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- [00:03]
A
Welcome to the observable unknown, where science meets the unexplained. I'm Dr. Juan Carlos Rey of crowcupboard.com and after two decades of working at the intersection of comparative religious studies, grief counseling, anthropology, quantum mechanics, and consciousness studies, I've discovered that our most profound human experiences often exist in the space between what we can prove and what we can perceive. In this podcast, we'll explore the measurable influences of immeasurable forces, those hidden factors that shape our reality but often escape our traditional scientific frameworks. From the latest research in consciousness studies to the ancient wisdom that's now finding validation in neuroscience and quantum physics, we're here to bridge the gap between academic rigor and spiritual insight. Whether you're a skeptic, a seeker, or simply curious about the deeper mechanics of human experience, you're in the right place. Together, we'll examine the evidence, challenge our assumptions, and explore what happens when we dare to look beyond the obvious. In this episode, we enter a story that begins not in comfort, but but in exile. A story of a young woman who was born a refugee who could have chosen despair, but instead chose flame. That flame became vision, and that vision became code. To inspire Afghanistan's first coding school for girls. Our guest, Fareshta Faroh, has lived the very truth that when you educate a woman, you change the axis of a family, a community, even a nation. Her journey is one of resilience, defiance, and hope, a living testament to what happens when possibility is offered where only walls once stood. It is my honor to welcome her here and to listen together as she shares the story of fire carried forward, line by line, code by code. So, without any further ado, let's join the conversation. Hello, Fareshta. It's always great to hear your voice and to sit with you. I find some of your insights to be really unique. And to be honest, world changing. Your journey began in exile, born a refugee. When you look back, what inner fire carried you from those beginnings into building something as audacious as Afghanistan's first coding school for girls?
- [02:50]
B
Well, first of all, thank you so much, Juan, for asking me to join your amazing podcast. It's an honor to be here and share my story with your audience.
- [03:00]
A
Thank you.
- [03:01]
B
As you said, I was born as an Afghan refugee in Iran during the Soviet invasion to Afghanistan. My family fled the war, and like every other refugee family, they left everything behind and started life from zero. So, as you can imagine, being born as a refugee comes with a lot of challenges, you know, and a lot of discriminations, because I think oftentimes people think about refugees as people who come to steal opportunities from you or perhaps they are a burden to the community. And I think that sense of proving yourself that you are worthy enough to be part of this community is always part of a refugee journey for anyone and of course for myself. I think to your question, when you become a refugee, it's. It means that you are giving up on something which is very important to you and to refugees. I think giving up your home where you feel safe, you feel comfortable and connected, is the sacrifice you make. And perhaps that feeling will create a wound in your body and you carry that wound with yourself wherever you go. And it kind of remind me of this saying from Rumi, whose real name is Maulana Jalaluddin Barhi, which is known to the west people as Rumi, who is a 13th century Farsi poet. As someone that I admire his poetry and get my inspiration from. He says that the wound is the place where the light enters you. And I think the concept of fire here requestion for me is that the wound that I carry as a refugee still can be a place that allow light and healing into you. And when you allow that dead light that enters your body, that then create an environment for you to be able to move forward and have that fire or passion in you in order to be able to continue your life despite of the challenges, discriminations and everything that you're facing. And I think that certainly was a lesson for me to learn as a refugee board. But also I think what I've learned as a refugee that perhaps created that inner fire in me to be able to create the first code in the school for girls in Afghanistan was that great things can start with empty hands. That something that I learned from, you know, being a refugee, learning how to be resourceful. And most of the time you really don't need to have everything ready for you in order for you to start something. You can look around and see what you can do with what you have and with using that resources and the faith in yourself. I think that inner fire will help you and heal you to be able to continue and do the work that you. You enjoy about it. You love it and perh. Want to give back to the world and your community.
- [06:49]
A
Thank you. That's very thoughtful. The idea of your family's refugee status obviously left a huge impression on you. And you've. You've changed that. That status into something beautiful. You've elevated it. Is there ever time when you feel that you're still carrying the refugee status within you, even now as a leader, that perhaps causes you to feel insecure or anxious. Maybe it takes away from the kind of light you're spreading into the lives of others.
