The Observable Unknown – Episode Summary
Podcast: The Observable Unknown
Host: Dr. Juan Carlos Rey
Guest: Dr. Robin Hagar
Date: September 14, 2025
Overview
In this episode, Dr. Juan Carlos Rey welcomes Dr. Robin Hagar—a clinician whose path bridges pharmacy, hospital administration, shamanic healing, and energy medicine—exploring where science meets spirituality and how integrative healing can transform medicine and the human experience. The conversation journeys from academic rigor to mystical healing, examining what happens when intellect listens to intuition and medicine returns to service.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Robin’s Integrative Journey: Academia, Intuition, and Energy Medicine
- Dr. Hagar starts with her background in pharmacy and her early exposure to integrative medicine at the University of Arizona under Dr. Andrew Weil’s influence.
- A pivotal moment: a Healing Touch class in 2010 that “changed my world quite a bit.”
- Quote: “It felt like... I put a new pair of glasses on and I saw the world and all the things around us extremely differently.” (13:35, Dr. Hagar)
- The transition from a strictly pharmaceutical model to acknowledging intuition and holistic therapies, triggered both by her clinical work and her aunt’s cancer journey.
2. Limits of Western Medicine & Awakening Intuition
- Robin noticed, even as a clinician, a gap in Western medicine’s service to patients, often feeling certain drugs were wrong for people based on intuition—not just training.
- Quote: “It was just a gut feeling… Now I understand very much intuition and intuitive feelings.” (07:23, Dr. Hagar)
- Her protocol innovations (slower dose escalation) were first intuition-based, later validated by research and black box warnings.
3. Plant Medicine & The Influence of Shamanic Healing
- As her aunt faced stage IV cancer, they pursued integrative treatments, including plant medicines (ayahuasca, San Pedro), guided by a Peruvian-trained shaman.
- The ceremonies emphasized honoring tradition and the sacredness of the medicines, not just consumption.
- Quote: “It wasn’t just, hey, come out to the desert and drink... It was tradition and honoring the rituals and honoring the medicine.” (14:32, Dr. Hagar)
- Robin describes a ceremony where her wheelchair-bound aunt stood and walked after plant medicine—a profound turnaround.
4. Transformation: Death, Grief, and the Spiritual Journey
- Ayahuasca’s translation—“plant of death”—reflects its spiritual role in transition. Dr. Hagar recounts how these ceremonies prepared her aunt for a peaceful passing and shaped Robin’s own relationship with loss.
- Quote: “Ayahuasca actually means plant of death… So it certainly did impact her transition to be much more peaceful, gentle.” (23:18, Dr. Hagar)
- Robin describes profound ongoing connections with her aunt and mother after death, characterized by signs, synchronicities, and altered perception.
5. Integrative Medicine in Healthcare Leadership
- After her aunt’s transition, Robin blended the two worlds by introducing holistic practices into hospital administration.
- Examples: Grounding meetings on grass, protocols for aromatherapy, pet therapy, sound therapy, and palliative care.
- Quote: “I said, I would like to have our morning stand up meeting outside on the grass… And then I began teaching about grounding.” (26:30, Dr. Hagar)
- Sound vibrational therapy (Tibetan singing bowls, Native American flute) proved especially impactful even for skeptics and caregivers.
- Quote: “Sound vibrational therapy is so very powerful... it’s not just going to take care of one person, it’s going to take care of everybody in that space.” (31:25, Dr. Hagar)
6. The Measurable and Anecdotal Value of Energy Medicine
- Robin sees more patients reducing pain/anxiety medications, reporting calm and wellbeing when these modalities are introduced (though her evidence is mainly anecdotal).
- She references organizations like Chi Foundation that conduct clinical trials on integrative therapies.
7. Scientific Framing & Skepticism
- To explain energy medicine, Robin uses analogy:
- Humans as “chemo-electric beings;” our bodies conduct energy/frequency, similar to principles in Chinese medicine.
- She bridges the language gap for skeptics but refuses to argue, focusing on personal openness instead.
- Quote: “I never take on the skeptics… I do send them love though… one day life is gonna bring you something… it’s gonna jolt you into seeking out a different way.” (37:57, Dr. Hagar)
8. Future of Integrative and Energy Medicine
- Dr. Hagar believes modalities like Healing Touch will increasingly dovetail into mainstream care.
- Accreditation is key; focus on self-care.
- Need for less pharmaceutical, more plant-based, and non-toxic approaches.
- Environmental concerns: toxicity of drugs and plastics affecting both people and the earth.
9. Counseling, Self-Care, and Human Connection
- Robin emphasizes the role of listening, presence, and intuitive support in healing—integrating self-care, grounding, and nature-based practices as medicine.
- Quote: “Self care is where… the basis and foundation of where it’s all at… you must take care of yourself first.” (47:25, Dr. Hagar)
- She notes the growing inclusion of breath work, visualization, plant medicine (psilocybin, ketamine, ayahuasca) within psychotherapy, though she cautions about misuse and emphasizes education.
10. Personal Healing Experience
- Dr. Hagar shares a striking personal anecdote: during a time she was being worked up for breast cancer, a plant medicine ceremony led her to view the lump as a grief-based energy block linked to her late mother.
- Subsequent diagnostics revealed nothing abnormal, a healing she attributes to her spiritual and energetic work.
- Quote: “I realized... the lump... was actually an energy block. And it was full of grief...” (54:20, Dr. Hagar)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “Medicine was a business and I wanted it to be a service.” (03:45, Dr. Hagar)
- “My mission was to keep people safe, but it also saved a lot of money.” (07:08, Dr. Hagar)
- “Energy goes where it wants to go. Even if they don’t believe, they still get something out of it.” (41:33, Dr. Hagar)
- “I would just love to see people… do a little cleanup… let’s do a little less chemical and understand how to use plants and natural resources.” (45:45, Dr. Hagar)
- “Self care is where… it’s all at, right? You must take care of yourself first.” (47:25, Dr. Hagar)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Integrative Beginnings – 02:38
- Intuition in Clinical Practice – 06:55
- Plant Medicine & the Shamanic Journey – 14:08
- Impact on Cancer and Death – 15:45, 23:14
- Return and Transformation in Healthcare Leadership – 25:06
- Sound & Alternative Therapies in Hospitals – 28:36
- Explaining Energy Medicine & Dealing with Skeptics – 33:42, 37:57
- Personal Healing Experience – 53:09
- Closing Insights on Healing – 58:41
Tone & Language
The conversation is personal, open, and reflective—fusing scientific curiosity with spiritual humility. Robin’s voice is that of a seasoned clinician who’s comfortable speaking in both evidence-based and experiential terms. Dr. Rey’s tone is warm, inquisitive, and respectful, drawing out deep stories and practical wisdom.
In Summary:
This episode is an invitation to challenge the boundaries of Western medical thinking, honor the wisdom of tradition, and recognize the value of subtle, unseen influences in healing. By weaving together stories of loss, intuition, and groundbreaking integrative practice, Robin Hagar and Dr. Juan Carlos Rey offer a vision of medicine as love—and a roadmap for integrating science and spirit in the care of self, others, and the planet.