Ep.5: In Blood, Truth (Showrunner/EP/Writer Alison Schapker & EP/Writer Jordan Goldberg; Actors Tabu and Josh Heuston; and Composer Volker Bertelmann)

Summary

Dune: Prophecy The Official Podcast – Episode 5 Summary: "In Blood, Truth"

Welcome to a comprehensive summary of Episode 5, titled "In Blood, Truth," from Dune: Prophecy The Official Podcast. Hosted by Greta Johnson and Amidal Yuckber, this episode delves deep into the latest developments of the HBO Original series, featuring exclusive interviews with the show's key creative minds and actors. Below, we explore the episode's main discussions, insights, and notable moments.

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1. Episode Recap: "In Blood, Truth"

The hosts begin with a detailed breakdown of Episode 5, highlighting pivotal plot advancements and character arcs.

• Desmond's Rise and New Mission

  • Following his attack on the High Council, Desmond Hart receives a promotion from the Emperor, now bearing the title Bashar. His new role involves commanding an elite regiment tasked with eliminating traitors, which surprisingly includes Kieran Atreides as a member of the Rebellion. (Greta Johnson, 01:12)

• Introduction of Sister Francesca

  • The episode introduces Sister Francesca, portrayed by Tabu, who is revealed to be Constantine's mother and Javico's former lover. Her arrival complicates the political landscape as Valya urges her to restore the Imperial family's standing with the sisterhood. (Amidal Yuckber, 01:39)

• Alliances and Betrayals

  • Francesca's presence strengthens the alliance between Natalia and Desmond, culminating in a passionate kiss. Meanwhile, on Wallach 9, Tula recruits Jen to assist with the newly awakened L, while Lila Ezraquela discovers an airborne genetic virus that thrives on fear. (Amidal Yuckber, 02:33)

• Desmond's Ancestry Unveiled

  • A significant reveal occurs when Tula uses DNA obtained from Valya to track Desmond's lineage, discovering his mixed Harkonnen and Atreides blood. This revelation sets the stage for future conflicts and character developments. (Amidal Yuckber, 02:17)

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2. Insights from Showrunners: Allison Schapker & Jordan Goldberg

The podcast features in-depth discussions with Allison Schapker (Showrunner, Executive Producer, Writer) and Jordan Goldberg (Executive Producer, Writer), offering a behind-the-scenes look at the storytelling decisions and character dynamics.

• Sister Francesca's Introduction

  • Allison Schapker explains the unconventional choice to introduce Francesca in the penultimate episode, emphasizing her role in rounding out Constantine's character and showcasing the sacrifices made by the sisterhood. (Allison Schapker, 05:27)

  "Francesca's introduction was meant to give depth to Constantine's character, showing the personal costs of the sisterhood's plans."

• Character Dynamics and Emotional Complexity

  • The showrunners discuss the intricate relationships within the Imperium, particularly focusing on the tension between Valya and Francesca, and how these relationships influence the broader narrative.

• Themes of Power and Allegiance

  • The conversation delves into the ongoing conflict between personal desires and the overarching goals of the sisterhood, highlighting characters like Mikaela and Velya who struggle with maintaining their power versus genuinely helping others. (Greta Johnson, 03:16)

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3. Actor Perspectives: Josh Heuston & Tabu

Josh Heuston and Tabu share their experiences portraying Constantine and Sister Francesca, respectively, providing personal insights into their characters' journeys.

• Tabu as Sister Francesca

  • Tabu discusses the depth and complexity of Francesca, portraying her as a "grenade" with emotional shrapnel that impacts all around her. She emphasizes Francesca's internal conflicts and her mission's cost on personal relationships. (Tabu, 07:14)

  "Francesca is an emotional time bomb, and her interactions with Valya are layered with manipulation and genuine concern for her son's place in the Imperium."

• Josh Heuston as Constantine

  • Heuston reflects on Constantine's evolution from a seemingly carefree character to someone grappling with deep-seated trauma and a yearning for maternal connection. He highlights the transformative impact of Francesca's return on Constantine's path towards leadership. (Josh Heuston, 12:06)

  "Constantine's promotion and newfound purpose are direct results of Francesca's influence, steering him away from his destructive habits towards strategic growth."

• Mother-Son Dynamic

  • A standout scene featuring Constantine and Francesca is discussed, showcasing their strained yet profound relationship. The emotional intensity of their interactions underscores the personal sacrifices characters make for the greater good. (Allison Schapker & Thaboo, 32:22)

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4. Composer's Corner: Volker Bertelman

Volker Bertelman, the composer for Dune: Prophecy, provides an exclusive look into the musical landscape of the series.

• Scoring the Series

  • Bertelman explains his approach to composing the series' score, blending traditional instruments with experimental sounds to reflect the show's futuristic yet human-centric narrative. He highlights the use of prepared pianos and unique instruments like the racket to create an immersive auditory experience. (Volker Bertelman, 44:09)

• Main Theme Development

  • The creation of the main theme is discussed, emphasizing its role in evoking tension and mystery. Bertelman describes the collaboration with vocalists to incorporate choir elements that signal urgency and foreshadow events within the narrative. (Volker Bertelman, 49:37)

  "The main theme uses a repetitive tribal voice layered with chord changes to evoke a sense of alarm and connection among the sisterhood."

• Cultural Influences and Instrumentation

  • The composer touches on the integration of cultural elements, such as the baliset, a fictional instrument symbolic of the human soul, enhancing the series' depth and authenticity. (Volker Bertelman, 53:09)

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5. Key Themes and Discussions

Throughout the episode, several overarching themes are explored:

• Power and Manipulation

  • The promotion of Desmond and his subsequent actions illustrate the manipulative nature of power within the Imperium. The dual bloodline of Harkonnen and Atreides adds layers of complexity to his character and potential future conflicts.

• Family and Sacrifice

  • The strained relationship between Constantine and his mother Francesca highlights the personal sacrifices made for political agendas. The emotional weight of Francesca's decisions impacts not only Constantine but also the broader narrative arc.

• Fear as a Weapon

  • The revelation of an airborne genetic virus that feeds on fear introduces a literal manifestation of the series' themes. This element serves as a metaphor for the pervasive influence of fear in maintaining control and authority.

• Cultural and Philosophical Elements

  • The introduction of unique instruments and musical themes underscores the blend of cultural depth and philosophical inquiry, staying true to the rich lore of the Dune universe.

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6. Notable Quotes

The episode is peppered with insightful quotes that capture the essence of the discussions:

• Allison Schapker on Francesca’s Purpose:

  "Francesca's introduction was meant to give depth to Constantine's character, showing the personal costs of the sisterhood's plans." (05:27)

• Tabu on Emotional Complexity:

  "Francesca is an emotional time bomb, and her interactions with Valya are layered with manipulation and genuine concern for her son's place in the Imperium." (07:14)

• Volker Bertelman on the Main Theme:

  "The main theme uses a repetitive tribal voice layered with chord changes to evoke a sense of alarm and connection among the sisterhood." (49:37)

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7. Conclusion and What's Next

As the episode wraps up, hosts Greta and Amidal express excitement for the upcoming season finale, promising more in-depth discussions and reveals. They encourage listeners to watch the latest episodes and stay tuned for next week's final breakdown of "Dune: Prophecy."