- [07:19]
B
Yes, I mean, you know, I think the refugee is part of me and my life, and that's part of my history and identity. So wherever I go, I think that that refugee status would be with me. It's interesting because I think when we think about refugees and the way we were born. I was born in Iran as an Afghan parent, so technically I should be Iranian because I was born in Iran. But the Iranian government never recognized me as Iranian. I was issued a refugee ATK and card, and by the time I was 15 years old living in Iran, I was just a refugee. And when we moved back to Afghanistan, to Iraq, where my parents are from, after the fall of Taliban in 2001, a year after I got enrolled in university, but because the way I was dressing and my accent was more Iranian accent, Farsi speaking, I wasn't Afghan enough for my classmates and people, and they wouldn't accept me as Afghan, and they thought that I'm more Iranian. So even though in my own, in my country, that I have my roots there, I still felt that an outsider, perhaps not a refugee, but like an outsider that still I have to prove myself, that, you know, I'm worth to be here and, you know, to be able to kind of like protect myself and my identity and who I am. And I went to Germany and I got my master's in computer science, and then I came to the US late 2012. So I lived in a lot of different places. And that refugee status or being an immigrant, it's something that. It's just part of my life as of now. And I think that what really helped me to put this in a perspective, even though it can be sad, it can carry a lot of trauma, fear and anxiety. Living as a refugee in the experiences you faced with the systematic discrimination. But it changed my perspective about what we define as home. What is home? Where is home? And. And I. And I came to an understanding that home is where I feel at peace and happy and comfortable. And the home can be not a physical location. It can be something that we carry with ourselves. And to me, home is me, is, you know, something that. It's within me. And wherever I go, if I feel at peace, then that's home for me.
- [10:36]
A
That's beautiful. So where do you feel you're at in terms of the alienation and the abandonment? Obviously, going back to Afghanistan left you with clearly you took that and again transformed into something revolutionary. You wanted to aid the Afghani people, but did you ever have a sense of, I'm doing this for some reason other than simply to uplift them? Were you possibly thinking that you wanted to prove yourself and that's why you wanted to help them as. As much as you have and as much as you continue to.
- [11:08]
B
It's an interesting question because I feel like while I was growing up, I was always someone that I wanted to do something different from my peers and people around me. I was very. I. I was a very visionary person and I would say a very imaginative person in a way that if I would have imagined something I wanted to do, I would go for it. So perhaps part of it was that I wanted to prove myself to myself, that. That I can do, despite of all the restrictions, challenges that the society is imposing on me. I just want to prove that I can do, even during the most challenging times, I still can do that if I believe in myself. In. That was part of it, that I just proved to myself that, yes, I did it, even though it was a very challenging path. Second, yes, I felt like I had a responsibility in my shoulders because I thought that we're in a country that many of these girls and women, even starting within their own family and households, are being deprived to access education, go outside for work or practice. Very simple, basic, you know, human rights. But I was very fortunate that my family supported me, and then I was able to go travel outside Afghanistan, get education, and then come to us. And there's, like, these resources for me here that I can use. So this feeling of responsibility that this is my responsibility, that I have to use this in a way that I can empower and uplift other girls and women in my country so that, like me, despite all the challenges, they understand that it's possible for them to achieve what they want.
- [13:13]
A
When your family provided you with the support that they did, was your impression that they did this seeing your broader vision or. Or simply because you were a member of the family and needed the support that you were driven towards acquiring through either them or through other resources?
- [13:33]
B
I would say it was more generic as a way that when we grew up, I grew up in a big family. We were eight children, and I'm the fifth one. So actually, I would say I'm not the oldest, I'm not the youngest. So as a middle child, I kind of grew up by myself. You know, you're like the middle child and no one really care about you. I don't Want to say no one really care about you. It's just like when you're a middle child, you're on your own. And I think perhaps I took that as a advantage to do whatever I wanted to do, you know, and not have the pressure of the family to follow perhaps certain things that they wanted me to do. And I was a rebellious kid, you know, I always did what I wanted, not in a bad way. The things that I felt, it's good and right to me. I didn't want to live in a framework that tell me what to do. I wanted to be free and do what I wanted to do. But I'm very grateful because my mom learned how to stitch and make dresses and by selling them she was able to bring money to the family and invest in the girls education, especially me and my sisters which with that money we were able to go to school. I'm grateful to my dad who was going to every office and knock every door to get the paper permission for us in order for us to be able to enroll at the school and continue our classes.
