A (10:31)

Thank you for sharing. So, yeah.

B (10:34)

So you.

A (10:34)

You spent up to, what, 14? You're in the UK?

B (10:38)

Yeah, so I was about 12, 13 when I moved here. I remember because I had my 14th birthday here in Massachusetts, and I had an Adam Lambert T shirt on. So.

A (10:53)

Yeah. Okay, cool. So that would have been, obviously, a key time in your life. And what was that change, like, leaving the UK and I guess people you knew and all of that?

B (11:04)

Honestly, that was a really difficult change. I had spent all my life there until my younger sister. She was about 9 or 10 at the time. And so we moved here when there was three weeks left in this. In the school year. So I had gone to three weeks of American middle school and, like, graduated, as much as I can say that. And so it was a really big culture shock. It was really sad leaving all of my family. We're very close with my family. We would visit very frequently, and it was really tough. I had a lot of friends in England. I didn't know anyone here. I was a very socially anxious child. So making friends was not something I did very easily. And the culture difference between the UK and the US was huge, even down to just going to the grocery store. It's a very different experience going into Tesco's versus, like, Walmart or like stop and Shop. So it was really tough. It created a lot of. I think moving that young when you're a kid had a lot of impacts on you as you grow. I think I matured much faster than I initially would have if I had just grown up in England and stayed there. But moving kind of forces you to face a lot of really stressful factors, though. I really matured much faster than I think I would have otherwise. I think I skipped some important kind of, I guess, milestones, or not milestones, but kind of like growing up experiences. And it was a really big adjustment period, honestly. I think it took me, like, at least a couple years to feel like I was okay adjusting to the culture. But, yeah, it was a very. I would say that's a very big event in my life to impact, like, how I got here and especially my mental health story also.

A (13:07)

Yeah, because with the panic attacks in the States, they were. After you'd moved.

B (13:11)

Yeah, yeah.

A (13:14)

And then I think you said, Sorry, I think you said at the very beginning about you feel, in retrospect, maybe you've had OCD your whole life. So how did it show up in the earlier days?

B (13:25)

Yeah, so as a kid, I was always one of those kids that was like. I always got those comments that like, oh, you're very wise for your age, which is very like, oh, that's a weird child. Which, you know. Touche. So as a kid, I think I really was very. I was very socially anxious. That's number one. I think that fueled a lot of my ocd because I was in my head quite a lot. I think Harm OCD was very present throughout my childhood. I was very focused on whether I had accidentally offended someone or if someone got hurt because of me. And I would obsess about it even at night when I was going to sleep. I also, when I was a kid, I repeated a lot of things in my head and I had, like, certain superstitions about things that I could or couldn't do otherwise something terrible would happen. All of which I think is very normal because I'm like, I'm a kid. I just have a really active imagination, and that's totally fine. And then I didn't really have contamination tendencies or compulsions at that time. It was really more, I guess, what is now classified as, like, relationship ocd. I was really, really Focused on the harm and relationship OCD aspect as a kid, and it made me very anxious, especially socially. And then the mental kind of compulsions and superstitions that I was kind of dealing with internally, I now realize are just different forms of OCD in different flavors. Yeah.

A (15:00)

Yeah, absolutely. And so with your therapist now, what are you in erp what are you currently working on if you want to share?

B (15:09)

Yeah, so right now we're working on the contamination OCD part of it. So I. I guess the apartment cleaning. So I live with my. With my boyfriend, and we share an apartment with our little kitty cat and something that I've been struggling with a lot recently. We just got our cat. We got her in August of last year. But something I really struggle with is, like, cats, when they use kitty litter, get it all over their paws, and they get it all over the house. And so I now can't walk in the house without having socks on. I, like, won't walk. I won't walk barefoot in the house at all. And so right now, we're kind of working on. Well, first dealing with that and not vacuuming every second of every day. And then also we work on, like, smaller things, really also related to contamination ocd. And part of that is, you know, it might sound really small, but leaving dirty dishes in the sink, that really bothers me. And for someone who doesn't have OCD and ADDCs and dirty dishes and they're like, I'll clean those later. But for me, it makes me feel like my whole house is dirty, and it triggers compulsions for me to clean the kitchen for, like, two hours, which is completely out, of course, in response to a couple of dishes in the sink. And so as part of that, it's, you know, leaving maybe a couple, you know, teacups in there for, say, 10, 15 minutes and not washing them right away. The approach that my therapist and I take for exposure therapy is really graduated because we don't want to start with the most stressful things first. Okay, maybe you don't clean your house for an entire week. So we start with those, and that's kind of what we're focusing on now. I would say I'm still focusing on the small things because I find I kind of go through, like, cycles of where my stress and my OCD are really bad. And so I kind of have to decide when that's happening, if I want to focus more on relieving my stress or if I want to focus more on completing the exposure. So that's kind of where we're at right now.