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Notable Timestamped Clips:

• Recap Highlights: 01:12 to 02:33
• Showrunner Insights: 05:27 to 09:53
• Actor Discussions: 23:09 to 42:24
• Composer Interview: 42:31 to 58:07

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For fans eager to dive deeper into the intricate world of Dune: Prophecy, Episode 5 of the official podcast offers a treasure trove of information, behind-the-scenes insights, and heartfelt discussions that enrich the viewing experience. Whether you're following the series closely or just getting started, this summary encapsulates the essence of "In Blood, Truth," ensuring you stay informed and engaged with every twist and turn in the saga.

Transcript

[Greta Johnson]

Whose eyes watch from the darkness.

[Amidal Yuckber]

You are out of line, acolyte.

[Greta Johnson]

You want us to discern truth?

[Allison Schapker]

How is that possible when none of it exists here?

[Greta Johnson]

Welcome to the official Dune Prophecy Podcast. I'm Greta Johnson.

[Amidal Yuckber]

And I'm Amidal Yuckber. Today we're talking all about the fifth episode of Dune Prophecy.

[Greta Johnson]

Yes. And to break it down with us, we are joined once again by showrunner, writer and executive producer Allison Schapker and executive producer and writer Jordan Goldberg.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Then we talk with the mother son pair that are shaking things up in the Imperial Palace. Josh Huston, who plays Constantine, and Thaboo, who plays Sister Francesca.

[Greta Johnson]

And finally, we'll get a glimpse into the pulse pounding music of Dune Prophecy with composer Volker Bertelman.

[Amidal Yuckber]

All right, spoilers for the first five episodes coming fast and furious. So go watch those, then come back to us.

[Allison Schapker]

Let us rid the Imperium of these witches forever.

[Greta Johnson]

Okay, let's do a quick recap of this fifth episode, which is titled In Blood Truth. Very interesting. So, in the wake of Desmond's attack on the High Council, the Emperor gives him a promotion. His title is now Bashar, and he commands a new elite regiment and is tasked with rooting out traitors. And much to the surprise of Princess Inan, this includes arresting Kieran Atreides as a member of the Rebellion.

[Amidal Yuckber]

But Valya throws a wrench in Desmond's plans by calling on Sister Francesca to bring the Imperial family back into the sisterhood's good graces. And there's a bit of a twist. Sister Francesca is Constantine's mom and Javico's former lover.

[Greta Johnson]

Yes. Francesca's introduction also solidifies the budding alliance between Natalia and Desmond, and they share a passionate kiss. Meanwhile, back on Wallach nine, Tula recruits Jen to help with the newly awoken L. And Lila Ezraquela uncovers the truth of the sisters nightmares. It is an airborne genetic virus that feeds on their fear.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Pretty big reveal.

[Greta Johnson]

Uh huh.

[Amidal Yuckber]

And at the end of the episode, Tula uses some DNA Valya got of Desmond to track his blood through the Anirul genetic index. And it turns out he has both Harkonnen and Atreides blood. Oh, no.

[Greta Johnson]

Oh, my God. Okay, so what did you think of this episode?

[Amidal Yuckber]

Well, I will say something about this series, which is making me both upset and kind of a growing moment for me, which is that I think I might like horror. And I have said to myself that I don't like horror. There is a jump scare this episode. Sister Lila is literally just losing it in that room with her ancestors coursing through her. You know, they open the thing and she literally just, like, screams at the thing and, wow, what a performance.

[Greta Johnson]

Oh, my God.

[Amidal Yuckber]

And scaring me. And for good effect. And I'm like, maybe I actually like horror. A good scare for a good reason, I'm into. So.

[Greta Johnson]

Yeah, well, I mean, I think it makes sense within the world of this story, too, because so much of what we're talking about is fear. Right.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Totally. Good point. Yeah. I have to face my fear. Horror movies are my mind killer, for sure.

[Greta Johnson]

I think something that I found myself thinking about a lot with this episode is the idea of the conflict between the desires and needs of the sisterhood and some of these individuals who are in the sisterhood. Right. I mean, we see it with Francesca and her very complicated role in the Imperium at this moment in time. We see it with Mikaela. She gets very frustrated with what she is asked to do in terms of the rebellion. And we see it with Velya herself, I think, when it comes to all of these plots that she has going and the question of how much is this really still about maintaining her own power versus actually helping everyone, I think is also a really interesting question.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Right.

[Greta Johnson]

Another thing I'm super curious about is this airborne virus. We've learned more about it in this episode. It feeds on fear, but we still don't really know how Desmond is involved.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Yeah. I mean, I think there's been a lot of speculation. What's going on with Desmond? What is he doing? Doesn't seem like a very highly scientific guy. Desmond, I'm not gonna lie, doesn't seem like somebody who would be engineering a virus. So I'm really curious how if that's true and if he was a part of that and how it happened.

[Greta Johnson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Also, he kissed the Empress, which I really didn't think he. You know, it didn't really seem like somebody who would have that kind of desire. So that was kind of interesting to me.

[Greta Johnson]

Once. Once the Emperor kissed Francesca, I was like, everybody's gonna make out with everybody.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Amidal Yuckber]

You can't have an Imperial court without everyone sleeping with each other. Come on. That's true. You're right.

[Greta Johnson]

What was I thinking?

[Amidal Yuckber]

What was I thinking?

[Greta Johnson]

And now it's time for us to go beyond the veil and unpack this episode with some very special guests. We have showrunner, writer, and executive producer Allison Sch, and executive producer and writer Jordan Goldberg. Let's get into it. Allison. Jordan, welcome back to the podcast.

[Josh Huston]

Thank you.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Thanks.

[Greta Johnson]

We learn about a lot of surprising lineage in this episode, including that Constantine's mother is a sister. We finally meet Sister Francesca. Why? At this point in the show, I mean, we are in episode five out of six.

[Jordan Goldberg]

You know, that is an unconventional choice. We were totally aware of that. But Constantine's mom has been absent for good. And that was her job, was to, you know, come as a young person, hook up with young prince in line to the throne Havoco, and sort of keep him occupied in a way that would. That she could step aside at exactly the right time when Natalia was going to come in as the sort of chosen empress to be. And she did it. And she's been a sort of absentee mom. And it came at a cost to her. And it felt like to bring her into the penultimate would, you know, eventize. It would round out Constantine's character, would make you understand really, the cost of the plan for her. And I think this is our chance to check in with Francesca and see what the time has done to her over the years in terms of her feelings. And we'll continue to explore that in six as well. So that's why we did it. And we were. We understood it was a bit unconventional in terms of structure when you're dealing with such a short season to introduce a new character. And I think that's also why we went out and we really did. We love Taboo and wanted somebody who could come in and kind of own the frame and, you know, be interesting enough that in hour five, you would be intrigued enough to accept a new character into the mix. And. And we were just very excited about.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Working with her as a Thaboo fan and a Dune fan. When I saw that casting, I was literally sold from that casting. I was like, she is perfect to be a sisterhood.