- [15:04]
A
That's a lot of support and clearly it's helped to get you to where you are today. To that end, you've told stories of girls who turned their first digital tools into whole new lives. When you sit with their courage, what does it stir in you? Not as a founder, but as a woman who has walked a parallel road.
- [15:25]
B
It's kind of giving me a sense of a sense of like sisterhood in a sense that we all have the same purpose of moving forward and supporting each other. And it makes me very happy to see that. Every day when I wake up, I check social media, different platforms where our students post about their work. Either it's a simple website they created or a game they coded. The graphic design that they learned, small animation that they created, and the happiness that they post about how much happy and excited they are that they learned something. Making me very happy for to see that because the resilience I see in them, I. I see in myself too the courage that I see in them I so in myself too. And when I see that despite of all the challenges that they are facing in Afghanistan right now, as a woman, as a human being who is literally living in an open prison, but they still grow in that environment. It certainly helped me to push, move forward and fight for their rights and support them as much as I can.
- [16:51]
A
Is there a particular student whose story still echoes in you late at night?
- [16:56]
B
I would say all of our girls that the fact that these young Ladies with all the limitations or keep pushing forward for a future that they still even don't know what going to happen to them. It's just super inspiring. We do have students that live in suburb. We have one student that she learned how to put some of her money that we helped her with some employment opportunities to buy actually some livestock like chickens and then sell their eggs. And then by selling some of that she was able to invest in her education back and support her family. We have a lot of girls that despite of all these challenges, they are very dedicated to do that. 34% of our graduates are the sole breadwinner of their families. In a country where women are banned just to work and many of them are making above monthly income salary In Afghanistan, that's $100. So some of them are double or triple than the men even in the family. So this is not just about we are teaching these girls how to code and do graphic design work. This is about how these women become the decision makers in their families and not only uplift themselves, but also their families and later on, hopefully the community. And perhaps in the future they would be the, the voices and the forces to bring peace and stability to Afghanistan.
- [18:37]
A
Do you see your younger self in any of their faces or in any of their stories?
- [18:42]
B
I do, I do. I see that the struggles that they are facing were more or less the struggles that I was facing when I was studying computer science, when I moved to Afghanistan, when I looked down upon because I just was a woman who was very vocal and wanted to defend my rights and create a safe space for other girls and how my voice was getting shut down. But I stood up for myself. And it's always difficult to when you're outnumbered because you can be easily targeted, harassed and you know, put down. But this, this students of us, they're going through the same thing. But I admire their courage and resilience that they keep moving forward.
- [19:31]
A
Do you feel that their victories have healed something in you that the world once wounded?
- [19:37]
B
Yes. Because even if I would be able to change one life at the time, change the circumstances of a life of a one person, then that's the world to me that makes me very, very happy and that heals that wound that I carry wherever I go. And it helps me to stay grounded because the work that I do is very emotionally attached to human lives and it's very, can be very stressful, especially with what's just going on in Afghanistan. And I think on the other hand, the sacrifices I had to do to do this work and for example, not being able to see my family for almost more than 14 years, I haven't been back to Afghanistan and, you know, with the idea that, like, what gonna happen to them, and going to bed at night thinking about a lot of things and waking up being very, you know, upset and heartbroken. But then when I see the amount of work and faith these girls are putting in their work, it helps me to continue my work and support them.
- [21:04]
A
There's something almost defiant in teaching code where even books are banned. Do you feel that each line of code your students write is also an act of resistance?
