The Observable Unknown — Episode Summary

Podcast: The Observable Unknown
Host: Dr. Juan Carlos Rey
Guest: Fereshteh Forough
Date: August 31, 2025
Episode Focus:
How technology, education, and inner resilience become tools of resistance, transformation, and hope for Afghan girls, explored through the story and insights of activist and founder of Afghanistan’s first coding school for girls, Fereshteh Forough.

Overview: Where Science and Spirit Meet Resistance and Hope

In this episode, Dr. Juan Carlos Rey converses with Fereshteh Forough — founder of Afghanistan’s first coding school for girls and a passionate advocate for women’s education and empowerment in the face of immense challenge. Through a deeply personal lens, Forough reflects on the intersection of displacement, identity, technology, and collective healing. The episode probes how wounds can become places of light, how code can act both as survival and silent rebellion, and how new communities are built in the virtual world when the tangible one is closed off.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins of Resilience: From Refugee to Visionary

• Early Life in Exile:

  • Born a refugee in Iran during the Soviet-Afghan war, Forough describes the persistent feeling of outsiderness. Iran never granted citizenship, and when she returned to Afghanistan, her accent and dress marked her as a foreigner once more.
  • “That wound…reminds me of this saying from Rumi...‘the wound is the place where the light enters you.’” (Fereshteh, [05:04])
  • Resourcefulness and making do with “empty hands” became a core value.

• Transforming Wounds into Light:

  • “Great things can start with empty hands... you really don’t need to have everything ready for you in order for you to start something.” (Fereshteh, [06:32])
  • The feeling of home became internal rather than tied to a place — “Home is me…wherever I go, if I feel at peace, then that’s home for me.” (Fereshteh, [09:56])

2. Motivation: Responsibility, Defiance, and Self-Proving

• Forough was motivated both by internal drive to prove herself capable amidst restrictions, and a sense of duty to empower girls denied basic rights in Afghanistan.
• “Perhaps part of it was that I wanted to prove myself to myself…But also I felt like I had a responsibility on my shoulders.” (Fereshteh, [11:53])

3. Family Influence and Support

• Navigated a large family dynamic as a “middle child”—more freedom, less oversight, and a tendency toward rebellion and independence.
• Praises her parents: “My mom…invested in the girls’ education…and my dad…knock[ed] every door to get the paper permission for us.” (Fereshteh, [14:15])

4. The Impact of Coding School: Healing through Sisterhood

• Forough finds deep meaning watching girls transform digital skills into real-life empowerment. The stories are both a mirror of her own struggles and a source of healing.
• “The courage I see in them, I saw in myself too.” (Fereshteh, [16:15])
• 34% of graduates are sole breadwinners of their families, some earning more than men — code as both financial liberation and resistance.

5. Code as Resistance and Liberation

• Each line of code is “an act of resistance” to oppression; technology allows girls to transcend borders and discrimination.
• “I’m a digital citizen of the world…In this virtual world, I can have my own identity…That was very empowering to me.” (Fereshteh, [21:35])
• “Education is a force…technology can be that tool that can overcome a lot of the systematic discriminations that people are facing.” (Fereshteh, [23:28])

6. Technology and Community as Survival

• The online community she built acts as “a survival shelter…where we all share the same purpose, perhaps same wounds, and…heal each other.” (Fereshteh, [24:50])
• First realization of technology’s power: “When I was able to meet people from different parts of the world…They believed in me and wanted to support me.” ([25:54])

7. Western Narratives vs. Lived Reality

• Pushes back against the narrative of Afghan girls as only victims, highlighting their resilience and agency.
• “I don’t look at it as loss. I look at it as a way that they are challenging this system and eventually this system will fall apart because these young women have faith in themselves.” ([28:03])

8. Mentorship and Rebirth

• Creating a “sacred space of sisterhood,” graduates return as mentors, closing the circle of growth and support.
• “It’s almost like a loop, an infinite loop…Each time you become a mentor…you pass your wisdom and experience to the next person.” ([34:43])

9. Crypto as Survival and Quiet Rebellion

• Crypto offered a practical and strategic workaround for financial exclusion, especially for refugees and women forbidden traditional bank access.
• “The only thing you needed…was an email address…how nondiscriminative this system can be…That’s a liberating tool for human rights.” ([38:18], [39:14])
• Adoption of stablecoins has enabled bypassing volatility and empowering women with financial autonomy.