[Josh Huston]

Well, I mean, just from my personal experience, I guess I didn't understand the gravity of who she was until meeting her in person. I mean, she is sort of like, you know, a very kind of glamorous, kind of, you know, star kind of quality. And then, you know, I'd be around her, and people who knew her just, like, couldn't speak around her. That's the kind of. The kind of energy and impact that she had. So it was quite cool. I think the really interesting thing that Taboo is doing is that the way she interacts with Valya and those scenes together, particularly in five, I think, are actually quite interesting. Cause it's like she's hip to what's going on and how Valya is sort of manipulating these scenes. But she's also. She wants something for it, too. It's like. And she wants to elevate her son. I think it's pretty fun to watch.

[Greta Johnson]

Yeah, totally. Should we listen to one of those scenes?

[Jordan Goldberg]

Sure.

[Allison Schapker]

We must act. I'm going to eliminate Desmond Hart. That's already in progress. What I need you to do when that happens is to guide Corino back to us and convince him to allow Inez to study on Moloch 9.

[Thaboo]

And Constantine, he was just a ruse.

[Greta Johnson]

Francesca showing up is also very interesting because it creates. It, like, adds dimensionality to a lot of other different character dynamics that we've already gotten to know over the course of this season. I think especially about the family. I mean, Javico, Natalia and Constantine, all of a sudden, we've learned so much more about all of them. Just because all of a sudden this lady's at court.

[Jordan Goldberg]

That's very true.

[Josh Huston]

You realize Francesca is like a grenade that's being rolled into this world. And it has emotional shrapnel that goes off and hits everyone. So literally, the first two shots of her are coming, like, rolling down a ramp and sliding across from one side to the frame to the other. And so she is an emotional time bomb. Now, the interesting thing about Francesca is she doesn't quite understand that mission until she discovers, you know, what happened to Kasha. And that Mother Superior is actually in town, which is a surprise to her. But in that scene you just played, I think it's starting to kind of, you know, she's starting to grasp that Valya is using her to create upheaval to her advantage.

[Amidal Yuckber]

So.

[Greta Johnson]

Yeah. Was it Valya who sent her there?

[Jordan Goldberg]

Yes, definitely was Valya who sent her there, but sort of under false pretenses, like by faking a message that her son needed her. So she would come in and people, you know, would let Francesca find her, you know, from. Which is what happens.

[Amidal Yuckber]

You know, let's talk about, I guess, each of their roles in this. I think I have a lot of sympathy for Francesca. Cause she has the role that is, like, kind of the most emotionally complex, which is she had to birth in behalf of the plan.

[Jordan Goldberg]

That's a. I mean, I think you're right. I mean, it does, like, everything in the sisterhood, it's doing multiple things for them. And for Francesca, she's doing something a little dicier called imprinting. Which I guess there's a sense that she. And this is another thing the Sisters Hood is able to do is to kind of biochemically manipulate people in their encounters with them that it becomes, let's just say, a very memorable impression is made on another human being.

[Greta Johnson]

Genetic seduction is what?

[Jordan Goldberg]

Yeah, yeah. So she's got the Emperor kind of enthralled, kind of on a cellular level.

[Greta Johnson]

Like, that's epically amazing. Okay, well, let's get into Desmond's storyline then, because a lot happens on that side of things, too. At the beginning of this episode, we are seeing that the Emperor has doubled down on his alliance with Desmond Hart. Let's take a listen.

[Allison Schapker]

As far back as humanity's time on Old Earth, those whose actions seek to.

[Josh Huston]

Destroy the social order have always warranted a swift response.

[Allison Schapker]

The rebel plot to attack the Landsraad was a grave threat to us all. If it were not for the actions of one good and loyal subject, today's.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Ceremony would have been a funeral.

[Allison Schapker]

Now, more than ever, we need to defend our values with ferocity and pride. That is why I have assembled a new elite regiment and I charge you, Yesmund Hart, as my new Bashar Jordan.

[Greta Johnson]

I would love to ask you. I mean, this is obviously a new look for Javiko. What? I mean, was it really just the Landsraad and watching the devastation that Desmond could do and then just being like, okay, fuck it, let's go all in on this?

[Josh Huston]

I think so. I think most rulers that turn tyrant probably don't do it just by themselves. There's someone behind them or inside of them or in the shadows that are pushing them forward. And part of that push is giving confidence, strength. What happened in Four was the ultimate demonstration of that. He now has a weapon at his side, and I think he feels like he can now sort of, you know, really kind of solidify his strength and make sure everyone knows who's really boss.

[Greta Johnson]

I hadn't thought of it as confidence, but you're right. That's exactly what it is, isn't it?

[Josh Huston]

Yeah, I mean, I think so. I mean, that's what he's been missing up until this moment. And ironically, I think the thing with Francesca is that I think she also gave him confidence. But, you know, maybe for, you know, it's an interesting dynamic about how each of these characters do this with him and which one will win over. There's the show of strength, and then there's sort of like the confidence in feeling good about yourself and love and all this other stuff. And what's more manipulative in this particular situation.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Yeah. And also, I think justification, too, you know, in the attack on his family or the idea that there was this, like, assassination Attempt, or, you know, they were gonna like set off a thinking machine in the Landsraad is a perfect justification for a crackdown. And I think everything Jordan's saying on the emotional side, and then you take the plot that he's able to now justify ramping up, you know, his new militarism.

[Josh Huston]

And what I love about this particular thing is we broke this story was the. Because before the gathering of the troops and the presentation of the troops, you know, we have a. We are subjected to a private moment with Desmond, and he's now converting himself from, you know, soldier on Arrakis to one of the highest ranking military officials in the Imperium. And I think that I don't. I don't see a lot of mustache twirling in the performance when he's out there being kind of lauded by the emperor. I actually see someone who's actually very kind of proud secretly. You know what I mean? That, like this, you know, finally someone has, you know, kind of really cared enough to make him an important person in that role. And that really is an interesting part of this story, because I don't think up until this moment he has really suffered defeat. And he suffers defeat in this episode almost catastrophically. Right. And that's really kicking the beehive.

[Amidal Yuckber]

So I'll ask one clarifying question, which is what is a Bashar? What does that mean?

[Jordan Goldberg]

Oh, I think he's like, you know, advisor. Like, to me it was like top advisor, like military advisor, like a Secretary of Defense or like, you know, somebody who's gonna weigh in on all Imperium related act or military, I guess, but an advisory role.

[Greta Johnson]

And boots on the ground too, though.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Yeah, like a consigliere for that stuff.