- [21:15]
B
Yes, absolutely. I. I think just. It's not simply about writing line of codes. It's certainly an act of resistance. An act of resistance towards a system that oppressing them, but also towards an environment and a place that is liberating them virtually. When you look at code, coding is a language like any other language. When you speak different languages, coding is another language that you learn and how to speak with it. And I feel that from my perspective as a person who learned how to code and learned about Internet deliberation, I. I felt is that, well, I'm a digital citizen of the world. I'm a. I'm a citizen of the world in this virtual world that no one knows. You know, no one would discriminate me in a way that, let's say, if I don't have a passport or if my passport is from Afghanistan, I can browse and go anywhere I want to go. And, you know, I don't have to ask for permission from people to go to these places. In this virtual world, I can have my own identity. And that was very empowering to me that I could do that through learning about coding, graphic design, and how to.
- [22:45]
A
Use Internet to that point. Do you feel learning code ultimately healed your refugee wound because it's now made you, as you've said, a citizen of the globe?
- [22:56]
B
Exactly. Yes. And I felt that I am now part of something that everyone can be without being discriminated. You only need to have a laptop or an Internet connections, and the world is yours, and you can travel virtually wherever where you want to go. And also people from any part of the world can hear your voice and you can tell them how you feel.
- [23:23]
A
Do you believe code could become a language of revolution for others?
- [23:27]
B
Yes, because that can be. To me, I always say that education is a force that can change the lives of people, and technology can be that tool that can overcome a lot of the systematic discriminations that people are facing. So if we combine Education and technology together, it can be a driving force for a lot of things, even for peace and stability. As I said, when all these girls in our coding school learn coding, graphic design, not only this is a skill they learn, but also through this language and through this tool, they're actually challenging the different systems around the world, different discriminations around the world, perhaps with the solutions that they can actually create and the products that they can create and offer to the world as well.
- [24:24]
A
You've described technology as a lifeline. For you personally, how has technology been less about machines and more about survival, connection, or even this point of belonging?
- [24:36]
B
I could say a community. Building a community, even online and virtual, to bypass the borders, these geographical boundaries was something very fascinating for me, using technology and Internet. A bridge that could. A bridge. You could build a bridge and you could, you know, cross a lot of distances. Even though if you're a refugee or if you are in exile and you are not able really to go back to, you know, your country and a place that you have some connections with. This virtual world that. That I created for myself and I brought these people, I feel like it's more like a survival shelter for all of us where we all share the same purpose, perhaps same runes, and we come under this umbrella and shelter mutually to support and heal each other.
- [25:39]
A
What do you remember as the first time technology truly saved you, or at least you had the realization technology was the agent of change that allowed you to be saved?
- [25:48]
B
When I was able to meet people from different part of the world, and when I heard how encouraging they are to me and my work and what I did, I felt that I'm not that insignificant. There are people in this world that they eagerly hear about me, my story, and are encouraging me and supporting me, and even in more extensive way offered their support how they can help me to. To move forward. And that was very heartwarming to me to see that without even seeing any one of them face to face. They believed in me and they wanted to support me and be there for me.
- [26:31]
A
The world often speaks about Afghan girls in terms of loss, what they cannot do, what they're not allowed to do. What do you see in them that the world still refuses to see?
- [26:43]
B
Unfortunately, as long as I remember the world and the, let's say, public media always were very unkind to Afghanistan, Iraqan people. As long as I remember, in the mainstream media, news and people, Afghanistan always has been portrayed as a place that it's war, destruction. It's always very black and gray image and picture of Afghanistan I won't deny the fact that, yes, Afghanistan went through decades of war destruction, and especially now with the Taliban taking over the country again, and women and girls are being deprived of their basic human rights that they have. But there's a lot of stories, very inspiring, uplifting stories, that happening in the country. And instead of shedding lights on those stories, we still try to talk about the dark part of Afghanistan. And sadly, I think that what sell the news and have more views and we don't try to change the narrative that even in the darkness there are lights and things that you can find. And what I see in the girls of Afghanistan, it's not loss, it's more about them pushing the narrative of a structure that even if you're being oppressed, even if everything is taking away from you, if you have faith in yourself and the path that you're doing, there's just still a lot of things that you can continue and carry. So I don't look at it as a loss. I look at it as a way that they are challenging this system and eventually this system will fall apart because these young women have faith in themselves and just keep moving forward.