A (17:36)

Yeah. Okay. And are you finding that you're making progress in it?

B (17:41)

I do find that I am making progress. My ocd, my harm OCD actually has been much better these days, which has been amazing because quite honestly, I find that much more exhausting than the contamination ocd, which sounds illogical because cleaning for hours is obviously way more physically exhausting, but mentally, the harm OCD is so much more mentally draining. So I would say that definitely it's better. And also contamination OCD is much better. I'm not cleaning the house for, like, hours and hours and hours every other day. Um, so it's definitely gone much better, which is also a relief.

A (18:28)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, yeah. Interesting. And with your. You say your boyfriend. You do?

B (18:37)

Yes.

A (18:39)

What's he been like with ocd? Or does he understand it or how does he get involved in therapy if he does, or.

B (18:46)

Yeah, he's been really great at it. So, you know, we're. We're pretty busy most of the time. He just passed the bar and became an attorney, so, yeah, he's been. He's been very busy. Thank you. And he's been. He's been so supportive. Even though he's gone through a lot of stress in his own life, he is really understanding about ocd. He's read a lot of things about it, and he really listens to me, especially when I'm going through. When my stress kind of peaks, my OCD also kind of peaks. I kind of had that pattern in my life. And so he's really helpful in being, like, just a listener. Honestly, that's kind of the best thing to have someone listen to you, especially when you're stressed out and you're having all these thoughts. And he's also really good at being like, hey, maybe you don't have to, you know, clean that right away. Maybe you can sit down for a minute and rest. And he'll sit. We'll sit and talk together for a few minutes instead. He's just really. He's really invested in my mental health, number one, which is amazing. He's a very supportive partner, but he's also just very interested and kind of like learning about it in general. And I. I agree. It's a very fascinating topic. So he's honestly my. My rock. He's. He's been very great.

A (20:13)

Yeah. Yeah. That's brilliant to hear. And does he. Is he good at. So would you ever ask him for reassurance or anything?

B (20:21)

All the time. Yeah. And oc, OCD in general. And I You know, my therapist and I spoke about this pretty early on, actually, when we were discussing ocd. Reassurance seeking is just a way to kind of, you know, reinforce that OCD pattern. And I've also spoken to my boyfriend about it, and he knows about what reassurance looks like, and he tries very hard to, you know, not kind of fall into that, because I've. I've been like, hey, if you reassure me, it's not helping me. It's actually. It's hindering the progress. But I've. I've kind of done that. You know, back when I was My parents, I was always reassurance seeking, um, and being like, hey, do you think this is, like, okay, is this clean? Or, like, should I clean up some more? Like, just a lot of. A lot of that. Of course, everyone still falls into that trap. Like, I do it and, you know, how can I expect people who aren't also living with OCD to be like, oh, yes, I know exactly what I should do in this situation. I should not reassure this person. But I have definitely asked him for reassurance so many times, more than I can count, honestly. And he's usually pretty good at it, honestly. Maybe that's the attorney part of him being super stubborn. But, yeah, he's. He's very good at kind of, like, steering away from that. But it's so hard even for. Even for me.

A (21:54)

So, absolutely. It's hard to spot at times. And is there any response he. Well, so when he. He doesn't give reassurance, is there any way he responds that you find particularly help? Because this is many ways to go. I'm not, you know, I'm not answering that. Well, that's ocd. Or there's like, you know, I don't need to answer that or that. Is there anything he says that is acceptable to you in those moments?

