The Observable Unknown — Episode Summary

Podcast: The Observable Unknown
Host: Dr. Juan Carlos Rey
Guest: Dr. Wesley W. Detweiler
Date: July 20, 2025
Theme: Exploring the Unseen Roots and Sacred Alchemy of Addiction and Recovery

Episode Overview

This profound and open-hearted episode features a deep dive into the invisible forces underlying addiction, recovery, and human transformation. Dr. Wesley W. Detweiler—a psychologist and counselor with both clinical expertise and lived experience—joins Dr. Rey to explore the shadowy roots of addiction, the pivotal role of connection and community in healing, and the way recovery can become a form of "sacred alchemy." They discuss ancestral trauma, the myths we inherit about ourselves, the nuances of shame and longing, and how spiritual practices and even psychedelics can be catalysts for recovery.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Addiction and Its Unique Nature

• Addiction as a Misapplied Coping Strategy
  Dr. Detweiler clarifies that addiction is not simply about substance use but about any behavior that repeatedly interferes with one’s life. He sees addiction as an "overly used coping mechanism"—a way to deal with challenges that ultimately becomes self-defeating.

  “Addiction… can be defined as an overly used coping mechanism or coping strategy that isn't successful.” (03:15)

• Parallels to Other Disorders
  There are similarities between addiction and disorders like OCD or ADD, particularly regarding anxiety and compulsive coping:

  "Those are closely aligned in terms of neurodivergence and in anxiety... Sometimes we can fall into addictive patterns for ways of dealing with the world on their terms." (05:43)

• Cultural and Individual Roots
  Dr. Detweiler stresses that while each community may have unique norms and challenges, the search for a "power that is external"—spiritual or social—runs through many effective recovery models.

  "There's different pathways to seeking solution around addiction. But the common thread... is that there's something greater, something like a power that is external, that helps people to forge a path towards enlightenment..." (07:02)

2. Recovery as Gaining New Tools

• The Spoon and Row Analogy
  Dr. Detweiler likens addiction to trying to row a boat with a spoon—an ineffective tool for the challenge at hand. Recovery, then, is about learning better tools for life:

  "Addiction is like taking a spoon and attempting to row the boat... treating addiction is about giving people better tools..." (08:56)

• 12-Step as a 'Recipe for Elegant Living'
  Dr. Detweiler details how the 12-step approach provided life structure, community, and a path to self-love and service:

  "The 12 step program is a recipe for elegant living. The Cornerstones... are unity, fellowship and service." (11:13)
  “I learned to love myself again through seeing myself through the eyes of other people in recovery that loved me and taught me to love myself." (13:00)

3. Connection: The Antidote to Addiction

• Connection vs. Sobriety
  He insists the opposite of addiction is not sobriety but connection:

  "The opposite of addiction is not sobriety. The opposite of addiction is connection. Connection is the thing that we seek..." (14:57)

• False Community and True Community
  The process of seeking community within active addiction can be seductive, but real healing comes from authentic supportive groups.

• Transformative Events and Psychedelic Insight
  Dr. Detweiler shares a powerful story of a pivotal experience at Burning Man, suggesting that altered states—in certain contexts—can provide life-changing clarity:

  "The trip that I had... the child in me... was looking at the adult I had become and was just disgusted with the adult that I had become... And the following Friday, I was in treatment. And that was the beginning of my sobriety journey." (14:57-18:25)

4. The Role of Psychedelics in Recovery

• Potential and Precautions
  Both host and guest discuss the therapeutic potential and risks:

  "I've seen ketamine, psilocybin and LSD... used incredibly effectively. But I've also seen people abuse them... It really depends on the individual." (19:07-19:45) "The ceremony of how these drugs are used... is also super important..." (20:31)

5. Inherited Myths, Shame, and Self-Talk

• Myths We Inherit and Self-Concept
  Dr. Detweiler explains how negative self-myths, often inherited from family, religion, or culture, entrench addiction:

  “We often have some incredibly destructive internal dialogues that... contribute to the spiraling and... helplessness that then feeds the addictive behavior.” (23:15)

• Transforming Negative Self-Talk
  He describes the process of turning negative thinking—"the myths that people have about who they are”—into something to be noticed, labeled as “the addiction speaking,” and actively countered with positive affirmation.

• The Difference Between Shame and Guilt

  "Guilt... I would have done things differently. Shame is, I'm a bad person because of the decision that I made... Shame is a very destructive force. It keeps us stuck. It doesn't allow us to grow." (27:38)

6. From Craving to Sacred Longing

• Inverting the Drive
  The same focus and energy that fueled his addiction, Dr. Detweiler says, powers his recovery:

  “I wanted to seek my solution as much as I sought my destruction, I wanted to invert the paradigm.” (30:12)

7. Ancestral and Collective Trauma

• Inherited Pain, Especially in Marginalized Groups
  He shares observations of inherited trauma—be it from the Holocaust, AIDS epidemic, or community losses—particularly among gay men, emphasizing how collective suffering can remain unspoken yet deeply influential.