[Greta Johnson]

Well, let's talk about the Spice Club, because that was an incredible scene. Desmond gets a tip about the underground market and he heads right to Mikaela's front door and there's a raid. And it's absolutely wild. I would love to hear about building the tension in that sequence.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Those sequences are always really fun. I mean, you know, what was tricky about filming it is was it a two level set, Jordan? Or, you know, we had to kind of redress the picture to try and create it to feel much, much bigger. You know, we kind of redressed or kind of reshot levels of it, you know, differently. So there was a bit of a puzzle kind of figuring out how to create the space inside. But narratively you just want to feel like there's pressure coming from all sides kind of building. And it was really Fun. To finally bring him and, you know, Mikayla together in that space was really, I thought, kind of explosive.

[Josh Huston]

And, yeah, I think if Valia is good about, you know, knowing how. What the emotional pressure points are on people and how to kind of, you know, make people kind of open up or fall down, I think the Mikaela interaction shows you that Desmond is equally good at that. I think he zeroes in on the kind of, like, I don't understand. You're a Fremen. You're here in the imperial capital selling spice. And particularly because he's also. His part of his life has been on Arrakis fighting off Fremen sabotage. It's confusing, but his indictment of her, it really does open up this emotional wound that kind of blows up throughout the entire episode, you know, literally and figuratively in her scenes with Kieran and then ultimately with Valya Harkonnen. You know, what strikes me as odd.

[Allison Schapker]

Is the fact that you are here, a Fremen, profiting off the rape of.

[Thaboo]

Your own planet, communing with your oppressors.

[Allison Schapker]

I found a different way to survive.

[Josh Huston]

Or a different way to kill.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Well, all of us here, obviously, have talked about how we love Fremen, but, you know, this is, like, the most straightforward acknowledgement of a Fremen character and their motivations. And maybe some folks have not read the books or seen the movies. Could you just explain a little bit, like, why it's so, like, what's going through Desmond's mind about what he knows about Fremen and what she's doing here? Like, what is the Fremen relationship to the Empire, and why is it odd that she's selling spice there?

[Jordan Goldberg]

You know, as our understanding of it is that, you know, it's not Fremen. Aren't the most. Would you say they're not all over the Imperium? You know, like, they tend to very much stay on Arrakis. So to see a Fremen sister is a bit, like, not unique, but, like. But not typical, I guess you would say. And then, like Jordan said, she's in a sort of loose spice economy, you know, that involves smuggling spice and maybe attacking the harvesters. And is she in league with the rebels? And these are people Desmond has a beef with for a long time, so he's trying to figure out, really how she fits in this whole thing, because it's not obvious. And how do you square that, by the way? Which I think we haven't. In some ways, I feel like. Look, for Mikayla, I felt like this Was her episode to kind of start to set the table about, like, what Mikayla's issues are, and being Fremen is part of who she is and is going to affect how she is a sister. And now she's finding herself in a moment where not only are those connections being used, they're being put right in the crosshairs of Valya and Desmond. And where is her allegiance gonna lie? I think by the end of episode five, like, it's not a settled question, and I think she's troubled in ways that, you know, maybe are a accumulating. And I think that's one of the things we're showing across the show, a bit of, like, you can get caught up in an organization, and then you're acting on behalf of it, and you're driven, and you have a goal and you have a purpose, and you even have a noble purpose. But how do you square sort of what you're asked to do? And Mikayla, I think, is starting to have some of it back up on her in ways that she finds disconcerting.

[Greta Johnson]

Yeah, that was one of the bigger themes I noticed, especially in this episode, is that members of the sisterhood are, you know, to what. What. What sacrifices do have to be made for it to become sisterhood above all. And. And are these various characters willing to pay those prices? Is more in question than ever before, I think.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Exactly.

[Allison Schapker]

I won't betray my people the same way I did Horace and the others. The sisterhood is your people. I see you're molding this one in your image. Let's see how long you remain this naive acolyte.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Love the setup from Mikael in this episode. Really looking forward to seeing more from her. Also, love that she did not fall for the Atreides. That was, like, one thing I was holding my breath for. I was like, please don't fall for the Atreides. I was like, she is a consummate professional, so I really like that about her.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Oh, that's so awesome. You know, we talked about that, and we explicitly moved away from love triangle here. Like, it just didn't feel like what the story really was calling for. I agree with you.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Speaking of sisterhood, we gotta go to Wallach 9, where things are not going so good. And some really strange things are afoot with Lila awakening as Raquela. My God, amazing acting again. Chloe Lee is so good.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Incredible.

[Amidal Yuckber]

I did not really, truly expect Raquela to come back. How did you come up with this idea that, like, Raquela, was that always in the plan? That, you know, Lila would be this abomination.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Yes. I mean. I mean, I think we all were, like, very interested in abomination as a concept, you know, and as a sisterhood concept. And this idea that, you know, Tula is really playing with fire a little bit in what she's doing, and Lila is a massive wild card in the show now.

[Greta Johnson]

Yes. I also feel like we can't not talk about our ending here and Tula's discovery of Desmond's genetic background. Harkonnen and Atreides, obviously, we're gonna be learning more about, or at least I assume we're gonna be learning more about Desmond's heritage. But I would love to know, like, for Dune fans, it does really all kind of come back to Atreides and Harkonnens. Right. And I'm curious from your points of view, like, what makes these two families so unique and special, just even within the Dune universe?

[Jordan Goldberg]

Well, definitely Paul Atreides and the notion that the Atreides and the Harkonnen bloodlines would create, like, an incredibly powerful, charismatic, volatile sort of point of potential that could break good, that could break bad, that could be manipulated. That could. But something that would have a force is something that we. And I think what's so provocative is you have this 10,000 year feud between the two families, so you don't have a lot of bloodline crossing and like, that. These bloodlines have never crossed before. And I think we basically have a lot of story kind of emanating from this notion of the power and the rarity. What does that mean? That there was kind of Desmond Hart in our time period has many layers to it, but it starts here. It starts in season one. You saw it happen. We're gonna see the. We're gonna see the fallout.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Definitely got a lot of gears turning in my head, for sure. Well, thank you all for joining us.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Oh, thank you.

[Josh Huston]

Pleasure. Thank you.

[Amidal Yuckber]

And now we are joined by Josh Houston, who plays Constantine. Hi, Josh.

[Allison Schapker]

Hi. How you doing?

[Amidal Yuckber]

And Thaboo, who plays sister Francesca. Hi, Tabu.

[Thaboo]

Hi. Hi, Emma.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Thank you both for being here. Shall we start by doing what we've asked every single guest here? What was your relationship like with Dune and maybe even sci fi in general before you joined this show? Taboo would love to hear from you first.

[Thaboo]

I think Star Trek was my first and the strongest association or relationship that I had with sci fi. I grew up watching Star Trek. We got Star Trek on Sundays at 11am in the morning. I still remember when we were growing up and we had A black and white television in Hyderabad, and I would just stop everything to just watch Star Trek. So for me, that is the strongest impression of sci fi. And then not much, honestly, unless there is an element of philosophy and the human element that you can relate to.

[Greta Johnson]

Which is perfect for Dune.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Yeah, I was gonna say Dune is perfect, but you had not. You did not know about Dune.