B (22:21)

That's a good question. I would say sometimes. Sometimes he just kind of says. He goes, hey, everything is okay. Like, he's like, sometimes when I kind of get into, like, spirals, he's a very calm person in general, which is good, because I'm not. So whenever I'm kind of, like, spiraling like that, or if I'm reassurance seeking, he's like, hey, he's very grounding. Like, hey, let's just, like, sit down for a minute and let you. And I just sit here. I find grounding techniques very important, especially for my anxiety, but also for ocd. I guess there isn't really anything specific that he says it's more about, like, his presence and his body language of being like, hey, I'm right here. You're right here. Nothing bad is going to happen if, for instance, you don't wash a fork. He's very just, like, quiet, and he listens. And I think that's what I like. Instead of someone who's, like, trying to rationalize me through it, if that makes sense. Yeah, he's just very. Just present and just calm, and that's what I need.

A (23:37)

Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's really important. And you said grounding techniques.

B (23:42)

What.

A (23:43)

Are there any in particular you find useful that you lean on?

B (23:47)

I have, like, two or three that I love that I use every day since high school. The first one is called box braiding. So you take a. Yeah, the breath in for four seconds, hold for four seconds, release for four seconds. I really like that technique, especially when I feel like I'm going to panic. Regulating breathing is something that's really grounding for me. The other one that I use for more for OCD and for anxious thoughts is naming, like, five things I can see, four things I can hear. It's based on the five senses. I find that so helpful, especially when my OCD kind of tends to peak at night, is what I've noticed when I'm going to sleep is when I have the most urges to engage in compulsions. And so doing that kind of takes my mind out of that race track and into the reality of, actually, I'm just here lying in bed with my boyfriend, I'm going to sleep, and my cat is meowing really loud in the other room. So those are the. Those are the two that I. I really love. I know there's a ton of others, but those are. Those are my top two.

A (25:01)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's useful. Thank you. And is the cat. Cat meowing loudly because you've locked them in the room?

B (25:11)

She's meowing loudly because I've dared to go to bed and I've stopped her, and that is unacceptable. Yeah. She also loves when my boyfriend's awake and he falls asleep instantly.

A (25:21)

So. Nice. How is your cat?

B (25:26)

These two? She. Yeah, we actually rescued her in August, you know, and she, unfortunately, she didn't have a very good, like, upbringing. She was in the shelter. She was really shy. But honestly, she's the most lovely, adorable cat who's super loving, though. So she's. She's. She's amazing. Her name is Minerva, after Minerva McGonagall, of course. So, yeah, she's been a great presence.

A (25:57)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So on that then how has. Because I know sometimes pets can be a trigger for people with ocd, but obviously they can also be a great aid for some people. So how do you think having Minerva has helped with you if, if she has?

B (26:12)

Yeah. So I would say Minerva is really helpful for me in a lot of ways because I find she's. Firstly, cats are so emotionally intelligent. I feel like they don't get enough credit for how in tune they are with people. I feel like, what, I'm anxious. She knows. I don't know how she knows, but she knows. And she kind of like senses when something is off. And so she comes in, she sits on the couch with me and I just pet her. And listening to a cat purr is like one of the best things. Cat purrs are really amazing. She's also really playful, which I love, especially when I'm feeling anxious. I'm like, oh my God, this cute, adorable little fluffball just wants to play with, play laser with me. And she's been really great with, with just like regulating that and like the action of just petting animals and being with animals. And you know, I say the same about dogs. I grew up with dogs. Some of them just kind of know when something is off. Like I don't know if they feel a shift in, in the atmosphere, like in of the room or whatever. But she just kind of like, she just kind of knows. And she, she is really loving like I mentioned, and she's just a little sweetie pie, honestly, besides them meowing at like 3am but yeah, I think she helps me honestly so much. And also the act of taking care of something also I think is really important. I think it's, it's something that kind of keeps my mind occupied as well. Like I'm responsible for this little being which can kind of be a double edged sword because you know, that can also trigger harm ocd. Like, oh my God, what if, what if I forgot to feed the cat? Or what about this? And I accidentally hurt the cat? Luckily that hasn't happened for me. But taking care of some of like in general I find is very healing for OCD because it's very like, okay, I can't focus on any of these compulsions. I just need to focus on keeping this, this little fluff ball like alive and like well entertained.

A (28:39)

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's a really good description of how, how pets can be helpful. So I'm trying. Yeah. Were there any roadblocks in your recovery? And if so, how did you Overcome them.