- [28:55]
A
Do you think the world's pity for Afghan girls sometimes blinds it to their power, their inner light?
- [29:04]
B
Yes, absolutely. I always, when I go and talk to people about our work, and especially if people come to us to give some coding or graphic design and animation work that our students can do remotely and get paid, I always tell them that don't look at our girls and students in a pity way. Don't feel pity for them, and don't think that, oh, I feel bad for her, so let's just give her a job. I don't want you to give her a job because of like feeling pity for her. I want you to give her a job because she is talented. She is as of a good coder as any coder in any part of the world or a graphic designer. So you are giving her this job because she's intelligent, because she's smart, because she can deliver the project professionally. I want you to give the job to her because of that. And, and I, and I would not appreciate if you look at them in that way. And, and I think that's what the world leaning towards, this feeling of pitiness and thinking that it's. They are like hopeless. And, and, you know, and, and that actually is the worst because you're not seeing them as who they really are. You're just projecting what you feel about them. On the.
- [30:31]
A
Do you believe Afghan girls Carry within them the seed of a different Afghanistan. You've given us some conversation about how becoming a global citizen through the liberation of technology changed your view. But as we know, there are many girls left in Afghanistan who maybe still haven't learned that that's a possibility for those who are staying home as the primary breadwinners. Do you see within them the seed of a deep, different Afghanistan or a different future for their homeland?
- [31:05]
B
Yes, absolutely. I think what I've learned during this whole process is time and patience. These are the two important keys that I personally myself learned a lot, that if you are patient and if you trust the timing and if you're consistent, you will get to where you want. Even you will get to a place that it's much better than what you imagine for yourself. And I've been doing this work for almost 10 years, a decade. And if I want to compare from the day I started this work where everyone didn't believe in what I wanted to do, and even a lot of girls didn't believe in themselves that they can do something to now, then we've educated more than 11, 60 girls in different coding, graphic design classes. So this is all about not only they were the seeds that we planted, but now many of them are now being their own strong tree that they come to fruition. And now they are not only helping themselves, but also their families. So eventually, when you look at the time and adding the element of being patient but consistent, things will change. Nothing will be here forever. Even at the moment that everything look very dark in Afghanistan and you think that's the end of it. I'm still hopeful that this woman and any other woman in Afghanistan are the force that they will bring again peace and stability to Afghanistan.
- [32:49]
A
Mentorship runs deep in CTI graduates becoming teachers. What does it do to you when you watch that circle close and begin again?
- [33:01]
B
It's always the. I always wanted to create a space that they feel, a sisterhood among each other. I wanted to create a space that they don't feel that they have to compete to each other, that they show that they are worthy enough. Instead, I wanted to create a space that we can hold each other hands and uplift. It's like when I climb a ladder and when I get to the top of the ladder, I, you know, offer my hand to the person at the bottom of the ladder and then I push her to come move forward. So this is about how we can create this sisterhood among these women so that they can support each other and give back. I'm Very honored and also very proud to see that some of our graduates, we were able to rehire them and hire them as a mentor, and now they are a role model for other students that come and look at them and they see that we can get there as well. So it's just, you know, this very, I would say, sacred space of sisterhood that we want to bring all these girls into so that they feel comfortable and happy and just be themselves.
- [34:23]
A
I would imagine that watching your graduates teach feels something like your own rebirth. Do you believe that mentorship is as much a medicine to those wounded by political tides or social influences as it is actual education?
- [34:43]
B
Yes, because each time when you are a student, you're learning something. And then when you become a mentor, you carry that wisdom in you, but perhaps in a different way. And then you give that wisdom and experience and knowledge to the next person, and then that person inherit that wisdom, knowledge from you, and then they will combine it with their own wisdom and knowledge and experience and then pass it to someone else. So it's almost like a loop, an infinite loop that will exist as long as, you know, people can carry that sense of, you know, belonging to this circle and then passing their knowledge to other people. So, and, and, and, and yes, it makes you very happy. It's kind of like when you plant a seed and then you see it grow, and then you can use the seed of the fruit of that tree, perhaps to replant more trees. So that's, that's just very fulfilling to witness that.