[Thaboo]

Dune is perfect.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Dune is perfect.

[Greta Johnson]

What about you, Josh?

[Allison Schapker]

My grandfather introduced me to the Dune universe when I was a kid. I don't really remember any of it. And kind of fell back in love with the whole text and the lore and everything when the first film came out. And then I read the books after that. But in terms of sci fi, I loved everything sci fi and fantasy and, yeah, I guess Star wars and then even Starship Troopers. Like, you know that one with all the bugs and stuff when. Sure, yeah, I watched that. My dad made me watch that one. It's like I watched it like nine times with him. Yeah, but that's kind of my. He made me. Forced me to watch these bugs get destroyed.

[Amidal Yuckber]

That's a very common theme in this podcast, is that our parents made us into sci fi fans. So you're not alone. My mom was the one for me in Dune.

[Thaboo]

Yeah, I heard that on your podcast, the Alison podcast.

[Greta Johnson]

You mean on this.

[Jordan Goldberg]

My mother read off.

[Thaboo]

She forced me to watch Dune.

[Greta Johnson]

Right, yeah, Yeah.

[Thaboo]

I was like, wow, cool mom.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Yeah, she was a very cool mom. And she would have loved to hear this conversation.

[Thaboo]

You're lucky.

[Greta Johnson]

Oh, my gosh, that's so sweet. I love it.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Well, I want to know, Tabu, what drew you to this role? I mean, this is a big debut for the character. You know, you're coming in towards the end here, and we've seen you in the world as a younger character, but, you know, I want to know, like, what brought you, what attracted you to the role of Sr. Francesca?

[Thaboo]

It's a beautiful character. And I remember getting just one scene on my email, and I read that and I'm like, if this is that one scene that I have to do in this show, I'm good with this because that one scene gave me an idea of what the background was, how important she is, and what role she is playing in the story. Yeah. And as a person, I could really relate to her. And though I hadn't read the whole script, I didn't know what's happening in the first, like, the episodes before I come, I was like, I don't need to know, because I know. So as an actor and with so much experience, you understand, right, that the audience will be forced to imagine what has happened in her life before this. Yeah. And that's so beautiful, because when you're coming and making such a strong impact on the story and on the lives of these characters, and luckily, I had the time. I mean, everything fell into place. Sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, thank God. If it would have come, like, six months before, I would have been in a fix. So I guess I was destined to play Francesca, Constantine's mother.

[Amidal Yuckber]

I love that.

[Allison Schapker]

Killed it.

[Amidal Yuckber]

It was so much fun.

[Greta Johnson]

So, yes, I definitely want to talk about the fact that Francesca is Constantine's mother, because I think that is a huge reveal among many in this episode, I will say. But first, Josh, I would love to talk a little bit just about, like, the trajectory we've seen of Constantine so far, because I feel like, over these five episodes, I mean, I remember seeing him in episode one, and he's, like, strutting through the sisterhood, checking out all the ladies. Like, he kind of has, like, pretty serious, like, fuckboy vibes. Pardon my language.

[Allison Schapker]

Yeah.

[Greta Johnson]

And by episode five, we're getting a lot more depth from him, and we're seeing that he does want to do more and he does want more opportunities to help. I'd love to hear what. What it's been like for you to sort of go through that journey as the character.

[Allison Schapker]

Yeah. I guess for me, at the beginning of the series, he definitely did have extreme fuckboy energy, Right? Yeah. But I feel like a lot of that is, like. It's like a symptom of the fact that he doesn't feel like he has a sense of destiny, and there's not as much control to the heights that he can rise in terms of the imperium. And it's also the childhood trauma that gets explored in, like, episode two. And a lot of the things he does with women and drugs and alcohol, it's to kind of soothe that pain and to just give him an outlet to blow off some steam in this environment where even when he's at home, his dad kind of just, I don't know, treats him like shit as well. So it's kind of. Yeah, all of those things put together. But then I think taboo when she comes. Well, when Francesca comes back into his life, he definitely feels like that sense of purpose, and I think maybe that yearning he had for a relationship with his mother is also quite soothed in a way. So he doesn't need to direct all of his energy into those sort of, like, Negative things. He kind of has an outlet in a much more positive way. And then, yeah, he definitely starts to play the game of Dune in a much more strategic manner.

[Greta Johnson]

The game of Dune. I love that.

[Allison Schapker]

Yeah. Snakes and Ladders.

[Greta Johnson]

Yeah.

[Amidal Yuckber]

So would you both say that there's love between Francesca and Constantine?

[Thaboo]

I love him a lot. I think it's the difficult relationship that they have from his side, especially because she's been away. I think they have a very, very intense relationship. It's little estranged and it is all of that.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Right? Yeah.

[Allison Schapker]

I feel like Konstantin has so much love for her still, and I think that's part of the reason why he acts out so much, because if he didn't, then you just cruise through life and I guess be. I guess enjoy the riches that you do in the. In the Imperium. But, yeah, he. I think the second he comes back in, she comes back into his life. He definitely feels like he has a bit more purpose and direction. But I think he's just one of those, like, wounded little kids that just doesn't have their mum around or their dad around and they've. They're kind of just longing for that connection continuous. And he doesn't get that from the Emperor because he gives all that attention to Nez. So it's kind of always just been floating around, I think, until that moment.

[Thaboo]

I also feel that internally for Francesca, especially when I was there on set, in the whole atmosphere of the Imperium and Nez becoming the Empress and all. For Francesca, I think it's the greatest sacrifice not to have her son on the throne.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Oh, interesting.

[Thaboo]

But for her, it's a very, very, very big conflict. You don't see the conflict, but I think internally I played that conflict because it's not possible that a mother would not to see her own son on the throne and follow the sisterhood's purpose to make Nez the Empress. I'm sure she nurses this loss or grief or even her inability to. To see that happen. And that is why, even though she is, you know, on Mother Superior's behest, she's playing this whole thing with the Emperor, but she's also making sure that her son has a very solid and secure place in the Imperium.

[Allison Schapker]

Yeah, I think that she can see that Constantine kind of isn't as a waste of space as a lot of the Imperium thinks he is. He's actually, in my opinion, he's actually more intelligent than what he lets on. And he kind of just observes everything in, like, a more Like a periscope manner. But I feel like the second he's given a little bit of direction and is like, okay, I've just found the, like, the spy within the imperium. Like, you know what I mean? Within two seconds, he's like, oh, I can apply myself for once. So I think that sort of thing, he probably could have been a good leader. And I think at this sort of stage in the season, you're seeing that. Okay, there is. He's kind of progressing in that way since Francesca came back in.

[Greta Johnson]

Totally. Well, that reminds me of the scene. I think we should play it. It's a standout scene of you two together. We really see your mother's son dynamic. It's lovely. Let's listen to a clip of it.

[Allison Schapker]

All my life, I've had to learn about the great Corrinos, Roderick, Jules, and the butlers before them. But I don't know anything about your family. Your sisterhood does everything with a purpose. Right? Grand plan.