B (28:55)

I would say the roadblocks were mostly external. My family has gone through a lot of mental health issues over the years, and so sometimes, you know, that's involved, like, me focusing more on helping them out rather than being actively focused on my therapy. That's been really tough. And I've also had a lot of friends that have been going, you know, for a really hard time. I've had friends who've attempted suicide and a lot of other things. A lot of people that I know are impacted by mental health in one way or another. So whenever that happens, I kind of have a tendency to just drop what I'm doing in therapy at that time. And honestly, stress from work. I work in the security field. I work as a cyber security engineer. My job is quite stressful, and my job before that was also quite stressful when I. Even when I wasn't working in cybersecurity. And so sometimes I kind of would just let the stress override me, at which point I won't engage in exposure therapy at all. Sometimes I'll just be like, I cannot. Like, why should I do this when I'm so stressed about everything else? Like, why should I even engage in this? This feels like a waste of my time when I could be, like, working and reducing the stress or engaging in other behaviors to reduce stress. So those are kind of the two big external factors. I will say that I was very hesitant to even do exposure therapy. So, like, internally, my thought process was like, well, my OCD isn't harming anyone. Like, it's not harming other people. And also, like, maybe I just like cleaning a lot. I was kind of in denial when I first got my diagnosis. I was like, well, why do we have to label that ocd? Like, this is just behavior that I engage in. It's not dangerous to anyone. It's actually productive because I'm cleaning. And so I was like, I don't need to do any of this therapy. Like, why do I have to clinicalize or psychologize, like, diagnose things that I consider normal behavior? Because this was normal to me. So I had a lot of internal issues when I first started talking about OCD with my therapist, because I resented the fact that my behavior could be described as, like, not normal or, you know, pathologized, when to me, that was perfectly normal and I was fine, like a totally active member of society, besides these few things that I did on my own time in my own house. So that was a huge one for me.

A (31:52)

Yeah, absolutely. And the kind of Flip side of that question, were there any kind of like, light bulb moments for you in your recovery, things where you just clicked?

B (32:06)

That's a really good question. I feel like I've had a few of those in, in my time kind of going to therapy for ocd. I think one of those was when my therapist said, maybe you're resistant to OCD treatment and OCD diagnoses because you view OCD as being part of your identity. And I was like, oh, my God. Firstly, how dare you? And secondly, what a good point. I think, honestly, to some extent, I still do this because I can't really separate myself from ocd. Having OCD is a part of my identity to me, and it's not just something I have. Like, I'm just. It's so built into my behavior and so defining of things that I think I care about that I'm like, well, yeah, of course it's part of my identity. And that is part of why I was so resistant was like, why would I want to change part of my identity? And that kind of, you know, I mean, I didn't like that statement at first, but my therapist and I kind of spoke more about it and she was like, well, you're not just ocd, though. What are the other parts of your identity that are not dependent on diagnoses that you received? And I had a really hard time with that because I just identified myself as like an anxious person or a depressed person or a person who perhaps engages in OCD tendencies. And so untangling that and figuring out, okay, well, who am I actually as a person without all these extra labels or extra diagnoses? And that was something that was really difficult for me and honestly is really still very difficult for me to untangle because I just view all of these things as me. So that was definitely a big light bulb moment for me of like, okay, I actually have to engage in this work to untangle my identity from whatever other mental health struggles are kind of going on or that I'm engaging in. So that was a huge one for me.

A (34:19)

Yeah, absolutely. That's. That's a really interesting perspective. Um. Hmm. Do you feel you've. You've. You've made progress in that area?

B (34:32)

Yeah, that's. That's a good question. I kind of. Sometimes I feel like I have, and sometimes I feel like I haven't. I don't view OCD as part of my identity, but less so, in a way of. This is all of my identity. I know now that is not all my identity. And it's also not a really big part of my identity either. However, I'm still very much of the opinion that OCD is part of who I am rather than just something I have. And so I would say I have made a lot of progress in that. It's not all of who I am, but I still really struggle with taking that out completely. Especially when, you know, you realize as a child you probably have these tendencies. And I'm like, I've been doing this my whole life, so how could it not be part of me? So, yeah, I would say 50. 50. I mean, I've made some. I've made a lot of progress, but it's definitely not completely gone for me.

