...I guess what I would like to see with this book and these programs...is that people could start being aware of the things that they’re denying."
— Brownell Landrum [37:37]
Memorable Quotes & Moments
- On Wishing as Structured Openness:
"Wishing is a structured act of consciousness...not about manipulating outcomes, but psychological alignment with uncertainty."
— Dr. Juan Carlos Rey [00:04] - On the Four Responses:
"Every wish...has one of four responses: yes, no, wait, or something better."
— Brownell Landrum [03:31] - On Ritual’s Power Even for Skeptics:
"Even if all we did was feel peaceful, positive, and purposeful for one minute a day...that could really be beautiful and powerful and we could elevate."
— Brownell Landrum [14:59] - On Inclusive Wishing:
"We can all wish, whether...you’re in the skeptics world and you don’t believe there’s a higher power, fine. But there’s enough science to give it a go and see if it feels better."
— Brownell Landrum [15:17] - On Wish Ethics:
"Within my system at least, I will make sure that I elevate all the wishes that go through it."
— Brownell Landrum [32:58] - On Synchronicity and Intention:
"Once you set up an intention...it's going to set up your brain to look for solutions."
— Brownell Landrum [18:17] - Host’s reflection:
"Wishing in this framework is not a demand placed upon the universe. It is a disciplined relationship with possibility."
— Dr. Juan Carlos Rey [41:04]
Important Timestamps
- Wishing vs. Goals & Prayer: [02:30–03:24]
- Four Responses to Wishing: [03:31–04:11]
- Neuroscience of Wishing: [06:13–08:31]
- Narrative and Identity: [08:31–09:44]
- Cultural Rituals: [09:44–11:33]
- Pitfalls and Energy of Wishing: [11:58–13:50]
- Skepticism and Collective Ritual: [12:50–15:17]
- Secular vs. Religious Rituals: [15:17–16:41]
- Synchronicity and Intention: [18:04–19:45]
- Selfhood and Alignment: [20:05–24:33]
- Toxic Manifestation: [24:48–28:26]
- Collective Wishing: [28:26–29:40]
- Wish Criteria: [32:58–35:32]
- Hope vs. Denial: [37:32–38:40]
- Where to Find Brownell’s Work: [38:53–40:29]
- Host’s Closing Reflection: [41:04]
Tone and Style
The conversation is both rigorous and accessible—warm, open-minded, playful, but always firmly rooted in observable science and cultural analysis. Dr. Rey is analytical but never dismissive; Landrum is earnest and curious, encouraging practical experimentation with wishing, ritual, and psychological alignment.
Where to Find Brownell Landrum’s Work
- Website: brownelllandrum.com
- Social Media/YouTube: Search for Brownell Landrum
- Cosmic Wish Experiment: Free resources, playbooks, and wish circle sign-ups available via her website
Final Reflection
Dr. Rey closes the episode with this insight:
"Wishing in this framework is not a demand placed upon the universe. It is a disciplined relationship with possibility...because it teaches the nervous system how to live with what cannot yet be known." [41:04]
For listeners seeking a grounded, multidimensional look at wishing—blending story, brain science, cultural ritual, and spiritual curiosity—this episode offers an expansive, nuanced, and hopeful exploration.