[Thaboo]

That's always our intention.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Yes.

[Allison Schapker]

What was your purpose in having me.

[Thaboo]

Constantine?

[Allison Schapker]

What was your purpose in having me? You left me to be raised by a father who can't stand me and never will. What's the purpose in that? Sorry I don't have a glass for you.

[Thaboo]

You have to see your father for the man he really is.

[Allison Schapker]

A man who can never be pleased.

[Thaboo]

A man who's driven by fear. You, on the other hand, and have never cared what anyone thinks of you.

[Greta Johnson]

So many feelings.

[Thaboo]

I know. Such a broken face.

[Greta Johnson]

He was so good.

[Thaboo]

He was so good. I literally had to stop myself from crying in this scene.

[Allison Schapker]

That was so much fun. So, yeah.

[Greta Johnson]

Josh, what do you think, Constantine? I mean, he's going through so much in this scene.

[Allison Schapker]

Yeah, I think it's just the. Like, everything's kind of been building up to this moment. Like, his relationship with Nez is tested. His relationship with Kieran is tested. His relationship with his father is tested. And then all of a sudden, his mom comes back in, and he's just like, oh, my God, what now? Is this person just going to pack up and abandon me as well? And then, yeah, in this moment, I think you just kind of see him let it all go. And, like, there's an aggressive scene, slight, like, before that, where he's beating up the training dummy, and you can kind of see that, like, rage come out. And then he goes back to the drink, and then his mom just gives him a little bit of hope, and it's like he just needed someone to, I think, have some Unconditional love for him and give him the push in the right direction, because he's kind of at those crossroads of whether he just lives up to what everyone thinks he's going to be and just becomes the playboy partier or actually tries to make something of himself.

[Greta Johnson]

Tabu, did you say that this was the first scene that you two filmed together?

[Thaboo]

Yes.

[Allison Schapker]

Yeah.

[Greta Johnson]

That's amazing. How did you prepare for it?

[Thaboo]

We did one day of rehearsal. Right, Josh?

[Allison Schapker]

Yeah, we had one. Yeah, one rehearsal day.

[Thaboo]

Yeah.

[Allison Schapker]

And then we just would chill outside of one of our trailers and just yap for hours. Yeah, it felt very natural the whole time. We didn't feel like we had to push for it or force it. And I think we still had, I think, a couple weeks before that, just, like, talking about stuff, remember? And then Taboo would bring food for me to eat, because Indian food. Indian food. Because I was complaining that I couldn't, like, my cooking sucks. And then she was just like, I'll sort it out.

[Greta Johnson]

It's such a motherly act, too.

[Allison Schapker]

I love that because of these Tupperware containers. And then I literally live on.

[Amidal Yuckber]

It's also a very Indian desi act.

[Allison Schapker]

Yeah.

[Thaboo]

So food is big. So I found out contacts from production people in India found out the food places, restaurant, and they used to, like, send food to set. It was great biryani I got for Josh and all that.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Oh, my gosh. Nice biryani on the tube set.

[Allison Schapker]

It's so good. Or, like, if I was filming a scene, she'd just be like, it's in your fridge. And I'd be like, I love you.

[Amidal Yuckber]

It's in your fridge.

[Greta Johnson]

Oh, my God.

[Volker Bertelman]

Thank you.

[Amidal Yuckber]

You are really doing our culture proud, Tabu, for sure. I mean, that's how you have to do it. You have to bring the food. I like that, too. You know, we got to give the biryani and the chai and all that. Oh, my God, how wonderful.

[Greta Johnson]

Well, I'd love to talk, too. I mean, it is clear that Constantine's relationship with his father are, we'll say, complicated at best. But what is Francesca think of him?

[Thaboo]

What Francesca thinks of Constantine, of Javico, of Havo? I think she understands his position in the situation he is in. She is definitely in love with him. Even though it was like, you know, an arrangement to. I mean, through the sisterhood. But. But I don't think any. Anybody in the sisterhood envisioned that there would be a strong emotional bond between Javiko and Sister Francesca. I think she does not want to express how Much she feels for the emperor because then that would make it more difficult for the emperor. She wants to keep that to herself because she also wants to keep the sisterhood's objective above her own emotions and above her feelings.

[Amidal Yuckber]

You know, she called him a man driven by fear, which, to me, that's a big criticism. I totally saw some of that love. But that's a really big insult in this world that it's a man driven by fear.

[Thaboo]

So it could be an insult. But also, I think she's coming from a lot of experience of life, of human beings. She has seen so much. She knows, knows that being on a throne with that kind of position and power also comes with a lot of fear. Anybody who is in that position of power and who is, you know, sitting at the top of the pedestal is bound to have fear of losing it. So I think. And I feel that that's what she means when she says that he's driven by fear because he's afraid of losing everything. He's afraid of being betrayed. He's afraid. You know, I don't think she. Know. I don't think she thinks that he has that much control because she knows that the truth says are actually controlling his decisions. But for that exact reason, she knows that there is a lot of fear.

[Amidal Yuckber]

She sees this clearly. Yeah.

[Thaboo]

Yes. Yeah. So I don't know if she says it as a criticism, but also she has to give her son enough reason for him to stop being so angry with the father. You know, she's trying to justify because she sees that he's so tormented by his relationship with his father. So she's just trying to make peace between the father and son like most mothers or parents do. You know, for the other parent, it's okay. It's. He's not so bad. It's just fear. He's just insecure, you know?

[Amidal Yuckber]

Totally. Totally.

[Thaboo]

I think it's coming from.

[Greta Johnson]

So, Josh, by the end of this episode, Constantine gets a promotion. And I wonder how much you think Francesca's advice in that scene inspires Constantine to turn in Kyrian Atreides, I think.

[Allison Schapker]

Well, even in her wording. Because Francesca, I think, is aware of the plot for, I guess, with the rebellion and everything. So the wording, I think, almost a little bit prescriptive in terms of, like, even the person that's most, like, closest to it to your sister could be the person that's not actually the one looking out for her. But I think Francesca's, I think, just simple push and the hint of actually, like, a positive Reinforcement from someone outside of Nez was kind of all it took for him to, I guess, start taking charge and making his own plays.

[Greta Johnson]

That's really interesting. It's helpful to be reminded of that because, you know, the other question, of course, is like, the extent to which Constantine is threatening his relationship with Ines by actually calling out Kieran the way he does, you know?

[Allison Schapker]

Yeah. So it's that double edged sword in this moment.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Yeah. Such a great moment for unveiling, you know, the full Constantine intelligence. And for the last question here, you know, there's like a real tragedy to your character's relationship. If all this. All the imperium wasn't here, you were free from all. What do you think each of your characters would wish they could tell the other? Josh, why don't you start? What would you tell Francesca?

[Allison Schapker]

Oh, God. I think Constantine would tell Francesca that he just loves her and that's kind of all it's been the whole time. He just wanted that relationship with his mother. And I think he does understand that that's just not practical and that's just not the duty of her and then the duty of him. It just doesn't work like that. And. And he's probably thinking maybe if he was born a woman, he might have had the opportunity to train at the Bene Gesserit with Francesca. But unfortunately there's not that.

