The Observable Unknown
Host: Dr. Juan Carlos Rey
Guest: Salima Adelstein, Sufi Spiritual Guide
Episode Date: March 26, 2026
Episode Theme: Where Science Meets the Mystical – Lived Mechanics of Spiritual Transformation
Overview
This episode explores the fertile intersection between science and spirituality, focusing on Sufism as a lived path of transformation and healing. Dr. Juan Carlos Rey hosts Salima Adelstein, a renowned Sufi spiritual guide, to discuss how ancient contemplative practices—rooted in both mystical tradition and embodied experience—can act as powerful tools for healing, nervous system regulation, personal wholeness, and even collective peace. The conversation focuses on Sufism’s direct experiential approach to the divine, the neuro-psychological implications of “the language of the heart,” and how spiritual technology can remain relevant—and regulating—in a chronically overstimulated modern world.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
The Direct Experience of Sufism
- Sufism as Lived Experience
- Not just poetry or abstraction, but a "tasting" of the divine within one's own being (02:06).
- “What Sufism teaches is it’s actually inside of you as well as everything else in the Universe.” — Salima Adelstein [02:25]
- The injunction: Everything around us reflects our inner state. Purification of self leads toward truth and peace.
Signs of Real Spiritual Change
- Perceptual Shifts
- Somatic sensations—“goosebumps,” “flashes of brilliant white light,” or “an overall sense of pure unconditional love”—signal spiritual authenticity (03:45).
- Spiritual transformation often occurs gradually via “purification and transformation through the 28 stations of the soul” (04:22).
Personal Journey & Transformation
- From Jewish Roots to Sufi Practice
- Salima recounts a search for deeper truth beyond religious or cultural boundaries, culminating in meeting a Sufi master who changed her worldview (05:31–09:00).
- Introduction to the four cosmological realms of Sufism: Mulk (material world), Malakut (angelic realm), Jabirut (divine virtues), Lahut (pure divine intelligence) (07:30).
- Key moment: Working with the dying brings the realization, “all there is is love.” (09:00)
Heart as an Organ of Knowing
- Neurocardiac Wisdom
- “The heart regulates not only our nervous system but has a wisdom beyond what our mind knows.” — Salima Adelstein [09:35]
- Distinction: The intellect discerns, but the heart harmonizes—leading to experiences of unity (10:15).
Core Sufi Practice: Remembrance (Zikr)
- Embodied Attention and Regulation
- Practice involves hand on heart, deep breathing, and the repetition of sacred sound (“Ah…La”), designed to shift awareness from mind to heart (14:26–16:30).
- “You can’t experience and know what your heart is saying to you if you’re not in your body.” — Salima Adelstein [12:30]
- Not simply meditation, but an integrative, embodied, vibrational approach.
The Five C’s of Sufism (Practical Path)
- Components for Transformation
- Consciousness, Connection, Clarity, Commitment, and Communication—each supported by videos/exercises for personal work (Sufi5.com) (16:42–17:40).
Healing and Self-Love
- Markers of True Healing
- Real healing begins when “people feel they can love themselves again… not based on anything from the outside” (13:23).
- Effectiveness: Example of heart arrhythmia resolving after one hour of Sufi invocation (13:52).
Distinction Between Absorption and Dissociation
- Spiritual vs. Psychological Safety
- Sufi practices aim to ground attention in the body, avoiding “leaving the body” or unhealthy dissociation (12:13).
Spiritual Practice as Nervous System Regulator
- Addressing Modern Overstimulation
- Sufi remembrance (zikr) specifically highlighted as effective for anxiety and overstimulation, helping the nervous system “return to peace” (19:05).
- Physiological resonance: Repetition of sacred names aligns with specific psychological needs (e.g., "Salam" for peace, "Mukmin" for trust) (19:40).
- “There’s a healer within and you’re awakening that healer within to heal yourself.” — Salima Adelstein [20:25]
Commitment Versus Instrumental Use
- Caution Against Spiritual Sampling
- The risk of “digging twenty-five shallow holes” vs. deep commitment to a tradition (Sufi anecdote, 20:38).
- Authentic transformation requires dedication (“the difference between dating and getting married” to a practice).