- [35:48]
A
Now, you embraced crypto long before it was fashionable. When you made that decision, was it strategic or was it born out of necessity and survival?
- [35:59]
B
I would say both. But I would say there's definitely, like, the survival element first, because as a refugee, at least in my case, we weren't allowed to open a bank account, and many refugees weren't allowed to do certain jobs in Iran or even have access to basic phone. So you're technically being excluded from the ecosystem of the community and be part of this, the ecosystem, you know, to be able to access resources. And also, like when you're a refugee, what's the first thing that you take with yourself out of that place is your life. You leave everything else behind. It can be a lot of your educational documentations, anything. So it makes it almost impossible for you to be able to access to these traditional financial institutions, such as bank to open an account, because they require a lot of identifications and they have this lengthy KYC process. So your chance to be able to open a Bank account is very minimum. Even if you want to send money, let's say to your family outside, the fee for transactions is too high. And it's also difficult if they go and get the cash. If someone notice that you're carrying cash, then that can be also create some sort of, you know, security concern for you. But when we look particularly at women and girls in this scenario, that women and girls are always systematically are the first people and children who become targeted of any oppressive regime, then even for opening a bank account, perhaps you have to go and have a male guardian with you. So you're technically very isolated, even if you have the skill sets to access the global economy. When I learned about cryptocurrency at the time Bitcoin in 2013, I was very fascinated by it because the only thing that you needed to create an account or crypto wallet for yourself was an email address. And if you were able to do that, you were able to send and receive crypto. And that was so fascinating to me that how none discriminative this system can be to you and towards anyone who can manage and that how disruptive that technology can be in case of privacy, security and supporting unbanked people around the world to be able to in a safe and secure way receive crypto. And that's how we started leveraging crypto not only as a tool for survival, but also as a tool for overcome these man made barriers for people that are not able to access financial resources.
- [39:09]
A
So to that end you believe crypto is not just finance, but a kind of quiet rebellion?
- [39:15]
B
Yes, absolutely. I think that's a very, to me, I think that's a liberating tool for human rights to be able to be financially free and don't be targeted in an oppressive regime.
- [39:32]
A
So with how much conjecture there is about the stability of crypto, did you ever in the past or presently feel the weight of trust that if this fails then lives might collapse?
- [39:45]
B
I would say yes and no, because crypto to me and now the world of crypto has changed a lot since the time I learned about it. Now there's like a lot of different coins out there. There's different tokens and smart contracts and even stable coins. And when the stable coin came to the market, it actually overcome the challenge of the fluctuation and you know, the bitcoin price being volatile or any crypto. I believe in this technology in the longer term and I believe that that's a liberating tool for a lot of people. As I see in my own case not only that we send crypto to Afghanistan to pay for our operational cost in the school since 2020, but also we send crypto to our girls who do remote work. And the feedback that we get from our students, and they say they felt very liberated, very free, that they own something that no one else know about it, and they own something that they are the only one who can access to it. And that feeling of, you know, being able to possess something that no one else know about it, it's something that not a lot of girls and women in Afghanistan experience. And that's very empowering because then they know that they are. There are opportunities for them out there in the world that they can, you know, access within these tools and medium. And I think that's about dignity, you know, that's about their dignity. They feel. They feel, you know, they feel that. They feel value in themselves. They feel that they're, you know, someone worthy of again, being invested and being, you know, access to these tools that can liberate them from a lot of oppressions.
- [41:49]
A
With the rebellious nature that most of your endeavors in CTI happen to instill in the minds and hearts of others, it's very clear that you're at the bleeding edge of new and innovative philosophies, attitudes towards the technological sector. To that end, how is CTI approaching AI and making the best use of it?
- [42:14]
B
Yes, it's a very good question because as we are seeing that now, AI is almost everywhere and we use it in very simple tasks and stuff in our life to more complicated things. Of course, our coding school, as of now, focus a lot on basic fundamental of programming and codings, you know, like web development, mobile application design and graphic design and things like that. But we are very aware of the changes that the AI is bringing to the especially coding and programming. And we are evaluating our work, the way we approach our content and curriculum, and we are brainstorming that in what capacity we can incorporate AI in a very ethical way so that the students and our mentors would be able to use the AI tools in a way that help them to become more professional, but also open more doors and opportunities for work for them so that we can keep up with the trending and, you know, new tools and techniques that are now in the market.