[Jordan Goldberg]

So.

[Allison Schapker]

Yeah, I think he would just tell her that he loves her and he's probably sorry for causing so much damage all the time.

[Greta Johnson]

That's really sweet.

[Thaboo]

I think I would like to apologize to Constantine and say sorry to him for just abandoning him, you know, because there is no way that he is going to be able to understand or be okay with the fact that she just left. Like you said, what was the purpose? Some questions you have no answers for except an apology? No, I think she would like to apologize and she would like to make up for all the time that she lost and just.

[Greta Johnson]

And bring him Indian food.

[Thaboo]

Yeah.

[Greta Johnson]

On set.

[Allison Schapker]

Yeah, it's in the field.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Bring in the.

[Greta Johnson]

Feed him.

[Thaboo]

I was making up for all that.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Feed him.

[Thaboo]

Feed him.

[Jordan Goldberg]

Feed him.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Well, this was so great. Thank you both for joining us. We're excited to see where the story goes.

[Thaboo]

Thank you.

[Allison Schapker]

Thank you.

[Greta Johnson]

Thank you both so much. That was such a pleasure.

[Amidal Yuckber]

And now, Greta, we've got a conversation that I had with the composer of Dune Prophecy. He was amazing.

[Greta Johnson]

So cool. Let's go.

[Thaboo]

Listen.

[Amidal Yuckber]

We are so excited to be joined by the man behind the music, composer Volker Bertelman. Welcome to the Pod Volker.

[Volker Bertelman]

Oh, thank you, Ahmed.

[Amidal Yuckber]

So happy to have you. You know, we've been asking everybody what their relationship with Dune was like. Were you a Dune fan before this show?

[Volker Bertelman]

Yeah, absolutely. I was even a Dune fan of the films, you know, before the newest ones from Denis. I mean, I was always a sci fi fan anyways, so every sci fi movie that I could watch, I watched. And so I had the feeling once when I got asked to do the music for the series, there was hardly nothing in me saying, no, you were ready to go? I was ready to go, yeah.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Could you actually tell people a little bit about your work, like, as a musician? What kind of people who are not familiar with your work? You do a lot of different stuff. Could you just briefly explain how you make music and the different styles you do?

[Volker Bertelman]

Well, I mean, I would say most likely the music that I always wanted to do. I started in around 2002 with my first record under the artist named Hauschka. And that was the first time where I, in a way, did electronic music with a acoustic instrument with a prepared piano. So I taped a lot of trash into the piano to create drum kits and, you know, all sorts of experimental sounds inside of the piano.

[Amidal Yuckber]

What was the word that you used that you taped into? Did you say trash? Did you say trash? Did I hear trash?

[Volker Bertelman]

Yeah. Yes, yes. I'm using things from the. Let's say from the kitchen, Things that are like leftover light filters, all sorts of things that are like ping pong balls are maybe the less trash. I sometimes fill up the grand piano with 5,000 ping pong balls, and then they start to fly while I'm playing. Because while you're performing, the ping pong balls are jumping out of the piano, and at the same time, you create notes. So that is a very. It's a very interesting experiment, and I love this so much in.

[Amidal Yuckber]

I mean, prepared piano is a very restrained name for what the performance is like. I encourage people to watch videos of your performances because they're very interesting. But let's move into Dune. How would you characterize the genre of how you approached scoring this? Because there's a lot of elements to the show in addition to the sci fi elements. And how did that inform your approach to the score?

[Volker Bertelman]

Well, first of all, TV series are always different than cinema films because you have a lot of different things to handle. So, for example, for Dune, for all six episodes, I wrote six hours of music, which is in comparison to a movie. This is three movies.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Right.

[Volker Bertelman]

And maybe to go a little Bit backwards. I started already writing music for the series before it was getting shot because for a few scenes, they needed music on set. And one is actually. One is actually the Sisterhood choir where they do this kind of ritual together. And, you know, there is the water. That is like water fountain in the middle of them is starting to vibrate. So the music starts to create these kind of waves. And that's, for example, something that I had to deliver to them in separate tracks so that they can record, you know, and film synchronized to the. To the piece. And then there was also a kind of Atradis ritual at the campfire where they needed to have music with, you know, that it was a little bit tribal, what they described.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Right. So that was from the scene of the Atreides dancing around the fire in episode three. How did you go about writing that cue?

[Volker Bertelman]

I had to research what kind of instrument they could use and obviously, what. What could they play, you know, at that time? And, you know, as we know this time, we have no definition for 10,000 years in the future. Of course, what I did is I went to a guy that plays medieval woodwind instruments, and I looked at his catalog of instruments, and there was one instrument that really stood out that was called the racket. And it looks a little bit like a wooden vase.

[Amidal Yuckber]

I'm looking it up, and it looks like an absolute gizmo. That is a gizmo, the racket. Like, it's really quite funny looking. Is it in the scene?

[Volker Bertelman]

Yeah, it is.

[Amidal Yuckber]

It's physically there. Wow. I'll have to look at it again. I was paying attention to the drums because for me, that was like a. We were talked about in earlier episodes how the fact that that was Caladan and Atreides was a little bit of a reveal for the audience. Like, they didn't really tell you right away. We're in Atreides, and when you hear the tribal music, you're thinking, like, who is this? Like, who are these people? But then you think that tradies are hunters, like, you know, like bulls and, like, you know, taming an animal, a beast, is like, it's part of their mythology. So, like, it totally clicked for me, but it was like a really kind of unexpected twist, but it totally clicked.

[Volker Bertelman]

But the nice thing about it is about the series is that it's not, like, pushing too hard to be futuristic. There is parts where you just get, you know, you get actually a connection to the story. And I think that's, in a way, what happens when you read a book about it. Your brain. Brain, in a way, imagines sometimes things that are very close to our reality. And they have maybe a little bit of a sci fi approach, but they are not too far away from it. And Dune feels to me a little bit like having always this contrast.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Right. Well, I think probably the piece of music that people have heard the most of the show so far would be the main theme music. You know, it definitely has a tense feeling for me. You know, there's a discomfort that comes with Dune, and I think that's a really, you know, you achieve that there and it feels so Dune, like mysterious, epic, thoughtful. How did you come up with this theme? How early was the theme in your process?

[Volker Bertelman]

Well, the main theme was pretty late in the process, yeah, because we were always talking about it. But then the main title was not finished. Slowly I received pictures of the concept, and then I wrote two or three drafts where they decided one draft might be a good approach. And it was mainly based on the choir, actually on the Sisterhood choir.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Let's listen to that.

[Volker Bertelman]

Yeah.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Was there a shout in the very, very beginning that I layered underneath, like a human voice at the.

[Volker Bertelman]

Yeah.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Oh, wow. I didn't notice it.

[Josh Huston]

Absolutely.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Just this time, listen. That's really cool. It's hidden underneath there.