A (35:44)

Yeah, fair enough. Yeah, it sounds like you made progress there, which is good words of hope. What would you tell anyone listening?

B (35:53)

That's a good question. So I actually volunteer with the national alliance for Mental Illness, where I talk about my experience with ocd, which is an amazing organization. Just, I can't say enough good things about nami and something I present to a lot of different audiences. I present to, like, you know, police stations, inpatient mental health units, quite a wide range. And I think the best advice that I can offer to people is that a, you're not alone. Having OCD feels really isolating. And it feels like no one could possibly understand these, like, weird amalgamation of thoughts that you're having. But I promise you that people do that. People understand words. Other words of hope that I would kind of, you know, generally give to people is that, firstly, it can get better. It feels really debilitating right now, but it can become manageable. And I know manageable doesn't sound like, oh, my God, a cure, but it's better than suffering every single day with all of these. These thoughts. And I think the biggest thing for me and for others as well, that I hope they can. They can think about, is you are not your thought. Something that OCD does to people is they can get really horrible, taboo thoughts or really horrible thought cycles about really awful things or things that could happen. And you're not a bad person for having thought that you cannot control. You are not some evil villain because your brain decided that today we're going to have the most awful dreams and thoughts and visions about things that we would never do or even think about as a person. And you're not a bad person for having thoughts like that is not your fault. You are a good person who has a brain that is working against you and chemistry that is working against you. So that I think those would be my big three.

A (38:11)

Yeah, yeah, Good words. Thank you. And let's say you pick up the phone and call the 14 year old you. So that one that was moving across the Atlantic, what would you tell her?

B (38:26)

Oh, God, it would have to be a pretty long conversation. I have a lot to tell her. I would say, firstly, I would tell her that. It's actually okay and that no one's really paying that much attention to you because I was very socially anxious and I was like, oh my God, everyone's staring at me all the time and they're wondering what I'm doing. Actually, no one. People are actually busier than you think. They have their own lives to think about. They're probably thinking the same thing. They're like, oh my God, everyone's looking at me. I would tell her that, you know, life still goes on and not everything is tasky. Things are much less of a big deal than you, than you think they are. And the world is not ending over minor, minor inconveniences. And people are actually really nice. And if you don't put yourself out there, you won't meet some really awesome folks. There are going to be mean people, of course there's going to always going to be people that aren't great for you or on your cup of tea. And that's okay. I think it's kind of what I would say to her and also just to kind of keep going. Like, I'd be like, hey, there's a lot of stuff's gonna happen. A lot of stuff's gonna happen over the next few years. Push through it and keep going. And I promise you get to a place where you're. Where you're so happy and living in a wonderful apartment with your amazing boyfriend and your very sassy loud cat. So, yeah, I was. I think that's what I would say.

A (40:07)

Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I like that. And you got a billboard where you live. What you want written on that billboard?

B (40:15)

Oh, that's a good one. What would I want written on a billboard? I would say something probably about show yourself some grace and empathy. I think that's some of the best advice I've been given by one of my best friends. And I think it's just really struck a chord with me ever since they told me that shout out to Jay if you listen to this. But yeah, I think it would be something like, give yourself some grace and some empathy and some forgiveness. Something like that, I think would be great.

A (40:59)

Yeah, I like that. That's a nice billboard. And then lastly, anything else you wish you could have said or shared today?

B (41:06)

I think so. Thank you so much for having me. And I love this podcast. It's actually recommended it to a few. A couple of my acquaintances the other day who were asking for some resources and I was like, listen, if you want to feel less alone, go listen to the OCD stories. It makes me feel like someone's actually listening. So thank you for having me. I really appreciate what you're doing here. It's honestly so important.

A (41:32)

Thank you. No, that means a lot. Thank you for listening. Thank you for listening to this week's podcast and thank you to our Patreons who helped make this episode possible. And if you would like to find out more about Patreon and the rewards and benefits, then there will be a link in the episode description. If you enjoy the OCD Stories podcast and would like to support us, please subscribe and rate the show wherever you listen to the podcast. And thank you to NOCD for supporting our work. If you want to find out more about nocd, you can click the link in the episode description and quick disclaimer. Guys, this podcast is not therapy. It is not a replacement for therapy. Please seek treatment from a trained professional and until we speak. Take care.

B (42:20)

Sam.