- [43:32]
A
Do you see space for CTI to apply AI technology or projects in a way that is different from the educational models that you've presented?
- [43:45]
B
Yes. For example, we are building an online tech education for not only the girls and women in Afghanistan, but also men or anyone with Any background, gender identity that they want to join to offer free tech education in different languages so that they can access and AI would be part of it. Although I can say again that nothing can replace the face to face and in person interaction. But with the circumstances in Afghanistan where the girls and women, how we can create a virtual community in a way that still the girls and the women who are going to join that platform feel that they belong to this space. And using AI, a virtual mentor or maybe a virtual guide or a mutual friend on that platform that can listen to you, that can guide you and help you, can maybe be one way that we can address that as well. The same as a mental health crisis that the girls and women are facing in Afghanistan and how AI can be a tool to address that and support additional, you know, guidance and resources for the girls.
- [45:08]
A
And you feel this is innovative because most of the sort of mental health care that's available in the west isn't currently available to women in Afghanistan.
- [45:18]
B
I would say kind of because the trauma, the mental health stress that the girls and women are facing in Afghanistan, it's been generational and it's been passed through generation to them. And I think a lot of the time when we want to talk about mental health, we should think about what does this mental health mean for someone who've been living in a constant fear of a conflict zone, areas that has always been in war, areas that always women being oppressed. That's a whole different aspects of the mental health crisis that we, we should think about rather than just like very generic, you know, practices that we offer to, to people.
- [46:12]
A
You've referenced Rumi a couple of times since we started and I also am a fan. One of my favorite lines that I know you have used in the past is where there is ruin, there is hope for great treasure. What treasure do you think you've uncovered in yourself along this path?
- [46:32]
B
It's a interesting one. I love this quote from Rumi. I always say that when I go to conferences and I would say that there's two things in this. One, when we look at ruins, we always think about destructions and there's nothing valuable to find in this ruin because it's just like or pile of things. But if you dig in into the ruins, you may find unexpectedly something very precious in it and that gives meaning to that ruin. So for me, the treasure in this ruin is one the girls in Afghanistan, because Afghanistan always being recognized as a ruined land to people. But if we dig in and we see that there are girls and Women who are the treasures in this ruin. And by investing in them, giving them the resources, they, they, you know, their presence become more, become more valuable to themselves and then the community. But also for myself, it's the same as, as a refugee, the womb that I said earlier, it can be related also to the ruin, you know, in, in you. And what I uncovered in this ruin was patience for me. And I believe that if you have enough patience, that patience will turn that ruins or runes into wisdom for you. And by carrying that wisdom, you eventually will find more treasure within yourself. And that treasure can, you know, heal you. And, and I, and I find it as like a spiritual gift maybe to myself that I was able to, to find.
- [48:55]
A
I love that. You know, on that topic, that concept of patience, Rumi says that patience is not sitting and waiting, it is foreseeing. It is looking at the thorn and seeing the rose, looking at the night and seeing the day. Has that treasure that you've discovered always been visible to you or only in hindsight, as though you are within your own mind? Looking at the night and seeing the day.
- [49:23]
B
It's interesting. I think I had my moments with finding that treasure or you know, seeing the day after the dark. Sometimes I would become very impatient, actually very upset, very fearful, very angry. And I sometimes questioned myself of why I'm doing this. I could have easily find a job in a Tech Corporate Company, 9 to 5, get a good salary and then, you know, live my life. Why I decided to go a totally different path, which everything that I built was from scratch. And there's really not a lot of monetary incentive here because the work I do is a non profit. But there's more human element in this. And there were moments that I had doubts in this patience and I had doubts that really, you know, after a night can come a, you know, a better day or see that. But, but I think what I learned is that I let those feelings be with me. I acknowledge them, I let them come in. As Rumi says that like when you wake up in the morning and you see these unwanted guests like fear, sadness, let them come in and let them entertain you because each of them is a guide from behind. So I accept them and I listen to them. I don't want to push them away. And those, those moments actually that I'm being now, patience with those feelings, actually it's very fulfilling. And then I feel much lighter and better the few days after when I let this go through me.