[Volker Bertelman]

Yeah, it's actually the, you know, that's always the. In a way, the tribal voice that I used in, you know, that is in a way, repetitive. But when I started first with that one, like two notes, in a way, I was like, not so sure if that expressing something that is recognizable. And also if I can work with those two notes just to make a theme out of it. But then I found out when I do the chord changes underneath that this is very nice, that it's always a kind of signal. Somebody's alarmed. It sounds like somebody's shouting out, you know, saying, hey, wait. Or look there, look, look over there. You know, something like maybe a signal that sisters are shouting from one mountain to the other to alarm people on the other side. So that could be a kind of signal like that.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Who are the voices, by the way?

[Volker Bertelman]

The singer is a lady from England. Her name is Josephine Stevenson, and she does very high, you know, very pristine voices. But I did with her a lot of, like, very raw, nearly at the edge of gurgling sounds sometimes. I asked her to sound like a Romanian women's choir. You know, a lot of these Romanian women choir, they shout in a way. They're not like. They sing in their throat much more so they sound like really intense, beautiful, beautiful choirs. But they have a different way of singing. And so what I wanted is I wanted something from an ancient tribe in a way to, you know, where they actually, maybe they transported that voice from one generation to the other.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Right. You know, you are known for using unique instruments. You know, we have the racket here. I wonder if the baliset is something that we can talk about. That's an important element of Dune that I saw, at least on a set.

[Volker Bertelman]

Yeah.

[Amidal Yuckber]

So just for people who don't know, the baliset is a fictional instrument from the Dune universe. It was written about. It also has a lot of symbolic meaning. It represents, you know, the human soul many times, you know, just like how people are expressing the fullness of their story.

[Volker Bertelman]

Well, the ballet set is, in a way, obviously something that is not existing. And when you have this, it is actually a model in a way. And to find something that is. I looked into different instruments that look similar. There's one guitar that I think is called the Stick, which is an electronic guitar that you tap and you play it. You know, it's quite. Not a common, but an instrument that is not so rare. So I looked at that one and. And I checked out how you can play with several strings. So obviously there was. For the shooting, they had a kind of instrument trainer for the actor, and they needed a ballet set piece from my side, create this baliset piece for the palace when they have the party there.

[Amidal Yuckber]

That's an episode one, right?

[Volker Bertelman]

Yes, it's in episode one. Exactly. And what is interesting is that this theme of the palace set is later, in a way, always the theme of the palace. The. The sound for the Bali set is, in a way, distorted black tarp. And I doubled that with a plucked guitar. So I used a couple of instruments that I doubled on top of each other to make it sound a little bit more full and not like, let's say, like a mandolin or something like that. It felt like this instrument should have grace and it should sound big when somebody plays it. It's also. I mean, it goes in the same direction as what we talked about in the beginning. You don't want to have the instruments looking too sci fi, in a way. It also needs to be connected with the humans.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Yes. So one of the other things we should talk about is some of the musical themes. Meaning as a composer, you have to take us to different places, planets. We go to lots of different places. We have Lankavel, which is the Harkonnen planet. And we've talked a lot about how depressing that palace is. Let's talk about that music. Could we listen to that a little bit actually, as well?

[Volker Bertelman]

Yeah. Yeah, please. What I liked about it, it was a little bit like a pre industrial or, you know, the beginning of the industrial age kind of scene where you felt like machines are involved to, you know, to make these huge animals, to cut them. And a lot of red, like, blood on the. On the snow. And then, you know, she buys some, you know, whale butcher, I guess, some. Some whale movies. So what was there before was, in a way, the melody. Like, you know, this melody that comes. That was, for me, just like a kind of yearning melody that was singing of a. That was dreaming of another planet in a way. Or with a singing of another time in a way. You know, you feel like the heaviness of it.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Absolutely. Well, I have a very. I have a. Let's say, a nagging question that I've had in the back of my head, which is a little silly, but if I'm going to the Space Club and I want to listen to the most popular song at the Dune Club, what is it called? Who's the Artist? And why is everyone wanting to listen to it right now? What do you think?

[Volker Bertelman]

You mean the one that. Is that we hear, the very first one in the club? Is that the one who.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Who. You know, it's. It's popular. It's got to be a banger, right? Like some. It's. Do we have a name for it?

[Volker Bertelman]

Well, it's actually, I. I wrote. I wrote it.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Yeah. It's. It's. It's. It's you, of course. Volker. It's Volker.

[Greta Johnson]

Yeah.

[Volker Bertelman]

It's me. It's me. It's actually my. From my technical. Yeah. I had the feeling. I had the feeling that it maybe should have a little bit of a Kraftwerk approach.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Okay. Nice. Yeah. Hopefully Kraftwerk vibe, I guess. I mean, like, do you think it's like a band of people making it in the Dune universe? Do you think it's like a. Like, who's making the music? Why do you think, like, do we have a sense of that?

[Volker Bertelman]

I don't know. I have the feeling that it's maybe. Well, it sounds a little bit like that a machine is taking parts out of the technology in a way, like an AI or creating. It's a subculture.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Right. It's gotta be. These are the things that are kind of pushing the barrier. So it makes sense that.

[Volker Bertelman]

Exactly. But I think in Dune, it feels a little bit more. I have the feeling that this is maybe coming from a robot.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Yeah, I feel like you'd be in the club like this sounds like a thinking machine made in. Is this okay for us to listen to you? Like they're yelling in the club, like, you know, is this okay?

[Volker Bertelman]

Exactly.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Well, thank you so much for joining us, Volker.

[Volker Bertelman]

Thank you, Ahmed, for having me.

[Greta Johnson]

That's all for this week. We will be back next Sunday night with more special guests to break down the sixth and final episode of Dune Prophecy. It is the season finale. You are not gonna wanna miss this one. You can watch on HBO or stream exclusively on max.

[Amidal Yuckber]

And if you like what you're hearing, don't forget to leave a rating and review on your podcast player of choice and find us on the Dune Prophecy social media handles.

[Greta Johnson]

The official Dune Prophecy podcast is produced by HBO in collaboration with Pineapple Street Studios. I'm Greta Johnson and you can find me on socials.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Gretamjohnsen And I'm Emma Dali Akbar. You can find me at radbrowndads. Our executive producers for Pineapple street are Gabrielle Lewis, Jayanne Berry and Bari Finkel. Our lead engineer for the show is Hannis Brown. Pineapple's head of sound and engineering is Raj Ma. Pineapple's senior audio engineers are Marina Pais and Pedro Olvera. This episode is mixed by Hannis Brown.

[Greta Johnson]

This episode was edited by Darby Meloni. And our producers are Ben Goldberg and Melissa Akiko Slaughter.

[Amidal Yuckber]

Special thanks to Becky Rowe, Allison Cohen and Erin Kelly from the MAX podcast team. Thanks for listening. See you next week.

[Volker Bertelman]

Goodbye to us.

[Allison Schapker]

Everyone has secrets Atreides.