10. AI and the Future of Remote Education

• CTI (Code to Inspire) is now considering AI both as a tool for improving access and supporting mental health virtually, especially given the generational trauma of Afghan women.
• “We are evaluating…how we can incorporate AI in a very ethical way…maybe a virtual mentor or mutual friend…to offer guidance, support, resources for the girls.” ([43:45])

11. Patience, Spiritual Wisdom, and Rumi

• Draws repeatedly on Rumi’s poetry — patience, treasure in ruin, “letting in unwanted guests” as guides — as metaphors for her personal growth and work.
• “If you dig in into the ruins, you may find unexpectedly something very precious in it and that gives meaning to that ruin.” ([47:00])
• The true treasure gained: patience, wisdom, and the healing power of helping others.

12. Fereshteh’s Ongoing Longing: Sustaining Hope and Freedom

• Despite her achievements, Fereshteh lies awake at night hoping for one thing: “Freedom…for my students, for women, not only in Afghanistan, but everywhere, that the women are being silenced…I want to be strong enough to keep moving forward.” ([51:53])

13. The Voice She Listens To

• When needing inspiration, she listens to her own inner voice: “You’ve done more than what you could have imagined…be patient, trust your timing, and be kind to people.” ([53:49])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Refugee Experience:
  “...That wound...reminds me of this saying from Rumi... ‘the wound is the place where the light enters you.’” (Fereshteh, [05:04])

• On Building from Nothing:
  “Great things can start with empty hands.” (Fereshteh, [06:32])

• On Home:
  “Home is me, is... something that’s within me. And wherever I go, if I feel at peace, then that’s home for me.” (Fereshteh, [09:56])

• On Motivation:
  “I had a responsibility on my shoulders...so this feeling of responsibility...to empower and uplift other girls and women in my country so that...it’s possible for them to achieve what they want.” (Fereshteh, [11:53])

• On Code as Resistance:
  “It’s not simply about writing line of codes. It’s certainly an act of resistance...a place that is liberating them virtually.” (Fereshteh, [21:15])

• On International Community:
  “When I was able to meet people from different part of the world...they believed in me and wanted to support me...” (Fereshteh, [25:54])

• On Surpassing Pity:
  “Don’t look at our girls and students in a pity way...I want you to give her a job because she is talented...because she can deliver the project professionally.” (Fereshteh, [29:03])

• On Mentorship:
  “It’s almost like a loop, an infinite loop...that will exist as long as...people can carry that sense of belonging...” (Fereshteh, [34:43])

• On Crypto and Dignity:
  “That’s about dignity...they feel value in themselves...someone worthy of...being invested [in] and being, you know, access to these tools that can liberate them.” (Fereshteh, [41:16])

• On Treasure in Ruin:
  “If you dig in into the ruins, you may find unexpectedly something very precious in it and that gives meaning to that ruin.” (Fereshteh, [47:00])

• On Inspiration:
  “I hear myself. That says that you’ve done more than what you could have imagined...be patient, trust your timing, and be kind to people.” (Fereshteh, [53:49])

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [02:50] Forough’s intro — Family’s flight, discrimination, “wound is the place where the light enters you”
• [06:48] Carrying “refugee status” and evolving concept of home
• [11:08] Motivation: responsibility, proof to self and others
• [13:33] Family support and “middle child” freedom
• [15:25] Joy of seeing girls’ accomplishments and resilience
• [16:55] Stories of students as breadwinners, change-makers
• [19:37] Healing through the success of others
• [21:15] Coding as resistance and liberation beyond physical borders
• [24:36] Technology as survival shelter and community
• [25:48] Realization of technology’s power for belonging
• [26:42] International narratives and the real faces of Afghan girls
• [29:03] The pitfalls of pity and the importance of respect
• [32:48] Graduates turned mentors, perpetuating community growth
• [35:58] Crypto as necessity and rebellion: inclusion and dignity
• [41:48] Introduction of AI to programming education and wellness
• [47:00] Rumi’s “treasure in ruins”; patience and wisdom as the hidden treasures
• [51:53] The ongoing longing: hope and strength for lasting freedom for all women
• [53:49] The inner voice, self-trust, and kindness as guiding principles

Further Resources

• Learn more or offer support: codetoinspire.org

Tone:
The conversation is intimate, honest, and frequently poetic, weaving together practical details, emotional depth, and spiritual wisdom — a testament to Forough’s unique synthesis of resilience, rebellion, and compassion.