Unity Consciousness: Real vs. Imagined
- Genuine Unity
- Not intellectual or emotional wishful thinking, but a direct, experiential perception—literally “hearing the sounds of nature as praise” (22:00).
- Sufism emphasizes staying functionally present in the world rather than escaping daily reality (22:47).
Holding Presence: Stillness vs. Uncertainty
- Training in the Unknown
- Sufism teaches safety and peace “in the unknown,” training practitioners to hold both stillness and confrontation with uncertainty (24:12).
From Inner Healing to Collective Peace
- Micro to Macro
- Healing perceptions of separation diminishes collective conflict (24:44).
- Example: Salima’s own journey confronting intergenerational conditioning around “the enemy” while living among Palestinians (25:00).
- “It’s that fear that starts wars. If we don’t start healing that within ourselves, we’re ultimately going to destroy humanity.” — Salima Adelstein [26:25]
Grace, Transmission, and the Reality of Suffering
- Grace is Not Bypass
- Moments of grace or transmission should not become “spiritual bypasses” for human pain or trauma (27:54).
- Suffering reframed as “a doorway… a window into a possibility” for deeper realization (32:30).
- “There is no I in healing. God is the healer, and I am the empty vessel allowing that to move through.” — Salima Adelstein [33:48]
Family, Identity, and Challenge
- Personal Adjustments
- Salima shares the difficulty of family estrangement and eventual reconciliation through authentic transformation (34:41).
- Touching story of parental support despite not following an expected career path (36:05).
What Makes Sufi Practice Unique
- Integration with Everyday Life
- Sufi remembrance can be done “while walking, dancing, even in traffic”—constant presence rather than a practice limited to formal sessions (37:57).
- The core: “The secrets are inside, just waiting to come to be treasures in your life.” — Salima Adelstein [39:00]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “You think you’re a small star, when in fact you comprise the entire universe.” — Salima Adelstein (02:20)
- “I often say to my students, you can’t experience and know what your heart is saying to you if you’re not in your body.” (12:30)
- “All there is is love.” (A message from the dying, as recounted by Salima, 09:00)
- “Healing is not necessarily about being cured. Healing is about being whole.” (33:52)
- “If anybody’s interested in Sufism…take the commitment to dig deep.” (20:38)
- “There aren’t boundaries on our globe. There’s one beautiful earth. And right now, we’re destroying it.” (27:25)
- “My mom could only understand it from the change she saw in me. She said, ‘I only know I have never, never seen her happier.’” (34:41)
- “The secrets are inside, just waiting to come to be treasures in your life and jewels to live your life in a richness that you’ve never known before.” (39:00)
Timestamps for Important Topics
- Introduction and Guest Intro: 00:04–02:06
- What Changes with Sufi Practice: 02:06–03:36
- Signs of Spiritual Shift: 03:36–04:22
- Personal Transformation Journey: 05:26–09:27
- The Heart as an Organ of Knowing: 09:27–10:53
- Sufi Practice Mechanics: 11:02–14:26
- Guided Remembrance Exercise: 14:26–16:39
- The Five C’s & Resources: 16:42–17:40
- Regulating Anxiety and Overstimulation: 18:17–20:28
- Commitment to Depth vs. Sampling: 20:38–21:49
- Unity Consciousness (Real vs. False): 22:00–22:41
- Presence in the Unknown: 24:01–24:33
- Inner Transformation & World Peace: 24:33–27:42
- Grace, Suffering, and Healing: 27:54–34:32
- Family, Identity, and Challenge: 34:41–36:03
- Sufi Practice Distinctions: 37:57–39:18
Resources & Further Practice
- Five C’s of Sufism Mini-Course: Sufi5.com
- Contact the Host: TheObservableUnknown@gmail.com
Tone & Language
Salima Adelstein’s language is gentle, invitational, and deeply experiential; she emphasizes direct experience, personal commitment, and the integration of spiritual insight into the realities of everyday life. Dr. Rey’s interviewing style is respectful and analytical, maintaining a balance between academic inquiry and openness to embodied wisdom.
This rich conversation offers both inspiration and practical insight for anyone seeking to harmonize inner experience, heal divisions (inner and outer), and approach the unknown with both rigor and heart.