The Observable Unknown – "Moe Choice"
Host: Dr. Juan Carlos Rey
Guest: Mo Choice
Date: February 24, 2026
Episode Overview
This episode of The Observable Unknown explores the nuanced space where science meets spirituality, focusing on how hidden influences and inner narratives shape reality—especially in the context of entrepreneurship and personal transformation. Dr. Juan Carlos Rey welcomes guest Mo Choice, an experienced solopreneur and coach, for a deep-dive on burnout, the search for meaning, evolving self-concept, and the continual dance between freedom and responsibility. Their candid exchange offers listeners practical insights, philosophical reflections, and tools for greater integrity and alignment in work and life.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Understanding Burnout – A Personal Account
- Somatic and Emotional Toll ([01:57–05:03])
- Mo describes "burnout" as a collapse across all dimensions—physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, and social.
"I couldn't face the world...I couldn't get out of bed. I didn't want to talk to anyone." (Mo, 01:57)
- Somatic symptoms included insomnia, heavy drinking, headaches, mouth ulcers, and skin problems, which Mo later interpreted as physical manifestations of living out of integrity.
"I remember developing this...wart below my lip...a physical manifestation of me not telling the truth." (Mo, 03:44)
- Mo did not initially seek help, seeing the collapse as a personal flaw rather than a symptom.
- Mo describes "burnout" as a collapse across all dimensions—physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, and social.
2. Language, Meaning, and Unpacking “Freedom”
- Precision in Defining Experience ([05:15–07:48])
- Mo emphasizes the importance of clarifying what people mean when they use words like "freedom" or "stress"—asking them to identify somatic, emotional, and mental cues.
"It's super important to get super clear on what someone's internal world is and why they're picking the words..." (Mo, 05:15)
- On helping clients: Success is not about hitting a preconceived goal, but about clarity and alignment with true desires—even if those shift.
- Mo emphasizes the importance of clarifying what people mean when they use words like "freedom" or "stress"—asking them to identify somatic, emotional, and mental cues.
3. Expansion vs. Safety, Scale vs. Growth
- Misconceptions About Growth ([07:48–09:15])
- Mo uncovers how "scale" is often misused as a buzzword, conflated with growth, but true scaling is about increasing impact with less resource expenditure.
"That's the idea of scale...having your needs and your desires met without having to expend more energy." (Mo, 07:57)
- Mo uncovers how "scale" is often misused as a buzzword, conflated with growth, but true scaling is about increasing impact with less resource expenditure.
4. Productivity Myths and Data-Driven Clarity
- False Productivity & Avoidance ([09:25–11:45])
- Many behaviors that appear productive are actually distractions rooted in discomfort with necessary but challenging tasks.
"I'm just going to go and update my logo or change my website banner...to avoid doing what's necessary." (Mo, 10:51)
- Many behaviors that appear productive are actually distractions rooted in discomfort with necessary but challenging tasks.
5. Positioning, Relevancy, and Parental Scripts
- Root Causes of Attention-Seeking ([11:45–15:15])
- Deep-seated drives for external validation often trace back to the drive to be "good enough to be loved," rooted in parental judgments and approval.
"If you don't care about what your parents think, then you're not going to care about what anyone else thinks." (Mo, 11:57)
- Recommends having honest conversations with parental figures (literal or symbolic) to address these underlying beliefs.
- Deep-seated drives for external validation often trace back to the drive to be "good enough to be loved," rooted in parental judgments and approval.
6. The Nature of Clarity and Alignment
- Three Core Problems ([15:33–19:26])
- Clarity arises from alignment among: what you want, how you'll get it, and what you do next.
"If you know what to do, take that action, take the next step. And if you don’t know what to do, take the next step." (Mo, 18:42)
- Distinguishes between external details and internal experience ("engaged, creative, loved" vs. house/money/kids).
- Clarity arises from alignment among: what you want, how you'll get it, and what you do next.
7. Unlearning and Rewriting Old Scripts
- Origins of Self-Limiting Beliefs ([19:42–22:26])
- Mo identified and released beliefs like "I have to be in charge" and "I have no talent."
- These scripts often stemmed from observing parental strategies (control, pleasing, avoiding).
8. Evolving Through Mentorship
- New Scripts and Team Dynamics ([22:46–24:25])
- Mo now values that team members bring their own context and limitations, moving from dichotomous thinking ("only I care") to acceptance and cooperation.
9. Solopreneurship as a Search for Wholeness
- Company-Building vs. Story-Repair ([24:35–26:04])
- Most solopreneurs attracted to Mo's work are seeking to meet human needs and validate their own worth, rather than building legacy companies.
"Am I good enough to create a life on my own terms? Am I good enough to do that?" (Mo, 25:22)
- Most solopreneurs attracted to Mo's work are seeking to meet human needs and validate their own worth, rather than building legacy companies.
10. Freedom vs. Independence: Avoiding Semantic Traps
- Moments of Freedom and the Value of Independence ([26:15–28:06])
- Mo prefers to discuss independence rather than freedom, emphasizing ability to think and act without dependence on particular people, thus creating more moments of freedom.
11. Process vs. Outcome and the Myth of Passivity
- Shortcuts and Engagement ([28:06–31:43])
- Many are looking for "shortcuts to laziness," caring only for the destination, not the process.
- True fulfillment requires full engagement with the work itself—not just the reward.
12. Mastery, Passion, and the Allure of Breadth
- Ordinary vs. Extraordinary ([31:43–36:49])
- Ordinary is comfortable but surface-level; mastery is achieved through depth, intentionality, and willingness to suffer for the right purpose.