- [51:31]
A
Do you think the treasure you've uncovered in yourself is one you now carry for all Afghan women, maybe. I would say that now, standing with a decade of CTI behind you, what still keeps you awake at night? Not in fear, but in longing. Not in trepidation, but perhaps in a continued vision.
- [51:54]
B
It's definitely freedom, you know, freedom for my students, for women, not only in Afghanistan, but everywhere, that the women are being silenced, you know, and just them being able to live a life that they deserve, you know, that they supposed to do. And I want to be strong, and I want to be strong enough in a way that I would be able to keep moving forward. Sometimes I feel great that would I be able to continue this work for another 10 year or two or more. I just don't know. And that makes me a bit fearful because I think, what if I won't be able to continue that? What gonna happen to those girls? And for that I need to, you know, just encourage myself to. To be able to. To continue what I'm doing and ask for guidance and enlightenment, you know, from God, from whoever is in my life that helped me to be who I am today, and. And I think that's something that helped me to keep moving forward.
- [53:27]
A
A fantastic note to start wrapping up with. Whose voice do you hear when you are thinking? I need words of wisdom. I need inspiration. I need to find some way to believe that this longing within me is the fuel that will sustain me and my future. Whose voice do you go back to and what did they tell you?
- [53:50]
B
I hear myself. I hear myself. That says that you've done more than what you could have imagined initially, and you really didn't think you're going to make it until here, but you made it. So just be patient, trust your timing, and be kind to people. And that's how you can move forward and live the life of fulfillment and the way that you can, you know, heal and support other people. I think that's what I hear.
- [54:29]
A
That's fantastic. And your story is such a remarkable one that I could sit here forever. Before we close, would you like to direct our listeners to a specific website for cti?
- [54:44]
B
Yes. So if anyone is interested to check our work and learn more about what we do, or interested to offer any help and support, they can check our website. It's code to inspire.org and they can reach out to us through email. And I'm happy to provide any information they need.
- [55:05]
A
That's fantastic. Thank you so much for sitting with me. I have really enjoyed our chat today and I'm hoping to talk to you again very, very soon.
- [55:14]
B
Absolutely. Same Here. Thank you so much.
- [55:17]
A
Take care.
- [55:18]
B
Thank you.
- [55:25]
A
That was Foreshte Farrot, visionary, educator and witness to the courage of Afghan girls who dare to imagine a different tomorrow. In her voice, we hear not only resilience, but the quiet insistence that hope is still possible, even in the darkest of places. For me, and I pray for you as well, this conversation reminds us that we're Resilience is not an abstraction. It is a woman opening a laptop in the dark, daring to reprogram her future. It is the act of choosing possibility where none was promised. Today I got the sense that the very unique circumstances surrounding Foreshta's life made her more dedicated to fighting what worked against her than anything else. As a middle child, as a refugee, as a woman displaced. Over and over again, I recognized that her journey, her trials, her difficulties instilled in her a reverence for the very things she was fighting against. The injuries she suffered, the challenges she recognized and adapted to were elevated to something unique, something that helped her learn when the world around her seemed so ignorant of what she was going through and disinterested in what she faced. I personally have always believed that tenacity and diligence were the most useful traits that we as a species could ever manifest. And through them, finding new hope and new opportunities was fairly automatic. I believe that it is true for all humans that the obstacle is the way, as Marcus Aurelius taught us before we part ways today, if this conversation stirred something in you or offered a spark of insight, would you take just a moment to share that light back? Leave us a rating or review on Apple podcasts. It's one of the simplest ways to help the ab observable unknown reach new seekers and fellow travelers. Your words matter more than you know, and they will help this circle grow. Until next time, Remember, what appears unknowable often stands right before us, waiting to be observed through both the lens of science and the wisdom of spirit. This is Dr. Juan Carlos Rey of crowscoper.com inviting you to look deeper into the observable unknown.