  “There's this incredible collective awareness and consciousness and almost in our... DNA around this loss that happened.” (33:11)

8. The Archetype and the Hero’s Journey

• Addiction and the Phoenix Metaphor
  Dr. Detweiler likens recovery to the hero’s journey:

  “What really comes to me in this particular topic is the hero's journey, right... through our greatest pain comes the most profound learning..." (37:02)

9. Nature vs. Nurture and Epigenetics

• Complexities of Transmission
  He acknowledges both genetic and environmental influences but stresses that the capacity for addiction often matches a capacity for passionate, positive pursuits.

  “People who are prone to addiction are also prone to so many more incredible things and endeavors.” (39:25)

10. Queer Identity and Early Shadow Work

• The Gift and Challenge of Outsiderhood
  Queer individuals often confront an existential crisis and societal rejection early, shaping resilience and sensitivity but also vulnerability to shame and addiction.

  “I think that gay men and... women... have an existential crisis when they're like in elementary school, right? Oh my god, I am different... I need to hide that." (44:01)

11. Technology, Connection, and Modern Alienation

• “Compare and Despair”
  Modern digital life can both create connection and intensify isolation, amplifying "compare and despair."

  “Sometimes the things that are meant to connect us are the very things that are causing us to feel more distant.” (48:10)

12. Community and Chosen Family

• Community as Salvation
  Dr. Detweiler notes that for the marginalized—especially queer and trans clients—finding (or creating) supportive community ("chosen family") is often essential:

  "Show me your friends and I'll show you your future." (54:20)

13. The Therapist’s Role: Humility and Presence

• Grounding Practice
  Dr. Detweiler emphasizes presence, humility, and surrendering hubris as his guiding invisible forces:

  “I try to remember that I'm just a pawn in the universe... It’s about just being present and connected in an attempt to just be a conduit for whatever needs to come through...” (55:00)

• Therapeutic Presence
  Sometimes, simply holding space and witnessing someone is enough to catalyze healing:

  “Just seeing somebody and experiencing them and creating space for them, the healing starts. The healing begins.” (63:04)

14. Love and Connection: Both Turning Point and Destination

• Transformation Through Love
  Ultimately, Dr. Detweiler sees love—be it connection to community, self, or his husband—as the true axis of transformation:

  "Maybe the turning point, but also maybe the destination... I wouldn’t have been able to receive the love he has for me without first learning how to love myself." (61:34)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Addiction and Coping:

  "Addiction... is an overly used coping mechanism or coping strategy that isn't successful." — Dr. Detweiler (03:15)

• On Connection:

  "The opposite of addiction is not sobriety. The opposite of addiction is connection." — Dr. Detweiler (14:57)

• On Recovery:

  "If I can spend as much time as I was seeking meth, then I can spend at least that much time seeking my sobriety. I wanted to invert the paradigm." — Dr. Detweiler (30:12)

• On Inherited Myths:

  "Anytime I indulge that negative thinking, that's my addiction attempting to come in and drive a wedge between me and the people that love me..." — Dr. Detweiler (25:38)

• On Shame:

  "Guilt can be a very positive thing. Shame is a very destructive force. It keeps us stuck." — Dr. Detweiler (27:38)

• On Chosen Family and Support:

  "Show me your friends and I'll show you your future." — Dr. Detweiler (54:20)

• On the Power of Presence in Healing:

  "Just seeing somebody and experiencing them and creating space for them, the healing starts." — Dr. Detweiler (63:04)

• On Love as Destination:

  "Maybe the turning point, but also maybe the destination... I wouldn’t have been able to receive the love he has for me without first learning how to love myself." — Dr. Detweiler (61:34)

Important Timestamps

• [03:15] — Defining addiction and the role of coping strategies
• [11:13] — 12-Step program as "elegant living"; finding unity, fellowship, and service
• [14:57] — Connection as the core solution to addiction
• [18:25] — Burning Man psychedelic experience and the moment of transformation
• [27:38] — Distinguishing guilt and shame; shame as an obstacle to growth
• [30:12] — Transforming destructive craving into sacred longing in the recovery process
• [33:11] — Ancestral/communal trauma and its role in shaping addiction
• [44:01] — Early existential crisis for queer youth; impact on shame and connection
• [48:10] — “Compare and despair”; technology and modern isolation
• [54:20] — The importance of chosen family and “show me your friends and I’ll show you your future”
• [63:04] — The transformative power of simple presence and witnessing
• [61:34] — Love and connection as destination as well as turning point

Tone and Style

Warm, deeply personal, intellectually curious, and compassionate. The conversation flows naturally between clinical, philosophical, and spiritual topics. Both host and guest value openness, vulnerability, and grounding spiritual wisdom in evidence-based insight.

Summary Takeaway

Through a blend of scientific insight, personal testimony, and spiritual wisdom, this episode illuminates how addiction takes root in the hidden layers of individual and collective psyche, how recovery means acquiring not just sobriety but new tools, new myths, and most of all new connections—whether through community, love, or spiritual awakening. The path out of darkness is neither linear nor identical for all, but always necessitates authentic connection—to self, to others, and to something greater. At the heart of the observable unknown lies the transforming power of presence, humility, and love.