"People prefer to not try and not fail than to try and fail...If I don’t set a goal, I can’t fail." (Mo, 35:33)
- Cultural forces encourage generalization over mastery.
- Ordinary is comfortable but surface-level; mastery is achieved through depth, intentionality, and willingness to suffer for the right purpose.
13. Avoiding Toxic Intensity: Alignment & Integrity
- Integrity as the Antidote ([37:00–38:45])
- "Toxicity comes from misalignment...Without integrity, nothing matters. With integrity, nothing matters." (Quote cited by Mo, 37:29 & 38:15)
- Alignment with one's values and truth prevents burnout and toxicity.
14. Authority, Coaching, and the “Six-Year-Old Self”
- Relating to Guidance ([39:16–41:56])
- Clients thrive when seen as individuals. Mo uses metaphors and conversational styles to speak directly to the playful, unconditioned six-year-old self in clients, bypassing adult defenses.
15. Power of Language: NLP, Reframing, and Behavioral Change
- Neuro-Linguistic Programming as Foundation ([41:56–43:35])
- Changing language transforms experience and behavior. Mo uses NLP to reframe limiting beliefs and habitual narratives.
"If I can change the words, I can change the world. Isn’t that unbelievable?" (Mo, 41:56)
- Changing language transforms experience and behavior. Mo uses NLP to reframe limiting beliefs and habitual narratives.
16. Integrating Broader Modalities
- Ongoing Learning and Practice ([46:21–48:52])
- Mo has layered NLP with Socratic dialogue, psychology, Nonviolent Communication, Family Constellations, and more to refine his supportive approach.
17. Family Dynamics Played Out Professionally
- Transference and Projection ([48:52–50:26])
- Many recreate parental dynamics in work or mentorship settings. Mo’s approach: shift away from "should/shouldn't" paradigm toward agency—"what do you want?"
18. Burnout, Collapse, and Rebirth: A Metaphorical Death
- From Corruption to Alignment ([50:26–51:25])
- Mo’s personal turning point was seeing himself as "a corrupted individual who told lies"—necessitating a metaphorical death and rebirth.
"I had to kill my old self...to be reborn as the person I was meant to be." (Mo, 50:53)
- Mo’s personal turning point was seeing himself as "a corrupted individual who told lies"—necessitating a metaphorical death and rebirth.
19. Loss, Isolation, and the Reconstruction of Relationships
- Navigating the Aftermath ([51:25–53:16])
- Transformation often results in losing existing relationships. Mo rebuilt his connections, including a more honest relationship with parents after hard conversations.
20. Shame, Guilt, and the Drive for Independence
- Decision-Making Under the Weight of Emotions ([53:29–57:57])
- The distinction between guilt and shame; guilt is more common, and independence (from people and approval) is the ultimate goal.
"How do I become independent at every level of analysis?...What I saw from them when I presented them with who I really was...gave me the information I needed." (Mo, 55:48)
- The distinction between guilt and shame; guilt is more common, and independence (from people and approval) is the ultimate goal.
21. Solitude vs. Loneliness and Self-Containment
- Choosing Deep Connection ([57:57–59:33])
- Mo values solitude and self-relationship, asserting that integrity means you're "whole" in yourself and not relying on shallow interactions for validation.
22. Practical Steps Toward Integrity
- Three Essential Questions for Alignment ([60:26–61:27])
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- What do you want your life to look like, experientially?
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- What principles will you follow, especially when inconvenient?
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- Stay in action and progress by aligning these elements.
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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On Somatic Truths:
- "A physical manifestation of me not telling the truth." (Mo, 03:44)
- On Parental Approval:
- "If you don’t care about what your parents think, then you’re not going to care about what anyone else thinks." (Mo, 11:57)
- On Integrity:
- "Without integrity, nothing matters. With integrity, nothing matters." (Attributed by Mo, 38:15)
- On Craft and Mastery:
- "Simplicity and beauty is achieved through mastery." (Mo, 32:58)
- On Beliefs and Change:
- "You have no real evidence that they are unconditionally true. So change them. Believe in the things that help you." (Mo, 13:53)
- On Self-Understanding:
- "I had to kill my old self, my old corrupted self, to be reborn as the person I was meant to be." (Mo, 50:53)
Key Timestamps & Content Sections
- [01:57] Mo’s personal account of burnout and its manifestations
- [05:15] Importance of precise language in coaching and self-inquiry
- [07:57] The difference between scale and growth
- [09:25] Productivity myths and self-sabotaging habits
- [11:57] Parental approval and the roots of relevancy seeking
- [15:33] Clarity and alignment: the three core existential questions
- [19:42] Unlearning family scripts
- [24:35] Solopreneurship as a quest for self-worth
- [26:15] Freedom versus independence
- [31:43] Mastery versus surface-level engagement
- [37:00] The relationship between integrity, alignment, and toxicity
- [39:16] Coaching through relating to the “six-year-old self”
- [41:56] NLP as transformative practice
- [46:40] Integration of multiple modalities
- [50:53] Rebirth through the death of old self
- [53:29] Guilt, shame, and the journey toward independence
- [60:35] The three core steps to reclaiming integrity
Resources & Further Connection
- Find Mo Choice on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/moechoice
- Special Listener Masterclass & Resources: MoChoice.com/podcast
This episode offers a richly layered perspective on inner transformation, business, authenticity, and overcoming deep-rooted beliefs—relevant both to solopreneurs and anyone seeking a life aligned with their true values.